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NEW DAY
How Concerned Should We Be About Ebola?; Interview with Dr. Michael Osterholm; What's Next For the Secret Service?; Grading Obama's Response to Ebola Diagnosis
Aired October 3, 2014 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, thanks so much, John.
A patient diagnosed with Ebola in Texas, we know that. It's running rampant in West Africa. Ebola patients being flown back to the U.S. including now we're learning that another American, turns out he's a freelance cameraman with NBC was diagnosed in the last few days.
We hear at CNN are talking endlessly about Ebola the last few days. Do we need to? Is Ebola worth the hype or are we missing a bigger picture?
We want to bring in Dr. Michael Osterholm. He is the director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy. He joins us from beautiful San Francisco. Thanks so much for joining us this morning, sir.
All right, so you've written a series of strongly-worded op-eds. A few weeks ago one of them came out in the "New York Times," called what we're afraid to say about Ebola. I'm curious if your concerns have quelled or if they've increased since writing that op-ed?
DR. MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH AND POLICY: Actually unfortunately they've increased. As much as we have responded with promises to do something, when you actually look what's happening on the ground, they're not materializing.
So we're actually responding with programmatic bureaucracy time, when the virus is moving in virus time. The situation in West Africa continues to deteriorate.
PEREIRA: Clearly a difference in our timing structures there. You're absolutely correct. What is it that you think that we're afraid to say about Ebola?
OSTERHOLM: Well, I think part of it is the fact that it's a disease that's in Africa, it's not here and somehow we can isolate ourselves away from it. And in fact, that's not the case, if this continues to grow in numbers, and does start to spread throughout other parts of Africa, this really is a very serious destabilizing factor for all of Africa.
And you know, we have many infectious diseases we need to be worried about. Frankly more people have died in the past year in West Africa from HIV and TB and diarrheal diseases, but none of them destabilize the area. So we've got to understand that we can't respond in weeks and months. We need a response now and that's not happening.
PEREIRA: Long-term but also immediate treatment now. I do want to push back slightly on something that you said, about the concern, and I'm not going to argue with you about the concern.
But Dr. Sanjay Gupta on our air yesterday talked about the fact that there is a very real concern that influenza alone, flu, the common flu, kills tens of thousands of people. Do we need to put this in perspective at all?
OSTERHOLM: Well, first of all, this is in part a media issue. You all have helped define what is scares us versus what hurts us, versus what worries us, versus what really kills us, and I think that's a really big point to make here, is that yes, if you listen to your program this morning, we're so focused on what's going on in Dallas.
I must tell you that we're all concerned about Dallas and we need to get that right in the future. But those sparks from West Africa are going to continue to fly all over the world if we don't contain it in West Africa.
Look at all the resources and time and effort, besides human suffering that's occurred just in Dallas. We have to stop the situation in West Africa and we're not doing that and we're not doing that in part because we are responding again so slowly.
The way we're going to stop this in West Africa number one is try to provide the treatment beds, get people out of the communities, follow their contacts as has been talked about many times and the second thing is we need a vaccine.
We can't do this in routine time. We have got to crash this program with major resources. If we don't, you can pay me now or you can pay me later. We'll end up paying for this.
PEREIRA: And sadly, we'll pay with lives is the stark reality. Interesting because in the article, you actually uncover something that's quite disturbing and I'm almost reluctant to bring it up because I think it is going to add to over-hype and panic. But you mention that there's a possibility that this virus could mutate to become transmittable through the air.
OSTERHOLM: Well, first of all, we shouldn't be afraid to talk about it there's --
PEREIRA: You can understand why it's going to frighten people.
OSTERHOLM: Well, I think again it's all in context. It hasn't happened and the part of it is just like what you're asking the question about Dallas, why aren't we more prepared?
So we need to be prepared for the eventuality this virus has been transmitted via the respiratory route between some in primates or monkeys. We know that's the thesis of the book the (inaudible) and so what we have to do ask is ourselves the question, what would we do if this should happen like that?
What would we do to be prepared for it? What would we do if this virus moves out of these three countries and it moves into Nigeria or it moves into cities like Kinshasa or Nairobi? We have to have plans now for that. We don't want to make those plans up just as they happen.
PEREIRA: Is there also a chance that it could mutate into something less lethal?
OSTERHOLM: Absolutely. It could over time become much less lethal virus. But what we're talking about is for the foreseeable months. We are going to be living with West Africa as it is today and we have to understand that we just can't continue that situation.
PEREIRA: Certainly some food for thought. You can read these articles online. Some strongly worded op-eds, appreciate your thoughts, appreciate your candor, Dr. Michael Osterholm, thanks so much for joining me this morning.
OSTERHOLM: Thank you.
PEREIRA: Clearly the Secret Service also needs a fix. It will be a while before we learn who the president has in mind to run the agency. A former Secret Service director weighs in on the shocking security lapses and whey thinks needs to be done going forward.
