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CNN NEWSROOM

Freshman Jaylen Fryberg Opens Fire in Marysville High School Cafeteria; Dr. Craig Spencer Being Treated for Ebola in New York; So- Called Lone Wolf Terrorists Biggest Threat to Homeland Security; Virginia Authorities Confirmed Human Remains Found Last Weekend Were Those of Missing University of Virginia Student Hannah Graham

Aired October 25, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANA CABRERA, CNN HOST: You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Ana Cabrera. Thank you for joining me.

A homecoming prince opens fire in a high school cafeteria. His targets were not random. Freshman Jaylen Fryberg reportedly shot two of his own cousins. He also shot two 14-year-old girls, both in the head. The mystery of a motive still un-solve. But classmate say Fryberg was a popular football player. In fact just a week ago, he was elected homecoming prince for his freshman class.

Days ago, Fryberg was smiling and dancing at football practice, we are told. What lurked underneath that sunny demeanor? Did Fryberg signal his apparent rage in tweets leading up to Friday's rampage? We'll read you disturbing new messages.

And finally, we're learning more about the victims fighting to stay alive. A doctor told CNN things are very touch and go right now for the two injured girls.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. JOANNE ROBERTS, CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER, PROVIDENCE REGIONAL MEDICAL CENTER: We've seen tears, we have seen anger, they are just grieving. Right now, I think they are just settled in. Things are quiet. They know the circumstances. They're hoping for the best. But the next three days are going to be crucial. These young people are being monitored moment by moment. They have a nurse at their bedside constantly. A doctor is very nearby constantly. All the neurosurgeons have rounded this morning and will be rounding throughout the day, but this will be a process that takes, we won't know a lot more for the next two or three days.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: And healing, of course, is going to take weeks, not years. We are covering every angle of this deadly school shooting for you.

Let's begin with CNN's national correspondent, Susan Candiotti, tracking the story just outside the hospital in Everett, Washington, which is north of Seattle, where those two 14-year-old girls are fighting to stay alive.

Susan, what are you hearing on the ground there?

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Ana. What a sad situation here for this community as we hear about yet another fatal school shooting happening.

At this hour, I can tell you that police say that they are still gathering details, trying to find out exactly what happened at that high school. In fact, they were working late into the night on Friday picking up evidence at the scene and interviewing witnesses.

We also understand that later this day, we can expect more information from the medical examiner's office, very likely with more details about the cause of death of the shooter and as he turned the gun on himself and also, when he killed one of the students at sitting at that table.

Remember, everyone is describing that he seemed to know who he was targeting when he walked up and shot them all from behind before turning the gun on himself. And what's particularly sad about this as we speak to the doctors here at this hospital and the other one as well, is how all of this has had a personal impact on them, too. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTS: I'm drained and it's hard for me to even start thinking about this without thinking about my own children. They're out of high school. But I talked to one of my daughters last night and we talked through what would it have been like if this happened at her high school? We were both crying.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CANDIOTTI: Again, the motive is very unclear at this time, Ana. Some people are saying did it have anything to do with a break up he recently -- reportedly had according to some friends and classmates at school or might it have had something to do with a recent suspension. He had just come back to school after being thrown out following a fight at football practice. That's what students are telling us when he was allegedly bullied -- Ana.

CABRERA: These some new information. Thank you, Susan Candiotti there in Everett, Washington for us.

We also know Jaylen Fryberg recently endured teenage heartbreak. Did anyone miss possible signs that his troubles ran much deeper? Did he reveal his apparent range in the days or even months leading up to his deadly attack?

Joining me to discuss this is clinical psychologist Jeff Gardere, also Frank DeAngelis, the former principal of Columbine high school.

And I know, Frank, you were there when that tragedy happened. Let's start with you. You experienced the horror of this deadly shooting when you were principal at columbine. Based on the lessons you learned there, what can or should school leaders in Marysville right now be doing now to help kick start healing?

