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LEGAL VIEW WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

Ottawa Gunman Ties to Jihadists; Canadian Parliament Reopens; Ottawa Gunman Had Ties to Jihadists; Leaked Details Support Cop in Ferguson Shooting

Aired October 23, 2014 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: And breaking news. We now have a picture of the gunman who terrorized Canada's parliament. We also have brand new reporting this hour of his possible ties to Islamic extremist principles in Canada and possibly elsewhere.

And also this hour, growing demands for the arrest of the policeman who shot Michael Brown. As even more leaked evidence shows possibly that the officer might have been telling the truth. It certainly supports his version. So, what happens next in Ferguson?

And, is Tarheel Blue forever stained? A scathing report outlines 18 years of academic fraud. Thousands of athletes gives passing grades they needed to play from classes that did not even exist. A scandal reaching all the way back to the hallowed Dean Smith days.

Hello, everyone, and welcome. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. And this is LEGAL VIEW.

We begin with the breaking news out of Canada about that gunman in the Ottawa attack. We now have a photograph of the gunman who attacked parliament. Michael Zehaf-Bibeau. Canadian government officials with detailed knowledge of the investigation have now confirmed this is the man who shot and killed a Canadian army reservist.

We are also learning a plain-clothed constable detailed to parliament security was shot in the leg in this attack. He was among the first on the scene when the shooter entered the building. A House of Commons official says his injury is not life-threatening. He was treated at the hospital and ultimately he was released.

Back to the details about the shooter. New details, in fact, about his potential ties to Islamic extremists. CNN's chief national security correspondent Jim Sciutto joining me live now from Washington with the just in news.

Tell me what you found out.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ashleigh, CNN has learned that Michael Zehaf-Bibeau, the alleged Canadian shooter, had connections with other known Canadian extremists and they include a man named Hazabullah Yousefsi (ph). He was a Vancouver resident who was charged in July for traveling to Syria to join a terrorist group. He is still at large. The importance of this, is this adds credence to the idea that the

motivation for yesterday's deadly shooting was Islamic extremism. And I can tell you know that U.S. authorities, Ashleigh, are now frantically looking for connections between Bibeau and other Americans, perhaps known extremists here or others that they didn't know about, either by communications on the Internet, by cell phone communications, but they're also looking at his travel to see if Bibeau traveled to the U.S.

But the headline here that he had known connections, known ties to known Canadian extremists, Islamic extremists, including one who was charged with traveling to Syria to join a terrorist group there.

BANFIELD: So I don't know if this is -- it's hard to phrase this question, I'm going to try the best I can, Jim, with you. This is a guy who had a very troubled past. He was a drug user. He had a criminal record that spans at least a decade. How much of this do authorities think it was a troubled guy looking for a cause? He'd have done it under any cause. Or how much of this is, he was radicalized and others got him to do this?

SCIUTTO: Well, it's a fair question. It's something that they, frankly, won't have a hard answer to yet. But I will tell you this, in my experience, looking at foreign recruits for terrorist groups in the Middle East, that the profile is often very similar and you do find young me likes this who had troubled lives, perhaps run-ins with the law, issues with alcoholism, et cetera, I'm not saying this is true of all of them, but there is a common profile here of young men who run into problems like that and they find an identity, a cause with Islamic extremism.

I'll tell you, just a few weeks ago when we were the first to report an American who went to fight and die for ISIS in Syria, he was a Minnesota man, similar as well. He had a long rap sheet, lots of run- ins with the law. He was not raised Islamic or was not raised a Muslim. He converted to Islam. And then he joined the terror fight. That's not to say that anybody who converts to Islam by any means is a candidate for this. But when you look at that profile, you often have troubled young men who find this cause as a new identity, a new definition, and they jump in. They jump in and go and risk their lives to join.

BANFIELD: Well, Jim Sciutto continuing to dig for the details on this person. Thank you for that. And that's a really quick turn on the information. Appreciate it.

There's also heightened concern about security here in the United States following the second attack on Canadian soil just this week alone. The FBI is now urging its field offices across the country to stay on alert. The Secret Service is reviewing security procedures at the White House. The military is tightening security at the Tomb of the Unknowns at Arlington National Cemetery. And the United States is warning patrol agents on the border with Canada to be on high alert.

