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NEW DAY

CDC Cleared Ebola-Stricken Nurse To Fly; Obama Promises "More Aggressive" Ebola Response; Should White House Consider Ebola Travel Ban?

Aired October 16, 2014 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking new details, the newest Ebola patient, Amber Vinson, arrives in Atlanta and is now receiving life- saving treatment. This as we learn she actually called the CDC before taking that flight to Cleveland, and the CDC let her get on it. But now, they're considering banning travel for anyone being monitored for Ebola.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: And the flight crew who flew her to Dallas now put on medical leave, as more lawmakers call for a complete ban for all flights from West Africa. President Obama canceling more events today to deal with the Ebola emergency.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Fear factor, schools now cancelled in parts of Dallas and Ohio where the Ebola-infected nurse was just days ago, but it is this video that has many wondering who was this man showing no fear, helping to transport Vinson wearing no protective gear?

CUOMO: You NEW DAY starts right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Kate Bolduan, and Michaela Pereira.

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CUOMO: Good morning, welcome to NEW DAY. It is Thursday, October 16th, 6:00 in the East. I'm joined this morning by Alisyn Camerota.

CAMEROTA: Busy morning, great to see you.

CUOMO: It is busy because we have new information for you. CNN has learned Amber Vinson, the Texas nurse diagnosed with Ebola called the CDC before boarding a flight from Cleveland to Dallas Monday warning the agency she had treated Ebola patient, Thomas Eric Duncan, and that she was running a low-grade fever.

But she was not stopped from boarding a plane filled with 132 people. Vinson has been transported to Atlanta for treatment and is thankfully listed in stable condition, but mistakes in how things are being handled is fueling scared reactions.

Several schools in Texas and Ohio now closing for the day because of concern students or teachers could have been put at risk.

CAMEROTA: The CDC considering placing 76 workers from the Texas hospital on the TSA's no-fly list. President Obama has canceled another day of events in order to stay at the White House and deal with this emergency.

And later today, embattled CDC Director Thomas Frieden can expect an intense grilling from lawmakers on Capitol Hill. Also set to testify, the chief clinician of that Dallas hospital, who in prepared remarks apologizes, saying, they are deeply sorry and that they made mistakes in how they handled the first Ebola patient, Thomas Duncan.

So our coverage of the Ebola crisis begins with senior medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen, live in Dallas. Elizabeth, a very busy morning. Give us all the latest from Dallas.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, good morning, a 99.5-degree temperature was not quite enough to keep a woman, who we know now ended up having Ebola, off a commercial aircraft.

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COHEN (voice-over): This morning, the second critical care nurse to contract Ebola receiving treatment here at Emory Hospital in Atlanta, transferred from Texas Health Presbyterian as officials are worried that furloughed employees and a possible walk-out of nurses would leave them unable to care for 29-year-old Amber Vinson.

Officials say Vinson is more progressed than Nina Pham, the first nurse to be diagnosed with deadly disease. Both having extensive contact with the now diseased Liberian Thomas Duncan. The CDC says a total of 76 health care workers may have been exposed to the virus.

DR. THOMAS FRIEDEN, CDC DIRECTOR (via telephone): Some of the forms of PPE used did allow exposure of some parts of the skin.

COHEN: All 76 may be placed on a no-fly list, according to a source familiar with the situation. Fearing the virus could be transmitted within a confined aircraft.

FRIEDEN: She should not have traveled on a commercial airline.

COHEN: This, after a shocking revelation that Vinson, the second health care worker with Ebola, flew to Cleveland on a commercial airline two days after Duncan passed. And just a day before experiencing Ebola symptoms, Vinson flew back to Dallas on Frontier Airlines Flight 1143.

A federal official tells CNN, the nurse called the CDC before boarding and reported a higher-than-normal body temperature, but lower than what the CDC says is the criteria for Ebola. No one told her at that time she shouldn't fly.

Frontier Airlines tells CNN they proactively placed six crew members on paid leave for 21 days, after being notified by the CDC that Vinson may have been symptomatic.

MAYOR MIKE RAWLINGS, DALLAS, TEXAS: There is no way she should have been on that flight. She was being monitored here in Dallas and if she was monitored correctly, she would have gotten into the hospital I think earlier than going on that flight.

