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CNN NEWSROOM

Suspected Serial Killer Appears in Court; Denver Schoolgirls Tried to Join ISIS; Shooting at Canada Main Parliament Building

Aired October 22, 2014 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Alright.

Earlier this morning, we told you that suspected serial killer Darren Vann would make his initial appearance in court in Indiana this morning. He, indeed, did and he wasn't saying much. Our Poppy Harlow was inside the courtroom. I guess court is not in session any longer, it's over. Tell us what happened, Poppy.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was bizarre, Carol. The magistrate came in. The Lake County prosecutor himself was in the courtroom then. The defendant, Darren Vann, came in and was -- said "will you tell the whole truth, nothing but the truth?" and he didn't respond and the magistrate asked him again and he didn't respond and she asked a third time and he didn't respond. She warned him that if he does not respond and speak in this initial hearing that he will remain in jail forever. Those are the words that are used.

She said "we'll try this again in a week." He'll come back in a week here, do the same thing again. What is a big legal question that we have and we're reaching out to our legal analysts to find out is he could face the death penalty here in the state of Indiana if he is convicted of these murders. Is this a way that he could actually legally never, never be put on death row? If he doesn't say anything, Carol, in this initial hearing, he will stay in jail forever. So it was absolutely bizarre.

Also we had the defense attorney coming out and asking the prosecution not be able to talk at all to the defendant unless the defendant reaches out to them. The court granted that motion and they also put a gag order on everyone involved, meaning that the officials here, sheriffs, police, lawyers, et cetera, they're not going to be talking at this point -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Ok. I'm looking around the bureau for Paul Callan right now because I spotted him earlier.

HARLOW: I know.

COSTELLO: But we'll ask him that question. I know. Well, we'll get him on the phone so that we can answer that question for our viewers but you're right, very bizarre. So stay there. If there's any new information we'll get back to you. Thank you, Poppy Harlow. We appreciate it. HARLOW: Ok.

COSTELLO: We've been hearing how ISIS is trying to recruit vulnerable young western women as child brides. Now we're learning three Denver school girls may have tried to join up with the militants. Officials say the teenagers played hooky from school, caught a flight to Germany carrying thousands of dollars in cash with them. German authorities managed to intercept them.

America's top diplomat says he's grateful.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KERRY, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: We're very, very grateful to Germany for their cooperation with us on this particular instance of some young folks who were traveling. And it's under investigation now. Our folks are looking at the causes and impacts very carefully.

I don't want to violate any of that process so it's important not to comment on the why and wherefore of this except to say that this is an example of good cooperation between us and the increased vigilance of law enforcement on this issue of the movement of people from one country to another.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: With more on these girls, CNN's Pamela Brown is in Washington. So it's just unbelievable.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It really is. And it has intelligence officials here in the U.S. really on edge about this, Carol. We're learning that these teens are back home in Denver now after making this halfway on their journey to fight in Syria, according to law enforcement sources. They're believed to have researched online sites where extremists discussed how to get to Syria and then took money from their parents in order to follow through on their plans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: The latest American teenagers drawn in by the radical world of Islamic extremism. Three American high school girls from Denver, only 15 and 16 years old, two of them sisters of Somali descent, allegedly with loose plans to join the fight in Syria.

According to law enforcement sources, the girls boarded a flight in Denver over the weekend and made it to Frankfurt, Germany, where police arrested them before they could continue on to Turkey and then Syria. CNN has learned the teens allegedly self-radicalized online.

AKI PERITZ, FORMER CIA OFFICER: They're often times searching for an identity because what the jihadis are pushing is a specific narrative which is your people are being oppressed in this place called Syria, your government is doing nothing, we're the only ones who are actually going to help you out, why don't you join the fight?

BROWN: The only reason the girls were caught -- one of their parents called police and the FBI quickly flagged their passports.

