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NEW DAY

Talks on Reforms to Proceed in Hong Kong; Why Didn't Gear Protect Nurses from Ebola?; Ebola is One Reason Behind Dow Plummeting; Amber Vinson Contacted the CDC Before Flying

Aired October 16, 2014 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Thirty minutes past the hour. Here's a look at your headlines:

Hong Kong's chief executive says talks on democratic reforms will go on despite clashes between protesters and police. Talks could begin as early as next week. Overnight, this scene of swarm of demonstrators trying to block a road near the office of the city's embattled leader. Police charge the crowd armed with pepper spray.

At least 17 people are dead following a blizzard and avalanche as it rained down on hikers in Nepal. Searchers are out in helicopters, looking for those that have been stranded or perhaps gotten lost on mountain trails in the Himalayas. Authorities believe that 16 hikers from Israel, Canada and India, so far, have been rescued.

The FDA has approved two new drugs designed to treat a deadly lung disease. These new drugs give new hope to some 100,000 Americans suffering from idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis, a scarring of the lungs that kills many of its victims within five years of diagnosis. The drugs do not provide a cure, but certainly can slow the rate of decline in lung function.

NPH, all right, Neil Patrick Harris has been tapped to host the 87th Academy Awards in February. It's his first time as Oscar host. But, of course, he knows that drill of award shows. He's hosted the Tony Awards four times, the Emmys twice. Some people are saying that he actually could be an Oscar contender as well for his supporting role in the film "Gone Girl". If you've seen it, don't spoil the ending because I'm still reading the book.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Triple threat.

PEREIRA: He really is.

CAMEROTA: I know.

PEREIRA: And funny and warm and nice.

CAMEROTA: What's wrong with him? Is there no chink in the armor we can find?

(LAUGHTER) CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Chance of success?

PEREIRA: I think he'll do great. He's effortless, it's easy for him. He's himself. Just delightful.

CUOMO: Camerota agrees.

CAMEROTA: Well played.

I was giving Chris a little grief because I don't think he pronounces my name correctly.

PEREIRA: He calls you Cameronis.

CAMEROTA: For once.

CUOMO: That's her real name.

CAMEROTA: But he's working on it, which I appreciate. He can change.

CUOMO: I'm all about improvement. I'm waiting for the E.P. to say -- move on. All right. I'm going to beat him to punch.

PEREIRA: Look at what he did.

CUOMO: Let's get to Chad Myers.

Chad, you're keeping track of the forecast. Of course you are. What do we need to know?

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Three big stories today. One, the rain in New York and it's going to get a lot colder by Sunday. So, if you're driving to New York City today, expect delays, flying out of the city will be slow this morning as well. We have a big hurricane, major hurricane in the Atlantic Ocean, not going to hit the United States. That's the second big story.

The high today in New York, only 69 with the cloud cover, 70 in D.C. Here comes the chilly air, pumpkin-picking weather, I called it earlier. Highs only in the 50s in New York City by Sunday. In fact, 53, morning low will be in the 30s.

Here's a second story of the day. Category 4 hurricane Gonzalo, major hurricane headed to Bermuda. Likely about 115 miles per hour as it makes its closest approach to Bermuda, and that will be on Friday.

Second story, second big storm in the water will be Ana, the good news, this thing did not develop. This is the hurricane that's going to move into Hawaii. It did not turn into a hurricane overnight. Still forecast to do so, though. And that will also be Friday night, Hawaiian time, winds about 75 miles per hour.

Chris, back to you.

CUOMO: Good to know, good to know. Hopefully, that misses everything. Chad, thank you very much. Appreciate the update. So, officials at Texas Health Presbyterian, they are apologizing for some of their mistakes. That left two workers infected with Ebola.

Apologies matter, because it indicates change. So now the question is, even though they apologized, do our health officials really know how to protect doctors and nurses from the deadly virus? We have a live demonstration for you that will show just how easy it is to get infected with the recommended gear, these two people are about to show you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: Welcome back to NEW DAY.

A Dallas hospital is pushing back this morning against accusations that it didn't have proper protocols in place while treating Thomas Eric Duncan. The hospital in question, Texas Presbyterian, says accusations from the National Nurses United do not reflect actual facts as they see it and the hospital followed guidelines from the CDC. The protocol issue has been front and center. Now, questions are swirling over whether poor protective equipment played a role.

Let's take a look, a hands-on look. We have Dr. Alexander Van Tulleken, CNN medical analyst and senior fellow at the Institute for the International Humanitarian Affairs.