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COHEN: Now, it's interesting, a nurse's union two days ago had some pretty strong assertions against the hospital, saying, they weren't following basic safety protocols. The hospital just now, this morning, has issued a press release saying that those assertions do not affect the actual record. The hospital says that they follow and in some cases even exceeded CDC guidelines -- Chris, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: That is different than what we had heard from the nurse's union. So we will get into that later in the program. Elizabeth, thanks so much.

President Obama canceling a series of campaign stops to focus on the Ebola situation, promising a more aggressive federal response to new cases. CNN's Joe Johns is live at the White House for us. So Joe, good morning, what changes are the president talking about?

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, a number of changes including Ebola emergency response teams. Of course, the president did cancel political plans to travel in advance of the midterm elections to New York and Rhode Island today in order to stay back and monitor and manage the Ebola crisis.

The administration has come under increasing criticism of late, over this. They did make those announcements last night. The president talked just a little bit after meeting with his team. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We are monitoring, supervising, overseeing in a much more aggressive way, exactly what's taking place in Dallas initially and making sure that the lessons learned are then transmitted to hospitals and clinics all across the country.

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JOHNS: The speaker of the House, among others, have, has gone on the record saying he thinks the administration needs to consider at least the possibility of temporarily banning flights from the West African nations where the biggest problems are occurring.

Tom Frieden, the director of the CDC has also come under criticism on Capitol Hill, some even calling for his resignation. He is expected to appear at a hearing on Capitol Hill to talk about what the administration is doing. Back to you.

CAMEROTA: Yes, that should be an interesting and fiery hearing so we will stay tuned for that. Joe, thanks so much. Let's go over to Chris for more.

CUOMO: All right, so let's figure out what makes sense now. Joining to us do just that is Dr. Alexander Garza, he served as chief medical officer for the Department of Homeland Security and is now an associate dean at St. Louis University College for public health.

And we also have Dr. Joe McCormick. He is professor and regional dean at the University of Texas School of Public Health. He helped investigate the first Ebola epidemic in Central Africa. Thanks to both of you for being here.

Dr. McCormick, let me start with you. The push from the White House now to send in SWAT teams when a hospital is dealing with a case of Ebola. Good idea?

DR. JOSEPH MCCORMICK, PROFESSOR AND REGIONAL DEAN, UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Well, I think it will be helpful. But I don't think it's going to cover every hospital in the country. And so I think they're going to have to have a strategy for how they're going to address this because we can't choose where Ebola patients are going to appear.

CUOMO: Why don't you think it will apply to all hospitals? I thought the idea was, if a hospital has to deal with a case, they get a team.

MCCORMICK: Yes, it would work like that, but how do the hospitals prepare their staff. When you get a patient, and you get a SWAT team, they'll help. But you want to have a staff that's already trained, that's got some concept of what they're going to do before the SWAT team ever gets there. That's where my concern is.

CUOMO: So even though it's a good idea to send somebody, you may make the mistakes before they get there that wind up determining whether you have exposure.

MCCORMICK: Exactly. Even if they get there, unless they take over the whole operation, you still have to have your local staff, who know the hospital, who know the situation, so they have to be trained. And yesterday, I heard from my own area of Texas, that the training consists of a YouTube video.

CUOMO: That's all it is? We still not where we need to be. That's the consensus this morning. Dr. Garza, let me ask you something about the apology we heard from Texas Presbyterian.

Now it did not include an apparent inability to establish protocols. They are still pushing back on that. They're saying in some cases we exceeded what the CDC told them to do.

Do you see this as a solid apology and a recognition that they now what they did wrong and know how to fix it, or are they still fundamentally being apologists and forwarding, you know, kind of weak excuses for what happened there.

DR. ALEXANDER GARZA, FORMER CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER, DEPT. OF HOMELAND SECURITY: What they need to do is come around, full circle. Admit when you make mistakes, identify the issues and start moving forward. So there are some lessons to be learned, though, from this patient showing up in Dallas. And hopefully, we can take those and move forward in a much more robust manner.

CUOMO: To be clear, is Texas the exception or do you believe that it is a solid medical center and a lot of hospitals around the country would have made the same mistakes?

GARZA: I believe it's a solid medical center and by all means, it receives high marks in medical care. I think the challenge is, is this was the first patient to show up on American soil. And your best battle plan never survives first contact with the enemy and this one clearly did not.

