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DR. DREW

Life or Death for Jodi Arias?; Sentencing of Jodi Arias; 18-Year Old Faking Her Own Abduction

Aired October 21, 2014 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Good evening, everybody. Thank you, Nancy. My co-host, of course, Samantha Schacher, here with me.

And the story that is driving social media tonight, life or death for convicted, already convicted killer Jodi Arias. She planned and carried

out the grisly murder of her ex-boyfriend, Travis Alexander.

Let us for a second look back at that trial, which is going to be relived for that poor family again.

But let`s take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TRAVIS ALEXANDER: Certainly the best times are when we just go for a frigging romp session. Just like go forever.

JODI ARIAS: There have been a few times where I`ve been bold enough to just pull you on to the bed and start.

He wanted me to dress up in a school girl`s outfit with braids. Sometimes no underwear, sometime with the Spidies, with Spiderman --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You never told us that you had a knife there, did you?

ARIAS: No. I wasn`t asked.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, I see. What you`re saying is, now he has the knife with him, right? Now, that`s what you`re saying. He`s got the knife.

ARIAS: I didn`t say that either.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you crying when you were shooting?

ARIAS: I don`t remember.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you crying when you were stabbing him?

ARIAS: I don`t remember.

If I get permission, I would like to implement the recycling program. To this, I can hardly believe that I was capable of such violence, but I know

that I was. And for that, I`m going to be sorry for the rest of my life.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PINSKY: Joining us, Karamo Brown, host of #OWNShow on Oprah.com, Anahita Sedaghatfar from AnahitaLaw.com, and Evy Poumpouras, law enforcement

analyst, former Secret Service special agent.

But, first, I want to go out to CNN correspondent Ted Rowlands who is in Phoenix.

Ted, can you tell us how Jodi looked and acted today?

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I tell you what, Drew, she seemed very unaffected. No emotion at all. She sat at the very end of her table.

There were a lot of photos displayed today. She didn`t look at any of them. She didn`t show any reaction.

Normally -- last time around, you would see reaction from her and she would stare down jurors Try to make a connection. None of that today. She

seemed really to be in her own little world at the end of the courtroom.

PINSKY: And how about Travis` family? How did they seem to you? When I think about them going through this again, they were so traumatized by the

first trial. Here they are again. Were they all here?

ROWLANDS: Yes. And this is the toughest day because of the all of the photos shown to the jury. Juan Martinez, first, hey were the detective

that`s retrieved the photos and then the crime scene photos and they were in tears for the better half of the day.

And jurors did take notice. They looked over and saw that the family was there and saw the pain that the family was going through.

PINSKY: And the makeup of the jury, Ted. Anything stand out for you?

ROWLANDS: Well, 12 women, six men. Of course that includes the alternates. So there are 18 that will hear the case. Only 12 will end up

deliberating but more women than men, double, 12-6. So interesting, you can read whatever you want into it but there are more women than men.

PINSKY: All right. Ted, thank you so much. We will keep in touch with you, of course, because we need to hear exactly what your eyes and here`s

are experiencing in that courtroom.

Anahita, you first. You have been there. A few of my panelists are regular panelists now -- with were not with us during the Jodi trial.

ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, ATTORNEY: Right.

PINSKY: So, let me get right to it, Anahita. Is she getting the death penalty? Yes or no.

SEDAGHATFAR: I don`t think she`s going to get the death penalty, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Send your hate mail to Anahita Sedaghatfar right now.

SEDAGHATFAR: Start tweeting me. Thanks, Dr. Drew. I`ll CC you on that.

But, no, you know, I predicted in the first trial that she was not going to get the death penalty. I`m going to predict the same thing again, because,

Dr. Drew, if you look at what happened before, you had 12 jurors that unanimously convicted her of first-degree murder. You had 12 jurors that

agree it was the cruelest form of murder in the aggravation phase.

But yet, there were still four holdouts. Four of those jurors could not put Jodi Arias to death. And I think that in large part, that`s due to the

fact that Jodi Arias took stand. She was able to humanize herself.

So, even though the jurors hated her, they thought she was a liar. They thought she was a murderer. They still formulated some time bond I guess

with her. And it`s much harder to put someone to death when you feel you know them.

PINSKY: And, Evy, I see you nodding yes as well. Of course, you watched the video of today`s show. What do you make of this?

EVY POUMPOURAS, SECURITY EXPERT: I agree with Anahita, and that when you have to look at someone and, you know, you have to see them and look them

in the eyes, it`s very different. You know, often that happens, even our interactions with people. We`ll talk about something. We`ll be angry with

someone and I`m going to say this and I`m going to say that.

But then that moment when you lock eyes with an individual, things change. You see them as a human being. She took the stand. She`s spoken. They`ve

seen her cry. They`ve seen her family. They`ve seen all these different things.

And the interesting thing is, and, Anahita, correct me if I`m wrong on this, but if they dead lock again, then the option of the death penalty

pretty much goes away. At that point, it`s either she gets 25 -- she gets life or she gets 25 years and then the possibility of parole, so to speak.

