Return to Transcripts main page

CNN NEWSROOM

Message on Ebola; Quarantine in Maine; Rocket Explosion Destroys Projects

Aired October 29, 2014 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf Blitzer, thank you so much.

Great to be with all of you. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Let's get started with something we're watching very closely for at the White House. We know this afternoon, President Obama will do and what many in America are afraid to do right now, just stand side by side with health workers back from caring for patients -- Ebola patients. The president is scheduled to meet with a group of them who have returned from the hot zone in West African countries or who are about to go or who are just very familiar with this kind of virus. The president will be making a statement. Obviously, we'll take that live for you right here on CNN next hour.

But the president did just speak against automatic quarantines for workers without any kind of symptoms, reactions, he says, based upon, quote, "fear." And yet today, his secretary of defense ordered this mandatory quarantine for all U.S. troops returning from the Ebola affected nations. They are men and women who are going nowhere near the sick. The policy will be reviewed in 45 days.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHUCK HAGEL, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: This is also a policy that was discussed in great detail by the communities, by the families of our military men and women. And they very much wanted a safety valve on this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: There's definitely more nuance in that part of the story though. We'll be talking to our Pentagon correspondent for that in just a little bit.

But joining me on the phone, we have Dr. Amesh Adalja of the Infectious Disease Society of America.

Mr. Adalja, I know you are working on getting into the White House right now to meet with the president. So let me just begin with, we heard from the president yesterday and he was saying, you know, in addition to thanking a lot of the doctors today, he wants your input. So my number one question for you, sir, is, what is your number one piece of advice or concern you plan to share with the president? DR. AMESH ADALJA, INFECTIOUS DISEASE SOCIETY OF AMERICA (via

telephone): Really what I think we need to do is really tampen down this panic that's spread across the United States because there is no threat of a generalized outbreak of Ebola in the population here. And a lot of this panic is distracting to public health officials and diverting resources from the things we need to do, like continue to screen for infected travelers that may present at our emergency departments, to get resources to West Africa and to just - and stop some of the - some of these crazy types of things that are happening with schools being closed and people shunning other people and a lot of the stigmatization that's going on. I think that's really what we need to do in the United States.

BALDWIN: I couldn't agree with you more. I had a family on yesterday, two little boys from Senegal, and the dad was saying to me that kids at school were yelling Ebola at the kids. You know, they don't know if they want to go back to school. I'm going to a Liberian community tonight to have dinner with people to talk specifically about this stigma. But how do you, doctor, propose, you know, top brass, like the president of the United States, help counter the stigma? What does he need to say to Americans?

ADALJA: I think he's done some good things so far. For example, when he met with the survivors, when he hugged the survivors, that shows that you can actually, you know, not contract Ebola from somebody who has - we has just recovered from Ebola, and the fact that he's meeting with doctors that have just come back from West Africa, all of that helps with the public messaging. And almost similar to what you saw with during the early HIV pandemic when you saw celebrities meeting with HIV patients to show that it's not transmitted through casual contact. I think that's one more thing we can do. And the other thing is, if they actually speak frankly and honestly about what we know, what we don't know, what we're learning about this virus as we go and be as transparent as possible, all of that helps reassure the public.

BALDWIN: You know, I think part of the - the lack of reassurances, and we've talked about this the last - the last 24 hours here, is just about the mixed messaging, right, the patchwork of policies. I talked to two very top doctors yesterday and it's this - you know, it's obviously the CDC can only recommend guidelines and you have what's coming from the federal government. You have state by state by state. You have what's happening with the military now hearing today that members of the military, upon returning from West Africa, you know, will be forced into this self-quarantine. So can you understand the confusion?

ADALJA: Definitely. It's legitimate for the general public to be bewildered by all these different state rules and now the Department of Defense rules. And it's really a function of the way our public health system works here, that CDC is a federal agency that can issue recommendations, but the power lies with the state and even the local municipalities to enforce their own ordinances and they may all be -- they may conflict and they may not be consistent and that becomes very hard to do. And that's what you're seeing here with New York, New Jersey, Illinois, other states doing it one way and then Pennsylvania, for example, my home state, doing it another way. And that makes it very hard for the general public to figure this out because they expect CDC guidance to be followed or why isn't it being followed. It raises a lot of questions.

But it's important to know that what - well, the science about this virus hasn't changed. We know how to stop it. We know how it spreads. And it's just that a lot of states are feeling pressure because of this generalized panic to go above and beyond what's needed and that actually feeds the panic more. So it's kind of a vicious circle that's starting to - vicious cycle that's starting to develop.

BALDWIN: Right. Final question, I know you're minutes from this meeting with the president, among other doctors. You talk about addressing the panic. But beyond that, Dr. Adalja, what do you want to hear the president say?