FRANK DEANGELIS, FORMER PRINCIPAL, COLUMBINE HIGH SCHOOL: Well, the thing that's most difficult is people are in different places. I'm sure they're definitely still in shock. There is people grieving. There's people that are angry and just providing the support that the people need. And what I learned in, you know, I've used this comment ever since, that if I made 70 percent happy on any particular day or met the needs of 70 percent, that it was a successful day. But there's a lot of support. Unfortunately, this school now becomes part of a club that no one wants to be a member.

CABRERA: Absolutely. I think one thing that is so hard at a time like this is trying to understand why it happened. Trying to make sense of how this school could end up in such a tragic situation.

So, Jeff, let's focus a little bit on the possible motive. Some tweets that Jaylen Fryberg apparently put out there in days right before this. I'm going to read a couple of his tweets he sent just this week.

On Tuesday, we know he wrote this. He said it breaks me, it actually does. I know it seems like I'm sweating it off, but I'm not and I never will be able to.

And then in Fryberg's final tweet, this was on Thursday, he says quote, "it won't last. It will never last."

Jeff, what do you make of those?

JEFF GARDERE, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, it lets us know we don't know the specifics of what the tweets are bringing forth as far as the message, but what's underneath that massage, we see heartbreak. We see someone who says, I'm never going to get over this. I'm never going to be better. And we see the person is saying I don't think I'm going to live much longer. Whatever the situation is, it's not going to last and we're not talking about a positive resolution, we can see that.

So I see someone who is severely depressed. And I think part of what went on with Fryberg being so popular, the homecoming prince, the athlete and so on, this is a person perhaps on the outside who lived the life of perfection. So, when things started falling apart, if in fact he was picked on by someone else, we talked about that fight. If it was a situation of where his girlfriend, he felt was taken from him, all of those things begin to crash that outside persona and what's really inside that fragile personality, that scared child, that very depressed person now all of that rage brings that all out and perhaps to some sort of a break, an emotional break, a psychotic break.

They said when he was firing the gun, his face was like stone. So, something happened at that point where he just went into automatic mode, a feud state almost.

CABRERA: So often I tell myself and others like fake it until you make it. You know, when you're going through those hard times, but I guess to some degree, that could faking until you make it could also be harming you as an individual.

GARDERE: Absolutely. And a lot of people can fake it until they make it or they try to struggle, they try to hang on, but we're not all created the same and there are those even though they appear to be super strong and popular, underneath, there's a very, very fragile personality. That can easily be broken in time.

CABRERA: I want to read a couple more tweets from Fryberg in recent months just to get a bigger picture of what was going on here. This is a tweet in August. He says "you're going to piss me off and then some expletive, going to go down and I don't think you'll like it." And then also in late June, he wrote, might as well die now.

So, let's start with you Frank and then Jeff. You listen to these tweets or see these messages that he writes about possibly dying. Frank, what is the appropriate reaction here?

DEANGELIS: Well, you know, I think at Columbine, usually when these kids are carrying out these acts, they are broadcasting it. There are some warning signs. In the case of the two at columbine, they started planning the attack about a year prior to them actually carrying out their plan and they were, they videotaped it and they became known as these basement tapes. And basically what happens is that a cry out for help.

And what we have learned from columbine high school now, and I think it was a wake-up call for our nation if there are warning signs, if teachers are seeing things that have been written, if students are seeing things posted on facebook or other social networking places, do we empower those kids to go forward. Someone had to see those tweets. What action could we take? Could we have gotten help for this kid that was basically crying out for help that he had made a decision that his life was in shambles. What's the next step forward? And I think we can't underestimate getting the help these kids need.

CABRERA: And Jeff, I want to ask you about these red flags, but we've got to take a quick break, so stay tuned. And that we have you first on when we come back. Stay with me.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: And where there any signs, warning signs in this particular case? We have read a couple of tweets from the killer in this case before the break. And I want to get your reaction psychologist Jeff Gardere who is here with me, as well as principal -- former principal that is at Columbine high school who is there during the tragedy that happened about 15 years ago there in Littleton, Colorado.

