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@THISHOUR WITH BERMAN AND MICHAELA

Airport Ebola Screening to Begin; Kobani Expected to Fall to ISIS; ISIS Tightens Grip on Kobani; Interview with Decontee Kofa

Aired October 9, 2014 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JOHN BERMAN, CNN CO-ANCHOR: The fight against Ebola, big changes coming to an airport near you, but is this about disease management or public relations?

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN CO-ANCHOR: ISIS is tightening its grip on the key town of Kobani as Turkish tanks linger just across the border. The Pentagon admits air strikes won't save that Kurdish city.

BERMAN: And horrifying new information about the jetliner the United States shot down over the Ukraine, tragic details about just how much the passengers knew.

Hello, everyone, I'm John Berman.

PEREIRA: And I'm Michaela Pereira. Those stories and much more, ahead @THIS HOUR.

But we want to smart first with new Ebola fears here in the rise. A Dallas deputy is now hospitalized with possible -- we repeat, possible -- symptoms of the virus. A Texas health officials says Sergeant Michael Monnig has no risk of the disease despite having entered the apartment where patient Thomas Eric Duncan had stayed.

Duncan of course was the first diagnosed in the United States. He also was the first patient to die of Ebola in the United States. He died yesterday at a Dallas hospital.

Authorities say Sergeant Monnig did not have any direct contact with Duncan.

BERMAN: Starting tomorrow, people arriving in the U.S. from the three nations hardest areas hit by Ebola, they will be screened at five major airports. Patients will face temperature checks and questionnaires. Those screenings will take place first at New York's JFK Airport, then, next week, these other airports will follow suit -- Washington Dulles, Newark, Chicago O'Hare and Atlanta.

Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson gave us details on how the screenings will work.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEH JOHNSON, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: The protocol is, first of all, you see customs. Our customs personnel are very skilled at examining people, assessing people for a variety of residence, and we're asking passengers to fill out a declaration about what symptoms do you have, are you feeling ill, where have you been the last 21 days, and where will you be for the next few days?

And through a noncontact thermometer, we're going to be taking the temperatures of every passenger that comes from one of the three effected countries.

If you answer positive or you test for a high fever, the passenger is immediately referred to the CDC.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: I want to bring in internist Dr. Jorge Rodriguez and Lawrence Gostin, a professor of global health at Georgetown University.

Professor Gostin, I want to start with you here. We're talking about people coming from these three west African nations. It's a handful. It's a few dozen, several dozen every day.

Do you think this will actually be effective in stopping the next Thomas Eric Duncan from getting into the United States, catching him before he gets to somewhere like Dallas? Or is this really more about public relations and management here?

LAWRENCE GOSTIN, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY: Well, it's certainly, of all of the political pressure placed upon the president to do mass fever screenings or travel bans, I'm glad he took that off the table. This was the most measured and moderate approach.

But it's not foolproof, anywhere near, because most people will be asymptomatic for Ebola, the way that Mr. Duncan was. And you'll have a lot of false positives. We're entering influenza season so people will be feverish. They might have malaria if they came from the region which masks the symptoms of Ebola.

And so we're probably going to get a lot of people who really are worried well but are -- don't have Ebola. So it could divert resources.

You know, it's at least not the most extreme measure the president could have taken.

PEREIRA: You talk about measured and moderate. I think those are words that we here at CNN are seeking to keep urgency on the matter, but also not --

BERMAN: Perspective.

PEREIRA: Right, perspective is really key.

To that end, Dr. Jorge, I want to hear some sound with you, and I want to play it for you.

The CDC director, Dr. Tom Frieden, compared this Ebola to the AIDS epidemic. I want you to take a listen. And I want to get your reaction on the other end. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. THOMAS FRIEDEN, CDC DIRECTOR: I will say that in the 30 years I've been working in public health the only like this has been AIDS, and we have to work now so this is not the world's next AIDS.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: Does he have a point? Do you have the same concern, Dr. Jorge?

DR. JORGE RODRIGUEZ, INTERNIST: Yeah, you know, it is a very -- it's a good analogy. It isn't identical.

A friend of mine who is a doctor said maybe people are becoming too crazy about this. I wish somebody had done or been this alert when the AIDS epidemic was down to 7,000 people infected as opposed to now the 50 million.

It's definitely not the same type of virus. In a way. Ebola is almost a little better, if I dare that, in the fact that is has a short lifespan whereas you can be infected with HIV for 20 years and spread it during those years.

But his point is, if we don't do something now to prevent its spread, it can get to those number of people, so in that case, I definitely agree that it's something potentially that's disastrous.

BERMAN: And it also is something going on in the part of the word that needs attention, much like the AIDS epidemic did when it began here in the U.S. largely in the 1980s.