Also today, and if you haven't seen this, turn the volume up on your television and make sure you watch. A very moving tribute in Canada's parliament to the man who's being hailed a hero for shooting and killing the gunman in Ottawa's deadly rampage yesterday. The video was taken that you're seeing right now moments after the sergeant at arms, Kevin Vickers, shot and killed the shooter. And you can just see that flash there of him actually holding a side arms in the hallways of the parliament buildings.

And believe it or not, after almost three decades in law enforcement, it's believed that yesterday was the first time that the 58-year-old ever exchanged gunfire with anyone. In fact, his brother even said that to CNN. He made that shot count, though. Vickers normally leads the procession of members of parliament into the House of Commons. But today it was so much different.

Really something to just look into his face and realize what he's thinking, what he's going through. Yes, he did something heroic and, yes, he killed a man, but look at that reception in the House of Commons. Just remarkable. And later the prime minister, Stephen Harper, opening parliament with a message of unity, we are all Canadian. It's just something else.

Our Chris Cuomo jumped on a plane right away as this was breaking. He joins me live now.

I just want to get your reaction to that processional as that video was released. It just - I just -- I stopped everything I was doing and I turned up the TV and just stopped and listened and looked and processed it. And I'm not sure how different it would be there.

CHRIS CUOMO, ANCHOR, CNN'S "NEW DAY": The famed man with the mace as Vickers is now known. That's what he was carrying in there, part of his ceremonial position for the House of Commons. You know, I was looking to the side because people who were coming by were watching the video as well.

He is certainly the man of the hour here, not because of the life he took, but because of the lives he saved, right, Ashleigh? I mean it is a sad fate for him to have to be in that position, except for what he was able to prevent by doing it. And one of the questions that will come out of this is, how did the man get so far in a building that's so important? That's something that will be subject to an easier review than the larger questions that are raised by this that even someone as heroic as Mr. Vickers won't be able to solve all alone, and that is, how do you deal with this quickly emerging threat of people who are not of right mind using faith, distorted in the form of a twisted notion of Islam, to bring violence on communities.

And the mood here, you'll see, people are gathering around. They're basically looking at the memorial right now and just staring at the taped off site around the National Memorial Monument and the Senataf (ph), the unmarked tomb. It's still in yellow tape. And they're just looking. And we often see, Ashleigh, you've covered many of these, unfortunately, out of the worst, you will see the best. And that is the challenge for Canada and frankly the United States because this is the toughest type of threat to combat, much more than diagnosing what a group will do, much more intricate and sophisticated and risky than figuring out how to foil a big plot. These rough, violent actions by one off people who are looking for some meaning in their life in some perverse way is a real challenge for all of us.

BANFIELD: Chris, I'm just looking behind you and I know this morning the crime scene tape was still up when Prime Minister Harper arrived with his wife to lay some flowers at that tomb. Does it still seem likes this is an active investigation at that site or are people moving on as the prime minister urged them to do?

CUOMO: I think it's going to be hard. This is a very tight knit and close community. You know, it is the capital, but that gives a distorted significance to the kind of - the grandness of this place. This is a small community. This is a place that has had four homicides in the last year, Ashleigh. Obviously Reserve Corporal Cirillo makes number five. So they're not used to this, let alone as a terror element from someone so random. It's very frightening. It would be in any community. And yet what's bringing them here is this now sense of collective purpose. Again, often, thankfully, we see the best of people and their best moments growing out of the worst.

And, yes, this could have been much worse. If it hadn't been for the sergeant of arms, that would have been very likely, and yet the possibility of people more frequently taking a life or two and then their own, that's a very daunting thing to live with every day. So there's a big challenge presented by this. We'll have to see how the Canadian authorities rise to the challenge and, frankly, how the U.S. deals with this challenge because if it happened here, it certainly could happen anywhere.

BANFIELD: Well, a high-level politician who's a friend of mine in Canada, we've been friends since we were babies, said to me, Ashleigh, everything has changed. Everything has changed. And I remember saying that to her on 9/11, everything's changed.

Chris Cuomo, thank you so much. And you've been doing some great work. I know you've been up pretty much 24 hours straight and so I'm going to give you props for your show. I want to let everybody on our program know that Chris is on every morning, CNN's "New Day," 6:00 a.m. Eastern, tune in, great show full of news. Thank you, Chris.

