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Ebola Patient Rode Subway, Dined Out; Union: Ebola Protocol "Inefficient And Voluntary"; Are Homegrown Attackers Heeding ISIS' Call?

Aired October 24, 2014 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now in the NEWSROOM, Ebola in the big apple. Ahead this hour, facts, not fear. What you need to know. How it happened and what doctors are saying this morning.

Plus, breaking overnight, a new massive air bag recall, now German car maker, Audi, getting hit. We're tracking that for you.

How vulnerable is the United States to an Ottawa-style terror attack? Let's talk live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. We begin with breaking news and rattled nerves in New York City. This morning, an American doctor is hospitalized in isolation, battling the first case of Ebola to crop up in the nation's most-crowded city.

The 33-year-old Craig Spencer had been treating Ebola patients in West Africa. He returned to the United States one week ago today. He had cleared enhanced screening for Ebola at New York City's JFK airport, that's because his symptoms did not appear until six days later, just yesterday.

His fever spiked, he was rushed to Bellevue hospital, one of the medical facilities designated by the state to handle Ebola cases. Today three people who came in contact with Spencer are in quarantine because they dealt with him when he was sick and doctors say Spencer posed no threat when he visited a bowling alley or road the subway.

Also new this morning, researchers may be getting closer to a vaccine against Ebola. Clinical trials will soon begin for five experimental vaccines and it's possible a mass inoculation program could be launched by the middle of next year.

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MARIE PAULA KIENY, WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION ASSISTANT DIRECTOR: I don't know exactly how much vaccine will be available in 2015, but it will be in 2015, that's absolutely for sure.

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COSTELLO: We are covering all angles of this story. CNN's Elizabeth Cohen is outside Bellevue hospital where Dr. Spencer is undergoing treatment and here with me is Dr. Devi, an assistant professor of anesthesiology and rehabilitation at the NYU School of Medicine. Welcome to both of you. Thanks for being here.

Elizabeth, how Dr. Spencer is doing?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, we were told last night by Mayor Deblasio that he is in good shape. He didn't give any more details than that. We're expecting a press conference, Carol, an hour from now where hopefully they'll give us more details.

You know, two of the big questions are, is Dr. Spencer getting a blood transfusion from an Ebola survivor? Many experts think that could be very, very helpful.

Also, is he getting any experimental drugs? We know the drug ZMapp is not available. However, there were other drugs that Ebola patients have been getting and there's some hope that might work -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Elizabeth, a CDC team is already on site. What are they doing?

COHEN: You know, they sort of have a dual role here. The first part is in the community. They want to make sure that all the contact tracing has been done right and that they have caught everyone who might have had contact with Dr. Spencer.

They're also going to be going inside this hospital right here and trying to see -- making sure that they're observing good infection control practices, wearing the right protective gear. This was obviously a big issue in Dallas.

It's not expected to be a big issue here. This is a hospital that has trained for this. It is designated to treat Ebola patients. The CDC folks are here, but I will say, New York City has an incredible public health team. This is a different situation than in Dallas. The CDC is here to support the New York team that's already here.

COSTELLO: Dr. Devi, I want to calm some fear because there is a lot of consternation here in New York City this morning, right? I guess my first question -- and I'll ask you this because a congressman brought it up. He said this doctor should have been in quarantine for 21 days since he came back from West Africa.

Instead, the doctor passed through the airport after being checked, right? And he went home and when he showed signs of a fever he called an ambulance and then was take on the Bellevue Hospital. Should he have been in quarantine for 21 days?

DR. DEVI NAMPIAPARAMPIL, ANESTHESIOLOGY PROFESSOR, NYU SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: I think he should, but I think that there should have been more clear guidelines to anybody coming from West Africa about the quarantine period. So, for example, here, he was checking his temperature twice a day so he was trying to be vigilant.

And he didn't go directly to the E.R. on his own. He actually alerted people, the first responders that, you know, he was at risk for Ebola so at least he took some precautions.

But in terms of going out to the bowling alley and other things, using the subway, that is a concern. So we need to be consistent in our approach. We need to tell people what to do --

COSTELLO: To make it clear, the doctor in your mind should have stayed at home for 21 days?

NAMPIAPARAMPIL: It's a judgment call. He wasn't told to do that. He wasn't told he was in quarantine so I think we have to be more clear, you know, the CDC or travel officials, about what people need to do coming back from West Africa.

COSTELLO: On the other hand, we here from doctors that it's not an air born disease and because he rode the subway and because he went bowling doesn't mean anyone is at risk of catching Ebola, so you see the confusing message there.

