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Brutal Day for Wall Street; Second Nurse with Ebola; CDC Chief on Capitol Hill; Interview with Rep. Tim Murphy; How Should Employers Deal with Ebola?

Aired October 16, 2014 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: Hello again. I'm Ana Cabrera, in for Carol this morning. Glad to have you with me. It could be another grueling day, unfortunately, for investors and for those of you who have money in the stock market, because stock futures have been slipping all morning, following yesterday's roller coaster ride. We are now just seconds from the opening bell and here with me, CNN's Christine Romans and Alison Kosik.

First, Alison, set the scene for us there right now.

ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: All right, we nervously await the next 20 seconds, as you hear the clapping, waiting for the opening bell to ring.

What you're seeing happen over the past week and half or so are stocks kind of rebooting and readjusting values that make more sense given the global economy. You're looking at economies in the Eurozone slowing down with countries including Germany trying to fight off a third recession in six years. You've got deflationary concerns here in the U.S. so not just in Europe. And you've got data describing the health of the U.S. Lately it's been mediocre, although we've got a good jobless claims report today, so it's really been mixed. And with that opening bell, we see more red on the screen. So whiplash Wednesday is turning into a tumultuous Thursday.

Ana.

ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: Way to think on the fly there, Alison.

Christine, let's bring you into the conversation as well. Again, we talked about that roller coaster, not just yesterday, but really for a week now. How long do you think this is going to last?

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is the nature of markets, Ana, quite frankly. I mean they don't all just go up and they don't all just go down. There are a lot of different cross currents right now. You have oil prices plunging. You have money coming out of the stock market going into the bond market. That's pushing yields on the 10 year note down below 2 percent. You know, bond yields falling, stocks falling, oil falling, a dollar strong. There's really a lot going on here. When you look just at the stock market, you know, it's been a thousand

days without a 10 percent pullback in the S&P 500. A pullback is normal. A pullback, a correction is natural in markets. So now you're seeing investors start to sell. They're looking at uncertainties around the world. They're looking at those cross currents. And the other markets I've been telling you about, they're looking at exactly what Alison said, slower expectations for global growth.

We do have this positive - this positive sign this morning in the labor market, this jobless claims number that was the lowest, I think, in 14 years. That should show you the labor market here is getting a little bit better. But, remember, the Fed is going to get out of the stimulus game this month. This will be when the Fed ends its stimulus this month. So there are a lot of uncertainties for investors to grapple with. There are a lot of reasons why stocks should not be at record highs and you've seen them falling from those record highs, Ana.

CABRERA: Alison, we're watching the big board right now and the Dow is just - is really low, 152 points below where it opened. So we also saw a similar situation yesterday. It dipped, what, 400 points and then rallied, right? Explain what was going on.

KOSIK: Right. So, hey, this was an improvement. What's really sad is that this seems like an improvement from yesterday. So we're seeing those losses kind of hold steady right around 150, 160 lower on the Dow. You know what we're really watching is what Christine was talking about, we're watching for that correction. And everybody's asking, please, make it stop. When is this going to stop. You know when it's going to stop? It could stop, I'm hearing, if you see third quarter earnings season really as it revs up -- we are in the middle of that -- if you see those third quarter earnings come in really top notch. And also a correction may be the answer to this tumultuous time in the market. You know, we talk about correction. It's not a dirty word. And as Christine has said, the market may be due for it.

CABRERA: And, Alison and Christine, you both seem to agree on that point. Thanks to both of you for providing that expertise and insight for us this morning.

Well, the CDC is under fire today for allowing an Ebola infected nurse to fly one day before she was officially diagnosed. Now, Frontier Airlines has grounded six crew members, two pilots, four flight attendants for 21 days. They're off the job. That's the airline, of course, that nurse Amber Vinson flew when she got on a flight out of Dallas for Cleveland on October 10th and then, three days later, she took another flight pack to Dallas. But before boarding that second flight, we now know she had a 99.5 degree fever. The plane she flew made five additional flights on Tuesday before it was then taken out of service. One hundred and thirty-two passengers were aboard Vinson's flight from Cleveland to Dallas. Right now the CDC director says it is working to contact all of those passengers.

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DR. TOM FRIEDEN, CDC DIRECTOR (voice-over): We are going and will always put in extra margins of safety and therefore we will be reaching out to all of the passengers and crew of that flight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: So a lot of people are asking today, how could Vinson have gotten the OK from the CDC to get on a plane when she was still within that 21-day window for potential Ebola exposure and she had a fever.