So, this attack started in Ottawa. It started with the fatal shooting of a Canadian soldier. He was guarding the National War Memorial behind Chris. It's a ceremonial post that is a big honor. More on who this man was, after this.

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BANFIELD: The victim of the deadly shooting at the National War Memorial in Ottawa, Canada, 24-year-old Corporal Nathan Cirillo, a Canadian army reservist, a father of a six-year-old son. He was also an animal lover and a guy who loved music and liked joking with his friends. You can tell a lot by those pictures. It is believed to be the last picture of him standing guard at the memorial. Hard to believe what would happen just after those pictures were taken.

There's such a moving salute to Corporal Cirillo as well. An editorial cartoonist named Bruce McKennen (ph) depicts him being gently cradled by one of the soldiers depicted on that memorial, while another of those who are being remembered reaches down as if to pull him up and on to the memorial to be forever remembered for his honor.

In a city that only had four homicides, as you heard Chris Cuomo report, now five, after yesterday, you can understand what kind of a shock this would be. This sort of an attack is really unthinkable in a place like Canada. John Ivison is a political columnist with "The National Post." He tweeted, "Canada has just lost her innocence." He joins me now live along with Chris Goldrick, who's a producer for the CBC, who was on the scene moments after the shooting.

First, I want to get to you if I can, Chris, with some details that you've been able to unearth about this shooter. Perhaps details that people haven't heard yet. Can you tell me what you've found out?

CHRIS GOLDRICK, PRODUCER, CBC: Absolutely, Ashleigh. As you can imagine, our CBC Ottawa newsroom has gone into overdrive since this story broke. And one of our reporters, Judy Trin (ph), has been working it and has been able to find out that the alleged shooter had been staying at what's known as the Ottawa Mission here in Ottawa, which is not too far from the war memorial, perhaps a kilometer away. Witnesses there and sources tell us that the alleged shooter had been staying there for two weeks, possibly a month, had been acting very irrationally. He had told someone that the devil was influencing him. And apparently he was telling anyone that would listen to him that -- to pray because the world is going to end.

The RCMP have been at the mission and obviously are interviewing people there. This is just coming to us in the last few -- in about the last hour. So that's about the gist of what we have so far. But, obviously, more information coming to light about the man who is responsible for this.

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BANFIELD: The victim of the deadly shooting at the National War Memorial in Ottawa, Canada, 24-year-old Corporal Nathan Cirillo, a Canadian Army Reservist, a father of a 6-year-old son. He was also an animal lover and a guy who loved music and liked joking with his friends.

You can tell a lot by those pictures. It's believed to be the last picture of him standing guard at the memorial. Hard to believe what would happen just after those pictures were taken.

Such a moving salute to Corporal Cirillo as well. An editorial cartoonist named Bruce McKinnon depicts him being gently cradled by one of the soldiers depicted on that memorial while another of those who are being remembered reaches down as if to pull him up and on to the memorial to be forever remembered for his honor.

In a city that only had four homicides, as you heard Chris Cuomo report, now five after yesterday, you can understand what kind of a shock this would be. This sort of an attack is really unthinkable in a place like Canada.

John Ivison is a political columnist with the "National Post," he tweeted, "Canada has just lost her innocence." He joins me now live along with Chris Goldrick, who's a producer for the CBC, who was on the scene moments after the shooting.

First I want to get to you if I can, Chris, with some details that you've been able to unearth about this shooter. Perhaps details that people haven't heard yet. Can you tell me what you found out?

CHRIS GOLDRICK, PRODUCER, CBC: Absolutely, Ashleigh. As you can imagine our CBC Ottawa newsroom has gone into overdrive since the story broke and one of our reporters, Judy Trinh, has been working it and has been able to find out that the alleged shooter had been staying at what's known as the Ottawa Mission here in Ottawa, which is not too far from the war memorial, perhaps a kilometer away.

Witnesses there and sources tell us that the alleged shooter had been staying there for two weeks, possibly a month, had been acting very irrationally. He had told someone that the devil was influencing him. And apparently he was telling anyone that would listen to him that -- to pray because the world is going to end.