So I don't think it's a case that they were necessarily not as well prepared as any other hospital. I think that you know, with this being a first patient showing up on American soil, that it was difficult for them to develop an executable plan to take care of this patient.

CUOMO: Because battle is about to keep with your metaphor, adjustment and strategy and that's where we seem to be lacking here. And that takes us to the next news headline this morning.

Dr. McCormick back to you on this, victim number two, 29-year-old Amber Vinson is now at Emory. She got there the right way this time. Although we'll talk about that, one security guard who wasn't in the beekeeper suit like everybody else around the hazmat situation.

She was allowed to fly by the CDC, she called them. She did the right thing. She said this is what's going to happen. Are you OK with this, they said yes. Mistake?

MCCORMICK: Yes, clearly.

CUOMO: How does that happen?

MCCORMICK: It happens when things are not coordinated. When there's nobody who is in charge and who for, that all of these kinds of questions have to flow through. And when you hear one, the director say, well, she shouldn't have been there, and then we find out that she actually called the CDC, it shows the disconnected kind of situation that we've seen.

And to me, that's part of the explanation for a lot of things we've seen. It's just lack of coordination. It's lack of a central some kind of central authority.

CUOMO: Now what do you think about the pendulum swing the other way, which is now everybody on that plane. We're tracking everybody down. They shouldn't fly, they shouldn't be anywhere. The 75, 76 people or whatever who are in that point of contact, possibility of the man in Texas, they're in the no-fly list, which is a very high bar, rarely used. Do you think that is the right reaction or is it overdoing it?

MCCORMICK: I think it's, it's a little bit pushing the panic button. I understand there's schools closed.

CUOMO: Yes. Employees being told to stay home.

MCCORMICK: This woman was not going to transmit virus.

CUOMO: How do you know?

MCCORMICK: To the plane because she was barely febrile unless she was going around hugging everybody, which I highly doubt, she was not shedding virus.

CUOMO: Do you understand, Dr. Garza, why, why the uninitiated like me, that is unconvincing to me. There's -- the big credibility gap is, I'm not sure that we know how you get this virus. I keep being told that it's very difficult to get.

But it seems like every time someone is anywhere near it, Dr. Garza, everybody in their circle becomes suspicious to the medical experts. What am I missing?

GARZA: Correct. Yes. And I think it comes down to, to understanding of risk and so a lot of people internalize the personal risk because it's a very unfamiliar thing. If you think about the people that have become infected, it is the two nurses that worked very closely with Mr. Duncan, that were around a huge volume of virus from this patient and those are the two people that were affected.

CUOMO: Joe, why do you keep drawing these big circles around these people when they get it?

MCCORMICK: Well, I think it's out of fear, Chris.

CUOMO: Is it smart fear?

MCCORMICK: No, it's not. Because what happens is you then move your resources away from the focus into a much wider circle. I think the biggest reason for arguing, or for illustrating, not just arguing that she was not infectious, look at the family of Mr. Duncan. They still, we're now almost 21 days and none of them have become infected.

CUOMO: And they were really around him. This wasn't just sitting on a plane and he was very sick.

MCCORMICK: And he was very sick. That is what we've seen historically a lot. And that's why we say -- that someone who gets on the airplane, who has fever of 99.5, is clearly not going to be shedding virus. Does that mean she doesn't have any virus circulating in her blood? No. But what it means is she's not shedding it so other people are not going to get it.

CUOMO: That's a strong point. The people who we should be most concerned about, who were around Mr. Duncan, may he rest in peace, he was really sick in that apartment, they were in close quarters and thus far, none of them have come down with the virus themselves. That's an important point to make.

Dr. Joe McCormick, thank you very much. Dr. Alexander Garza, good to have you on the show. Appreciate the perspective.

MCCORMICK: Thank you.

CUOMO: All right, Mich, over to you.

PEREIRA: All right, 12 minutes past hour. Here is a look at your headlines. General Martin Dempsey says America has a winning strategy to beat ISIS. In an interview with CNN, the general stressed he doesn't see a need to put boots on the ground in the fight against the terror group and adding that Baghdad will not fall into ISIS hands. We'll have more of General Dempsey's comments ahead in our next hour.