Joining me now, infectious diseases and public health specialist Dr. Celine Gounder, and CNN aviation analyst and former inspector general for the Department of Transportation Mary Schiavo.

Ladies, everybody's asking, how could this nurse be flying at all, let alone with a fever? I want to you ponder that while we take a quick look at the CDC's own guidelines. It says people who had potential exposure to Ebola should not travel by commercial conveyances, i.e., airplanes. But Dr. Gounder, what happened here? How did this happen?

DR. CELINE GOUNDER, INFECTIOUS DISEASES AND PUBLIC HEALTH SPECIALIST: Good morning, Ana.

We have an expression in medicine, you treat the patient, not the numbers. So going by a cutoff of a specific fever, temperature, to me it is kind of ridiculous in this situation. Really you should look at, is there a risk factor and are there symptoms that could be consistent with Ebola? In this case, yes and yes. She should not have been allowed to board that plane.

CABRERA: Did the CDC drop the ball then?

GOUNDER: Well, I think the CDC, there are a couple things that they should have done. One, she should have been in quarantine. And, by the way, quarantine is not a snow day. It's not a vacation. It's not a time to go fly and plan your wedding. You're in quarantine so that you're not transmitting to other people. The CDC should have enforced that with the assistance of law enforcement. And, secondly, she should have been put on a do not fly list that she wouldn't have boarded a commercial airline in the first place

CABRERA: Let's talk about that angle, the CDC does have a no board list that includes people with known infectious diseases and now it is looking at expanding this list to include people being monitored for Ebola and it's considering putting 76 health care workers at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital on that no fly list.

Mary, should this have been done sooner?

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Absolutely. And let's be really clear, everybody's talking about, you know, a new Ebola czar. The HHS, the secretary of HHS, is already empowered under the Public Health Service Act -- I think it's 42 USC 264 -- to prevent the entry -- that's really important -- prevent the entry and spread of communicable diseases and then the secretary of HHS delegates to the CDC, who has the full power to prevent people from traveling, to issue quarantines, and to use just as exactly as Ana said, to use the law enforcement powers of both the federal and state government to see that it happens. The CDC dropped the ball. They already had the power to do it. They just didn't do it.

CABRERA: I mean there seems to be a communication breakdown at the very least of some sort based on what we are witnessing, Dr. Gounder, do you think that there's not been proper leadership on this issue?

GOUNDER: I think with respect to communication, the CDC has really dropped the ball. We -- some of have questioned, do we need an Ebola czar to lead the response?

CABRERA: Right.

GOUNDER: I think it's less about leading the response and more about having somebody who can communicate with the public, educate with the public and have them understand what's going on. I think there's some questions about transparency, about the CDC changing its message day to day, and I think that's where having a surgeon general, for example, would be very helpful, because that's what that job is, is to educate the American public.

CABRERA: Did the CDC's guidelines simply get outdated? Because it seems like they keep on changing the game as we go.

GOUNDER: Right. Well, I think there are two things. One, the guidelines, the protocols at Texas Health Presbyterian evolve day-to- day. They were not CDC guidelines that were in place at that hospital to begin with and they were evolving day-to-day as Duncan got sicker. The CDC guidelines, which are again different from what was being done at Texas Health Presbyterian, those have recently been updated with the advice of experts at the World Health Organization and Doctors Without Borders, people who have much more experience with Ebola. We - you know, we don't really have much experience with Ebola in this country. So we've turned to those experts to update our guidelines now.

CABRERA: Mary, I want to talk a little bit more about this Frontier Airlines flight. We know Frontier has now issued a memo to its employees, among other things, it's putting those two pilots and the four flight attendants on were on that flight on paid leave for 21 days. It's also cleaning the affect flight four times, changing its filters, removing seat covers, even removing carpets. It says it's going above and beyond the CDC recommendations.

So, Mary, in your opinion, is the airline industry prepared to deal with Ebola?

SCHIAVO: No, they're not. And that's what's important to note. You know, airlines rely on two things, you know, and it's speed and no boundaries. That's why we love airplanes. We can go very fast to a whole lot of places. And the Federal Aviation Administration has deferred, by law, their regulations concern safety and security, and they have deferred to the CDC. And the CDC put out very vague guidelines about a month ago and they told the airlines, well, you know, if there's wet material on the seats or the rug, get up as much as you can. That's actually in the CDC guidelines.

CABRERA: Yikes. SCHIAVO: And then, of course, this week we learned that it could live for hours even if dried, bodily fluids, and it can live for days if it remains moist, like in the seats and the carpets. And the airlines weren't prepared for this. They don't have those kinds of cleaning crews on staff. And, remember, a lot of airlines turn their planes in just 30 minutes and there's no federal regulation, not a one, in the FAA that requires you even to wipe the tray table.