RODRIGUEZ: Correct. Yeah, and, you know, another thing is also the stigma that's already starting with people from western Africa. That's a very dangerous thing if you feel that only certain people can carry this disease and spread it.

So that has to be wiped out immediately because that's one of the things that caused HIV to spread was the stigmatization of the disease.

BERMAN: Professor, I've been getting a lot of questions online from people. They have serious concerns, obviously, about Ebola, and there is a question about Sergeant Michael Monnig. He is the deputy now who's being monitored because he was worried. He wasn't feeling very well.

Rudy Herrera tweeted: how does Dallas officer start feeling ill but not patient zero's partner? I think he means Louise Troh here.

PEREIRA: Yeah.

BERMAN: I think one possible answer might be that this guy has a cold. I think everyone thinks this is likely not Ebola.

But for a second let's say it's not just a cold which officials seem to think it is right now. It could very well be what? That he had contact with fluids that she did not?

GOSTIN: I mean, the -- first of all, what happened in Dallas can't be repeated. There were multiple breaches of protocol, and this was one of them. It wasn't the worst. But it was one of them -- going into a contaminated apartment that hadn't been decontaminated as it should have been and doing that without personal protective equipment. That's a clear breach.

It's very unlikely that he has Ebola virus disease. It's much more likely he has flu, cold, some gastrointestinal disease, something like that. But we need to be vigilant. But it really shouldn't happen.

We had ambulance workers taking Mr. Duncan without protective equipment. His contacts remained in the apartment while it was still contaminated. He was turned away from the hospital.

These breaches of protocol really have to be fixed, and I think our health system is doing that.

PEREIRA: Dr. Jorge Rodriguez and Professor Lawrence Gostin, thanks for joining us.

We were talking about that this morning on "NEW DAY," how some hospitals, we heard, in New York are sending actors in to sort of test out how procedures for Ebola training are being followed, because they want to make sure they are ready.

And hopefully other hospitals and medical centers around the nation are doing their own versions of those kinds of drills so they can be prepared, because everyone, every medical person we talked to, says preparation is key.

BERMAN: Look, and if it's not see Ebola, it's something else, you know, SARS, something else down the line. It can't hurt. It's a good idea.

All right, eight minutes after the hour, outrage in Spain after a dog gets put down because of Ebola concerns. But can dogs really get Ebola? And if they do, can they give it to humans?

There's a lot of misinformation out there. We will tell you what the science says.

PEREIRA: Big story over the summer, of course, was the plight of thousands of children to the border from the Mexican border -- coming to the United States from the Mexican border.

Well, now one congressman says ISIS is exploiting that same broken border. We'll discuss this. We'll try to find out where the proof is, if he has any.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: All right, welcome back. I want to show you some live picture from the Turkish side of the border, looking at Kobani, Syria, our live camera here showing a big plume of smoke. Our team on the ground believes it is from an air strike, but it gives you an idea of ongoing unrest that is going on there.

New developments overnight in the fight against ISIS as the situation in the key Syrian town of Kobani reportedly getting worse, and if those images are any indication, witnesses telling CNN that militants now have reinforcements as street-to-street battles rage on.

A group monitoring the combat says ISIS controls now a third of the town. Seen as the last link from ISIS's self-declared capital of Raqqa, all the way to the Turkish border. Pentagon officials say they're bracing now for Kobani to fall.

BERMAN: Some other developments, a teenager from the Chicago suburbs due in federal court any minute, accused of trying to hop a plane to join ISIS. Mohammed Hamzah Khan was apprehended Saturday at O'Hare Airport.

A search of his parent's home turned up a letter laying out his plan and inviting his family to join the terror campaign.

PEREIRA: And fears of ISIS in the homeland, a Republican congressman makes a stunning claim about militants infiltrating the Mexican U.S. border, but the nation's homeland security chief says there's no evidence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPRESENTATIVE DUNCAN HUNTER (R), CALIFORNIA: I know that at least ten ISIS fighters have been caught coming across the Mexican border in Texas.

JOHNSON: We have no specific intelligence that ISIL is plotting to come into the homeland through our southern border. But we're constantly on the lookout.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: I want to turn back now to the Syrian/Turkish border. Our correspondent, Phil Black, is there. Here in the studio, our military analyst, retired Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona.

I think we have to begin with you, Phil, because you're right there. We see that plume of smoke coming from your cameras on the Kobani side. What are you seeing, what are you hearing, what are you experiencing there?

PHIL BLACK, CNN INTERATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Michaela, let's show you that skyline shot again. That is Kobani towards the southwest.

Today, we've seen again the B-1 bomber overhead and seen multiple explosions around the perimeter of the city, a number off toward that direction where you see that thick smoke rising now. Something has clearly has been struck, and it is burning.