SEDAGHATFAR: You`re absolutely right. If they deadlock again, it goes to the judge to make the decision for the sentencing.

PINSKY: All right. Got it.

Samantha, you want to say something here?

SAMANTHA SCHACHER, CO-HOST: Yes, she is so manipulative and so calculated. We`re seeing it even now in court when she has her chair lowered all way

down so she can look very meek, very fragile to all of the jurors.

And may -- I`m so glad that the prosecution, that they flashed that photo of Travis Alexander`s throat slit open from ear to ear, may we remind these

jurors that not only did she nearly decapitate him, she shot him in the face and she stabbed him 30 times. She is monstrous.

PINSKY: A couple things. Karamo, I go to you in a second. But get my whole panel up here.

There`s a couple of things. Sam, first of all, I would want to show that picture to the HLN audience forever because it tells the tale of violence.

The picture -- maybe one of these days, I`ll just describe it to you. Not tonight.

But it is -- the violence with which this woman acted out on poor Travis is, that picture just tells it all. It is too gruesome to show on TV.

But, Anahita -- excuse me, Evy, you were laughing at what people were saying about the manipulativeness of Anahita. What Sam was saying about

her manipulativeness. You`re new to this trial. She is a very manipulative woman.

POUMPOURAS: You know what, I`m actually laughing because I`m proud of Sam. She said something about the chair being lowered. That`s actually a tactic

that is huge. When did I interviews and interrogations on people, I would raise my chair higher than the person I was interrogating or interviewing

to make them feel less than, I was superior to them.

So, Jodi is doing the flip side where she is manipulating her environment, lowering the chair, making herself look small and meek. Fragile.

PINSKY: She is very brilliant. But -- I want to get Karamo a second here -- but, Anahita, when I bring you back to talk in a few moments, you would

say you got to do anything to save this woman`s life if you`re defending her. But forget -- hold that. We get Karamo.

Karamo, the whole time these ladies were talking, I can see you saying, oh, no, I can kill her, no problem. But I`ll be honest with you. I would have

trouble. I have trouble with the death penalty, and I would have a problem.

What do you say?

SCHACHER: She deserves it.

KARAMO BROWN, #OWNSHOW: I do not have trouble with it at all. This woman is manipulative, callous. What she did, she deserves the death penalty 100

percent.

Everyone needs to understand what this woman did -- cutting this man`s throat, stabbing him, shooting him. No one does.

Anahita was saying that she would see more human. There is nothing human about this woman. This is an animal, an animal that killed a man in cold

blood, and she deserves the death penalty 100 percent.

PINSKY: I see how this trial is going to go. Karamo, everybody, hold your thought.

Next up, Jodi`s former flame. Remember Abe Abdelhadi? He joins us again. He`s going to give us some thoughts. And one of the so-called Dr. Drew`s

jurors is back in the courtroom today and giving us her thoughts.

And later, a teen fakes her own kidnapping for fun, everybody. We`ll get into that after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: You make me so horny. I seriously think about having sex with you every day.

ALEXANDER: I`m so glad we started (EXPLETIVE DELETED)

ARIAS: When we took a bath together --

ALEXANDER: Uh-huh.

ARIAS: That was surreal.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just show me. That`s what I`m asking you to do. Without talking, show me the pose.

ARIAS: He got down like that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: I remember all these images.

Back with Sam in our behavior bureau. Wendy Walsh, psychologist, author of "The 30-Day Love Detox", Erica America, psychotherapist and television

host, and Danine Manette, criminal investigator, author of "The Ultimate Betrayal".

All right. Danine, let`s start with you, instead of finishing with you. Life or death for Jodi?

DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: Well, I`m surprised the prosecution is still going for the death penalty in this case, regardless of whether or

not people feel that she deserves it.

It`s not like the jury hung 11-1 or 10-2. They hung 8-4 which is a significant divide between the panelists on the jury. So, I`m kind of

surprised because that was at a time when the emotions were high and when everything was new and fresh, and people were very repulsed by the

testimony and evidence that was presented. And 12 people still couldn`t get together and come up with death.

So, unless we have 12 Karamo (ph) on the jury, I don`t see it happening. I really don`t.

PINSKY: But, Sam, as I recall, a lot of this was -- the family really wanting this. The family wants a death penalty for her.

SCHACHER: Yes, absolutely, Dr. Drew. I want to see what the family wants. I mean, they have been through the ringer. This has been a complete circus

from the start. They have watched her change her testimony, change her defense from the very beginning.

Remember first, she wasn`t even there. Then, it was these two random intruders that killed Travis Alexander, and oh, poor me, I got away.

PINSKY: Oh, and they gave her PTSD.

SCHACHER: Of course, exactly.

PINSKY: All her psychiatric symptoms are because the ninjas came in.