NAMPIAPARAMPIL: Well, I think there are two things. So they're not at risk in the sense that he didn't have symptoms and you're not contagious if you don't have symptoms, but in terms of creating panic or making people alarmed, why go through that?

So they may not be at risk for Ebola, but they still feel some concern because it raises all these questions, but "what if someone was using the subway? What would we do in that case?"

I think we should have actually a strike team for the people in quarantine because why do people leave quarantine? They can't get food. They need to do things. They are kind of alone.

Maybe they have trouble to at work trying to explain why they can't come out of their apartment. I think there are things we could do better.

COSTELLO: Interesting. Elizabeth, three people came into close contact with Dr. Spencer. Where are they this morning?

COHEN: We understand that they are being quarantined. We haven't been told an exact location yet exactly where they are. It may be in their own residences. I want to add something to what the doctor just said. There is -- I think we're thinking of this as black and white a little bit.

Should they be allowed out or should they be in quarantine? Is there a middle ground? I was speaking with an expert who says maybe we should let them take that three-mile jog because you won't come into contact with someone on a three-mile jog.

But maybe they shouldn't be getting on the subway because it's hard to avoid touching someone on a subway. I think there are steps to this that have not been thought through, that the CDC is really just now thinking through.

COSTELLO: All right. So Elizabeth Cohen, Dr. Devi, stand by, because I want to bring our viewers back to Capitol Hill where there's a House Oversight Committee hearing on Ebola and how it affects health care workers, specifically nurses. I was expecting -- this is the co- president of the National Nurse's Union so this is Ms. Deborah Burger. Let's listen.

DEBORAH BURGER, RN., CO-PRESIDENT, NATIONAL NURSES UNITED: -- the Ebola pandemic and the exposure of health care workers to Ebola in Texas and the real threat that it could occur elsewhere in the U.S. represent a clear and present danger to public health.

Every RN who works in a health care facility could be Nina Pham or Amber Vinson, both of whom contracted Ebola while treating Thomas Eric Duncan at Texas Presbyterian Hospital in Dallas. One patient diagnosed and dead in this country, two nurses infected so far.

In our survey of over 3,000 nurses from over 1,000 hospitals in every state, D.C. and the Virgin Islands reveals 85 percent of the nurses say they are not adequately trained and the level of preparation for Ebola in our facilities is insufficient.

Sixty eight percent of RNs still say their hospital has not communicated any policy for admission of a potential Ebola patient. Eight four percent still say their hospitals have not provided by Ebola education with the opportunity to interact and ask questions.

Forty four percent say their hospitals lack sufficient supplies of eye protection now, 46 percent say there are insufficient supplies of fluid-resistant, impermeable gowns in their hospital, 41 percent say their hospitals do not have plans to equip isolation rooms.

Initially, the nurses who interacted with Mr. Duncan wore non- impermeable gowns, three pairs of gloves with no taping around the wrists, surgical masks with the option of N-95s and face shields leaving their necks exposed.

Two of them became infected. This is what happens when guidelines are inefficient and voluntary. The new CDC guideline that protective equipment leave no skin exposed is a direct testament to the courage of Dallas whistle-blower Brianna Aguirre who first spoke with us.

We have called on President Obama to invoke his executive authority and urge Congress legislatively to mandate uniform national standards. These include full body hazmat suits that meet the standard for blood penetration and the ASTM f-1671 standard for viral penetration, which leaves no skin exposed or unprotected.

Niosh-approved air powered purifying respirators with an assigned factor of 50 or higher standard as appropriate. At least two direct care RNs for each Ebola patient and no additional patient care assignment.

Continuous on-site interactive hands-on teaching with the RNs and updates responsive to the changing nature of the disease, the precautionary principal must be utilized.

COSTELLO: We're going to jump out of this, but you get the gist of what she's saying. Common sense rules should be put into place and a federal mandate should come from either the legislature or the president so that everybody is on the same page. Dr. Devi, it sounds like such common sense.

NAMPIAPARAMPIL: I agree. I'm not sure why we need legislation because you would think hospitals would actually want to be prepared to treat Ebola. Why have a repeat of what happened in Texas.

COSTELLO: So why is it so difficult to come up with one set of guidelines to protect health care workers?

NAMPIAPARAMPIL: I think part of the issue is that we haven't faced this type of crisis before. We haven't seen something like Ebola so people might not have taken it as seriously at first and thought well, we won't see a patient with Ebola.

And then there was a sense of overconfidence where they felt like no matter what we'll be prepared, it's not a big deal. Now we've seen both those approaches are not going to work so it should be easier to get it done, but some of it may be practical considerations, getting the actual gear or doing the training. But that's not an excuse.