The RCMP have been at the Mission and obviously are interviewing people there. This is just coming to us in the last few -- in about the last hour. So that's about the gist of what we have so far. But obviously more information coming to light about the man who -- who is responsible for this.

BANFIELD: So troubling. And, John, I heard you reporting earlier on CNN about just how little he must have known about the site that he attacked because he barged through that door on Parliament Hill and took a right-hand turn.

And can you describe for our viewers what he would have encountered had he taken a left-hand turn instead?

JOHN IVISON, POLITICAL COLUMNIST, NATIONAL POST: Well, in fact, what he did, he came through the doors, I understand he shot one of the guards there. There are usually two unarmed guards. He shot one, I think, in the foot or in the leg, the guard that's now been released, so we're grateful for that. But it's actually a long, straight, thin they call it the Hall of Honor.

And as you go down the Hall of Honor, off to one side is a room called the Railway Room and off to the left side is a room called the Reading Room. And in the Reading Room the government caucus was meeting and the prime minister was probably standing at the podium and had he walked through that closed doors which would have been open, it wouldn't have been locked, he would have been able to wreak havoc.

As it was he obviously didn't know the layout. He went straight to the bottom of the Hall of Honor and that's where Kevin Vickers' office is, and obviously Mr. Vickers acted pretty summarily once he understood what the situation was.

BANFIELD: But it's just remarkable had he taken that left turn instead he would have encountered probably the most critical mass of government members that would be in that building.

IVISON: Absolutely. I mean I -- over a glass of scotch last night, a late night reflection, grateful that these were lunatic amateurs, rather than professionals because there was a car sitting there, which we were all standing around, which could -- well have been booby- trapped before the area was cordoned off.

If there was a second assailant then they could have been sniping at all of us who were standing around, milling around completely oblivious to the fact that first responders and journalists and whoever else were in danger. So it really -- it does seem to me to be pretty haphazard attempt here. There doesn't seem to be a lot of planning involved.

BANFIELD: Well, you and I were texting pretty much throughout the entire afternoon and into the evening, and I couldn't believe how long you were under lockdown and I'm glad you've got that scotch finally.

I wanted to just ask you, Chris, if I could, about what you saw. You know, you just -- you just heard John talk about the lunatic amateur, but you were at the actual War Memorial and saw the aftermath. Did you ever get a look at the killer himself?

GOLDRICK: No, no, I didn't. I arrived perhaps a minute after he had left. People were -- witnesses were still sort of pointing and looking in the direction that the shooter had left the scene from what I -- what I saw was, as you can imagine, a scene of sort of controlled chaos as the first responders, civilians actually, were performing CPR and mouth to mouth on the -- on the soldier who had been shot.

So a lot of confusion. Police rushing around, trying to clear the scene, wanting to find as many people as they could who may have seen what happened. So, you know, a lot going on and a lot of -- a lot of, you know, worried apprehensive people at the scene.

BANFIELD: Well, I'm glad that both of you are OK, my fellow countrymen. And I'm sorry that we're meeting under these circumstances.

Chris Goldrick and John Ivison, thanks for taking the time to tell us about what that day was like. Appreciate it.

IVISON: Thank you.

GOLDRICK: You're welcome.

BANFIELD: I want to take you now to another story that we've been following. The grand jury meeting in the shooting death of unarmed teenager Michael Brown, and wait for it, because there's new details that are leaking out about the actual evidence in this case, like witnesses, who say things you've never heard before, people you've never heard about before, and all of that coming out seemingly supporting the officer.

What will that mean for all of this? That's next.

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BANFIELD: There were more protests erupting in Ferguson, Missouri, overnight with demonstrators demanding the arrest of Officer Darren Wilson despite some stunning new evidence that could help him to avoid charges in the shooting of Michael Brown.

Just a day after a St. Louis newspaper published Brown's autopsy report there is yet more information leaking out. "The Washington Post" is now reporting more than a half dozen black witnesses have provided testimony that supports Officer Wilson's version of the events.

And that's not all that's leaking out.

Joining me to talk about what this information could mean for the case against Wilson, CNN legal analyst Mel Robbins and Danny Cevallos.