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CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: The Secret Service will likely be without a permanent director until at least December, Julia Pierson, as you know, resigned under pressure in the wake of several embarrassing security breaches under her watch.
An interim director has been named, but there's plenty of work ahead to repair the agency's image. Let's bring in Ralph Basham, he was the director of the Secret Service from 2003-2006. He has nearly 40 years of federal law enforcement experience.
He also testified at Ms. Pierson's congressional hearing earlier this week. So great source for understanding this situation. Mr. Basham, thank you very much for joining us.
RALPH BASHAM, FORMER DIRECTOR, U.S. SECRET SERVICE: It's good to be here, Chris.
CUOMO: Now you defended Julia Pierson at the hearing. I want to ask you, why don't you think that the slow to deceptive responses to the last fence-jumping breach and the armed contractor, the security guard in the elevator, why don't you think that those justified a change at the top?
BASHAM: First of all, in my testimony I did defend the director, but I also was defending the incredible job that the Secret Service agents, the men and women who are tasked with this incredibly difficult mission do on a daily basis, there is no denying.
The events of September 19th at the White House and the issue with at the CDC in Atlanta are clearly unacceptable breaches in the security of the president and the White House. And I think what is important now is that we have to move on.
We have to understand what happened on September the 19th. Why were the decisions made or not made, and you have to dig down into that. And understand that and fix those problems. Get, understanding what was going on at the CDC to better understand why these things are happening.
And the services had these incidents over the years. Yes, the service strives for 100 percent perfection, but you know, you and I both know in this world, that may not be possible.
But when you have these mistakes, you've got to look at them, understand them and make corrective actions, whether it's process or protocol or training or leadership.
CUOMO: The Secret Service is being painted as broken right now. Do you think that that is a gross exaggeration? Is this about tweaking what already works or is this about rethinking the entire model?
BASHAM: That is an excellent, I think that is an excellent point and no, I do not think the Secret Service is broken. Look, just two weeks ago, they were up in New York and were protecting something in the neighborhood of 150 heads of state to include the president of the United States, went off without a hitch.
They do this on a daily basis, but the failures, obviously have to be dealt with, and now I think with a new director they've got to restore the confidence of the American people. They've got to restore the confidence of the Congress.
And they've got to move on and the new director has to have the confidence of the president and the White House, but he has to also or she also has a great opportunity here.
CUOMO: Right. Joe Clancy is the interim director, he's got good buzz and good experience within the service. A lot of people are saying he should get a fair shot at the job, this is his tryout.
He was there though during Salahi-gate, for lack of a better word. The people who gate crashed and got into the White House. Do you think that affects his credibility? Does he come in tainted?
BASHAM: Well, again, as I pointed out, the service strives for 100 percent perfection, but they will have these incidents occur, but with that particular incident. There was a lot of, there was breakdown in many quarters there.
They reviewed that and they've made taken corrective action. And you learn from that, and Joe, I'm sure, learned from that. He is well highly respected at the White House. He's highly respected among the rank and file. And he has a good contrary to what some are saying, he has a good team there at the Secret Service as managers. It's very unfortunate, they're painting with a broad brush, the services is incompetent and that's just absolutely not correct.
Take these incidents, take these incidents that's occurred and use them, he's got, he's got the wind at his back right now. And they can make some longstanding you know, concerns at the White House, to be correct.
CUOMO: That's the hope because political outrage is easy. We see it all the time. It's often more heat than light. We'll stay on the story because as you say the goal is improvement.
And that's not necessarily politician's forte, but it should be the work of the government. We'll stay on the story. Mr. Basham, we appreciate you staying with us and help us stay on point with this going forward.
BASHAM: Thank you, Chris, very much.
CUOMO: Thank you, sir. Have a good weekend.
Officials in Dallas, we're going to be getting back to them because they're getting some rough reviews on their response to our nation's first Ebola diagnosis. Remember, this isn't about how bad Ebola is, it's about are we ready for anything if it does get bad?
And how about President Obama? Our political panel is going to weigh in next in terms of what the White House is doing here.
And we have programming note -- season four of "PARTS UNKNOWN" debuts this Sunday, 9:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific on CNN. This week, Anthony Bourdain checking out the boogie-down Bronx, discovering the foods that make this borough unique. We'll talk with Anthony in the next hour. But first, take a delicious look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Bronx is so multifaceted. But for some reason, this is the first place I always take people because this just oozes and emanates kind of that flavor of the Bronx.
ANTHONY BOURDAIN, CNN HOST, "PARTS UNKNOWN": He knows what I like. Places like this, 188 cuchifritos on 188th Street in the Grand Concourse, old-school, New York Puerto Rican good stuff. Get within 20 feet of this place and prepare to lose your freaking mind.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cuchifrito is a fried pig. Here's the tongue chopped up and deep-fried.
BOURDAIN: Off cut, big parts deep-fried, what's not to like about that. The shank there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're get that in there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Big piece of cicharon. So skin chopped up.