Also, Lisa Baum is here. She's health and safety representative for the New York State Nurses Association.

So glad both of you are here to talk about all of this with us. We thought we'd kind of do a demonstration to highlight the differences.

On my right in the blue, producer Miguel is dressed in the CDC- recommended type recommendations, the guidelines that the CDC recommends for personal protective gear. On his left is John. And John is wearing the WHO guidelines. You can see there's a stark difference.

Xander, first of all, highlight what you see are the biggest difference between the two. And again, these are our representations, they're not accurate to a T.

DR. ALEXANDER VAN TULLEKEN, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: No, I think that's right. And you've very sensibly not rain robbed the hospital of the equipment they need.

PEREIRA: We don't want to do that. Exactly.

VAN TULLEKEN: So, what you can see with Miguel is his legs are exposed. So, you can get contamination there. Much more of his neck is exposed.

PEREIRA: I know. This is really concerning here.

VAN TULLEKEN: And the other thing is that the back of his gown is open. So, it assumes that you can only get contamination from the front. If you get contamination from the back, if a colleague goes behind you, if a patient is sick on your back, then you have a real problem taking it off.

In the contrast, John who's following the CDC guidelines --

PEREIRA: The WHO guidelines.

VAN TULLEKEN: Sorry, the WHO guidelines, is covered head to toe, his entire head is covered.

PEREIRA: No skin.

VAN TULLEKEN: No skin is exposed. And his feet aren't exposed. And indeed, he could get his back exposed safely.

PEREIRA: Lisa, this is where I want to talk to you, in terms of the nurses, dealing with this front and center on the front lines. This is concerning that there is no standard. We know the CDC has a different set of protocol than the WHO, than Doctors Without Borders. And that the standards aren't clear-cut for every hospital. That's really an issue.

LISA BAUM, NEW YORK STATE NURSES ASSOCIATION: And I would say that the CDC guidelines are not adequate. And places like Emory, Nebraska, and Bellevue are going beyond the CDC guidelines as they should. I would say that neither of these two examples are adequately protective, and particularly when it comes to respiratory protection.

We need to differentiate between someone who is dealing with a patient who has a confirmed case of Ebola and someone who walks into an emergency room.

PEREIRA: Not sure what they are --

BAUM: Not sure. They're not highly symptomatic.

PEREIRA: Right.

BAUM: And you may not need as high a level of protection.

But if you're dealing with a patient who is a confirmed case of Ebola, you should be wearing a much higher level of personal protective equipment and you should be much more covered than either of these two people are.

PEREIRA: And let's talk about this because I think it's really important. The suit, needs to be impermeable. It cannot have -- it cannot be a permeable fabric.

BAUM: And this zipper makes it permeable.

PEREIRA: OK. Interesting.

BAUM: So, tape over the seams. But the other really important thing, the point Lisa is making is exactly right. The equipment isn't good enough. But also, when you then look at the protocols for what to do --

PEREIRA: The removal. We've had so many people on our air, our medical professionals talk about, you know, you could be -- I think you even said, you could wear a garbage bag of Home Depot.

VAN TULLEKEN: Yes.

PEREIRA: But it's the key of how you're removing it. So, talk to us about that, because there's different centers. The CDC itself has two different set of guidelines on how to remove it.

VAN TULLEKEN: Profoundly confusing.

When you go -- I was on the Web site five minutes ago and when you download the guidelines, this morning after they claimed they changed them. They are exactly the same and there are two different ways of removing this garment. So, if you're trying to train people, you don't know which standard to follow.

Not only that, but they differ in terms of hand washing procedures. So, the WHO guidelines say you remove your gloves, you clean your hands and then you remove your face equipment.

PEREIRA: We need to point out that Doctors Without Borders have been following that protocol and have great success in it.

VAN TULLEKEN: Exactly.

PEREIRA: Why is that not be done in the United States, is there any sense of why that is?

BAUM: I think because the guidance has not been clear and the precautionary principle is not being followed. The precautionary principle says you provide the highest level of protection possible. If that is done, with a tremendous amount of training, because these procedures for what we call donning and doffing personal protective equipment are very complicated. You need to have a tremendous amount of training and practice in order to do it safely.

PEREIRA: Sort of repeat it over and over and over.

BAUM: That's right. And you also need to have a buddy system --

PEREIRA: Sure.

BAUM: -- where you have someone watching you and helping you with the process.