But fewer attacks today than in recent days, and the Kurdish forces on the ground report a much tougher day of fighting, partly because they say ISIS was not distracted by more frequent air strikes around the city, but also because they say that ISIS has sent reinforcement from Raqqa, its de facto capital, deeper into Syria.

So the battle harder. The territory that they had taken back from ISIS overnight, they say they have to give up because they don't have the people, don't have resources. This is still very much a fight that is not going their way -- Michaela.

BERMAN: We see those amazing pictures behind Phil Black right now from the Turkish side of the border.

I was on with Phil earlier today and he showed me a different amazing picture, Colonel. He showed me a line of Turkish tanks at the border watching Kobani burn. Not just watching, though, keeping Kurds inside Turkey from getting to the fight or even resupplying the people there.

So my question to you, Colonel, is -- and I think we have to be frank about this. What does Turkey want here? Because it doesn't seem what they want is to help the Kurds in Kobani and there are critics who suggest what they actually want or they're perfectly OK with, you know, are the Kurds being weakened?

LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I think that's a fair assessment. You know, there's -- you know, Kurdish-Turkish relations are bad and they've been bad for decades. So the Turks are not in a rush to help the Kurds on that side. And they're using the Kurds as a pawn with the United States because they want us to declare a no-fly zone over Syria, and they want us to be involved with them in a ground campaign.

Two things which probably are not going to happen. So what we see is the Kurds being used in the middle of this.

PEREIRA: I want you to listen to what a foreign U.S. ambassador to Turkey and Iraq had to say on "NEW DAY" earlier this morning. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES JEFFREY, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO TURKEY AND IRAQ: The areas that the ISIS people recruit from, they're going to see this as a dramatic ISIS victory despite U.S. air power. That's not good.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: Do you agree?

FRANCONA: Yes. Air power can only do so much here. And the problem is even with that B-1 circling, and the B-1 carries a tremendous bomb load, the problem is, and I was talking to a couple of people that are involved in the operation, and they're telling me that the pilots are having trouble distinguishing the good guys from the bad guys, from the air and they will not drop --

PEREIRA: You've warned us about that. That very issue. FRANCONA: Yes. They won't drop because they're so worried about

killing friendly forces. I mean, it -- capable aircraft but you need eyes on the ground to do this effectively when you've got troops in contact.

BERMAN: Phil, I want to get back to you right there on the Turkish border right now watching what's going on in Kobani along with those Turkish troops lining the border. These Turkish troops are now part of this coalition but the question is, with allies like this, who needs allies?

You know, what is Turkish saying? How are they justifying these? And what are the Kurds on that side of the border saying? I understand there've been demonstrations, even people killed inside Turkey.

BLACK: Yes, they have, John, that's right. They're not -- they don't necessarily want Turkish troops to come running to their rescue as it's been touched on the relations between the Kurds and Turkey, pretty distressful at best. What they want most actively, I think as you mentioned there, is for the gate at the border crossing to be thrown open so that they can at least be resupplied. They can get more fighters, ammunition and supplies.

And they believe under those circumstances, if the airstrikes maintain a similar intensity to what we've seen over the last few days, they believe they hold a chance of holding out longer. Without that, well that chance reduces pretty dramatically. No one is of any doubt, I think, about just where the momentum of this battle is heading. It does all point to the imminent fall of Kobani at some point, just a matter of time in waiting.

But they are hoping to hold out as long as possible. They are appealing for as much international assistant as possible -- John.

PEREIRA: Pentagon strategy seems to not be so concerned with that individual city, about the larger swath that they're concerned about.

Our Phil Black, our thanks to you. Thank you for the tremendous storytelling and reporting there.

BERMAN: As Kobani burns behind Phil Black. Literally behind him.

PEREIRA: Behind him, we're watching it happened as we speak.

Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona, always a pleasure to have you here.

We turn to Ebola now as the family of the first Ebola victim to die in the U.S. comes to grip with the reality of their loss. Another Ebola widow talks with us about coping.

Ahead @THISHOUR, Decontee Kofa explains how she is trying forge ahead with her life and dealing with the stigma of Ebola since her late husband Patrick Sawyer succumbed to the virus.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REV. GEORGE MASON, WILSHIRE BAPTIST CHURCH: She really was thinking and all of them were thinking that there was a lot more hope and that he was on his way up instead of down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: That was the Reverend George Mason of Wilshire Baptist Church in Dallas speaking there about the fiancee of Thomas Eric Duncan. A prayer vigil for Duncan was held last night at Wilshire Baptist which is where Louise Troh worships. She is in quarantine. She was unable to attend.

The local media reports say she was able to watch the service as it was streamed online.

