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CNN NEWSROOM

"Not A Snowball's Chance In Hell"; Cops Pepper Spray Teen In His Foster Home; No Charges For Palins In Brawl Incident

Aired October 9, 2014 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Let me add one more name to the list here who will have an opportunity to expand on his thoughts, General James Conway. He headed the U.S. Marine Corps and was commandant from 2005 to 2010.

So, General, welcome.

GENERAL JAMES CONWAY, FORMER U.S. MARINE CORPS COMMANDANT: Hi, Brooke. Thank you.

BALDWIN: Nice to have you here.

CONWAY: Good to be aboard.

BALDWIN: So let me quote you. This is a quote heard all around the world. You can elaborate. So you apparently recently were at a political conference saying that the president's ISIS strategy, quote, "doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of succeeding." Those are harsh words, sir. What do you mean by that?

CONWAY: I appreciate the opportunity to elaborate quite frankly. The question was asked about the administration's overall strategy and my comments actually were that in Iraq, I think there's as much as a 60 percent probability that the concept can succeed.

Because what you have in Iraq is a new government that's seems to be all inclusive. You have I think refurbished Iraqi military that's going to move out I hope pretty soon.

The Kurds who are Kurds who are pretty guys, and then our old tribal chieftain buddies in the Anbar Province who helped us with the awakening in '06. So I think you have elements for a potential success with troops on the ground and American air support in Iraq.

My contrast was Syria where none of those things exist so at this point with the program as I understand it and such as it is, I would defer the colorful language, but still say that I don't see the probabilities have changed for success in Syria.

BALDWIN: So given the state of affairs in Syria right now that we don't have the Iraqi security forces and the Peshmerga as it were there, how would you change the strategy?

CONWAY: Well, I think strategy has to evolve. I think it's a good scenario that the Turks are going potentially going to engage. You absolutely have to have troops on the ground if you're going to have successful airstrikes. If I could take -

BALDWIN: Whose troops?

CONWAY: Well, troops who understand the process.

BALDWIN: Who would that be?

CONWAY: It can be -- I read this morning Australians may be coming into Iraq. They certainly have done it before with us. Iraqis can be trained. It's not a complicated process. It's just that you have the equipment and the understanding. It's always best certainly if we enjoy that advantage in the Marine Corps.

BALDWIN: Do you think Americans are necessary in Syria on the ground?

CONWAY: Ultimately to be successful, yes, and the reason for that is there are two types of airstrikes, if I can take just a moment. Essentially one is pre-planned where you generate intelligence. You identify the targets. You build a package and you go hit that target under whatever priority list is established.

You don't need troops on the ground necessarily to do that. The other type is immediate airstrikes and there you commit aircraft to a pattern over the battlefield, put them in a stack, but they are called down as required by the troops in contact.

They identify the target. They identify the potential for civilian casualties. You always have to be concerned about that when you are dropping bombs. They ideally provide a target mark and they coordinate the actual strike.

And if you're not doing that, you are relegated then to what I think we're seeing today, which is largely armed reconnaissance, which means you load up the bombs.

You go out searching for a target and look for ISIS guys doing jumping jacks in the open somewhere and probability is they are not real great.

So that's the difference in terms of what we have at work right now and I would just offer that there has to be a man in the loop. Speaking English and talking to the pilots if they're American pilots.

BALDWIN: A man in the loop on the ground who would potentially be American.

CONWAY: Yes, Ma'am.

BALDWIN: So that's interesting. So recently hearing from Leon Panetta, Secretary Panetta talking to our own Gloria Borger, you know, really had a lot praise for the president, but sort of saying he arrives at his decisions and takes him a little while to arrive.

You have sat with -- you have been a member of the top brass as it were sitting around these big tables, closed door meetings, watching the president, and seeing the cogs churn, what does it look like, his thought process, and what do you think of it?

CONWAY: Well, of course, I worked two years with President Bush and two years with President Obama, and they are distinctly different I think in terms of input and output. The things I observed under President Obama that he's a very good listener.