PEREIRA: In terms of the training, Xander, you're even showing me on the CDC Web site before I came out here. How does that information and the guidelines get sent to hospitals? How is it dispersed? And how are people trained? I want to talk about the training that you're seeing. But how does that get sent out?

VAN TULLEKEN: At the moment, the answer is it's not, which is why we're seeing people with no idea of the protocols and I think the buck here really stops with the CDC. When you -- this is not hard to take down one set of guidelines and to upload the WHO guidelines. They could have done that overnight. It would take you 20 minutes to do that.

PEREIRA: It's a quick.

VAN TULLEKEN: It's a quick fix and they haven't done it.

So, at the moment, the resources that are widely available for hospital managers are really bad.

And Lisa is absolutely right. The nurses are the front line. To not protect our nurses is to have nurses not showing up to work and that's really, really terrifying.

PEREIRA: Dr. McCormick was telling us anecdotally on the air a few moments ago, that at a hospital in Texas, he heard some of the people in the hospitals were getting training from YouTube.

What is the training procedure? You mentioned Bellevue. They're going above and beyond the protocol and the training. Is that sort of the standard for here in New York? And what are other hospitals around the states doing in terms of training?

BAUM: I believe for New York City, Bellevue is the standard.

PEREIRA: OK.

BAUM: And they are taking professional trainers who are spending extensive amounts of time doing hands-on training over and over again. You bring up an important point in that a lot of hospitals are handing out flyers and leaflets, that show how to don and doff personal protective equipment or sending them to watch videos, that is not acceptable. This is a very complex procedure. And it has to be done right every time.

PEREIRA: And it's not just about protecting the individual. But it's about protecting the community.

Lisa, thank you so much for joining us, I appreciate it.

BAUM: Thank you.

PEREIRA: Xand, always a pleasure,.

And our models, you look fantastic. We appreciate it. You can go back to work now.

Obviously, there's a lot of points of concern now, Alisyn and Chris, glad we were able to illustrate some of the concerns for sure.

CAMEROTA: Yes, really helpful, really helpful. Didn't know that about the zipper making it permeable. Really great stuff. Thanks so much, Michaela. The Ebola crisis could be taking more than a human toll. World markets

shaking up, stocks are sliding, futures sharply down this morning. Is this because of Ebola? We'll break that down.

CUOMO: Plus, we have new information for you about a second Ebola- infected Texas nurse who's now being treated at an Atlanta hospital, Emory to be exact. How did the CDC allow her to board a plane one day before she was diagnosed? Are they on their game or not? They're supposed to be in charge, aren't they? Dr. Sanjay Gupta will join us with perspective right ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Big question , the Ebola crisis in the U.S., is it really a crisis? Not by medical standards, but by market standards, it may be. There's a legitimate question, that are these market fluctuations on Wall Street having something to do with the fear that is starting to grow and grow here?

The Dow plummeted 460 points Wednesday. It did stage a comeback, ended down 173. But the question is, why? Futures this morning, already sharply down. So, let's get some perspective on this. We have CNN global economic analyst and assistant managing editor at "Time" Rana Foroohar and Christine Romans, CNN chief business correspondent.

Let's just set the table here, shall we? When you look at it, Rana, what do you think are the major moves going on here in the market?

RANA FOROOHAR, CNN GLOBAL ECONOMIC ANALYST: I think the market is really just catching up to economic realities. So, for a long time, we've had a recovery in this country that hasn't felt like a recovery to a lot of people, but markets have been way up here. So, there's been this disconnect. Now global growth is being downgraded, Europe is in danger of tipping back into recession, China is having a slowdown, and markets are really responding to that. And our own recovery in this country isn't strong enough to really offset those fears.

CAMEROTA: So, Christine, no Ebola connection?

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: I mean, I think Ebola was a fear factor yesterday, but these markets have a lot of predictable reasons to be coming down. It's been 1,000 days since the Dow has had, or the S&P has had a correction of 10 percent. It's normal to correct. It's healthy for stocks to pull down. We haven't seen that, so everyone has been waiting.

Also, don't forget, October, this month, the Fed stops it's stimulus gain. The Fed is out of the stimulus business.

FOROOHAR: That's a big deal.

ROMANS: That is a very big deal, so anybody who thought the market could go up, up, up, up is crazy. I mean, you've got to have pull- back. The question is, does it stop here or keep going? This morning it looks pretty ugly. European stocks are down sharply. Asian stocks closed down sharply, and Dow futures are down sharp again this morning.