PEREIRA: There's one woman who knows all too well about how Duncan's family is feeling right now.

Her name is Decontee Kofa. Kofa also lost her husband to Ebola and she joins us now.

Decontee, I've had a chance to speak with you a couple of times since Patrick's passing. And I know one of the things you said that you wanted to do was to provide some support to Louise and her family because you are in an emotional place where you sadly can relate to what she's going through.

Have you had a chance to talk her yet?

DECONTEE KOFA, FOUNDER AND EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, KOFA FOUNDATION: Yes.

PEREIRA: And if you haven't what would you like to say to her?

KOFA: Yes. So we haven't had a chance to talk with Louise yet. Understandably so. She's going through so much and I know what that feels like. And sometimes, you don't even want to talk with anyone. And so I would just like to reach out to her and again wrap my arms around her and letting her know that you're not alone, sister. You're not alone.

It's tough, I can empathize with what you're going through. And it is unique to you. So I may not fully understand all of your emotions but I have -- went through similar and I can really, really emphasize. And so I just -- my prayers, my prayers goes out to her. And I will continue to make an effort, in fact, we're planning a trip down to Texas to reach out to Louise because no one should be alone during this time. And that's what Ebola does, it isolates you. It isolates you.

BERMAN: What does it do to the community, and by that, I mean, perhaps the Liberian community or the West African community in Dallas right now? There are a lot of people there who are saying they feel isolated, that they feel, in a way, almost discriminated against. A sense of fear. KOFA: Yes. There is a fear. And that fear is real. And that fear

does exist that people feel isolated. And then on the other hand, I can see the folks who may be the one isolated and who are afraid of getting Ebola. And that fear is real, too. Right? So something needs to be done fast because we can't continue this pattern.

PEREIRA: What do you think -- what do you think the things are that need to be done? It's interesting, we've been talking to a lot of medical professionals. And obviously in terms of --

KOFA: Yes.

PEREIRA: You know, handling fear and managing people's concern about the spread of Ebola here, we have seen medical professionals doing what they can to make sure that all of our medical centers are prepared and ready in the case they have. A patient come and present it to their hospital that seems sick. But it's not just the preparation. It seems to me that there's an awareness that needs to, I don't know, be spread around the nation, too, no?

KOFA: Yes, yes, yes. There's that awareness that needs to be spread around the nation as well. There are certain things that, you know, let's talk about the red flags here. Duncan being sent home, you know, his first trip, so a man from Liberia, you know, where Ebola is rampant, comes to a hospital, and I think mentioned that he was from Liberia. I'm not 100 percent certain. But I'm thinking that's what it was, and he was sent home when he talked about his symptoms.

So just that -- those little things that should be red flags that say hey, let's keep him here and let's do some tests are the sort of things we want to look at. But then also to be compassionate, first and foremost, so even if those red flags do go up, these are human beings. We're people just like you. You know, treat me how you would want to be treated. So even though we may be afraid, that fear is real but at the same time know that you're dealing with another human being who has feelings just like you.

BERMAN: You know, you're in the United States now obviously looking at what's happening here and also looking at what's happening in West Africa. What do you make of the level of engagement here and in some of the Western countries with what is happening in those three countries?

You know, I was struck by, you know, this dog was put down yesterday which was very sad, but 390,000 people signed a petition, you know, in support of this dog. I'm not sure I've seen that same level of concern for what's happening in some of these countries?

KOFA: Yes. Yes. It's -- we're slow. We're slow. It's taking us a while to catch up. And to be at that level of concern that we should be. We unfortunately here a lot of the times in the U.S. care more for our animals than we do for our neighbors. And that's sad. So we need to definitely work on that. But there are a lot of good people who are stepping it up. Who are concerned.

PEREIRA: There certainly are. KOFA: And I want to recognize that, too.

PEREIRA: And there's a lot of people that are -- we know, there's a lot -- certainly a lot of missionaries and medical professionals, doctors, nurses, and assistants that are -- that have headed over and have committed their lives to working with the people that are fighting that battle when it seems like we're losing in West Africa.

Decontee, thank you so much for making yourself available to us. And we hope to stay in touch with you, OK?

KOFA: Thank you so much for having me. And again, we at the Kofa Foundation are at the frontline of this fight and so you can visit our Web site at kofafoundation.org. And yes, we're taking donations. So please help us out. Thank you.

BERMAN: We need you. We need people like you. Thanks so much.

PEREIRA: Thanks, Decontee.

All right. So we talked about what you're mentioning. The dog put down in Spain because his owner has Ebola. The question is that many are wondering, can dogs and other household pets get Ebola? And more importantly, can they then transmit the disease to humans? We'll ask the doctor.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)