SCHACHER: Of course. And then, it was, oh, I`m suffering from battered women syndrome, which is demeaning the poor victims of real domestic

violence out there, which is also maligning Travis Alexander`s name. And now, it`s mental illness. So, which is it? My heart breaks for this

family.

PINSKY: Joining me, a man whose name first came to our attention during this phone sex recording. Have a listen here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARIAS: I know you don`t like Abe.

ALEXANDER: Yes, well, he`s soulless. He`s like at the top of the list.

ARIAS: I wouldn`t call him soulless. I would call him like focused.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Well, my focused soulless guest, Abe Abdelhadi, was a colleague of Travis and dated Jodi one fine night in Pasadena.

Abe, what do you think will happen to Jodi?

ABE ABDELHADI, DATED JODI (via telephone): I think she will get the death penalty. I think what`s going to happen here is because the emotions will

be low and you won`t have a bunch of guys hoping to get a dream date with her when the trial is over, you`re going to see a lot more -- don`t argue

me. I`m right here.

And what`s going to happen is you`re going to do is get a lot more clarity that she didn`t have the first couple of times and these guys knew what

they signed up for, and they went ahead and checked because they couldn`t put little Jodi to death because she was so cute and blond and everything.

So, yes --

PINSKY: Abe, remind people what that dream date was like that you had with her.

ABDELHADI: It was a lot of fun. We had a great time. She wasn`t crazy at that point. I didn`t know she was going to kill anybody. So, it was fun.

She was -- I would say she was ethically nebulous when we started talking about religion. You don`t dabble in Mormonism if you`re telling me that

you`re shopping for a new faith.

So it was kind of like -- I knew something was a little weird but she was a little pretentious and kind of pseudo arty. She wasn`t going through the

whole psycho Charles Manson stare and not blinking. She was just a girl in her mid-20s who was a little bit pretentious and that was about it.

We knew each other a few months before we went out. We knew each other for quite a long time after we had gone out, and there was some unnecessary

drama because of that. And, you know, come to find out that she was unhinged in a lot of ways, and unfortunately, a guy paid for it with his

life.

People had asked me in the past what I thought about Travis` comments and all I can simply say is number one, God rest his soul. I can`t be mad at a

guy who it`s that passed away and also I can`t be made at a guy who had a lying girlfriend. I`ve gone through a few of those. Not the first time a

guy is operating on bad intelligence.

PINSKY: All right. Abe, thank you so much, buddy. We`ll see you soon, no doubt.

Erica, prosecutor Juan Martinez told today`s death penalty jurors that her borderline personality disorder is what, she was -- if you remember DeMarco

(ph) got up and gave the objective data. She did neuropsychiatric testing on her and she met clear criteria for borderline personality. So, that`s

not a debatable point. What she has, it was proven in those studies.

But he made an interesting statement. He said borderline is not a mental illness and he made a parallel with someone being a jerk, which isn`t a

mental illness. In other words, borderline is like being a sort of nasty person. What do you say?

ERICA AMERICA, PSYCHOTHERAPIST/TV HOST: No. Absolutely don`t agree.

OK, personality disorders are mental illnesses but they`re longstanding and enduring patterns of behavior that start around adolescence and get worst

and worst and worst, and usually get to be the worst around the 40s and 50s. So, yes, they are harder to treat like bipolar disorder or OCD, which

respond better to medication alone.

Unfortunately, psychotherapy and particularly, DBT, dialectical behavior therapy, is the best thing, it takes a long time and it takes helping

people regulate their emotions, learn how to express themselves again, because they have some intense fear of abandonment that is so intense,

that, you know, maybe when she found out that he was going to leave, that`s why she killed him. It literally like the bottom fell out for her.

So, I really don`t agree that yes, personality disorders are different than the other mental disorders, but they absolutely are mental illness and her

behavior is because of borderline personality disorder.

PINSKY: Wendy, I see you nodding your head vigorously. He does have a point. To somebody who is untrained, somebody who had borderline, may just

feel like a nasty person or a jerk as he put it.

WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I think the difference is, Dr. Drew, is that if you were going to use a biological metaphor, it would be, he`s kind

of basically saying, look, she didn`t catch a cold. She doesn`t have a virus. She is clearly not sick.

No, she has a chronic long term illness, OK? It`s a little bit different.

PINSKY: Yes, she has like asthma or something long term.

But let me ask you, Wendy, are men going to learn something from this case you think?

WALSH: I sure hope men can learn something. And that is simple. If you don`t get to know a woman`s emotional life, their emotional perspective on

your relationship, guess what? While they`re having a wild and crazy orgasm, Dr. Drew, they could be plotting to kill you. Seriously.

PINSKY: What?

WALSH: There is a message here to men.

PINSKY: Explain. How do men know that?

WALSH: Well, if they don`t take time to watch for those personality red flags -- you know, I hear guys say all the time. Oh, my God she was so

crazy but she was great in bed. And they will think with their little brain, as I like to say, when the blood flows south, another brain takes

over.