He seems to absorb it all. He might have a little bit of a different cast of people in the room from President Bush, but that's fine. And frankly we didn't receive decisions at those points where we were in the tank with the president.

We visited him a couple times in the White House and once again it seemed to me there was great deal of absorption and penetrating questions to elaborate on what we may be offering in terms of best military advice. But I think decisions were made at a little later point in time.

BALDWIN: A little later point in time. How would he react if you were to speak up and perhaps disagree with the visionary strategy?

CONWAY: Well, that was our job.

BALDWIN: To disagree with the president?

CONWAY: Well, now once a decision is made, you'd certainly do not disagree. But in the discussion, joint staff believe me do not always have the same impression or recommendation to the president on critical issues. That's why we do it very much in private and behind closed doors.

But during those periods of discussion, it was your individual responsibility to speak your opinion and voice your experiences. I thought he received those very well.

I mean, I think in the end that's very good for him to hear those things because it gives him the diversification of opinion and it sort of searches out all the various aspects of what has to be some very tough decisions to make.

BALDWIN: You know, hearing from Hillary Clinton she's been critical recently, but it was just last night she said, I believe her words were ISIS is more powerful than al Qaeda. Do you agree with that?

CONWAY: Well, certainly more brutal.

BALDWIN: What's the difference?

CONWAY: Well, al Qaeda was certainly brutal. But ISIS has turned it into an art form and they have played it on international airwaves and media to the degree that I think people are just repulsed by what they see. ISIS in my mind is al Qaeda of Iraq revisited with a lot of lessons learned in their backpack.

BALDWIN: To strengthen them to make them more sophisticated?

CONWAY: You can overstep it with the local tribes which I think they did in Iraq and that's what caused the Sunnis to rise up and take them out. So I think they're going to be more careful with that this time. I think -- I honestly think they made a strategic mistake.

BALDWIN: Who are they?

CONWAY: The ISIS, in going conventional as soon as they have. They have probably found some unexpected success in the Sunni areas because again my personal opinion, Brooke, is that the Sunnis kind of use them to send a message to the Maliki government that you mistreated us for eight years and this is what can happen.

But right now, I see that there's an evitable clash between ISIS and the Sunni tribal chiefs in Anbar Province in particular because as these guys start to consolidate their caliphate, they are not going to want people out here that don't buy into their rhythms. And the Sunni tribal chief I assure you do not.

BALDWIN: You talk about Anbar Province that makes me think of Baghdad. Do you worry at all about Baghdad falling?

CONWAY: I don't worry about Baghdad falling. I think that they are within range of Baghdad International and they'll demonstrate that they can put a mortar round on the airfield from time to time. Again, I think it has a lot to do with international media attention.

BALDWIN: Secretary Kerry suggesting it was close.

CONWAY: They are closer than we would like them to be, but I don't think they have combat power to take Baghdad. I don't think they have combat power to get in the south where the Shiite oil fields are around Basra to take those oil fields.

So my conjecture at this point is that they have about shot their bullet. They have about climaxed in terms of what they can actually take in terms of ground notwithstanding some places back in Anbar Province further to the west.

But I don't think they have combat power to go farther, which tells me that this idea of starting to consolidating what they have gained is the more likely course of action for them in the coming weeks and months.

BALDWIN: I guess, my final question is this, looping all the way back to your point about yes, ultimately there may be a need to have this American voice on the ground to communicate and to be integral in this whole dismantling and destroying of ISIS.

But again I go back to the majority of Americans, 73 percent of Americans say, yes, they favor the airstrikes, 60 percent oppose sending in ground combat troops. I know it is the president's job to be the commander-in-chief to lead.

But what message, if he ultimately decides to send in those troops, what message is he sending to America who at the moment is not interested in that? CONWAY: Well, Brooke, I would say two or three things. One, he sends a message I hear you, my fellow citizens, but I am in this office to lead and I'm going to do that.

Secondly, he can tell them that when you declare war against another nation or in this case non-state actors, you have crossed the Rubicon and when go to war you go to war to win, to accomplish your intended mission.