Jeff to you, we talked about the tweets and perhaps red flags in hindsight.

GARDERE: That's right.

CABRERA: What do you think about those is this should somebody have done something after seeing those is this. GARDERE: You would think after what happened in columbine and, of

course, Frank talked about this, these are red flags and we have to learn from all the school shootings, but the people who are seeing the tweets perhaps were not adults. They may have been other youngsters, other friends, of course, of this individual who didn't believe he might be capable of this because there was no history of this kind of violence. And so, what we see with youngsters, it's all about the drama, drama, hormones a flowing, a breakup of a relationship.

CABRERA: Especially at that age when you're 14 years old in high school.

GARDERE: Exactly. You have got possible bullying. Who knows what's going on? And so, other kids and sometimes, parents, become desensitized to what should be clear red flags. If anyone says I'm going to hurt someone or I don't want to live anymore or they're expressing any kind of range, that's the red flag. Go with it and get that person some kind of intervention.

CABRERA: When it's out of character?

GARDERE: Absolutely.

CABRERA: Especially when they talk about harming?

GARDERE: This was a young person who is crying out for help. That we saw clear suicidal, homicidal ideation and therefore it's 2020 hindsight, but we have to step in. We have to learn from mistakes.

CABRERA: It's such a tough conversation to have because nobody wants to, you know, talk about what could have been done. You don't want to blame anybody, which we're not doing.

But I think, Frank, what's important here is that we learn from this situation and maybe can move forward with some knowledge of how to prevent it perhaps in the future. I know there in Colorado since Columbine high school, one of the lessons learned was, you know, being able to report perceives threats. And Colorado has since implemented a special threat reporting system there. Talk a little bit about how and effective you feel that's been.

DEANGELIS: Right. And I'm on the board. It's called safe detail and it's a 24/7 hotline, anonymous tip line. And it's been very effective. The number of reports that have come in and that have warrant that something could have happened. And what we're doing is empowering kids a system to report, that if they see something posted on facebook, if they do see a kid that is holding up a weapon on facebook, that they can report.

Last year, I probably had seven or eight tips from students concerned about their friends hurting themselves. And fortunately, they did report it or I would have had to attend another seven or eight memorial services because these kids had every intent of taking their own lives.

So, what you have to do is put systems into place and that's what Jeff is saying. A lot of time, you have these young kids, they don't know what to do. And they're stating while that's just so and so shooting his mouth off, but we try tell our kids you need to air on the side of caution.

I think everyone looks at it and thinking it can't happen at our school. I once said the same the same thing at Columbine. It can happen anywhere. We saw what happened at Sandy Hook. Here is an elementary school in this little -- in this community where everything seemed to be perfect. We're all vulnerable and we all have to step up as part of society and say enough is enough.

CABRERA: Jeff, final thoughts, is there a desensitization to violence in our society? Is that part of the problem?

GARDERE: Yes and we tend to see a lot of these messages on the internet and see a lot of the pictures being posted of youngsters with guns and learning to use guns. I'm not going to talk about the gun issue here, but we know it's a deadly mix with mental health issues.

Bottom line is, Ana, and Frank, the bottom line is if our children do not get an intervention or if they're depressed or experienced any other mental health issue, it doesn't just go away by itself. They have to get intervention. It's not just about the resiliency of being young. They are in pain. Get them help.

CABRERA: All right, we'll have to end the conversation there, an important discussion.

Again, psychologist Jeff Gardere and principal Frank DeAngelis from Columbine high, thank you to you both for joining me.

Coming up, the latest on a doctor fighting for his life in New York after being diagnosed with Ebola, we will take you live to the hospital with an update, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: Now to the latest on Ebola. A new video into CNN, a ceremony today in Liberia, this is the 101st army airborne division assuming its role as the lead unit there and the U.S. military mission to battle the disease in West Africa. They're building hospital treatment centers to have more resources for the folks who are suffering there.