CUOMO: You know, I often feel that it's important to kind of pull the veil back on the inside game that often moves the market that we don't pay attention to. So, speak to two things. One for each of you. Rana, stocks have been bought back by companies more than they have been bought by anyone else in the retail sector, okay? So, I want you to talk to that. And then, Christine, I want you to talk about the new subprime problem of how commodities have been used and people are unwinding those now and that's also tanking the market either. But start with this idea, companies have been buying their stock more than anybody else, right?

FOROOHAR: Absolutely, and one of the reasons that companies buy back stock is that it kicks stock prices up, right? That's the effect that it always has, so it has kind of a virtuous cycle for shareholders, many of which are the top executives in these companies. A lot of analysts complain that as share buy-backs go up, investment in the real economy goes down. So, that's money that's not being spent on, say, building a factory. It's going back to the hands of investors.

ROMANS: It's financial engineering. It's like building economic - -

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Well, they think their stocks are cheap, Alisyn, so they buy their own stock because they think it's undervalued so they'll make money as it goes up.

ROMANS: Using their cash in the bank, too.

(CROSSTALK)

ROMANS: A huge businessman, Carlos (inaudible), just last week told me that we need to stop the financial engineering and start actually rebuilding the economy. Companies have to spend money again, and that's when you start to get real jobs for real workers.

CAMEROTA: But, I mean, given these tumultuous times, what are you advising people who are listening to this?

ROMANS: If you're really close to retirement, you should not be 100 percent in stocks, and I know you agree with me on this. And there are a lot of people who have ridden the last five or six years and made very good returns in the stock market. You need to know what your risk tolerance is, how close you are to retirement. You should not be 100 percent stocks if you're, you know, 65, 75 years old. For young people, you want to see pull-backs, because you're buying stocks cheaper and for the long-term, it's good for your 401K.

FOROOHAR: Absolutely, and, you know, the other thing to remember is the U.S. is still the prettiest house on an ugly block. You know, I think that we're going to see a pick-up actually in this market. I think we'll see a lot more - -

CUOMO: People parking money in the U.S. FOROOHAR: I think so because if you look at where the growth is, oddly

it's here. You know, it's not in these supposedly fast-growing emerging markets right now.

ROMANS: If you can refinance your mortgage this is now also - -

FOROOHAR: Yes, yes, yes, absolutely.

ROMANS: You've got ten-year note yields, they're parking their money in the treasury market. The 10-year note yield is now 1.8 percent. I just looked at it this morning. That means, you know, mortgage rates are going to go down. If you can get a mortgage, if you can get a refinancing, Ben Bernanke, the former Fed chief said he tried to refinance and couldn't because they're so strict.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Well, they have different levels of risk tolerance now as it deals with regular people.

ROMANS: Right.

CUOMO: But the reason I asked you about this commodity thing is that there are a lot of people, I have a good buddy who runs Potamus Capital up in Connecticut and he says the commodities are the new- - you know, oil, gas, all these different things, that that's the new subprime problem, and that people have been wrapping up all of these financial instruments in them again, with a lot of leverage again. Same problem as the last time with mortgages and they're starting to unwind them now, and that's why we're seeing the market come down.

FOROOHAR: You know, I think commodities have been really financialized. They've become trading instruments, as you say, but there's also --

CUOMO: Because we don't hear about this.

FOROOHAR: We don't hear about that, but its also, you have to say there's a big slowdown in China. The U.S. is coming online as a big supplier of energy. Those things are both pushing down oil prices.

ROMANS: Oil prices are plunging. Oil prices have plunged from $107 this summer a barrel to $80 a barrel. Gas prices will go down. That's good for the consumer, but it does give us some bigger-picture concerns about slowing global growth.

CUOMO: Well, but it's also not just supply and demand. It goes to this other theory which is they're using it as part of their game now. They've come up with a new way to make money amongst themselves, which is just wrapped up around a commodity instead of a mortgage.

PEREIRA: The person at home is trying to figure it all out. You hear the bigger picture - -

(CROSSTALK).

CUOMO: Not a fair game.

PEREIRA: Well, that's a good point.

FOROOHAR: You know, at base, the problem with this recovery is the wages aren't going up. I've been saying that for a long time. Until you see wages really start to tick up and people have more money in their pockets, you cannot have a sustainable recovery that really feels like a recovery.

ROMANS: When companies are spending money, either keeping it in the bank or buying back their own shares, it doesn't raise wages, it doesn't create jobs.

PEREIRA: Conundrum.