This latest case comes on the heels of another Denver teen, 19-year- old Shannon Connolly, who pleaded guilty last month after trying to fly to Turkey to connect with an ISIS fighter she met online. And earlier this month, the FBI arrested 19-year-old Mohammed Kahn just before, officials say, he boarded a plane in Chicago with plans to join ISIS. According to the FBI, Kahn met someone online who helped him make plans. Kahn has pleaded not guilty to the charges.

PERITZ: Often times they're people who are scouring certain social media sites for people who are interested, potentially interested in going to fight in Iraq and also in Syria.

BROWN: This Australian teenager made it much farther than the airport. The 17-year-old recently showed up in video alongside ISIS fighters in Syria, threatening to behead western leaders, including President Obama.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And officials I've been speaking with say teens being radicalized is a dynamic that's existed for years. It fluctuates opinion on the conflict but what's most troubling here, Carol, is that it appears the demographic is getting younger. Here you have three girls. We're learning they were 15, 16, and 17 years old. It's really troubling to think that they were able to get all the way to Germany almost following through on their plans to get to Syria -- Carol.

COSTELLO: So you said these girls were returned to their parents. Would any legal charges be filed against them?

BROWN: I've been speaking with officials about that. At this point it appears that they will not be arrested here in the U.S. and there will not be a case brought against them, presumably because they are still juveniles -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Pamela Brown reporting live from Washington. Thanks.

I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: All right. We have breaking news out of Ottawa, Canada, to pass along to you. There's been a shooting at Canada's war memorial, that's right near the country's parliament. This is according to Constable Mark Soucie with the Ottawa Police Service. Police say one person was hit and injured. Officers are on the scene trying to figure out what happened.

I'm going to quote you something that one of the constables said. He said, "We don't know if it was someone from the military who was targeted or not." So just as a precaution, the Canadian Parliament is now on lockdown. Deborah Feyerick is trying to get more information on the story to pass along to you. As soon as she does, of course, we'll put her live on the air. Now I told you a few minutes ago we were going to track down our legal

analyst Paul Callan, we have finally managed to find him. We've got him on the phone. Paul, are you there?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, I am. Loud and clear.

COSTELLO: Ok. Paul, I wanted to ask you about something that happened in Indiana. The suspected serial killer appeared in court for an initial appearance on the murder of this 18-year-old in a motel room. The judge asked him "Are you willing to tell the truth?" The suspect refused to answer. She asked him again. He refused to answer. She said "Until you answer me, you will spend your life in jail. You will never get out of jail until you answer me." So we were wondering, is this a strategy or is he just playing around? What do you make of this?

CALLAN: Now, just so that I'm clear here, Carol, this is the suspect in the Indiana case who has responded this way?

COSTELLO: Yes, sir. Darren Vann.

CALLAN: Yes. I mean it looks to me like it would not be a strategy because most lawyers would tell somebody who's produced in court that what are called pedigree questions, that is your name, address and a little bit about your background has to be answered in court. You don't have a Fifth Amendment right to remain silent with respect to that.

And the cases that I've seen in the past where a suspect or even a witness refuses to answer a judge in court sometimes indicates mental illness, sometimes it's deliberate contempt of court but it almost always goes badly for the person who challenges the judge. He winds up locked up for a period of time -- a longer period than they would normally be locked up. So if it's a strategy, it's not a good one.

COSTELLO: Could the judge really lock him up forever unless he answers her questions?

CALLAN: Well, I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. You know, he could be held in contempt of court for a failure to respond appropriately to the judge and he certainly could be locked up for a period of time but the judge could not lock him up forever, necessarily. That would not occur.

COSTELLO: Understood. Paul Callan, thanks so much and thanks for answering our questions. We appreciate it.

I'm going to -- we're now going to join CNN International because I told you about that shooting at the Ottawa war memorial and the Canadian Parliament is on lockdown. Let's check and see what's happening now in Ottawa.

JOSH WINGROVE, CORRESPONDENT: It's called the hall of honor which has a military sort of implication to it at some time. I have no idea whether that was the intended -- AMARA WALKER, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: Right. Josh Wingrove, let me

just cut you off there. I want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world as we are watching this breaking news happening in Ottawa. The parliament buildings there are currently on lockdown after reports of an active shooter actually getting inside one of the parliament buildings.

