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CNN NEWSROOM

ISIS Advancing; Texas Nurse Contracts Ebola Virus

Aired October 13, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being with me.

We begin with Ebola. All the precautions appeared to be taken and, yet, this young woman, this nurse in Dallas, Texas, has contracted the Ebola virus from her patient, Thomas Eric Duncan. This marks the first known transmission of Ebola on U.S. soil from the patient who died last week.

A short time ago, CDC director Dr. Tom Frieden said state and federal health officials are reexamining protocols for handling these Ebola patients, but added they still don't know the specific source that led to this nurse getting Ebola. The CDC says the nurse is clinically stable.

And happening right now, President Obama is meeting with senior members of his administration to discuss this Dallas Ebola case -- cases really now and review the national preparations being made.

Let me bring in our senior medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen, who is there at that hospital in Dallas.

And so here's -- what we do is that of 40 or some people who are in contact with that patient who died last week, none is showing any kind of symptoms of this virus, which is wonderful news. Are they still being monitored?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It certainly is, Brooke.

Yes, they are monitored until 21 days after their last contact with Mr. Duncan, which means that they are being followed sort of as a group until October 19. But the fact that they have gotten this far without getting sick is really good news because on average people get sick between sort of eight to 10 days after their last contact, and we're well beyond 10 days.

BALDWIN: Let's talk about the personal protective gear that the doctors and nurses have to wear and placing items on in perfect succession, so that they don't get Ebola.

I was just talking to a doctor about this. And so you have learned about some inconsistencies in the types of gear and the process of even putting this stuff on. Right?

COHEN: Right. The CDC is really trying to figure out what went wrong here and they

may we may never find out exactly what went wrong. There may not have been an aha moment of what went wrong. But they think that there might have been an inconsistency in the type of protective gear she was wearing.

There are different kinds and maybe she wasn't always wearing the right kind. Secondly, there might have been inconsistencies with how she was putting it on or how she was talking it off. I'll tell you, Brooke, that hospitals that are sort of larger than the one here, teaching hospitals, hospitals that specialize in dealing with biohazards, they drill for this kind of thing.

It's not easy to put this on right and it's not easy to take it off right. This is a hard thing to be told, OK, you may never have done this before. You may never have done it many times. Now we need you to do it and treat an Ebola patient.

BALDWIN: That was this doctor's point sitting next to me. They have to be trained and not a lot of them are being trained. Elizabeth Cohen, thank you in Dallas.

Let's focus a little bit more on this nurse. We're starting to learn a bit more about this young woman in Texas from people who know her, and although her name has not been officially released, we know she took on one of the toughest jobs any nurse in this country can face right now and absolutely has the strength and support of her nursing community.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BONNIE CASTILLO, REGISTERED NURSE RESPONSE NETWORK: That not one more health care worker or nurse should be infected. In this country, we have the resources to contain and eradicate, but only as what the nurses just said, with proper training, interactive training, drills, preparation, adequate resources in terms of protective personnel equipment.

We can do that in this country. We are resourced. But instead we have hospitals picking and choosing what to do and unfortunately they are not stepping up to their responsibility to ensure that our hospitals are safe, and we are not going to be silent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: We hear the calls from the nurses they need the training, but so many of them thank goodness are stepping up to do the job.

Tom Ha knows one of them. He knows this Texas nurse. He's known her for a number of years, taught her Bible class at an area church.

Tom, nice to have you on.

TOM HA, FRIEND OF NURSE: Hello. Yes. Welcome.

BALDWIN: Thank you. HA: I'm glad to be here today.

BALDWIN: Wonderful. Let me begin with this young woman who again we're not naming. But once this young woman learned about her situation when she was infected, I know she called a member at your church and explained what has happened to her. What can you share about that emotional conversation?

HA: At this moment, we really don't know exactly how it happened, but as just a community, we are shocked when we hear that news.

And she comes from a family that is of very strong faith. I don't -- surprised when I heard that she has more than her duty called for in order to make sure the patient is having a chance to survive. And at this moment, we have been able to communicate in the community that we are with and then share the sympathy and we are organizing prayer for her family.

BALDWIN: You have said that when she called, she cried with you. You cried with her.

HA: She cried with other member, the female member of the church. At that time, I was in a meeting. And then everyone at the church was crying at that moment anyway, yes.

BALDWIN: You have known her, Tom, since she was in the eighth grade. Can you just tell me a little bit about her?

HA: This lady, the nurse, I know her sister when she was in my school and we know the family real well. As a matter of fact, the mother is the member, active member in what they're calling the Legion of Mary at our church.

And we met with the mother almost weekly during our meeting and also doing the charitable work for the community. As far as this nurse is concerned, she's a very devoted Catholic and she always puts the other people's interests ahead of her own and she's a very devoted person to serve the community.

BALDWIN: Compassionate, giver, I read. She's a recent graduate, 2010 graduate of Texas Christian University. And just reading an article in "The Dallas Morning News" a friend was quoted who said she was so excited when she was accepted to nursing school, realizing that it's a tough gig. Pretty compassionate young woman.