ADALJA: I want to hear the president say that this is a controllable disease. We know who to stop it. We've stopped it 24 times before. That there's not going to be a generalized outbreak in the United States. That hospitals need to be prepared, though, for travelers and that we shouldn't go overboard and -- with these blanket quarantine orders that are going to really restrict people's liberty without any science to back - back it up (ph).

BALDWIN: All right, Dr. Amesh Adalja, thank you so much, minutes away from stepping into that closed-door meeting with the president and other doctors very familiar with this disease that is Ebola. And we'll be hearing from the president a little later next hour and we'll take that for you live here on CNN.

Meantime, staying on topic, you know all about this nurse here, the nurse in Maine, Kaci Hickox. She is one of those who fought on the front lines of the Ebola outbreak in Sierra Leone working with the wonderful organization that is Doctors Without Borders. So now Hickox is taking on a whole different Ebola fight in her home state of Maine.

This is her home, right here, Fort Kent, Maine. Hickox, who is well, has no symptoms, says she will not obey a state-ordered quarantine for her to stay home for that incubation period of 21 days. Now all of this comes after she was forced under quarantine in another state of New Jersey. You remember that made news just 48 hours ago. That's where she flew in to Friday after her time helping Ebola victims, was forced to stay in this tent. She said she initially had that higher fever, said she was flushed, says she is a-OK.

Let me bring in CNN's Poppy Harlow, because she's been following this all week long for us.

And the issue, I guess, with Kaci here is, she says she may have to fight this in Maine.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And she absolutely will.

BALDWIN: Yes.

HARLOW: I mean, so she gets out of quarantine in New Jersey. Then there are state police, Brooke, right outside of that house you just showed. They're monitoring her, but she's voluntarily in the house. But if she leaves and they try to prevent her from doing that, she's going to take it up with the courts in Maine. I mean she thinks this is abhorrent, you know, that's what she's been saying. She spoke out today on the "Today" show talking about it, even though the authorities in Maine say if you don't abide by this quarantine, we are going to pursue legal authority. I want you to listen first to what she said about that and then we'll discuss more.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KACI HICKOX, NURSE QUARANTINED AFTER TREATING EBOLA PATIENTS: I don't plan on sticking to the guidelines. I remain appalled by these home quarantine policies that have been forced upon me, even though I am in perfectly good health and feeling strong and have been this entire time completely symptom-free. I truly believe that this policy is not scientifically nor constitutionally just and so I am not going to sit around and be bullied by politicians and forced to stay in my home when I am not a risk to the American public.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: She says, I am not a risk to the American public. But, Brooke, she said, I understand the fear, but we have to base what we do, what we enforce on evidence. So Matt Lauer on the "Today" show said, all right, what's reasonable? And she said self-monitoring is reasonable. Keeping me in my home is not reasonable because I'm not symptomatic. But again, she and her lawyers say, if this quarantine is not lifted, if she's prevented from leaving her house by Thursday morning, then she's going to go through the court system and sue.

BALDWIN: So this is fast moving. So we saw Kaci Hickox on the "Today" show this morning. Now you have the governor of Maine saying what?

HARLOW: Yes. The governor of Maine is speaking out, began this statement, interestingly not naming Kaci Hickox, saying "a health care work who was in this exact situation" -

BALDWIN: And we all know who she is.

HARLOW: Commending for her work, but then saying, let's pull it up on the screen, it's important to see. He said, "we are very concerned about her safety and health and that of the community. We are exploring all of our options for protecting the health and wellbeing of the health care worker, anyone who comes into contact with her, the Fort Kent community and all of Maine. While ewe certainly respect the rights of the individual, we must be vigilant in protecting 1.3 million Mainers, as well as anyone who visits our great state."

Read through the lines, he is saying, abide by this or we're going to take every legal authority and action we have. As I said, the police are outside of her house right now. Governor Christie, as you well know, was asked about this, because he could be sued. And he said, get in line. He actually said, whatever, get in line. I've been sued many times. So there's not a lot of case law. I know you've going to be discussing this.

BALDWIN: We will.

HARLOW: There's not a lot of case law here. Where's the precedent for this? But, you know, her lawyer is saying, you cannot base it on myth and fear.

BALDWIN: Sounds like, though, in talking to lawyers and, yes, we will have an entire segment on the legalities of this, states have a lot of power. They have a lot of power.

HARLOW: They have a lot - they have a lot of power. And, you know, you have that live shot on her house. What's going to happen? She says she's going to leave.

BALDWIN: Oh. Poppy Harlow, thank you very much.

HARLOW: You got it.

BALDWIN: We'll stay on that one for you, I promise.

And also, as we discussed, right, so this nurse, she is not going to self-quarantine. Beyond the legalities, what about the ethics of this? We're going to put that question to our very own chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta. He'll join the conversation next.