I have Josh Wingrove, who's a journalist there in Ottawa, and he has the details. Josh, if you can just start from the beginning again. You said this happened before 10:00, all the MPs were in the main parliament building and the shooter got through the main door. Start from there.

WINGROVE: Yes, that's right. And this is a door that's used by MPs, by staff, by accredited journalists. It's not a public door so -- but it's open. I mean if you don't have a pass they'll kindly ask you to leave but if you want to barge in, I guess that's the way to do it. And so he came up through there. It appears that the gunfire broke out in the foyer just to the entrance of that door and moved down the hallway to the north towards the library of parliament.

Now I picked it up sort of running from the west wing of the building to when police were meeting down that hallway. Again, it's called the hall of honor (ph) as I understand it and there was a second round of gunfire just in front of the library of parliament and at that point I saw a body sort of slumped down. You know, obviously I couldn't confirm but it certainly looked lifeless. It was unclear whether that was an officer or a shooter.

The way the police were acting it didn't seem like it was a police officer. And then they briefly sort of checked on the body and then they have since been searching parliament center block. In Ottawa there's three sort of main parliamentary buildings. This is the main one right at the top of Parliament Hill. It's the iconic building with the peace power in it and we are still locked down inside the building right now and it looks like they're still searching the building but things have calmed down in the last 15 minutes or so.

WALKER: Josh, you say you are inside the main parliament building right now as you speak. So you are part of this lockdown inside, correct?

WINGROVE: That's right, yes.

WALKER: And you mentioned that you saw when the second round of gunfire occurred inside this main parliament building you saw someone get hit and this person slump down. So we also understand --

WINGROVE: Well, yes, I saw a body. You can draw-- I'm presuming that they got hit by some kind, but I saw a motionless body is what I can say that I saw right in front of the door of the library. The way the police were acting suggested it was not an officer -- that it was -- it was not an officer.

WALKER: So you saw a motionless body inside the main parliament building where you are right now near the library. WINGROVE: That's right.

WALKER: Ok. So you believe at least one person has been killed as a result of this shooting?

WINGROVE: It certainly looks like that but we've had no independent confirmation. If you can imagine, things are moving really quickly here. As I'm talking to you I see three security guards continuing a search with guns drawn of the building. They're walking by us here. I should mention of course as this develops more security poured into the building. We had tactical officers from the city police force come in and order all the journalists to the ground pointing their guns at us telling us to put our hands in the air. They moved us to a corner that has no windows or fewer windows to I suppose, you know, maximize our safety.

We're against the stone pillars. Again, it's the old sort of prestigious building here and so it appears to be very much still an active situation. As I understand it, there have been reports outside but no one is being allowed in. Of course, we are not being allowed out so all I have right now is my eyes and ears to try to figure out where things are. But it looks like an active search going on right now. There was another shooter or one shooter that they're still looking for. All we know is we're in lockdown still here in center block.

WALKER: Did you see the shooter yourself as this person began to fire off the rounds inside this main parliament building?

WINGROVE: I did not. No.

WALKER: Ok. And what about the people who are in this lockdown with you. How many people inside the building? I can imagine it's quite a terrifying moment right now.

WINGROVE: Yes. Where we are right now there's maybe 18 of us or so. It's mostly journalists. There are a few members of parliament including one young woman, an MP named (inaudible) who has her young baby. She's holding her infant here. Both are safe but they were sitting here. So who knows how many people were left in the rest of the building.

I can about a dozen and a half people in front of me. These have been the journalists that were sort of in center block at the time when things happened. It's a very quiet time, you know, first thing in the morning. Things don't tend to quite pick up at that time. It wasn't that busy in terms of journalists and public. It was more of MPs and staff, so I can't say really how many people are in the building still.

WALKER: You spoke about the shooter coming through the main door of the main parliament building and this is the entrance that the members of parliament used but it's not really used for the public. Talk to me about the security there then. Were there no armed security guards? What exactly is the situation that somebody armed with a gun is able to run through this entrance that's reserved for the members of parliament?