And so, when they think with that little brain, they`re stopping and they can be putting themselves in grave danger if truly the person really is a

sociopath or has a personality disorder.

PINSKY: Quickie, guys, I want to introduce our friend, Katie Wick. She was one of the Dr. Drew jurors during the guilt phase of the first death

penalty trial.

Katie, thanks for joining us. Do you think Jodi is likely to get a fair trial this go-around? Do you think she`ll get the death penalty?

KATIE WICK, DR. DREW`S JUROR: Hi, thanks for having me, Dr. Drew. Good talking with you.

PINSKY: You bet.

WICK: I do think she`s going to get a fair trial. I have no doubt in my mind, since the hung jury, I`ve spoken with multiple people in Phoenix

where the trial is being held. That has no clue who Jodi was.

And just a quick comment -- I hear a lot of people saying, I realize there`s been a lot of time that has passed since the hung jury. And the

public is tired. People think the state shouldn`t be paying the money to do this.

But the facts have not change. And a lot of people are saying this -- Juan Martinez needs to throw the towel in. And I disagree.

They say it isn`t the typical death penalty because there weren`t multiple victims and there wasn`t torture. I`m sorry, but yes, there are victims.

Travis` family are victims. His friends are victims and anybody who wants to say Travis Alexander was not tortured, they`re obviously not looking at

the same pictures I am. And if the definition of death penalty qualifies within a dictionary, Jodi Arias` face should be right next to it.

PINSKY: Katie, thank you so much.

Panel, thank you.

Next up, one of Travis Alexander`s friends is here. She is an intuitive who had warned him about the blond woman in this picture, Jodi,

And later, a Craigslist prank goes horribly for a teen who actually staged her own abduction. Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JURY FOREMAN: I did come down on the side of life. I do believe that he verbally and mentally abused her, not an excuse, and believe, I`m not

painting Jodi Arias as a sympathetic figure.

REPORTER: You to9ld me two weeks sago that you`d rather die than go to jail for life, go to prison for life. Was that a lie?

ARIAS: No. I meant that when I said it.

REPORTER: So what happened?

ARIAS: Well, the same day I was convicted I received a visit from my family and one of my cousins really drove it home for me and told me how

much it would affect them.

REPORTER: So you didn`t do it for you. You did it for them.

ARIAS: I did, because I felt like asking for death is like asking for assisted suicide.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: That interview was from KSAZ FOX 10 in Phoenix.

I am back with Sam, Karamo, Anahita and Evy.

That was after her conviction. Jodi Arias said death would be, quote, "the ultimate freedom."

Karamo, yet she seemed to change her mind. What do you think?

BROWN: I think she is manipulative and she is delusional and there are so many things wrong with this woman. I mean, every time I watch her, my

heart hurts for this family and I get disgusted and more and more angry, because I can just look at her.

I was watching the interview with her and she at not one point said that I am sorry. She says she`s sorry for what happened but she is not sorry to

the family.

That just tells me that she is manipulative and that she does not care about what she did. Give her the death penalty.

PINSKY: Yes, empathic failure sort of the -- that`s the other thing you`ll final her picture after in the dictionary, Sam.

SCHACHER: Yes, and not only that, Dr. Drew, she was so brazen she was even like her stalker tendency. She never apologized for anything. If she

would sneak into Travis Alexander`s home, she would then, oh, chill on his couch, to go bed shelf didn`t care if he found her the next morning.

If she were following him on the freeway and she saw him get off on the exit to go to somebody`s house that he was dating, she`d call him up and

go, wrong exit. And he would look in the rear view mirror and there she would be. She did not care whatsoever with who she was.

PINSKY: And, Evy, you know, Wendy said some disturbing things in the last segment about women planning to kill their partner during a sexual

encounter, but there are things a guy can look at and go, oh, this is not good, like such a stalking behaviors. That`s a terribly bad sign.

POUMPOURAS: You know what? I do agree with you. I was a little bit bothered somewhat with what Wendy said because she made about it gender and

it`s not, OK? But there are men who kill women and there are women who kill men.

It`s not about gender. It`s about that person`s character and demeanor.

Now, with regard to giving the death penalty, I feel that the family really wants this because they want closure in a way that they want to go -- they

want to move forward with their lives. And I think Jodi Arias has become almost like this big celebrity status. And I think that they`re having a

very hard time moving forward with their lives. It`s a psychological thing, almost closing that door.

PINSKY: Yes. And Jodi`s lawyers plan to call more mental health experts to the stand this time. This is now the defense.

Anahita, what are they up to? And is that a good or a bad idea?

SEDAGHATFAR: Well, they have to, Dr. Drew. I mean, her life is on the line. They have to do everything they can to save her.

But, you know, I think that they should have offered her a plea deal, Dr. Drew, because remember, it wasn`t one holdout. You`re talking about four

jurors that couldn`t sentence her to death despite the fact that they thought she was a premeditated killer, OK?