But here at home, the good news for health care worker who was quarantined in New Jersey who tested negative now in a preliminary test for the virus. We know she was isolated yesterday just as some new guidelines were issued by New York and New Jersey officials ordering a 21-day mandatory quarantine for health care workers in their states who have returned from Ebola hot zones in West Africa.

Joining me now to discuss the latest in the Ebola stories, CNN senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen, as well as an infectious disease specialist Celine Gounder.

Elizabeth, I want to start with you and the situation on the ground in New York. What's the condition of the doctor, Dr. Craig Spencer, who we know is the doctor now being treated for Ebola in New York?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Ana, we're told that Dr. Spencer is in stable condition. That he is able to talk. He's talking to folks on his cell phone. That he is in relatively good shape. It's really a testament to what can happen if you catch Ebola quickly, you can much better chance of treating it successfully.

CABRERA: We heard his good news like you said, that he is in stable condition. We also learned the good news about Nina Pham being released from NIH. She is Ebola free. We know nurse Amber Vinson is also reportedly showing no signs of the virus in her recent tests. So those are some good times, but the fear is still there perhaps because of this new case in New York.

So Dr. Gounder, we know New York and New Jersey are taking further steps to try to combat this virus from possibly spreading more in the U.S. What are your thoughts about what they have implemented, this mandatory quarantine, 21-days for any health care worker who's been treating patients in west Africa?

DR. CELINE GOUNDER, INFECTIOUS DISEASE SPECIALIST: I think this mandatory quarantine serves to perpetuate misbelieves, wrong ideas about how Ebola is transmitted. It is important to remember people cannot transmit Ebola until they have systems and it's really later stage of the disease when they become extremely infectious as was the case with Thomas Eric Duncan.

And when you have a health care worker doing the responsible thing like Dr. Spencer of checking his temperature, monitoring for symptoms and reporting himself to the health authorities immediately upon developing symptoms, the risk to the public is zero at large is zero.

So, you know, I think all this does is serve to discourage health care workers from doing the most important thing to control the outbreak, which is to respond overseas in west Africa.

CABRERA: So, if I'm understanding you correct, you believe that while this may not help the situation in really stopping the virus, it could hurt.

GOUNDER: I think it could definitely hurt. And I've already heard of some colleagues who were thinking about volunteering, I have some colleagues who are in the countries affected right now, who are now scrambling to have coverage at the hospitals they're working because they can't work for another three weeks from the time they're away.

CABRERA: Elizabeth, I also want to talk to you real quickly about the vaccine development. We know we might be a little bit closer to an Ebola vaccine. What are the logistical and the production hurdles at this point?

COHEN: Right. Before you put a vaccine on the market, Ana, you want to make sure that you're really helping people and you're not actually hurting people. And so, there are, you know, very specific steps that you have to go through in order to test it. This is not done quickly. Now, certainly, they will fast track this because it's Ebola, but still you want to do this right. You don't want to be too hasty.

CABRERA: All right, Elizabeth Cohen and Dr. Celine Gounder, thank you both for joining me.

Intelligence experts say some 1,000 westerners have left their homes to fight in Iraq and Syria. More than 100 of them are Americans. What's being done to prevent attacks from lone Wolf terrorists? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: A violent hatchet wielding attack on New York City police officers. Plus, a deadly shooting outside Canada's parliament both aimed at people many uniform, inspired by terrorism and both raising new concerns about extremists motivated by radical Islam, either leading their homes to fight under the black flag of ISIS or carrying out these attacks on their home soil.

CNN's Amy La Porte has a closer look at this threat to the west.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMY LA PORTE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With each bomb that falls in the U.S. air strikes against ISIS in Iraq and Syria, the threat of extremist recruits and lone wolf terrorists hits closer to home.

CHUCK HAGEL, DEFENSE SECRETARY: ISIL clearly poses an immediate threat. We also know that thousands of foreign fighters including Europeans in more than 100 Americans have traveled to Syria. These fighters can exploit ISIL safe haven to plan, coordinate and carry out attacks against the United States and Europe.