CABRERA: Wow. That's scary now that we're talking about Ebola.

Mary Schiavo, Dr. Celine Gounder, thanks to both of you today.

Still to come, the Obama administration also under fire for its handling of the Ebola crisis. Many asking, who is in charge, which we've been asking a lot here this morning. Now the president is vowing a stepped up response. We'll talk about that when we come back.

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CABRERA: As President Obama pledges a more aggressive response to Ebola here in the U.S., his critics say the administration's handling of this situation so far has fallen short and they're asking who is in charge. It's a question CNN's senior White House correspondent, Jim Acosta, asked as he was at that press briefing with White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest. And here's this exchange. Listen.

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JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Getting back to Lisa Monaco. You said she's overseeing the federal response on Ebola.

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Well, again, I hate to be nit-picky here, but what she's really doing is she's coordinating the activities of all the government agencies who are themselves responsible for responding to specific areas of their own expertise. So she's not overseeing that. She's not responsible for coordinating --

ACOSTA: (INAUDIBLE) she's in charge of the overall response?

EARNEST: She's not responsible for coordinating the activities of the international community. So the point is --

ACOSTA: I'm interrupting you because you feel like you have a point to make, but you understand my question that -

EARNEST: Well, no, I think the point that I have to make is directly relevant -

ACOSTA: You seem to be reluctant to say who's in charge of the federal response to Ebola.

EARNEST: Jim, I think that I am reciting very clearly to you who specifically is responsible for which activities when it comes to this government's tenacious response to Ebola.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: So, did you have an answer out of that? One man who has been at the center of the nation's response is CDC director Tom Frieden. And today we know Friden is going to go to Capitol Hill, face tough questions from members of the House Energy & Commerce Committee, and my next guest is chairing that hearing. He is a Republican Congressman, Tim Murphy of Pennsylvania.

Congressman, thanks so much. We know there have been calls for change at the helm of this crisis. What do you think? Do you think CDC director Tom Frieden should resign?

REP. TIM MURPHY (R-PA), HOUSE ENERGY & COMMERCE COMMITTEE: I think Dr. Tom Frieden needs to continue to focus on doing this, some missteps were made out of the administration in terms of handling this, whether it's the assumption the screenings in the hot zones in Africa would work, no restrictions on travel. I think those decisions have to reverse.

Ultimately, the president is in charge of this. He is the one responsible, and he has to get the best advice from everybody. Congress needs to be a solid partner in this. We will authorize and provide whatever is needed. And some of the questions we're going to ask today of CDC and other agencies is what do you need in terms of supplies to help here, in Africa, and also dealing with advancing in a rapid form dealing with the vaccines for this.

CABRERA: You've come back from recess to hold this hearing to be able to ask those questions. Is Congress, if you get the answers that can move this process forward, is Congress ready to come back and take a vote or would that even need to happen?

MURPHY: I think there's a lot of funding that the Health and Human Services has, the secretary at his disposal to advance funding with these. If there's other organizations need we will do whatever is necessary. We recognize this is a dangerous disease. It is deadly. But just doing the -- the policies in place now have not been adequate. And if changes are necessary and Congress has to act, we'll do whatever is need.

CABRERA: The president has vowed, quote, "a much more aggressive response." I want you to listen to what one nurse wants him to do.

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KATY ROEMER, REGISTERED NURSE: We issued a letter today to President Obama to use his executive authority to mandate that hospitals follow standardized protocols and procedures throughout hospitals in the United States, so that we can be safe and provide care to patients.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: So Representative Murphy, would you like to see the president in this case use his executive powers?

MURPHY: I'd like to see the president use his executive powers to begin to restrict travel. That's the key thing. Isolation and containment of this deadly disease is incredibly important. Dealing with hospitals, somewhere down the road.

In the meantime you have issues over the folks from customs are going to trust that people say whether or not they've been in a hot zone. You're going to trust that their temperatures are taken accurately. You're going to trust they're not part of that 13 percent who may not have a fever but may be carrying and have symptoms.

There's a lot of gaps there that the best way to do it is deal with the things from Africa, help the people in Africa as much as we can, provide resources there. But I'll tell you, if you asked me a week ago if hospitals were ready, they assumed they were ready. Now they realize they are not. Hospitals across America are much more aggressive in mandatory training of their employees starting from the emergency room moving on of what to do if people present with symptoms.