So, Mel, I'll start with you. You don't like to describe witnesses black, white, Hispanic, you don't like to have to do that and typically we wouldn't. But in this case you almost have to because this story has become so divisive on black/white lines.

MEL ROBBINS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, we don't have to describe it that way, but interestingly the leaks and the information coming out of the grand jury is describing it that way. Which to me points to the fact that these are -- you know, obviously these are very troubling leaks, they're not surprising. This is a police department that also put the video out about Michael Brown.

BANFIELD: Do you think legally it matters to the grand jury, though, that these were seven to eight black witnesses supporting the white officer as opposed to white witnesses?

ROBBINS: I do think it matters, just like there were a lot of people that said that it mattered that it was two white construction officers that were reacting on the scene almost contemporaneously with -- right after the shooting happened.

BANFIELD: Supporting Darren --

ROBBINS: Yes. But if you look at --

BANFIELD: It's not supporting Darren Wilson.

ROBBINS: Correct. But if you look at the leak and the information that's coming out to me the fact that these are African American witnesses is more important for the larger story because I think these leaks are happening because both the feds and state official know that this is marching towards a no true bill.

BANFIELD: No indictment.

ROBBINS: A lack of indictment.

BANFIELD: Yes.

ROBBINS: And that they're trying to put information out there. Now I don't know this to be true. This is my lens on it.

BANFIELD: Didn't make a difference. The protests were, you know, out last night despite that information.

Danny, there's something else that "The Washington Post" came out with, and that is blood spatter evidence. We hadn't heard this yet before. Blood spatter evidence analyzed from the scene, according to a source that the "Washington Post" has indicate Michael Brown was in a forward movement towards Officer Wilson when he died.

They can't say at the rate of what speed but they say it was without question forward movement. Does that matter forensically to the story?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Absolutely, because now that we have forensic evidence it tends to support one narrative over the other. And while blood spatter, it's not dispositive, because any expert will tell you that it shows that something may have happened a certain way, but it's always possible it may have spattered in another direction or in the case of gunshot residue.

Sure, there was gunshot residue in the car but that doesn't rule out that at some point he had his hands raised but you see, and I like that Mel used the word marching because that's what we see. As more and more forensic evidence comes out, whether it's gunshot residue in the car or blood spatter, we march closer and closer towards that forensic objective evidence supporting one witness' or one narrative of this story.

Ultimately, people can lie. Things do not lie. And that's what forensic evidence is. It's the science of things.

ROBBINS: Or they can be mistaken.

CEVALLOS: It's the science of things. Yes.

ROBBINS: Or they can be mistaken.

CEVALLOS: Or people -- yes, that's just --

BANFIELD: People commit mistake.

CEVALLOS: It's just the same but --

BANFIELD: I got 30 seconds left. But one of the other leaks that "The Washington Post" has come out with is that there were extraordinarily high levels of THC in Michael Brown's system. Does this matter?

ROBBINS: Of course it matters. Because what you're talking about is throwing physical evidence against the narrative from the witnesses and from the officer. And when every piece of physical evidence starts to line up to support the officer's credibility, and what the officer's story is from the fact that the gunshot entering the thumb and going towards the wrist at close range, to the blood spattering moving forward, now you've got a grand jury weighing with testimony and facts that are leaning toward the officer.

CEVALLOS: People are all over the place when it comes to marijuana. Depending on who you ask, whatever culture you ask, whatever part of the country, some people say, you have THC in your system, big deal. Other people say THC, well, that makes people psychotic.

BANFIELD: You're a drug user.

CEVALLOS: So people are all over the place.

ROBBINS: Right.

(CROSSTALK)

CEVALLOS: And we are in a strange moment of time because our views of THC and marijuana are as divided as they ever have been.

ROBBINS: Also depends on how much was in his system.

CEVALLOS: Yes. Whether it was wet.

BANFIELD: And here's the deal.

CEVALLOS: Whether it was formaldehyde.

BANFIELD: When it comes to being divided so are juries. But thank God for that because there'll different perspectives on that grand jury. You would hope.

All right. Mel Robbins and Danny Cevallos, thank you for that.

Stick around. More stories to come for you to look into. Moving to one of those other stories, a shocking new report that's outlining academic athletic fraud at one of the country's most prestigious universities. And it's not just a few cases. This goes back decades. Details next.

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