Return to Transcripts main page

@THISHOUR WITH BERMAN AND MICHAELA

Update on Ebola; Wife of Ebola Patient Speaks Out; Turkey Responding to ISIS; Should U.S. Troops Fight Ebola?; CNN's Ten American Heroes

Aired October 3, 2014 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: It's been three days since the first time Ebola has been diagnosed on American soil. Let me give you an update of what's going on @THISHOUR.

The apartment in Dallas where Ebola patient, Thomas Eric Duncan, first became systematic has not been sanitized. This commercial cleaning crew contracted to do the job was turned away for not having the proper permits. The CDC director tells CNN they are still working on it. Still, four people are quarantined inside that apartment still. The Dallas County Health and Human Services director tells us that the Ebola situation is, quote, "under control." He says the family with whom Duncan was staying is being monitored. He says there's no outbreak so everyone should just ease their fears.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Meantime, another American, a freelance journalist working to cover the crisis for NBC in Liberia, has tested positive for Ebola. Ashoka Mukpo will return to the U.S. on a private chartered plane on Sunday. The 33-year-old was hired by "NBC News" as a freelance worker on Tuesday. Apparently, he started showing symptoms Wednesday. Nancy Snyderman, NBC's chief medical editor, she and her team are being flown home. They will quarantine themselves for 21 days, which we know is that maximum incubation period for Ebola.

As his girlfriend, her son and to two nephews remain quarantined in the apartment where Thomas Eric Duncan first fell ill, health officials in Dallas are still trying to reach out as-to-as many as 100 people who may have come in contact with that Dallas patient.

BERMAN: Joining us to talk about this, Dr. Jorge Rodriguez, an internalist who's led all kinds of clinical trials; also with us, Professor Arthur Caplan, director of the Division of Medical Ethics at NYU's Langone Medical Center.

Dr. Jorge Rodriguez, let me ask you this. You were on with us before talking about processes, how to handle this type of situation. Well, now we know that three sheriff's deputies in Dallas are on leave as a precaution because they went inside that apartment where those four people are quarantined. There are those four people who are quarantined. Does this look like a good process to you so far?

DR. JORGE RODRIGUEZ, INTERNALIST: No. No, not at all. The way I look at it, there are four things we need to look at with this epidemic. One is treatment and cure, the other one is prevention and containment. I think this country really needs to focus on establishing set policy for containment and for prevention.

The way I look at it -- and if it didn't being done already, someone either with the Department of Homeland Security or the CDC -- needs to state and create policies that say look, when someone is infected, A, this is who's going to take care of the person, this is how they're going to be quarantined, this is who's going to come in, this is who's going to feed them. Something very clear that is, quite honestly proof, almost dummy proof, so that everyone knows what the game plan is. That's what I think we should be working on right now.

PEREIRA: Speaking of game plan and process, I want to turn the this patient, Duncan, who we know had his temperature taken in Africa, we know he was give an questionnaire to fill out, and we're being told from Liberian officials that he answered "no" to the question of whether he'd come in contact with anybody exposed to Ebola at all, and now we hear word Liberian officials are talking about prosecuting him. I want to ask you on an ethical basis here. Is it appropriate to prosecute someone? Is it vilifying the victim? Or is this the right course of action when you consider the chain of events that could potentially come of this.

DR. ARTHUR CAPLAN, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF MEDICAL ETHICS, NYU LANGONE MEDICAL CENTER: It's the right course of action because the only value of questions and screens if you think you're going to get in trouble.

(LAUGHTER)

So you have to threaten. Are they going to prosecute him and throw him in jail for this? I doubt it. But I think what they're saying right now is, hey, we might. You better start answering us honestly. Do I think the screening is aggressive enough? No. I've been in airports just yesterday, didn't see any signs up anywhere, didn't see anything that said if someone next to you seems very sick, throws up, you do what. I agree with what we just heard.