Also ahead, that NBC cameraman diagnosed with Ebola, then cured, he sat down with my colleague, Don Lemon. What he said in that interview in just a couple of minutes. It's pretty compelling. I mean for the first time we're really hearing what it's like in the throes of true sickness.

And later, did you hear about this? I'm sure you have. Just absolutely stunning video of this rocket exploding just yesterday. Some of the cargo inside that's gone, science projects from kids across the country. And so we will talk to a couple sixth graders and get their reaction to their science projects going up in smoke. Stay with me.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You are watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

And, you know, I was just talking to Poppy Harlow about this nurse that was initially under mandatory quarantine in that tent outside of Newark Airport just a couple of days ago after she'd come back from her very brave work, Doctors Without Borders, in Africa. Here are pictures of her, Kaci Hickox. She has since gone home to Maine. And as Poppy was just reporting, there are now state troopers stationed outside of her home because, according to law, and according to what we just heard and saw in the statement from the governor today, she cannot leave her home until after this 21-day incubation period is over.

The thing is, and she has talked to lawyers, she has lawyers and she says, no. She says, according to CDC guidelines, I'm going to self- monitor. I know exactly what I'm doing. And if I want to leave my home, I should be able to leave my home. Let me go to our chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, who I

really would love to hear from on this whole thing here. It looks like you're at the White House obviously for this meeting with the doctors. There you go. So just posing the question to you, as a medical professional, you have been in these Ebola zones in Africa, would you stay in that home, Sanjay?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, the science -- first of all, you know, you hate that this has become so political, obviously, and there's going to be a lot of attention on that home.

BALDWIN: Yes.

GUPTA: I mean we've got pictures of her home now. If she leaves her home, it's going to make a lot of news, it's going to upset people and people are going to be scared. But I have to say that, you know, based on science, which is, you know, a good thing to base something on, frankly, she is - she is in the right here. She works for an organization, the Doctors Without Borders, who have been doing this kind of work for a long time and they have real specific guidelines, Brooke, you know, and I read through these guidelines in detail, talked to them about this. They say quarantine is neither recommended nor warranted for someone who is not sick or showing symptoms of Ebola. And she is not.

So it -- really, she is within her right as far her organization goes. I've looked at the CDC guidelines, parsed those down. And if you look at her particular situation, they also would not say that she has to be quarantined. They would say she needs to be self-monitored. So it's - you know, she has two organizations that are telling her this that are both scientific based organizations and it sounds like she's doing exactly that. But you've got this collision, Brooke, as you and I have talked about, between science and social fear. And that's real and it's happening.

BALDWIN: Yes. I was just talking about the fear with a doctor who will be sitting in on that meeting in which you'll be joining in a matter of minutes, Sanjay. So let's talk about that meeting. We saw the president yesterday addressing this from the South Lawn. What kind of input, Sanjay Gupta, do you plan on imparting to the president of the United States?

GUPTA: I don't know if he's going to ask me to give any input, but -

BALDWIN: I think he might.

GUPTA: But, you know, it's going to be an interesting meeting for a couple of reason. As much as what you hear as what you see, right? So on one hand, Brooke, you're having these conversations about people coming back from West Africa, health care workers, going into mandatory quarantine. On the other hand, you have people returning back from West Africa, health care workers, who are going to be sitting in the White House with the president of the United States. So just the optics of that alone, I think, are going to be really important and very historic and something that people will talk about for a long time. I also, you know, expect him to, you know, offer some comfort in terms of the social fear that we're talking about and sort of emphasize the science that the CDC, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, has put forth.

Now, it's a tight rope walk for him because the Department of Defense, specifically the Army, has got different sort of policies and recommendations that they're employing for their own troops. It's going to be different than what the CDC is saying and he's the president of the United States. So it's going to be interesting to see what he says about that.

BALDWIN: And, listen, I asked that question because he said it yesterday, that he plans to thank all of these doctors for all their wonderful work and also plans on getting your advice, Sanjay Gupta.

GUPTA: All right.

BALDWIN: So if you impart advice to the president, you better get back in front of that camera and share that with me, deal?

GUPTA: I'll study up. All right, you got it. No problem.

BALDWIN: All right, Dr. Gupta, thank you very much, at the White House for me on this Wednesday afternoon.

GUPTA: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Coming up, the NBC cameraman, now Ebola-free, he sat down with Don Lemon. Hear what he thinks about these mandatory quarantines for health care workers coming back to the United States.

Also ahead, stunning video of this unmanned rocket on its way to provide supplies to the International Space Station, among other items, exploding here. What else inside this rocket? A bunch of science projects from students across the country. Science projects including six sixth graders who we'll be talking to.

Hi, guys.

KIDS: Hi (INAUDIBLE).