And if I were advising the president today, I would say to him, sir, your best bet here is to tell us what it is you want to accomplish. Give us the mission. Tell us what you want it to look like in terms of in state.

Give us your commander-in-chief's guidance that you want to maximize American airpower, but minimize the number of ground troops that are in play and then let your commanders come back to you and tell you what that needs to look like.

I would like to think if the president can then tell our countrymen that this is what my military experts tell me is necessary to win this fight, then I think it's easier for him to accept what may be criticisms from certain parties, but that this is real and serious and we've got to win this thing.

BALDWIN: General James Conway, thank you, sir, so much. Thank you for all your service to our country as well. I really appreciate that.

Coming up next, police respond to a call about a burglary and pepper spraying a teenager in his own home. The teenager is black and his family is white.

And he says that played a part in this whole thing. Police though they tell a different story. We'll tell you both sides, what both sides are saying next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Yet another accusation of excessive force by police. This time, though, the encounter not outside on the street, but inside the home of a foster child who got pepper sprayed.

This teenager faces no charges after the incident Monday in North Carolina. He's 18 years of age, African-American, and his foster family is white.

And police say officers had to pepper spray him after he became aggressive. They entered the home after someone called 911 about a suspicious person. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED CALLER: I'm seeing some suspicious person walking around in my neighbor's yard across the street. A black kid with what looks like dreadlocks. He walked down beside the house. It looked like he may have walked in the house. Don't know that for sure.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: CNN's Victor Blackwell working this one for us. Victor, did police believe Curry?

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They certainly did not and yet he walked into the home because it's his home. This happened Monday afternoon in a town just outside Raleigh in North Carolina. Police, three officers, walk up to this home.

At least one with his gun drawn and down the stairs comes the 18-year- old, who says, what are you doing in my home? Why are you here? Well, they tell him to put his hands up, identify himself and asked him where does he live?

He says I live here. Well, they frisk him and take his I.D., but the I.D. does not match the address at the home because they just moved there two months prior, Brooke.

And one officer says that he became aggressive when the questioning went on. He even says he started to get angry. According to the police report he cursed at them. He said he would hit them although he never did.

When they tried to cuff this teenager, he swung his hands away and jerked away and his arm hit the officer and that's when they pepper sprayed him. One officer actually says he looked at the pictures on the mantel and didn't see him there.

Listen to him and his mother and their reaction to what happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DESHAWN CURRIE, PEPPER-SPRAYED BY POLICE: Really? Because I'm black, you know? The kids are white so you believe I don't stay here because of some pictures on the wall?

STACY TYLER, FOSTER MOTHER: My 5-year-old didn't understand why they hated him and wanted to hurt him. My husband had nightmares the first night about having to fight the police off for being in the wrong house.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So what are police saying? How are they responding?

BLACKWELL: Initially they released just a really short statement, but as this got more attention, they now released an extended statement. I have a portion of it.

"The police department does not engage in nor does it condone racial profiling. At no time during this event was race a factor. The police department responded to a call from a concerned resident of England Avenue who had not previously seen Mr. Currie at this home." Now while they say race wasn't a factor for them, it was for the person who called police because according to the reports, this neighbor said he knew that a white family with small children lived there.

But he had never observed a black male at the residence and he was concerned for his neighbors of the recent car thefts and burglaries in the community.

BALDWIN: Victor Blackwell, thank you very much.

Coming up, we've got new information on that fight involving the Palins from last month. So now we're getting our first look at the police report, which has a lot of details on what happened and what Sarah Palin did right after punches were thrown. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: We have some new details today involving the so-called Palin family brawl. It happened last month. Police were called to this party that Sarah Palin's family attended. This fight broke out and apparently involved the Palins, allegedly included former vice presidential candidate, Sarah Palin herself.

So now, flash forward, we now have the details as far as what happened that night. So, Joe Johns, let me bring you in, our senior Washington correspondent. Let's look at the charges.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: First, let me say, it's like a series of statements that they put out. And according to Anchorage Police Department, there will be no charges filed, Brooke, pertaining to this incident at a house party that the Palins attended in September.