COSTELLO: Dr. Devi, many thanks to you.

In other news this morning, a senior law enforcement source telling CNN there is no indication that the man who attacked four New York City officers with a hatchet had any ties to radical Islamism groups or jihadists.

Looked like an ambush, though, Thursday in Queens as the attacker hid behind a bus shelter almost stalking these officers. Two are hurt, one is in critical condition. Eventually the officers shot and killed the attacker.

Now police in New York have been told to watch for random attacks and the president has been briefed on the attack, but it follows a series of attacks targeting law enforcement and the military but still New York authorities say they can find no connection to radical Islamist on the streets of New York City.

Athena Jones joins us from the White House. Good morning.

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. The president was briefed on the incident against the New York cops last night. There are a lot of questions, though, of course, about this attacker. We know from one source he was a Muslim convert and on his Facebook page bearing his name there's a quote from the Koran, but as you mentioned, authorities are still looking into the motive behind this attack.

Even if it was not linked to radical Islam, it has raised concerns about attacks linked to radical Islam, the so-called lone wolf attackers, people may not have had direct ties to a group like ISIS or al Qaeda, but who themselves have been self-radicalized and inspired to carry out an attack on their own.

This is something that the Obama administration has been well aware of for some time putting together a strategy that involves community policing, talking to Muslim leaders and local communities to guard against anyone being self-radicalized and becoming one of these lone wolf attackers.

As of right now, there are still questions remaining about whether this is another example of what we saw earlier this week in Canada, in Quebec, that radical convert hitting and killing a soldier with his car and, of course, on Wednesday the shooting there on Parliament Hill in Ottawa -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, Athena Jones reporting live from White House this morning.

New allegations of human rights abuses in Ferguson, Missouri, you remember the rubber bullets, tear gas, heavy military equipment using against protesters. A new report says police should be investigated for their use of heavy force.

CNN's Sara Sidner is in Ferguson with more on this. Good morning.

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Carol, this report coming out today. They named several things, they have a list of grievances they say need to be looked at and investigated and then changed. They talk about intimidation of protesters, excessive use of force by police and violations of people's right to assembly and expression.

They detail them in the report, giving examples of when they felt that the police went overboard or violated the rights of protesters and much of what they talked about is what happened early on in August after the shooting and killing of Michael Brown at the hands of white Police Officer Darren Wilson.

They talked through what happened to protesters, they also mentioned, though, that they did realize police had a difficult job to do with such large crowds, that most of them were peaceful -- the report, but that there were parts of the crowd that were doing things like looting and throwing bottles and rocks at police.

And understood that police had to deal with that, but that they really went overboard when it came to the peaceful protest, and so that is what the report is trying to detail. They are asking for an independent investigation and a deep look at the actual incident that sparked that which is, of course, the killing of Michael Brown -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, I have a question along those lines. Attorney General Eric Holder is coming down hard on the Ferguson grand jury and the leaks coming from that grand jury. Are they leaks? I mean, who's putting this information out there?

GANIM: That is the big question and everyone is denying they have anything to do with the leaks. We heard from Darren Wilson's attorney saying they are not responsible for the leaks.

We heard from the St. Louis County Prosecuting Attorney Bob McCullough who sent out a statement saying his office was not responsible for the leaks and that it does detrimental things to the investigation and what the grand jury and justice system is all about.

Certainly it is affecting people here. It is affecting the protesters who believe this is all conspiracy to try and leak out information bit by bit that most of that information has been to help Darren Wilson's case.

And so there is a lot of tension here that rises every time something else leaks. And everyone is saying that the leaks do affect this grand jury and do affect people's idea of how the justice system works and certainly damage the justice system and how people see things.

So it is really starting to make things more aggravated here. It's aggravating people, annoying people and you're certainly seeing that in the streets on a nightly basis -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, Sara Sidner reporting live from Ferguson, Missouri, this morning.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, is the ISIS campaign to attack people in uniform hitting home for some North Americans? We'll talk about that and more with a CIA counterterrorism analyst.

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COSTELLO: Are disenfranchised North Americans grabbing on to the radical ideas of ISIS. The terror group is calling on sympathizers to attack men and women in uniform and some people might be heeding the call.

Zach Thompson was shot dead after wounding two New York City police officers with a hatchet yesterday. Police are looking into Thompson's background, although sources tell CNN he has no known connection to any radical groups.

Canadian authorities haven't found an ISIS connection to the gunman who shot and killed an army reservist nor to another radical Islamism who ran down two police officers in his car, killing one of them.