LA PORTE: Threats followed by action.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The fighting has just begun.

LA PORTE: In September, this video surfaces showing an ISIS militant presiding over the execution of Syrians speaking with what sounds like an American accent. Ten days later at a factory in Oklahoma, Alton Nolen, walks into his former place of employment and beheads a co- worker. Now facing the death penalty, questions persist about his motivations and whether his act was an act of terrorism.

GREG MASHBURN, CLEVELAND COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: He was using Arabic terms during the attack. And certainly, that's one of the many reasons why the FBI is involved.

LA PORTE: This week, three teenage girls played hooky from their school in Denver, Colorado, stole money and made it halfway to Syria before they were stopped, their plan to join ISIS unraveled by a series of tweets.

REP. DANIEL KAGAN (D), COLORADO STATE: She had been tweeting to her friends and discussing this plan to go to Syria and strike a blow for justice as they saw it. LA PORTE: After opening fire on Canada's parliament, authorities

reveal the gunman, Michael Zehaf-Bibeau, a recent convert to Islam, was trying to get a passport and had connections to jihadists in Canada.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the passport figured prominently in his motives.

LA PORTE: The next day in New York, a man attacks a group of police officers with a hatchet. Authorities call it an agent of terror carried out by a radicalized Muslim convert.

WILLIAM BRATTON, COMMISSIONER, NEW YORK CITY POLICE: He has an extensive social media presence, visiting websites focused on designated terrorist groups, Al-Qaeda, ISIS, al-Shabaab.

LA PORTE: Each new case raising more questions about how much the involvement in a war on terror overseas is creating a new terror threat at home.

Amy La Porte, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CABRERA: Our thanks to Amy for that.

Now, let's bring in our panel to discuss this, Michael Daly, special correspondent to "the Daily Beast" and Bob Baer, CNN national security analyst.

Guys, I think there are two threats here. First, we have the ISIS want to bes or lone wolves who carry out these attacks in the name of radical Islam. And then those ISIS trained militants with passports, who could potentially return and carry out an attack.

So Michael, we will start with you. I think, really, there is a question though that is the same here. And that is, you know, is the fact that ISIS is out there and we're battling them as a country, U.S. and leading other coalition members putting now a target on the backs of Americans and our allies?

MICHAEL DALY, SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT, THE DAILY BEAST: I think the target's there anyway. I mean, the airstrikes might have kind of pushed more to the floor. I think that ISIS attitude has been, all right, we'll straighten out things here, and then go after the great Satan. And I think the airstrikes may have, you know, triggered that move a little early.

But then, you know, we are target anyway. You know, this is a war. And we, in their view, we're the enemy.

CABRERA: I suppose then our reaction shouldn't change because of that.

DALY: No. I think, you know, you can't, you know, that would be a victory for them. I mean, I think whenever you're fighting terrorists; you have to not let them terrify you.

CABRERA: I want you guys to both listen to what Matthew Olson, the former director of the national counterterrorism center told CNN's Jim Sciutto this week. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEW OLSON, FORMER DIRECTOR OF THE NATIONAL COUNTERTERRORISM CENTER: I would say the most likely type of attack is one of these home grown violent extremists or, you know, lone offenders in the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: Bob, would you agree that the risk of a lone Wolf attack is greater today with the rise of ISIS?

ROBERT BAER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: I think unquestionably. You look at Oklahoma beheading, you look at the two attacks in Canada and attacks on New York City policemen, and I think these people are probably self-recruited and they're almost impossible to locate with social media simply because of what's on the internet.

The FBI can't go out and arrest everybody who's making a threat, so running these people down, deciding who is dangerous is nearly impossible. And we also really don't know what ISIS plans and intentions are to run people into this country and they can do it because they can beat the national security agency. They know better than to get on cell phones. I can't tell you there's an attack on its way, but if one comes, we shouldn't be surprised.