The case is now considered closed and Anchorage Police Department has basically released a report of the brawl. People who were there included Todd Palin, his children, Track, Bristol, and Willow. Sarah Palin apparently was present according to the statements, but stayed out of the action trying to get it all under control.

So how did it get started? Not entirely clear. But according to the statements Willow Palin alleges that an older lady pushed her and that Bristol Palin went toward the woman to confront her about pushing her sister.

And then the documents paint a picture of Bristol Palin getting pushed to the ground by the owner of the house at the same time, Bristol said she was called a slut and dragged around the grass by her feet.

According to the statement of the owner of the house, though, Cory Klingenmier, it's a different scenario. He says he tried to keep a fight from breaking out and he went as far as to let Bristol Palin hit him in the face five or six times.

And after just about the sixth punch or so, he says he grabbed her fists, pushed her back, and she fell down. He said three or four guys came after him saying they were going to beat him up. A fight broke out according to Cory Klingermier's statement.

The Palins end up losing the fight. Todd Palin was apparently on the receiving end of some of this, also, and apparently had people piling on him before his son came to the rescue.

Difficult to describe all the details of a melee, however, it seems clear that authorities are saying no charges will be filed. Authorities say this apparently was alcohol-related.

BALDWIN: Yikes. Joe Johns, thank you.

Coming up next, a nearly 40-year-old manhunt for a murder suspect may be over. A viewer called in a tip to the FBI after CNN aired an episode of John Walsh's "THE HUNT" here on CNN. We'll tell you where police are now looking for the suspect.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Listen to this, the FBI says a man they've been looking for, for nearly 40 years may have been underground for the last 33. And when I say underground, I don't mean in hiding underground, I mean, dead underground.

The FBI received a tip after CNN aired an episode of John Walsh's "THE HUNT" that featured Brad Bishop.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dug a shallow grave.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He just didn't dig this hole in 15 minutes. It took some time to dig it three-feet deep.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He then placed all of the bodies of the family members in that shallow grave.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: And it was a tip that led them to Alabama today where a Man's body was exhumed. Rosa Flores is following this story for us. Let's just begin with Brad Bishop. Who is he?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Goodness, Brooke, so many details. But let me just say that all of this -- this is why I find is so fascinating, it could go back to a case from 1981.

BALDWIN: Wow.

FLORES: Where an unknown man gets hit by a car and he gets buried as a John Doe. So what do we know about this man, Bradford Bishop, in particular? So he is this intelligent man. He's an international diplomat with posts all over the world.

Yale grad, speaks about six languages and then he allegedly goes into a hardware store, buys a sledgehammer and a gas can and before you know it, he is wanted for the killing of his wife, his mother and his three sons.

Now, he allegedly goes to Columbia, North Carolina, digs up that grave. That's the scene that you were just watching, digs up a shallow grave and buries these five people and lights them up. He burns them.

Now, this is back in 1976 in Maryland. So what happens? Through some detective work, investigators actually go back to the bishop home and find this horrific crime scene, a horrific crime scene that these investigators describe.

So it's awful. And so what happens? He's on the run. There's no sign of him. Nobody knows. And for years, only three sightings were brought forward and then that was it. He was lost. He was gone and then he's added to the FBI list.

BALDWIN: All these years later, we have 30 seconds. We air "THE HUNT" on CNN and what happens?

FLORES: So here's the back story. So back in November of last year, the local newspaper posted a photo of this man from 1981 that gets hit by a car and our tipster takes a look at that back in November.

Fast forward to this year, the FBI adds William Bradford Bishop to the "Most Wanted" list and there is the photo. CNN airs "THE HUNT," the man puts two and two together, calls the FBI and here we are.

BALDWIN: It's incredible. We'll see what happens. Obviously there are more fugitives out there. Make sure you check out the cases. You can reach our tip line cnn.com/the hunt.

Rosa, thank you very much. I'm Brooke Baldwin. "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts right now.