HA: Yes, you're right about that. I think that she takes it more than a career. I think it's a vocation. Her family from the time when we met, they always serve other people and they take pride in helping other people. That's what this family is all about.

BALDWIN: It's wonderful. We wish her a healthy recovery. Tom Ha, thank you so much for joining me in Dallas. You have known this young woman, this Texas nurse who has Ebola. Thank you so much.

(CROSSTALK) BALDWIN: Just ahead, the waste from the apartment of that first Ebola

patient, the one who came over from Liberia to Dallas is apparently headed to a landfall in Louisiana.

The state's attorney general says, no, no waste here, refusing to accept that waste. We will tell you what happens to it.

Plus, breaking news in the war against ISIS, as bombs are dropping in a key border city. We're getting word that Iraqi security forces have just bailed on a very important base near Baghdad. How vulnerable is that capital city? Fareed Zakaria joins me next.

You're watching CNN's special live coverage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

In this fight against ISIS, the bad guys are winning. That's precisely what we heard from Senator John McCain speaking on CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: First of all, they're winning and we're not. And the Iraqis are not winning. The Peshmerga, the Kurds are not winning. And there's a lot of aspects of this, but there has to be a fundamental reevaluation of what we're doing, because we're not degrading and ultimately destroying ISIS.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: ISIS is gaining ground in the Syrian town of Kobani right at the Turkish border, and it's happening despite firepower from the U.S.

We believe this is video from an airstrike. You see this massive plume here in Kobani. Central Command says there have been seven of them today and Sunday talking to our crews there as well. Also, while the Kurds are fighting these house-to-house battles to save this border city in Syria, the Iraqi military has abandoned another military base in Anbar Province in Iraq, just west of the capital.

We're told forces burned equipment before leaving. Huh. Local officials say ISIS brought in another 10,000 fighters to tighten its grip on Anbar and now just one base is left under Iraqi control in the province which as you can see on the map is precariously close to Baghdad.

Joining me now is Fareed Zakaria, host of "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS."

So, always great to have you on as a very smart mind on all of this, beginning with this notion that the Iraqi army bailed from this base. There was one remaining in Anbar Province. Talking to a general a moment ago, he said not so significant. You disagree.

FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN WORLD AFFAIRS ANALYST: It's very significant. What it tells you, it's not significant in the sense, militarily,

Baghdad will hold for reasons we can talk about. What's significant here is that it tells you that the Iraqi army has collapsed, that there is no real Iraqi army, because what those -- those bases where people are giving up, surrendering, these are all Sunnis who don't want to fight ISIS, Sunnis who don't want to fight fellow Sunnis.

What you're seeing is revealed that you scratch the surface of the Iraqi army and it's a bunch of sectarian militias and the Sunnis will not fight against ISIS because they don't like the Baghdad government.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: They don't have that national -- that regard for a nation. It's like tribe, sect, nation.

ZAKARIA: They think the nation -- at this point the Iraqi government is being run by Shia. And so they in a sense don't like ISIS, but they like the Shia government in Baghdad less. So what we have to come to grips with is, this army that doesn't really exist.

BALDWIN: Billions of dollar poured into this army, Fareed Zakaria.

ZAKARIA: Billions of dollar poured into it, because it was based on the idea that there was an Iraq, that there was a nation that there would be a national army for.

Maybe we need a different strategy, which is to stand up sectarian militias, Shia militias, Sunni militias. They already exist. And the Kurds have their Peshmerga, that model. Send them into fight in their areas, not in other areas, where they would be regarded as a foreign army.

That's giving up on a lot, but if you look at events on the ground, that's what reality is telling us.

BALDWIN: OK. The reality with regard to Turkey, U.S., a lot of people wondering their role would be moving forward. We now know. We watched the parliamentary vote, that Turkey is now saying to the U.S., U.S., OK, you can use our country as this launch pad to bring your troops in and to fire rockets and whatnot.

Do you think -- how significant is that move, A, and, B, do you think that could be the next step toward maybe some ground troops from Turkey?

ZAKARIA: Turkey is absolutely crucial, because they're the one serious army in the region that borders the ISIS forces that has capacity and that has the determination and that has the interest at stake.

Turkey has been -- it has put its head in the sand for so long, trying to believe we don't have -- we don't need to get involved and they have allowed again their petty issues to overwhelm them.

BALDWIN: Is this them pulling their head out of the sand just a little bit?

(CROSSTALK)

ZAKARIA: I think they're beginning to pull their head out of the sand. What they have been worried -- just God knows it gets complicated enough.

What they have been worried about that -- so the people in Kobani are Kurds. They don't want Kurdish forces to get stronger, which then might produce Kurdish separatism, which Turkey worries about because Turkey has lots of Kurds. They are trying to sort of limit the degree to which the Kurds, the ethnics Kurds in the area...

BALDWIN: And they can't put all that aside and just fight the terrorists, bottom line?

ZAKARIA: And they can't put that -- because they don't feel that they're threatened. They feel that ISIS will stop at their border. And they're probably wrong.