So, yes, I think they`ll put out all the stop. I think Jodi is going to testify. She`s going to be on the stand for as long as possible, because

the goal once again is to try to humanize herself in the eyes of the jury. And if one of those jurors feels some type of sympathy for her, then she`s

not going to get the death penalty.

PINSKY: Anahita, you remind me to remind our viewers that we will be here covering this trial when she gets on the stand. We will be covering. We

will be reporting to you. This is going to go on for a while.

SEDAGHATFAR: Oh, yes.

PINSKY: And we will try to report it as best we can. Whatever we`re seeing, what our people are seeing in the courtroom, and then, of course,

our panelist will discuss.

Evy, you wanted to comment here.

POUMPOURAS: You know, Dr. Drew, I`m seeing a lot of these tweets going out, that she should get the death penalty, that she lied, that she should

be, you know, given the penalty, and all these things.

I want to point out, giving the death penalty is a very serious thing. We shouldn`t take it lightly.

And, you know, looking at the research, they haven`t come up with a conclusive -- as far as conclusion so to speak on whether the death penalty

help reduce crime overall.

PINSKY: Yes.

POUMPOURAS: I think in this case, it`s more about the family and, you know, more of their mental well being from that angle.

PINSKY: And yet, Evy, Karamo has got an axe in his hand right now.

BROWN: I do have an ax.

And, Evy, you know, I respect you and love you so much but, unfortunately, I disagree. Right now, with this, her getting the death penalty is not

just going to soothe the family. It`s going to sooth everyone in America to know that this crazy delusional woman is off the streets and that

justice has been served. She needs to receive the death penalty. Those four people who said that she doesn`t need to receive it were manipulated

by her.

PINSKY: Anahita, go ahead.

SEDAGHATFAR: That`s incorrect and I take issue with that statement because --

PINSKY: And, Anahita, all the mental health professionals were manipulated by her. The jurors were under her spell. All these grown adults got

swayed by --

(CROSSTALK)

SEDAGHATFAR: We talked about this in the make-up room, Dr. Drew. I thought that was a stretch by the prosecution the first time around, to

suggest that she was able to manipulate all of these mental health professionals who have been in the field for 30 years.

Let me just touch on what Karamo just said. Justice in this case is not necessarily Jodi Arias getting the death penalty. OK, and a lot of people

share that sentiment. But justice in this case is those jurors getting in that courtroom like the previous jurors did. Listening to the facts,

listening to the evidence, deliberating and coming up with some type of conclusion. That conclusion may be that they can`t come to an agreement.

.

PINSKY: I need to bring in our guests, Sam. I hate to interrupt you. Joining us, Julie Christopher. She was Travis` friend. She is an

intuitive who had warned him about Jodi before his murder. Julie, what do you think Travis would want Jodi`s punishment to be?

JULIE CHRISTOPHER, FRIEND OF TRAVIS ALEXANDER: Well, Dr. Drew, you know, it is interesting because to me she is that - it`s just someone with a rock

instead of a heart and I think she is playing reverse psychology. I think that Travis is not still at peace, to be honest with you. And this is not

resolved. Mentally, spiritually, physically we`re still all grieving. I think Jodi is very manipulative. I think she is pure ugliness from the

inside out. Someone who knows her - She is ugly, Dr. Drew. Ugly. And this is someone who is going to go down, death penalty or not, we`re still

paying for it. You know, we are here in Arizona, still paying for her to eat, to sleep, and to open her, what she wants to do, a book store? Like

what she said -- she`s selling her shirts. I mean come on.

PINSKY: It bother you.

CHRISTOPHER: This is completely ridiculous.

PINSKY: As an Arizona citizen it bothers you. Sam, you question for Julie.

SCHACHER: Yeah, not only that, she just wants all the attention. Even if she`s behind bars. But yeah, my - the question to you is you knew Jodi

Arias and you obviously knew Travis really well. Did you ever witness Jodi, and this is just very simply speaking about her character. But I

think it tells a lot. The fact that she could never really own up to anything? Even if it was just about something so trivial? Would she

somehow twist it and never take any sort of accountability? Even the smallest amount of thing?

CHRISTOPHER: Do you know what? Jodi is Jodi. The way I know her from the beginning, very stoic, like I said. Someone with no emotion. You can read

- you can`t - you couldn`t read Jodi. She was always distant of Travis. As a matter of fact, everybody wondered, is she with Travis or not with

Travis? And a couple of times Travis said to me, you know what, she is nothing to me. We`re not in a relationship. You know, he didn`t see a

future with her. So from day one, we knew that she was on him and stalking him. I mean this is someone who needs to be behind bars. Because she is

not right. And - and honestly, I want her to be behind bars so she isn`t after anybody else.