CABRERA: Michael, is this the new MO for these lone Wolf terrorists, so to speak, the fact that, you know, maybe they're not hijacking planes or bombing subway, but they are, you know, hitting one little thing at a time, chipping away?

DALY: I think calling them lone wolves is a disservice to wolves. They're really lone losers. What they are is there are people who, you know, they're looking for some kind of purpose in their lives, and all of a sudden, hey, I can be a murderer. Hey, I'll be with ISIS.

They see these dramatic images online, and all this talk and then all of the sudden they are big guys and go do it. It's different than the hijackers who took down the towers downtown which that was a planned, coordinated effort over a period of time. This is some guy sitting in an apartment in Queens and picks up a hatchet and figures he's going to go do jihad by lacking some poor cop in the head with a hatchet.

CABRERA: Bob, I spent some time in Ottawa this week covering the terrorist attack there by those individuals who shot the soldier, went into the parliament building and open fire and was eventually shot and killed there. And what we kept hearing from people on the ground in Canada is that we can't let this one incident rattle us to the point where it really does, you know, allow the bad guy to win and shakes our way of democracy and freedom and the ideals that make Canada and our western countries the way they are, what we love about them. But what is interesting about these individual attacks, it maybes you

think about what's happening in other parts of the world with the continued suicide bombings we see in background, for example.

BAER: Exactly, Ana. Well, you know, the thing is the explosives, the formula for them, are on the Internet. You can make this stuff in the United States. And as far as Canada goes, let's not forget that 9/11 in a sense started there with the millennial plot where a guy came across the border at Port Angeles with thousands of pounds of explosives and almost got through.

Canada is a vulnerable point for us and I don't think the Canadians are paying attention to it. I mean, the fact that this gunman got inside parliament within feet of the prime minister and they had to hide them in the closet tells you Canadians are not prepared for these acts of terrorism, which if you look at the last 10 days is on the way.

CABRERA: And we did hear the prime minister say well, now we know. This is a wakeup call. We're not immune.

Gentlemen, stay with me. And we know lone Wolf attacks have been happening for years from Oklahoma to Ft. Hood, but why didn't the attackers face terrorism charges? We'll discuss, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: A hatchet wielding man in New York City and then there was the Canadian shooter, are these so-called lone Wolf terrorists the biggest threat to homeland security?

Let's bring back our panel to talk about this, Michael Daly, special correspondent to "the Daily Beast" and Bob Baer, CNN national security analyst.

Bob, we'll start with you this time. Lone Wolf attacks have actually been happening we now know for years. We have Ft. Hood, the Navy yard shooter. The Jewish community center shooting, to name just a few, but none of those we just mentioned were labeled terror acts. Why is that?

BAER: It's a political decision. The attack in Oklahoma, the beheading was not labeled a terrorist act right away even though the FBI knew early on that this man, the murderer, had been (INAUDIBLE) at work, he had been trying to convert his fellow employees. That's why he was fired. That's why he came back and beheaded that woman.

So I think there's a reluctance in Washington to acknowledge reality that we do have a terrorist problem and it is internal. We've got elections coming up. We got 2016. It is really hard for Washington to do, even though the people in the field clearly look at it as terrorism.

CABRERA: So, Bob says it is politics in terms of maybe semantics, not calling this a terror attack. But I mean, what does the administration have to benefit by not calling it a terrorist attack? It would seem to me that you would raise the level of awareness and vigilance by calling it terrorism.

DALY: If you go to Hassan, the Ft. Hood shooter, he had been in contact with a senior Al-Qaeda guy in Yemen and the government afterwards declared it workplace violence. I mean, it's like, you know, the audacity of note, saying that, you know, this isn't terrorism. This is workplace violence. I think that did a great disservice to the soldiers who were murdered and those two very brave police officers who stood up to that guy.

CABRERA: I mean, it's a little bit about messaging is what I'm hearing you say. Bob, when we talk about messaging, it does seems the root of the problem in some ways seems to be ISIS' very effective online propaganda machine. Is there an argument to be made that the U.S. may be perhaps is too focused on the battle on the ground in the Middle East rather than the battle over the internet or the battle of messaging?