U.S. and European leaders are optimistic about making a deal with Iran about its nuclear program. Before Thanksgiving, a State Department official says there's still a whole lot to hammer out, but no move yet to extend the November 24th deadline. The goal is for Iran to scale back its nuclear activities in exchange for the west lifting sanctions.

It took 29 long years, but the Kansas City Royals are back in the World Series. The Royals finish off a four-game sweep of the Baltimore Orioles to win the American league pennant.

Kansas City becomes the first team ever to win its first eight games in the postseason. They will face off against either the Giants or the Cardinals in the fall classic. San Francisco leads the NLCS three games to one and can clinch it tonight.

OK, new low perhaps in Florida politics. A debate between Governor Rick Scott and Democratic challenger, Charlie Crist was delayed last night because of that -- a fan. Not a fan like, I love your work, but I mean like a fan that blows wind.

You can see Crist had a small electrical fan beneath the podium, presumably to keep cool and dry. That caused Scott to lose his cool. He refused to come on stage, charging Crist with breaking the rules.

The governor finally emerged 7 minutes later, Crist kept his fan, the debate began. The next Florida debate will be held on CNN Tuesday at 7:00 p.m. Eastern. No word if there's a fan clause in those debates.

CUOMO: Probably wasn't, Crist was trying to avoid the full Nixon. You know not get sweaty during it. You know what a huge advantage that fan is? Not at all. What a joke this is.

CAMEROTA: Maybe Rick Scott can get his own fan. They're not that hard it come by.

PEREIRA: I think you could find them. You might even get a coupon online.

CAMEROTA: All right. We'll see if that happens for next debate.

Meanwhile, the Ebola crisis is sparking a fierce debate about travel. Should there be a travel ban in West Africa. How about domestically for health care workers? Top lawmakers are demanding the president consider it.

CUOMO: And there is a lot of talk about a lack of protocols in U.S. hospitals. I mean, who do we hear that is ready to get it right, that there's a clear demonstration of what to do? We're OK in terms of an outbreak right now, but what happens if it gets worse? Look at these two -- live demonstrations showing just how easy it is for health care workers to contaminate themselves with a deadly virus with what we're using now to keep them safe.

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CAMEROTA: We have some breaking developments overnight in the Ebola crisis to tell you about. The latest nurse to contract Ebola in Dallas was allowed to fly to and from Cleveland, even though she told the CDC she had treated Thomas Eric Duncan and was running a slight fever.

Meanwhile, the administration defending the decision not to ban travel to or from hot zones in West Africa.

Let's talk about all of this with CNN's aviation analyst and PBS science correspondent, Miles O'Brien, and Mary Schiavo, CNN aviation analyst and former inspector general for the Department of Transportation.

Great to see both of you.

Mary, when I thought we'd be talking to you this morning, I thought we were going to be talking about the travel ban in and out of West Africa. But in fact, they are considering putting health care workers, domestically, who were in Dallas, 76 of them, on a no-fly list of the TSA, to stop them from traveling because we couldn't even control that. What do you think of the new development this morning?

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, it's tough. It's harsh measures. But I think it's necessary because of what happened yesterday.

You know, aviation is fast and it's borderless and it's the two things that the Ebola virus, you know, takes advantage of. And so, until we get the system under control and since we're not going to ban, the president said we're not going to ban travel from Ebola-stricken areas and the World Health Organization says by December, there will be between 5,000 and 10,000 new cases a week, that's a lot.

So, we have to get control of it in the United States or people will quit flying. And that will seriously impact the economy here.

CAMEROTA: Miles, do you think the TSA needs to be involved domestically to keep people like this nurse yesterday from getting on flights?

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, clearly, the health care workers, demonstrated are in the most high-risk to receive the virus one way or another. So, I think it's a reasonable thing to expect them not to be involved in public transportation while they're treating people who are most infected and who are transmitting. So, I think that's a reasonable thing. I think that's an appropriate response.

CAMEROTA: Mary, let's talk about the international -- the suggestions for an international travel ban from West Africa. There are more and more calls. There are 26 lawmakers who are saying the president should do it and should consider it. Do you think it's the right decision?

SCHIAVO: Oh, yes. And it's long overdue and remember, last week, the government also announced that they would not be moving medical workers and medical supplies in and out on commercial aircraft and there are very few going there now, anyway. But they would be using military flights, so I think that excuse is gone.