Then there's this -- three teenage girls apparently lured by ISIS were stopped in Germany and returned to Denver after a parent discovered their plan.

So let's talk about all of this. Joining me via Skype, former CIA counterterrorism analyst is, Aki Peritz. Good morning.

AKI PERITZ, FORMER CIA COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: Good morning.

COSTELLO: So what do you make of this? Were all these people inspired by ISIS or just looking for an excuse to do something bad?

PERITZ: Well, it's kind of a difficult situation and right now law enforcement authorities and the intelligence community is really looking into seeing whether there are any connections to any of these radical groups, not just ISIS, but al Qaeda and perhaps other organizations. But these data points are troubling. If they do turn out to be something that could suggest there's a much more of an interesting strategy to -- for folks who are on the edge and mentally disturbed to commit crimes.

Remember that all of these incidents, even if you take them as a whole, don't really add up to very much. They only were able to kill two people in three attacks and the thing is that al Qaeda.

And ISIS are really masters at the complex suicide attack, something that's extremely spectacular. So these are just sort of one-off issues. So the data points are forming, but they aren't quite solidified yesterday.

COSTELLO: Well, two death cans still inspire a lot of fear and isn't that what they're operating on?

PERITZ: Absolutely. But since we're still in the preliminary investigation, we just don't know whether that's actually the case. Let me give you an example.

When there was this terrible attack in Norway, people immediately jumped to say that this was an Islamic terrorist attack and it turned out to be an individual with very right far-right tendencies, had no connection to radical Islam at all.

So I would merely suggest to your audience that we want to wait until law enforcement folks have done their job to make sure there's no operation going on to deploy these individuals.

COSTELLO: Gotcha. I'd like to center on these teenaged girls because that story is so disturbing to me. These girls romanticized ISIS. They wanted to meet an ISIS warrior. How is it possible that these young girls would focus solely on their own -- I don't know, there is no romantic side of ISIS. They're online all the time, surely they know the violence that ISIS carries out.

PERITZ: But ISIS does a very good job at appealing to individuals, especially women, to come and join their jihad. They obviously what we see in the media is the terrible things like that beheadings and bombings and so forth.

But they do a very good job or at least try to do a good job of appealing to individuals saying that your prince charming who has a beard is waiting for you and you're looking for a husband. So, for example, there are five to eight million Muslims living in America today.

So the fact that we only have about a dozen, two dozen, three dozen individuals who are actively trying to get to Syria or have a Syria background is infinitesimally small.

But it appeals to their sense of identity, their sense of a warp religious identity or an issue of adventure or wanting to get married. And they really appeal to those issues. COSTELLO: Well, the other question I had, these girls are teenagers, they're young, 17 and younger. Police are not going to charge them with any crime yet they were going to go to Syria to join up with ISIS. Should they be charged with something?

PERITZ: It's unclear whether they can be charged with anything. They're teenagers and teenagers do really stupid things. I'm not sure what in the criminal code we can charge them with because they're not materially helping them in a case. They're just trying to get to Syria. And believe it or not, here in the United States, it's not a crime to go to Syria.

COSTELLO: True. I was just interested to hear what you had to say about that. Aki Peritz, thank you very much. I appreciate it.

PERITZ: Thank you very much.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM, a new air bag recall is issued as pressure mounts on car companies to expand their recall to fix to potentially exploding air bags. I'll talk to a former employee for the company that makes those air bags, next.

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COSTELLO: Good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. The pressure is mounting for the governor to issue a nationwide safety recall for millions of cars with potentially faulty air bags. Right now only a few states are part of that recall.

I'm talking about the potential for air bags to explode, pummeling people with metal shrapnel. Police say one woman was killed in Florida last week. They actually thought she had been stabbed to death at first, but it was because of her air bag.

In the meantime, Audi is recalling 850,000 A-4 models worldwide for a different kind of air bag problem. The company says a software glitch is preventing the front air bags from deploying at all in models after 2012.

Jason Vines is a former advisor to the Japanese company, Takata, which makes the air bags involved in the exploding air bag recall. He joins us live from Wilmington, North Carolina.

He's also the author of the book "What Did Jesus Drive, Crisis PR in Cars, Computers and Christianity." Welcome, sir. I appreciate you are being here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you for let me come on board.

COSTELLO: Thanks for being here this morning. So this air bag problem has been ongoing since 2005. Why didn't Takata, the maker of these air bags or these car manufacturers address this problem sooner?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it was a lot of moving parts, no pun intended. Allegations that Takata hit it and some lousy reporting and lousy data collection all led to --