BAER: Well, I think what happened is that we indeed defeated Al-Qaeda and in Pakistan and largely in Yemen. And it's a threat that's reseeding, I'm quite sure of this. And we have this new threat from ISIS and they're much more capable. Again, I would go back to their communications. They have internet encryption, which is impossible to break. They're using mobile Wi-Fi. You look at these films of the beheading and the quality is very good, the sound.

It's a new generation in terrorism which may not be as dangerous as Al-Qaeda, but the threat has shifted and it's making much more difficult for the central intelligence agency and FBI to nail it down especially the strength of weak links of these self-recruited people. Sometimes, no communications between them. It's pretty much a nightmare.

CABRERA: What is the U.S. doing, Michael, in terms of you know, your exploration and when it comes to battling is online?

DALY: I don't know how you battle them online. I think they just throw it out there and I don't know what to do about it. You can't shut down the Internet.

CABRERA: Right.

DALY: And they just keep throwing stuff out there. I know that twitter goes and tries to close accounts and they just open another account and another name. And you know, and you get some guy sitting in the park went to police. The guy with the hatchet spent hours and hours who is online, reading comments, looking at this guy. And you know, in the internet, you reach one spot, that is ISIS spot, you know, and ISIS twitter, you can see who the followers are, then next thing you know, you're off into a hold group of bad guys.

CABRERA: Right. I talked to the mother of a woman who is sitting in prison in Colorado, 19-year-old Shannon Conley (ph), and her mother and I were talking about, you know, how she ended up there. She has pleaded guilty to conspiracy to try to help ISIS. And her family said she was simply led astray by someone she met online. So Bob, let me turn this question to you. You know, one of the things

the mom had brought up is the fact that her daughter went seeking information about Islam online and what did she find there, well, all kinds of stuff about ISIS.

What about the response by mainstream Muslims? Why are we not seeing a louder or more prominent anti-ISIS message from Islamic leaders around the world or in the U.S. or are we just missing the message?

BAER: Well, if the problem is, according to the sect, it means they're Sunnis, where you can take guidance where you want whether it is in Qatar, whether it is Saudi Arabia, whether it is somebody in London, and there's no real central authority like the Iranian where there is a sector authority. So you may have a cleric in Yemen pop up and people choose to follow them.

And you know, these (INAUDIBLE) condemned by Muslims, by most Muslims, but there has not really been a turning against these people in the sense that they have crushed ISIS in Syria and Iraq. And that's really what's going to happen is the Muslims there, take up arms and fight this internally.

We alone are not going to do it. But the more we get involved in the Middle East, the more likely there is going to be blow back. I mean, these attacks aren't occurring in Sweden. And we are symbolically and in reality, you know, the force against ISIS and that's why they're going to come after us.

CABRERA: All right, Bob Baer and Michael Daly, we will have to leave it there. Thank you both for joining me and offering your expertise.

Coming up, a nurse forced into quarantine after returning from West Africa is now speaking out. Hear what she says just ahead.

Plus, what makes Africa wild? Anthony Bourdain finds out on this week's "PARTS UNKNOWN: TANZANIA."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY BOURDAIN, CNN HOST, PARTS UNKNOWN: When we talk about Africa, we sadly tend to think of it as a country. It's not a country. Africa is a continent, an incredibly diverse and complicated one. Whatever image we have of Africa tends to be formed by whatever films we've seen.

All of those romantic notions of I want to see magnificent landscapes, incredible animals and extraordinary vistas and magnificent people. The other in all of its diversity and beauty and strangeness, Tanzania's got that. All that stuff you thought you wanted, the most jaw dropping mom moments, it's here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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CABRERA: Virginia authorities late yesterday confirmed that human remains found last weekend do in fact belong to missing University of Virginia student Hannah Graham. Now, searchers found those remains last Saturday on an abandoned property about eight miles from where this 18-year-old sophomore was last seen alive.