And again, it's not to punish people who are sick, it's to get control of the situation, so our country can continue to function.

CAMEROTA: OK. So, you think there should be a travel ban in place. Miles, what about Mary's argument that we're not really doing much humanitarian aid on commercial airlines going into West Africa?

O'BRIEN: Well, I do think it's very important to not inhibit the ability for aid workers, for volunteers to get in and out of there. And solve the problem. You're going to solve the problem at the source. And to the extent that you try to build a wall around it, I don't think you're going to enhance your ability to solve it. It's not like you can seal it up in a bag and it will just go away.

So, fighting it on the ground is the way to do that. Impeding the ability of workers to get in and out of there is, is not necessarily the solution. It's not going to stop the spread. If there's a way to allow that flow back and forth, if there's some measures that can be taken only on military aircraft, if that can be done, I suppose that's something to look at.

But I do think in response to what we're talking about here, the focus should be on the health care system. That's what broke down here. The hospital, the CDC, those are the organizations right now we should be focusing on. It's not -- the net that's been put in place by the airline system so far has worked.

CAMEROTA: Mary, here's a possibly dumb question, but I am curious about this. Is there any way to just allow flights into West Africa with whatever is needed, health care workers and have them fly out empty? I know that's economically not the most sound argument, but we could pay for that for a little while.

SCHIAVO: Well, yes, but again, we're not doing that. That isn't what the United States is doing. Airlines that are going into West Africa, well, and some of the French ones have now shut down. But Air Morocco and Brussels are the two main ones. So, what we would be doing is keeping people who have traveled there from coming here and we already allow such kinds of humanitarian flights and aid to places all over the world, including countries where Americans are not allowed to go. So, I think with the government stating last week they were going to

do that on military flights, it just doesn't ring true. That argument and no one wants to keep health care workers from getting there. But they're not getting there on American planes, anyway.

CAMEROTA: Miles?

O'BRIEN: Well, I just think -- with all due respect to Mary, who I have great respect for -- if we're going to talk a ban like this, should we ban everybody from leaving Dallas on a plane, because there's been an Ebola outbreak there? There's a patient there. There are health care workers affected.

That would be the logic.

CAMEROTA: OK. Mary, go ahead.

SCHIAVO: Well, you know, I think that if we don't get control of this, and I do agree with Miles tremendously, the CDC really has dropped the ball. Not the airlines. Surprisingly, I'm very critical often of airlines.

But I think it won't be too long, if we don't get it under control here, that Europe and other countries will be asking that question. Should we be banning certain flights from the United States? I think we are going to be under the microscope very soon.

CAMEROTA: Miles, the public, I think we showed a poll, maybe not -- the public seems to agree with Mary, that there should be a travel ban from West African countries that would make the public feel better here in the U.S.

O'BRIEN: Well, yes, people are afraid. And I think when you, when you institute a ban, that just it exacerbates the fear. It becomes a little death spiral of fear as we go down this road. When you consider that they've closed down some schools and are cleaning schools in Cleveland, because a teacher flew on the plane, not even with the health care worker. Subsequent to her being on the plane, you have to say to yourself, people are not really thinking this through and thinking about what the real risks are.

Our perception of risk is very frequently completely discordant with what our real risks are.

CAMEROTA: Mary, I see you want in for a last comment?

SCHIAVO: Well, and that's the exact reason for the ban. We don't trust, Americans, yesterday, the one big blow that the nurse traveling had was the CDC, particularly after she called them -- people are concerned because it's their lives and their children's lives at stake. And we can't trust the people that are supposed to protect us. And so, that's why they take these measures.

Eliminate the fear by eliminating the possibility, which is the travel ban, which will make them feel better, because it's sensible. It's just common sense. CAMEROTA: Mary, Miles, thanks so much for debating this with us. We

appreciate it.

Let's go over to Chris for what's coming up.

CUOMO: Different story, same urgency. Another night of violent clashes between protesters and police in Hong Kong. The city is in chaos after televised footage showed officers stomping a demonstrator. Government leaders say they're ready to negotiate and end the standoff. But is it already too late?

And trying to stop an Ebola outbreak here in the U.S. we're going to show you just how easily a health care worker can become infected after treating an Ebola-stricken patient.

Stay with us.

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