PINSKY: Julie, I`m going to interrupt you once again. I`m so sorry. Thank you for joining us. We have a lot to get to tonight. Next up, Jodi

is dominating Twitter and Facebook. We will look at your post after the break and later, what was this teenager thinking when she put an ad on

Facebook that could have gotten her killed? Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What would Travis want? Would he want Jodi to be put to death?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whatever happened to mercy? To commit such a crime as that must have been provoked out of her mind.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Slashing his throat, cutting him 29 times and putting a bullet in his head. That is overkill!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jodi should get the death penalty. She chose her faith. She did what she did and now she needs to answer for it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m on the side of both of these families who have suffered from her actions. I think she should get life in prison without

any possibility of parole to save pain to her family.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Alive, Jodi can live with purpose in prison. She can give back. She has talent, she is literate, she is artistic, she can teach

others. If given death, there is no opportunity for redemption.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Sam of the behavior bureau, Wendy, Erica, Danine. No live cameras in the courtroom this time, but trial watchers are getting

their fix on Twitter and social media. One of our Twitter followers tweeted this. "People are mistaking mental illness for evil." And so the

question is, and by the way, somebody - do you have that down to Mars thing? That is very distressing to me. The people put words in our mouth.

Will you stop it everybody, and just listen to what we`re saying? When we say something, listen to the words. Disgusted with you for entertaining

the idea that borderline isn`t an illness. Just a way to define her. I didn`t say that that is what the attorney said in the courtroom, we took

specifically issue with it. So please, stop attacking us when we are discussing things that happened in the courtroom. Obviously, when -

something look that. Now, the question is, is that - is she also evil? Should the punishment be different? Danine?

MANETTE: Can I clear up something about the death penalty, Dr. Drew, real quick?

PINSKY: You bet.

MANETTE: I`ve seen so many tweets saying that we should not continue to house her in jail. And it`s so expensive, we should just go ahead and kill

her. Look, in California, in Arizona, in an awful lot of states, most people on death row die of old age. There is so much of a process that is

- that when someone .

PINSKY: And it is expensive.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: It`s expensive.

MANETTE: It`s expensive, there is appeal after appeal. It takes decades. And that`s far more expensive often time to put someone to death in a state

like Arizona and California, than it is other places maybe like Texas. So we need to stop thinking that this is an easy way out. Just killing her.

That`s actually the more expensive route and she probably is going to die in jail any way.

PINSKY: Wendy, do you want to talk about the borderline and evil - and the stigma that`s around borderline disorders already? And then Jodi making it

worse?

WALSH: Well, first of all, anyone who commits murder is evil. But that doesn`t mean that they`re not also mentally ill. And frankly I think most

people who commit murder have some kind of mental problem, right?

PINSKY: Yeah, that`s right.

WALSH: That`s why they`re committing murder.

PINSKY: That`s right.

WALSH: So to call these two distinct things is different. I think what people are hearing, Dr. Drew, is that as soon as we try to explain it

through mental illness or personality disorder .

PINSKY: Yes. They think it will excuse .

WALSH: They think it will excuse - they think we`re forgiving them. PINSKY: Right.

WALSH: We are not.

PINSKY: But it cuts both ways. Although the problem is, if we`re trying to explain it, to understand it we`re thought of as excusing it.

But then, if we discuss it and give it a name, we stigmatize people that have these conditions. Erica. It is a tough line to walk, isn`t it?

AMERICA: It`s a tough line to walk, but I mean - I go for the life in prison. And just personally, I am not into the death penalty. I think

it`s - I`m not an eye for an eye. I believe in forgiveness. I believe - I also think that just killing her while the family or people online and

Twitter may think that the family will feel 100 percent better once she`s killed .

PINSKY: They may not. They may not.

AMERICA: I don`t know - they may not feel better.

PINSKY: Yeah.

AMERICA: So, it`s really not about that.

PINSKY: OK. I have to interrupt. Sam. You`ve got more reaction.

SCHACHER: Oh, my gosh.

PINSKY: We`ve got tons of stuff to .

SCHACHER: So much reaction.

PINSKY: Yeah.

SCHACHER: I want to start with a rather funny tweet from John Wisnuski (ph). He says, Dr. Drew, do you have a model of little brain as well?

Referring to the little brain.

(LAUGHTER)

PINSKY: That`s the Wendy mentioned.

(LAUGHTER)

SCHACHER: Wendy mentioned. I`m all for that. I think that would be hilarious. OK, and then going .

PINSKY: That`s for the Christmas show.

(LAUGHTER)

SCHACHER: OK. All right. From Arnold, "If she gets death, she`ll get too much attention per year. She lives for attention. If she gets life, we`ll

all forget her."

PINSKY: Oh, I`m not sure. I make - that can go either way. But go ahead, what else you got?

SCHACHER: Yeah, OK, from chair - there will be one male on the jury that Jodi will make eye contact with and that will be all it takes and he will

spare her life. Do you guys agree?

PINSKY: Danine really agrees. Danine, there are more women potentially, although we don`t know what the make-up is the jury versus the alternates.

It seems that there may be more women on this jury.

MANETTE: I agree that if there is one male on the jury. Because males have that protective instinct. And I think that if one of them will

connect with her, that`s all it`s going to take. Is for one person to just see her as some type of, you know, something that needs to be saved .