CAMEROTA: Christina, Rana, thanks so much for all the information.

CUOMO: When the market's going up and your wages are not going up, there's a reason.

CAMEROTA: Income inequality, too.

ROMANS: Then the rich get richer and everyone else keeps working.

FOROOHAR: Yes, big problem.

CUOMO: There's a reason. Something going on with the market, insider games, I'm all over it. Rana Foroohar, Christine Romans, thank you as always. It's great to have you here. Alright, this is one big story for you this morning, but we're following a lot of news so let's get to it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The second critical care nurse to contract Ebola receiving treatment here, at Emory Hospital in Atlanta.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We are monitoring, supervising, overseeing in a much more aggressive way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Vinson was on a Frontier Airlines flight from Cleveland to Dallas.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She should not have traveled on a commercial airline.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The CDC is considering putting the 76 health care workers from the Dallas hospital on the TSA's no-fly list.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The administration plans to announce an order giving the Pentagon authority to call up reservists to fight Ebola in West Africa.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're not moving fast enough.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm taking it very seriously. (END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: Good morning, everyone, and welcome back to NEW DAY. I'm Alisyn Camerota along with Chris Cuomo. Great to be with you. Why did they let her fly?

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

CAMEROTA (voice-over): The CDC getting blasted this morning for allowing a Texas nurse, Amber Vinson, seen here, to board a commercial flight from Cleveland to Dallas, even though she says she tried to warn them beforehand that she was running a slight fever after treating a dying Ebola patient. The frontier airlines crew on her flight now placed on medical leave for 21 days. Vinson is being treated at an Atlanta hospital where she is said to be in stable condition at this hour.

And in one of the most bizarre scenes, despite the concerns about transmission, a man seen here on the tarmac who was helping prepare Vinson to fly to Atlanta, is without a Hazmat suit or any visible protection.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

CUOMO: It is like a metaphor for the situation. Do we know what to do or not? This Ebola situation, I don't want to call it a crisis, but it is starting to raise fears, it has people on edge. Schools in Texas and Ohio are closing for the day because of concerns about Ebola after the nurses' flight.

This as officials at Texas Health Presbyterian, that's where, that's the hospital where the man lost his life and two nurses work there ,bracing for a possible walkout by their nursing staff because they don't have their game together enough.

President Obama now stepping up his concern, he's canceling another day of events in order to stay at the White House and deal, in quotes, with the emergency. How do we do that? The CDC, they're considering whether to place 76 workers from the embattled hospital on the TSA's no-fly list. The irony, after they let the woman who was infected, fly. The CDC director Thomas Friedan is preparing to get grilled at Capitol Hill today in a hearing. So, let's get our coverage going of this Ebola situation.

Let's start in Dallas with senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen. Good morning, Elizabeth.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Chris. Chris, Amber Vinson's temperature was just one degree too low to keep her off that flight from Cleveland to Dallas.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COHEN (voice-over): This morning, the second critical care nurse to contract Ebola receiving treatment here, at Emory Hospital in Atlanta. Transferred from Texas Health Presbyterian as officials are worried that furloughed employees and a possible walk-out of nurses would leave them unable to care for 29-year-old Amber Vinson. Officials say Vinson is more progressed than Nina Pham, the first nurse to be diagnosed with the deadly disease, both having extensive contact with the now-deceased Liberian, Thomas Duncan.

The CDC says a total of 76 health care workers may have been exposed to the virus.

THOMAS FRIEDEN, DIRECTOR, CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL AND PREVENTION: Some of the forms of PPE used did allow exposure of some parts of the skin.

COHEN: All 76 may be placed on a no-fly list according to a source familiar with the situation, fearing the virus could be transmitted within a confined aircraft.

FRIEDEN: She should not have traveled on a commercial airline.

COHEN: This, after a shocking revelation that Vinson, the second health care worker with Ebola, flew to Cleveland on a commercial airline two days after Duncan passed and just a day before experiencing Ebola symptoms. Vinson flew back to Dallas on Frontier Airlines Flight 1143. A federal official tells CNN, the nurse called the CDC before boarding and reported a higher-than-normal body temperature, but lower than what the CDC says is the criteria for Ebola.

No one told her at that time she shouldn't fly. Frontier Airlines tells CNN they pro actively placed six crew members on paid leave for 21 days after being notified by the CDC that Vinson may have been symptomatic.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's no way she should have been on that flight. She was being monitored here in Dallas, and if she was monitored correctly she would have gotten into the hospital, I think, earlier than going on that flight.