CABRERA: You are among the growing chorus to call for flight restrictions to cut off flights perhaps between here and West Africa, especially those three countries that are most hard-hit right now with this Ebola epidemic. But we've also heard from health care officials, from the World Health Organization, saying cutting off travel, making these restrictions, is only going to make it harder to fight the outbreak. How do you respond?

MURPHY: Well, I don't agree, nor is my oath of office to deal with the World Health Organization. Mine is to protect and defend the people of the United States of America. And that being said, we can bring charter flights, we can bring whatever supplies, equipment, personnel, non-government officials, charitable organizations, all those can move rapidly and continuously into areas where they are need.

The idea that is presented that somehow this is an issue with not wanting to cause economic distress to a fledgling democracy is not a primary concern. Our concern is this disease, and this disease wants to be that unwelcome stowaway on passengers coming into the United States and we have to stop that from happening.

CABRERA: Congressman Tim Murphy, thank you for your time. Good luck at the hearing.

MURPHY: Thank you.

CABRERA: Still to come, U.S. travelers departing the Ebola zone are presenting problems for their bosses when they get home. We'll talk about how employers need to react, what employees should be asking for, when we come back.

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CABRERA: Precautionary or an excess of caution? Three relatives who visited -- who were visited by Ebola infected nurse Amber Vinson when she did not have symptoms, so theoretically she should not have been contagious at that point, but they have been told now to stay away from their jobs at Ohio's Kent State University. But important to note, no one from that university has actually been quarantined. The school's action reflects a similar concern for a number of employers right now. How do you deal with workers who are returning from the Ebola zone, who perhaps have had contact with someone who has Ebola?

CNN legal analyst Paul Callan is joining me to discuss this. Let's talk about both sides of the coin here. First, let's talk about employees' rights. If you go to Africa, if you have contact with somebody even here in the U.S. like these nurses did, do those people have a right legally to be entitled to stay home and continue to get paid?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Not necessarily. The standard that employers legally are allowed to use is what does the science say? And of course while there's so much fear in America, whenever we interview a doctor, they say there's not that much to be afraid of. It's not that contagious.

So the standard is are they symptomatic? Are they feverish? Are they sick? In that case they would have to stay home. Otherwise, they would go to work like anybody else.

CABRERA: So an employer can't say, hey, we better be careful and you need to stay home? They can't order their employee to stay home.

CALLAN: Well, I think they could if they were paying the employee. Because I can picture a situation, for instance, where, say, a supermarket was afraid they would go out of business if people thought that someone who was exposed was handling food. So as long as they're going to pay the employee during the 21-day period, the employer can do it. But they can't just send you home and say we're not going to pay you, unless there's a scientific support or reason to do that.

CABRERA: Have we seen similar situations, and have employers had to deal with this before?

CALLAN: Well, yes, because it works both ways. What about nurses who say I'm not going to go into that emergency room. I'm not going to take care of that patient. Your hazmat suits are ineffective. Look what happened in Dallas.

There are meetings going on all over the country now of hospitals -- as a matter of fact, there's one coming up today in New York today because I was talking one of the top hospital labor lawyers today -- everybody is trying to get the protocol in order to see what nurses can do, what patients can do, and how we deal with this. There's a lot of chaos out there right now.

CABRERA: I want to read you something. Part of the chaos has been there have not been direct messaging, the communication breakdown in all of this. You have an opinion piece on CNN.com and I want to read just part of it.

It says, "So where is the reassuring guy with the beard and the fancy naval uniform festooned with medals who warned us for so long about the dangers of smoking? We don't notice government officials are missing until a crisis emerges. Now, when Americans perceive what's happening with Ebola as a national health crisis, the seat of the 'doctor in charge' remains empty."

Pretty critical.

CALLAN: I'm talking about the Surgeon General of the United States. Where is he? We don't have a Surgeon General. We have an acting Surgeon General. But the appointment of a new Surgeon General has not occured. Regina Benjamin resigned in 2013. We're in the middle of this -- at least what the American people thinks is a major health crisis. Why don't we have a doctor in charge? Congress fighting with the president. It's pretty disgraceful at a time like this that we don't have a Surgeon General.

CABRERA: It goes back to partisanship getting in the way of doing their jobs.

CALLAN: Well, yes. Both sides have their reasons for not having approved the nominee. But they better get together and get it done, because the American people wants to see the doctor-in-chief telling them how to handle themselves.

CABRERA: All right, Paul Callan, thanks for joining us. Good to see you.

CALLAN: OK, thank you.

CABRERA: The next hour of NEWSROOM begins after a quick break.

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