PINSKY: Listen, confession. As a man, I have more difficult - as I fantasize about being on the jury, I will have more difficulty sending a

woman to a death penalty than a male. And I have a problem with death penalty generally, but especially for .

MANETTE: Well, you fantasize about being on a jury?

PINSKY: No. No, no. No fancy about it.

(LAUGHTER)

PINSKY: That`s my little brain thinking. But go ahead, Sam, what else have you got?

SCHACHER: OK, this one is actually in line with what Wendy tweeted earlier. So, I`m curious to see how Wendy responds. The - If she were a

man we wouldn`t even be having this conversation. The consequence of her crime should be death. That`s exactly what you tweeted earlier, Wendy.

PINSKY: Go ahead, Wendy.

WALSH: Exactly. I think that this has been dragged out because she is female, because she`s attractive. Because there is a great sexual

relationship she had with the victim. And I just don`t think this would have happened if it`d been - if Travis had killed her, for instance.

PINSKY: Danine, last word.

MANETTE: And not only that. I mean because of the fact that he is a big strong handsome man as a victim. If this was a child that was a four-year-

old that had been raped and bludgeoned to death we wouldn`t be thinking .

PINSKY: Oh, my god.

MANETTE: So, also the fact that, you know, people, it is hard for America to see a big strong handsome man as a victim even though he was chopped to

pieces. And that`s sad, but it`s true.

PINSKY: And you heard the juror say, they are a little ambivalent because there was this strange participation, these questions about Travis` own

behavior. That he was hiding from people, that made them feel uncomfortable. It`s many layers to this. We will keep going.

But next up we`re going to talk about a teen who plans and carries out her own kidnapping. She thought it would be fun. Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is Haley Turner`s mug shot. It`s a far cry from the picture that was released when police believe the girl was abducted.

The alleged hoax started Thursday, August 7, around 10:00 in the evening. Haley was talking to a friend on her cell phone while driving home from a

movie rental shop. At Crabb and Dean Road, she said she saw a man lying on the road.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Haley told her friends, she was going to get out of the car and check on him. Seconds later, Haley told her friend, he has a gun

and the phone was disconnected.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After her car was found abandoned, police held the news conference Friday morning. Her mother begged Haley to return no

questions asked. But police officers did after the teen was spotted Friday afternoon 50 miles away.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At one point, during the interview, she told me - wait a minute. I`m confused. It was determined later that she was not telling

the truth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Sam, Anahita, Danine and Karamo. 18-year-old Haley Turner admits she faked the abduction. She told the judge she posted an ad

on Craigslist, "Looking to be abducted and taken away." Sam, help us understand what happened.

SCHACHER: Oh, my gosh, this is such a wild story, Dr. Drew. What motivated her? But this is how it all went down. Haley Turner told family

members, she is going to a local video store. About 30 minutes later she supposedly is driving back home and chatting with a friend on her cell

phone. She tells her friend that she sees a man lying on the side of the road. And she`s going to stop and check on him. Just a few seconds later,

Haley tells the friend, he has a gun and that`s when the phone went dead. And clearly everybody became alarmed at that moment. The following

afternoon, she spotted 50 miles away from where she was reportedly missing. She was holding a puppy and was partially clothed. Now, police interviewed

Haley, but the information she gave them just was not adding up. She even told the investigators that her abductor gave her the puppy to keep her

company. She was ultimately arrested and charged with filing a false police report.

PINSKY: And during Haley`s recent guilty plea in front of a judge, no motive was given for this fake abduction but her Craigslist ad reportedly

indicated she wanted attention and she wrote in part, quote, "It would be fun." So, Karamo, is this a teen prank gone bad or is it something more

sinister going on here?

BROWN: Well, Dr. Drew, can I first say, what is up with all these little white girls on craigslist looking to be abducted and get raped? This is

confusing me. We know something is going on here. For me I work with kids all the time. Any time a kid does something of this nature, I always

think, this is a crime for help or something else? Something else is going on that would make you say I`ve been abducted and have your whole family

worried. I`m questioning that. PINSKY: Yeah, I agree with you. Now during the window, 16 hours that she

was missing. Her mother spoke at a press conference. Take a look at this. Kind of interesting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just want to say, Haley, if you can hear me, just please call us. Please call anybody. We just want you safely home. No

questions asked. We just, we miss you, we love you, we just want you home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Now, Danine, mom`s message is "no questions asked."

MANETTE: All right.

PINSKY: Didn`t that strike you as bizarre? Something is going on here.

MANETTE: A lot of things strike my ear. Number one, the video store. I mean where do you find those these days? Right?

(LAUGHTER)

MANETTE: But also, it is like she doesn`t say whoever it is, let her go. You know, no questions asked. She says, come home. You know, like she`s

talking to her daughter as though she knows that her daughter probably ran off somewhere and she is trying to let her know that she is not going to be

in trouble if she comes back home. That doesn`t sound like a message to an abductor. It sounds like a message to a runaway.