BOURDAIN: Skin and fat.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Almost like a little meat candy bar.
BOURDAIN: That's amazing.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES O: In the unlikely event that someone with Ebola does reach our shores we've taken new measures so that we're prepared here at home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: That was President Obama just two weeks ago describing the chances that someone with Ebola would reach the United States, not so unlikely at all as it happen. The man in Dallas is infected with Ebola.
One hundred other people now being monitored for possible symptoms. The president has pledged federal support to Dallas, but there is a question now, is he doing enough?
I want to bring in CNN "CROSSFIRE" host, Van Jones here with me and also CNN political commentator and Republican strategist, Kevin Madden, a safe distance away in Washington.
Van, I want to start with you here and read you something that Ted Cruz, a senator from Texas admittedly no fan of the president has said about Ebola. He wrote a letter to the FAA and he released a statement that said, "Due to the Obama administration's unclear approach to addressing the threat of the Ebola virus, Americans particularly the Texans who possibly have been exposed deserve specific answers to how the administration is addressing travel to and from the countries impacted by the disease."
Leave aside the travel for a second here, he said the unclear approach to addressing the threat of Ebola, is that fair?
VAN JONES, CO-ANCHOR, CNN'S "CROSSFIRE": It's not fair. It's certainly not fair coming from Ted Cruz. You know, government is always the enemy until you need a friend. Ted Cruz helped shut America's government down, this time last year, including the CDC.
Luckily he wasn't engaged in those shenanigans this year because it turns out you need the CDC, you need America's government. I'm very concerned that there is nothing bad that can happen to America that a certain section of Republicans won't try to use to attack the president.
The good thing about this country right now three things, we have the military that can go over there and respond. We have a CDC that's strong funded and aggressively dealing with this, and by the way, we have Obamacare.
Now a lot more people if they get sick, they can go to a doctor and get checked out. The government is working and actually a good thing America's government is working right now. These cheap shots are not appropriate.
BERMAN: Kevin, I'll get to you in a second. But Van, all of those things didn't keep a nurse from not telling people this guy had come from Liberia and had contact with people with Ebola.
But Van, all those thing you just listed there don't seem to be helping these four people locked in apartment complex with dirty sheets and towels. There doesn't seem to be a system in place. Obamacare didn't put a system in place for that. So there are certainly kinks in this system.
JONES: Look, listen, this is a new situation for the United States, but we are responding aggressively and responding well. I think the idea somehow President Obama is responsible for all of us, we have unclear response.
We have a very clear response. There's been a very aggressive response from this government both overseas and here. Ted Cruz is once again trying to score political points.
Right now, we need good information, not misinformation, not panic information, not don't trust your government information. Let's work together with the government to get this thing handled.
BERMAN: So Kevin Madden, doesn't Van have a point? Part of me thinks if there were a very strong, very public federal government response and 1,000 federal health care workers all of a sudden jumped into Texas right now. I'm not so sure that states rights Senator Ted Cruz would be jumping up and down welcoming them, am I right?
KEVIN MADDEN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, John, I don't think many Americans look at this through a partisan lens. I think the only way you can really judge the president and by fiat the administration, the government's response is based on their actions.
And if you look at the actions taken so far, assets have been deployed to Africa, resources have been deployed to Africa, the resources and assets have been deployed to Dallas. The administration has insisted that they've been in close contact with CDC officials there.
That's the way that you have to judge the response, and it's going to be a long time when we see whether or not that response was adequate. The other thing, too, to Van's point, I do believe that there is an incredible amount of skepticism right now.
That the American people have about the government response because there is a confidence crisis. The government hasn't been very competent and good. Every time they said don't panic and don't worry about it coming here, now we actually see that it is here. So you can see why there is a certain level of justification about the American public skepticism of the federal government's response.
BERMAN: To be fair they said it's unlikely that it's going to come here, but doctors like Sanjay Gupta and CDC Thomas Frieden have always said if it explodes in Africa the way it has in West Africa, the three nations, it was going to get somewhere. The idea it could become an outbreak here, Van, was very unlikely.
JONES: Well, right now, we don't have a global pandemic. Not everywhere in West Africa. Nigeria beat this thing. It's isolated to a couple of countries. Let's be clear in the United States we have very different conditions here.
We don't have those burial traditions where we touch dead bodies. We have better hygiene and sanitation. So we have better opportunity to keep this thing contained when it does pop up here or in other countries.
The smartest thing we can do is what the president did, send troops there, set up shop there to keep this from becoming a global pandemic.
BERMAN: I don't think Kevin is not here. I think we generally agree here. The United States is doing much more in these three countries than any other country on earth. Other countries are $90 million behind. Kevin Madden thanks for being with us. Van jones, appreciate it.
The expanding U.S. effort in West Africa will help combat Ebola. Will it help slow the epidemic that now it has at least in one person made its way to American soil? We're going to speak to the Pentagon's press secretary and have the latest developments in Texas ahead.
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