Joining us now is criminal defense attorney Joey Jackson, legal analyst for HLN.

Joey, thanks so much. Let's talk about the suspect in this case. We know Jesse Matthew has been charged but only with abduction with intent to defile in the case of Hannah Graham. But now that we have remains identified, do you think we will see more charges come?

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: I really do. And I think one of the significant things about whenever in a criminal case you find the body and, you know, you and I were talking to think and imagine her family, you send your, you know, precious pride and joy off to the University of Virginia, a wonderful institution, so much promise, and this occurred. And things like these to happen. And so the issue then becomes, Ana, how do you get justice, if there is justice, because she's dead?

However, with the finding of the body, you have what's called DNA evidence. We know a lot about it, right? People watch "Forensics," "CSI." And that's significant because what it does it provides a link. And I would suspect, although they are skeletal remains authorities searched not only the body and clothes, anything in the surrounding area and those could be very valuable clues which could link a suspect and if it's Jesse Matthews then certainly would be compelling and damning evidence whoever the DNA that they find at that area and also trails evidence -- hairs, fibers, serology, blood, all of that.

And so, when you find the body, it's a significant development. And I would certainly suspect that based upon that those charges abduction with intent to defile will be upgraded and elevated to murder.

CABRERA: And it is important to note that he has not been charged with murder in this case.

JACKSON: That's right.

CABRERA: But you mentioned DNA evidence.

JACKSON: Yes.

CABRERA: And we know it has been DNA evidence according to investigators that has linked the suspect Jesse Matthew to other missing persons' cases, other sexual assault cases, going back as far as 2005. Now, does this new development make Matthew more or less likely to cooperate with investigators?

JACKSON: You know, whenever a case is put together, Ana, you never want to rely upon cooperation. If it happens, if the suspect cooperates, it's a bonus because now it gives the authorities, you know, more of an indication and it hones them in is it you or is it not. But most people won't confess. And so, we don't know it's him. He is a suspect at this point. So what they try to do is they try to piece it together in the absence of his cooperation. And now we know based on a 2005 incident in Fairfax, the rape unfortunately, he's been indicted and he's been charged in that particular case. And what I would suspect would happen is in the event that he's charged with murder here they'll have the trials separately, but they'll certainly try to admit evidence from one case into another case. Why? It's very prejudicial and it hurts him but it goes to motive, Ana, it goes to intent and it also goes to a common plan and scheme. And that's how investigators and prosecutors will try to get their person they believe it to be him.

CABRERA: Good information. Joey Jackson, thanks so much for joining me. Good to have you.

JACKSON: Always a pleasure. Thank you, Ana.

CABRERA: Two teenage girls fighting for their lives after being gunned down in their high school cafeteria just yesterday. We're live outside the hospital in Washington State with an update on their condition next.

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CABRERA: Welcome back. Each week we shine a spotlight on the top CNN heroes of 2014 for you to vote on the one who inspires you. Meet Wendy Ross.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Going to new experiences with my son is a gamble. You are on edge all the time. Just breathe. When he's having a meltdown on the floor and the whole entire store is looking at you like you are a bad mom, you just want to go and crawl under a rock. It's challenging.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I stay in sometimes because it's easier for him to be around all of his toys. I'm afraid.

WENDY ROSS, CNN HERO: As a developmentally pediatrician I do a lot of diagnosing of autism. When I heard that my families were afraid to go out, I felt like I needed to find a way to help them. Ever everyday experiences like going to a baseball game can be a challenge for kids with autism. Music, lights, the noise, there's a lot of unexpected sensory things happening.

How are you?

Good. How are you?

Are you ready to go?

I worked with the Phillies to train all 3,000 people that work at the ballpark.

Much of it is a social disability. So it needs to be addressed in the community. We prepare the families with story book of experiences that may happen at the park. And then we provide supported game experiences sort of like a safety net. If you start taking step outside of your door, your world gets bigger and bigger.

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