PINSKY: And Anahita, I`m out of time with this block, but after the break, I want to ask you, is she into for big trouble here? Is she going to have

to pay for the expense of all this? What`s going to happen to her? We`ll be back, and also a reminder, you can find us any time on Instagram at Dr.

Drew HLN, because we will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At a press conference in Bedford township this morning, 18-year-old Haley Turner`s mother made an emotional plea.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Haley, if you can hear me, just please call us. Please call anybody.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Approximately 15 minutes ago, we received confirmation that Haley Turner has been located in Ikorsh (ph) Michigan.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now that she`s been found safe, there are plenty of questions about how Turner ended up 40 miles from home. A woman found

Haley standing on a street corner partially clothed, holding a puppy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Sam, Anahita, Danine and Karamo. Haley Turner, she admits she faked her abduction. She pleaded guilty of filing a charge of

causing a false police report. To be filed, she faces up to four years in prison but a plea deal led to expunging the felony from her record.

Reportedly stipulating she must pay $15,000 for the sheriff`s office, for the search effort. So, Anahita, is that appropriate? Just the payment?

Or should there be jail or both?

SEDEGHATFAR: No. I don`t think there should be jail. She pleaded guilty, Dr. Drew. She`s agreed to pay the $15,000 back to law enforcement for all

the resources they spent trying to locate her. We know she was 18 years old. Clearly she has some emotional issues, some mental issues going on.

And I think basically the judge`s just going to order her to undergo some counseling, some therapy. And that`s the most important thing. We need to

get to the bottom of why this girl felt she needed to fake her own kidnapping. Why is she .

PINSKY: Danine?

SEDEGHATFAR: Why is she troubled like that? PINSKY: Danine, you feel not so clear about this?

SEDEGHATFAR: No. I say 30 days in the pokey. And here`s why.

(LAUGHTER)

SEDEGHATFAR: Because number one, you know, we need to send a message to other people that this is a stupid thing to do, to tie up resources like

this because you want some attention.

PINSKY: Is not $15,000 enough for that?

SEDEGHATFAR: No - no, no, no. We need to have some uncomfortable time. We need to have some time away from home in a little - in a hard place.

And number two, she planned this. It is not like she was coming home with a bad report card and she decided, you know what? I`m just not going to go

home I`m going to run away. She planned this. She put this on Craigslist .

PINSKY: Yeah, yeah.

SEDEGHATFAR: You know, she planned it out over a time period, 30 days in the pokey.

PINSKY: Karamo.

BROWN: Was she tested for drugs? I`m wondering that, because I really don`t believe that this young girl needs to go to jail. I don`t agree with

that. She needs counseling, she needs therapy. But if something deeper - I want to know if drugs was involved. You know, I was looking at the

father`s behavior when they were talking during the press conference. He seemed a little sketch to me as well. There is something going on there in

that family, and they need to be investigating that.

PINSKY: He looked kind of sad.

SEDAGHATFAR: Dr. Drew, you always say that a teenager`s brain isn`t fully developed.

PINSKY: Yes. Yes.

SEDEGHATFAR: Pull out your brain. Show us the frontal lobe.

PINSKY: It`s not about the frontal lobe at 18. Thinking of female, it`s a fact that major mental illness comes on in that 18 to 22 age.

SEDEGHATFAR: At that age, right.

PINSKY: It could be mania, it could be schizophrenia, it could be really impaired judgment. All kinds of abnormal impulses. What are they saying

on our Dr. Drew/HLN Facebook page?

SCHACHER: OK, we received over - we received over 500 comments, Dr. Drew, and the reaction is split just like we`ve seen on the panel. And I love

that I just learned that jail is also referred to as pokey.

(LAUGHTER)

SCHACHER: No, just saying.

PINSKY: Well, not since like the 1850s in Cody, California, in the Wild West.

SCHACHER: OK, well, from Lucy she writes, she should do jail time and pay back every cent that was spent to find her. She took time away from others

who really need to be found. This is not a joke. But Heather disagrees. She absolutely does not deserve jail time, she`s a minor and is learning

from life and mistakes. I honestly hope that her antics didn`t hinder other investigations and services to affect other missing children. A

lesson learned in life not prison.

PINSKY: Anahita, do these judges understand when they mandate treatment, how intensive treatment needs to be and how long this takes?

SEDAGHATFAR: Absolutely. The judge has that discretion and I think that`s what the judge will do in this case. Again, she was a young girl. No

priors, presumably. And what`s going on here is a mental issue. Her parents have even come out and said she certainly was struggling with some

emotional issues at that time.

PINSKY: Well, but in spite of that, Danine says still, the pokey! The pokey!

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: All right, speaking of the pokey, I`m going to take a break. We`ll talk about, of course, Jodi again tomorrow. DVR us - DVR us any

time. Then you`ll watch us anytime, "Forensic Files" follows us and it begins immediately.

END