WINGROVE: Well, it looks -- you know, all indications are it came through that entrance. It seemed to start there and move down. He didn't come through the west wing, other reporters saying he didn't come through the east wing so that leaves that as the only option. This is an open door and there are armed guards, many armed guards that guard it on a daily basis. But there's no metal detector or anything and if you flash your valid pass, this is the way you go in. This is the door I use, frankly.

And so this appears to have been the entry point just based on the witness accounts. Again, I didn't see it with my own eye, I can't say for sure. But it appears he came in through this and I can say there's no metal detector if you wanted to go in there you could.

WALKER: Josh, how many shots did you hear? Did you hear any shots that were fired inside?

WINGROVE: I heard dozens of shots fired. I couldn't tell you how many. As you can imagine, like any parliament building across the world, there are a lot of armed guards so I heard some loud bangs at the beginning, initially. I sort ducked my head around and thought "What was that?" And then sort of -- the pace of gunfire picked up as I presume as other officers drew their weapons. And as I say, it sort of moved down the hallway, moved down the hallway where there was that sort of altercation that I witnessed with regards to one body. I can't tell whether it was male or female down there. So yes, that's what I've seen so far.

WALKER: Ok. So if you're just joining us, we want to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world about what is happening right now in Ottawa. A lockdown situation on Parliament Hill, this is where all the parliament buildings are located in the capital.

We're talking to Josh Wingrove, a local journalist there who is actually inside the main parliament building that is currently on lockdown. He says right now, he's in a room with about 18 other journalists and a member of parliament. From his account and from the information that he is getting from the witnesses multiple shots fired, dozens of shots fired. That's the word from Josh Wingrove inside this main parliament building.

You are taking a look at it right now on the right side of your screen; an active shooter there as police try to hunt down the shooter in Ottawa at this time right now in Ottawa.

And Josh I want to bring you back in because on Friday, Canada quietly raised its terror threat level from low to medium and what happened there was there was an incident where Canadian police say a driver tried to run down two soldiers in Quebec Province one soldier was killed in this incident and from what I understand, this what we're seeing right now, began just before 10:00 a.m. at the Canadian war memorial. Is that correct?

WINGROVE: That's what my understanding is. Now that memorial is half a block from the building I'm in so I don't know whether that was the same shooter or a different shooter. We have had, as you mentioned, an incident if Quebec, what we know from that is that a young Canadian guy who recently converted to Islam had been radicalized in the words of Canadian authorities. Appeared to sort of have laid in wait, set a trap of some kind at a building where he saw two officers -- soldiers and he ran them down with his car. One of the soldiers has died; one remains in hospital. The suspect was eventually chased and shot and has since died himself.

Authorities have been talking to this man and arrested in (inaudible) airport in July suspecting that he was going abroad to fight some sort of jihadi war. But they said they didn't have enough authority to -- they didn't have enough grounds to arrest him actually so they let him go then. So that's the context here.

It comes from Canada's -- in a big debate over how much power we want to give to law enforcement. The tension between civil liberties and surveillance, all this comes right now just minutes before the attack. I was interviewing the Justice Minister of Canada who said they were looking at changing the law, give authorities more power to put people under house arrest basically some kind of (inaudible) even if they didn't have enough to charge them. He said that, walked inside the room where all the government MPs are meeting and minutes later gunfire broke out.

WALKER: Right now, though, isn't this a country on edge with the terror threat level being raised? I have to ask you, what did that mean? If the terror threat level was raised from low to medium, Josh, would that have translated to more security on Parliament Hill?

WINGROVE: Well, if there was I didn't notice it. We don't follow the -- that level as much as I would imagine. It might be followed in other countries. It's not a front page item. Obviously the attack on Monday in Quebec has been an incredibly large news event and this, of course, is the day here.