BALDWIN: We'll talk to them in just a matter of minutes. Stay with me.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: When a rocket exploded over Virginia, a bunch of middle school students knew their homework on board went up in flames.

(VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Oh, I know, it's tough to look at, especially for these four students at this New Jersey middle school. They designed this very special science project. Look at those smiling faces. I love this story. They beat out more than 1,400 other student projects for this chance to see their work go into space, go to the International Space Station on that very rocket. They waited for months and months for this rocket carrying this dream project to finally reach the launch pad. And six seconds after takeoff, well, you see what I see.

So thankfully no one was injured. This was unmanned. But some very young scientists are struggling to make sense of some of this and hopefully already work on the next project. So joining me from Long Branch Middle School in New Jersey, we have sixth graders there. Front row, we have Zachary and Ronny and Jonathan and Michael, along with their science supervisor, Jenna Valdiviezo.

Guys, thumbs up. Excellent job on being selected and I am so sorry about this rocket.

Let me just ask Ronnie, let me ask you first, how did you - how did you find out the rocket blew up?

RONNIE GIBSON, SIXTH-GRADE STUDENT, LONG BRANCH MIDDLE SCHOOL: Well, I found out actually today because I actually initially forgot to watch it on nasa.gov. But I found out today because my teacher, she actually showed me the video after these three fine friends here told me about it. So I asked her if she could find it and then Jonathan's cousin told her to look for it on space.gov - I mean space.com. And then she showed it to the whole class and I was actually a little bit surprised about what the rocket looked like and how everything went. But, yes, that's how I found out. I just found out today.

BALDWIN: So, Michael, kind of a bummer or what?

JONATHAN ROCHA, SIXTH-GRADE STUDENT, LONG BRANCH MIDDLE SCHOOL: Well, you know, for me - just me personally, it is kind of a bummer but, you know, it's not every day you get to see a rocket ship explode. So I don't really know how I feel about this (ph). I'm kind of 50/50 on the whole subject.

BALDWIN: I mean it's kind of a bummer for the space program but it is cool pictures. I'm with you there, Michael.

Let me ask you this. So, Zachary, my next question is, I am so impressed with your smarts. I mean I wanted to be an astronaut myself and that all went south once I finally took physics. But, Zachary, I want you to explain what the project was. I understand it was hydroponics and microgravity. Can you explain that, please?

ZACHARY FITZGERALD, SIXTH-GRADE STUDENT, LONG BRANCH MIDDLE SCHOOL: Hydroponics are plants that only grow in chemical (ph) water, without soil, and microgravity is no gravity, just no gravity at all. And we want to see if hydroponics actually can germinate and grow in microgravity.

BALDWIN: You said germinate. You get an extra gold star.

Jonathan, I'm coming to you, but, Jenna, science director of this entire district, I mean, how big of a deal was it for you all to be selected, to have this project on board this rocket?

JENNA VALDIVIEZO, SCIENCE SUPERVISOR, LONG BRANCH PUBLIC SCHOOL DISTRICT: It was very exciting. It was a year-long process that Long Branch took experiments and we decided as a district and a team (ph), you know, what the top 100 experiments were and then getting down to the top one experiment and then sending that to possibly be chosen by the SEAT (ph) program, that alone was a long process. And then to be selected by the SEAT (ph) program to have the experiment at the International Space Station was very exciting.

BALDWIN: It's incredible.

Jonathan, are you all putting your heads together and hoping to come up with another project for hopefully another rocket opportunity?

JONATHAN ROCHA, SIXTH-GRADE STUDENT, LONG BEACH MIDDLE SCHOOL: Well, our idea was that we were going to send a similar experiment back pretty much with the same idea of hydroponics versus microgravity, except for the fact that it will be in a later time and that we might be able to change things in this time period that we have until the rocket launches.

BALDWIN: Change things. Maybe this gives you guys a chance to improve upon things, although I'm sure it was pretty impressive in and of itself. Listen, guys, I've been to space camp twice. I may be able to pull some strings because it sounds like you four are pretty impressive. And you - you know, some people say, the dog ate my homework and you guys get to say, well, a rocket exploded on my science project. So there you go.

Jenna, thank you so much. Zachary, Ronnie, Jonathan, Michael, Good luck. Keep us posted on the next project in rocket number two, OK?

KIDS: OK.

BALDWIN: Bye.

KIDS: Bye.

BALDWIN: Incredible. Incredible.

Coming up, something else pretty incredible and pretty unfortunate for, though, a lot of people in Hawaii. This river of lava threatening to swallow dozens of homes in this small Hawaiian community. We'll talk to a woman who has lived there for more than 30 years. That lava bearing down on her home.

And next, my colleague, Don Lemon, sat down with that NBC cameraman who was diagnosed and now can say he is Ebola-free. He talks about the moments when he thought he would not make it through it alive. Don will join me for that, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)