And so what you're seeing is everybody -- and everybody wants the United States to sweep in like a knight in shining armor.

BALDWIN: And fix it.

ZAKARIA: Fix it for them so they can all free-ride on the United States. And I think one of the things we have to recognize is if the United States stays back and forces some of these governments in, they're going to get involved. They are threatened. This is their region.

We're 8,000 miles away. But, of course, they would much rather the United States come in and we have got all the firepower and Washington has all the firepower. Who wants to fight if the largest military in the history of the world is willing to do it for you?

BALDWIN: You hear that? Final question, Baghdad, how vulnerable? Do you worry about that?

ZAKARIA: I don't worry about it a lot, because the truth is that because Baghdad is now the Shia capital of Iraq, there are lots of Shia militias. There are lots of -- the army is Shia, they will fight until the end.

(CROSSTALK)

ZAKARIA: And, remember, the Iraqi army, even in its currently reduced state, it is several hundred thousand. ISIS may have 10,000 or 15,000 people. They are outnumbered 10 or 15 to one. The weapons that the Iraqi army has are much better.

And these guys have the will to fight because they want to preserve the Shia control of Baghdad.

BALDWIN: I love having you on, Fareed Zakaria. Thank you so much.

ZAKARIA: Pleasure.

BALDWIN: Thank you.

Coming up next, we are talking about Ebola and dealing with all the waste coming from the Ebola patients and their homes, getting rid of the biohazard material key to trying to prevent the spread of Ebola, but now this one state scheduled to receive some of this waste from Texas says no. Can they legally turn it away?

Plus, the president dealing from multiple crises, Ebola, ISIS, how's he doing? My next guest calls him the -- quote -- "disappointer in chief." Is that fair? We will debate with someone who used to call President Obama his boss next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Besides trying to manage the spread of Ebola in the U.S., health officials now have to manage the waste collected from the homes of these infected patients. Where to put that biohazardous material is causing yet another crisis here. One state on tap to receive the waste says no. That state, Louisiana, they don't want it.

CNN senior investigative correspondent Drew Griffin is following this dispute from Atlanta.

Drew Griffin, can they legally say no?

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Well, they can legally say they're going to fight it, which is what the Louisiana attorney general did and may have won.

I will give you an update on this in a second. But let's first talk about what this waste is.

BALDWIN: Sure.

GRIFFIN: This is waste that was gotten out of Duncan's apartment, the fellow in Dallas. They bagged up that waste. They brought it to a facility and they pretreated it and they disinfected it.

Then they put it into 55-gallon drums. They took those drums to an incinerator and they burned it all at 2,100 degrees and turned it into ash. Brooke, it's that ash that the attorney general of Louisiana doesn't want. This is what he says in a statement.

"There are too many unknowns at this point. And it is absurd to transport potentially hazardous Ebola waste across state lines."

What's absurd is to think that this ash contains the Ebola virus for anyone to possibly get infected. We talked with an expert on this just a few minutes ago. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. GAVIN MACGREGOR-SKINNER, PENN STATE UNIVERSITY: He needs to be given the scientific advice and evidence that we have that we know that drying kills the virus. Incineration is going to kill the virus. But then again, if he's concerned, you do a simple test on the waste and you show there's no virus in there. And we know that's a waste of money and a waste of resources because that virus is dead.

Now, it's not infectious, has no risk, zero risk to the environment, to people, to anyone being infectious.

GRIFFIN: Be that as it may, Brooke...

BALDWIN: That was crystal clear.

GRIFFIN: Yes. It's crystal clear, right.

But be that as it may, the attorney general I guess wins in this case. I just am reading this statement from the chemical waste company basically saying -- I can't read it all -- but basically saying, look, we're backing down and we're not going to send it to this waste facility.

The problem, Brooke, this attorney general in Louisiana is now adding to the hysteria over Ebola. I mean, burned-up ash waste is not a threat to anybody, but now he's set a precedent for all of these attorney generals to keep this waste out of our landfills. It's too bad in this case, but there's no danger after waste has been incinerated and turned into ashes that it somehow contains a live virus.

BALDWIN: I hear you on the hysteria, and hopefully this will be the last time we have to talk about a state saying no now that we know it's not an issue. Drew Griffin, thank you very much for me. I appreciate that.

Just ahead here, the story inside of how ISIS terrorists recruited inmates, this is fascinating, these inmates who were held by the U.S. during the Iraq war.

Plus, my next guest calls President Obama the disappointer in chief. Hear why. And one of President Obama's former aides responds to that live. Stay with me.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: He has been called naive. He has been called an idealist, but is Barack Obama a failed president?

While certainly world crises have stacked up abroad and the debate back home is heating up. Aaron David Miller in his "The Washington Post" piece -- quote -- "President Obama, disappointer in chief," writing Obama will never be considered great or iconic, that -- quote -- "This president's fate has been the same as that of many recent predecessors -- the job is just too big and expectations just too high."

On the flip side, you have Paul Krugman in his "Rolling Stone" calling in defense of Obama. He writes: "Obama has emerged as one of the most consequential and, yes, successful presidents in American history."