It's hard to say what the mood will be on it. Certainly in the last few days and increasingly with this debate over how to handle homegrown terror threats, as it were. The government's caught criticism on Monday when they stood up and said that this incident in Quebec which, again, was a radicalized guy who had run down two officers, they called it a potential terror act and they sort of were accused of maybe jumping to conclusion there is but it certainly appears the guy in that case was on the radar for some time.

What is the case with this particular ordeal? It's too soon to say. We're still in lockdown. We've had no real official word on anything. I'm just sort of sitting in center block as they appear to continue to search the building to make sure it's safe.

WALKER: Well Josh, we do want to update you and our viewers around the world who are watching right now. We are seeing a tweet from the verified account of Bob Zimmer who is a member of parliament for Prince George Peace River and he's tweeting that there were shots fired inside the main parliament building and that the lone gunman is deceased. And he's saying, Bob Zimmer, this member of parliament that "We are okay."

Are you seeing any movement on that end in terms of this lockdown possibly being lifted if, indeed, this lone gunman as a member of parliament has tweeted is dead?

WINGROVE: Yes. I have no sign that they've lifted anything. Bob Zimmer is a member of the governing party. His party's caucus room was very close to where it happened. In other words, where they were they would have heard the gunshots and been in lockdown almost immediately, it was a private meeting and closed to the public. And so that's sort of the context on that.

All I know from where I'm standing is we're still in lockdown. We haven't been told anything and haven't been really moved anywhere. We're still inside the building. It certainly looks like no one else is being let into the building. I can imagine that that's going to be locked down for some time.

Again, this is right in the heart of the capital, the iconic building on a day, at a time when almost all the MPs would have been in the building. So it's really a -- an event that's left a lot of people shaken certainly. It's hard to know what to say.

WALKER: The gunman coming through the main door, the door that is typically used by the members of parliament and shooting his gun, opening fire in the foyer before moving through the hallways as you report, Josh, as you gather this information from the witnesses there s on the ground as well.

If the gunman is standing in the foyer or at the main entrance and just indiscriminately shooting as witnesses are reporting because you said you heard dozens of shots fired inside the main parliament building, how crowded is this area? How many people could be in the area in the line of fire?

WINGROVE: Well, at this time of day, it's not as crowded as it would be particularly, you know, in summertime midday when the tourist season is high as when it's most packed. I would venture a guess that the vast majority of the shots I heard were from law enforcement and not the suspect. In other words, there were a lot of security as there are. This is not a lightly-guarded building.

WALKER: Josh, let me interrupt there because -- I'm sorry Josh, my apologies but we are getting reports now that possibly more shots have been fired inside the building where you are locked down. Are you hearing anything?

WINGROVE: I'm not hearing anything, no.

WALKER: Ok. If you are just joining us, we want to update you on this breaking news situation out of Ottawa, Canada. Those are the pictures, live pictures there on the screen where the parliament buildings, Parliament Hill currently on lockdown. Police have swarmed the area after reports of an active shooter.

This all apparently started just before 10:00 a.m. local time when a person with a gun shot reportedly a Canadian soldier at the Canadian War Memorial which is located very close to these parliament buildings. And witnesses say they saw this armed person running towards parliament hill and from what we are hearing from Josh Wingrove, a local journalist there currently on lockdown inside this main building that had been cordoned off, this gunman entered through the main entrance, I should say person with a gun, we don't know if it's he or she, but the person entered through the main entrance of the main parliament building and started to just open fire. But you can see from the map here how close that war memorial is to parliament hill.

But again, Josh Wingrove who is on the line, a local journalist there who is inside the main parliament building on lockdown with about 18 other people along with another member of parliament, they're being told to stay away from windows and to keep a low profile as police go, really just comb the area inch by inch to secure this building.

But again, Josh Wingrove on the line telling us that this person armed with a gun began shooting after entering through the main door of the parliament building and this is a door that's reserved for the members of parliament. They typically have a pass. There is no medical -- excuse me -- no metal detector and the suspect was able to just walk right through there, start shooting indiscriminately, as Josh Wingrove said that he heard himself as a journalist, dozens of shots fired inside this main parliament building. Then the gunman walked through this building shooting indiscriminately towards the library.