We still, this far into the Ebola outbreak, don't have a standard set of procedures to say if you're traveling and you see someone who's ill --

PEREIRA: Do this.

CAPLAN: -- do this. If you have flu symptoms -- we're starting flu season -- don't worry unless you've been near somebody with Ebola, it's not that disease, but I think we'll get a lot of panic. We need that. We have to do better.

BERMAN: You're an expert on medical ethics. Is it ethical what's being done with these four people shut in that apartment in Dallas? What do you think?

CAPLAN: I think the ethics of quarantine, I'm going to say yes. And the reason is it's the state of Texas who controls diseases inside the state. It's the CDC who does it between states or at the borders. The state has the authority, no doubt about it, to say we have a deadly infectious disease, we're going to hold you.

(CROSSTALK)

CAPLAN: We're worried you might get it. What they haven't done -- we heard about this in the news -- they didn't set up a way to clean that place, they haven't set up a way to dispose of anything that was in there, blankets or things that he may have slept on. Who's giving the food? Are they going to give him videos? I mean, they're being locked up for our sakes, not just for their sakes, so you have to kind of help them go through it. 21 days with two 20-year-olds and a kid in there, I believe? You want to help out a little bit. And who's protecting their job? Who's paying the bills? You have to really --

(CROSSTALK)

PEREIRA: That's real aspect there as well.

CAPLAN: It's real aspects that you have to take seriously. You can't just padlock the door and run away.

PEREIRA: Yeah, a lot of issues there. A lot of threats to the story.

Professor Caplan good to have you with us.

Dr. Jorge, joining us from Los Angeles, gentlemen, thanks so much.

Ahead @THISHOUR, I had the opportunity to speak with the wife of an American who died of Ebola. She says there needs to be more compassion, less fear, less stigmatizing. Don't miss her strong message ahead.

BERMAN: And despite air strikes, ISIS now in a key city on the Syrian/Turkish border. But now, for the first time, Turkey is doing something about it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: So here in America, one woman knows all too well what it's like to lose someone you love to Ebola and she is trying to help other victims cope. Her name is Decontee Kofa. She lost her husband, Patrick Sawyer, an American, back in July. Sawyer was the first American to die in this outbreak. He died at a Nigerian hospital after traveling from Liberia. Kofa has since started a foundation to support families of Ebola victims. She's working hard to fight against misconceptions and fear about the disease.

I spoke to Kofa earlier, on "New Day," about the Ebola patient and his family in Dallas.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DECONTEE KOFA, WIFE OF PATRICK SAWYER & FOUNDER, DIRECTOR, KOFA FOUNDATION: My concern about the situation in Dallas is that people may panic and there's no need to panic, I don't believe, because thank god we live in America, the U.S., that has the best health care system in the world. And so we're able to identify, contain, and treat with compassion folks who are diagnosed with Ebola. And so this there's no need to panic. We're not going to have an outbreak like we do in West Africa. So that's the food news.

The thing is, this is a wakeup call that Ebola can come here at any time if nothing is done to eradicate it in the West African region.

(CROSSTALK)

PEREIRA: So it's a two-part thing. So let's continue talking about the vein here. I want to ask you what you have heard from the Liberian American community. You're in contact with your friends, your network, the community there, we know there are Liberians all across the United States. What are you hearing?

KOFA: They're afraid. They're afraid of being stigmatized. The Liberian American community, the members 60 that I spoke with, my own friends and family members and well wishers are -- they're afraid of being stigmatized. They don't want to be ostracized because they're Liberians, and to be labeled. A friend of mine was telling me yesterday that she went to the hospital because she had a sore throat and her doctor, who has been her doctor for many, many, many years, stood and talked with her from across the room.

PEREIRA: Goodness.

KOFA: And then she said she said to him, "I know you know I'm Liberian but I want you to know that I haven't been to Liberia in many years and I haven't gotten in contact with anyone who went to Liberia." And she just felt just weird about the situation, but could understand his fear. And so that fear is real.

PEREIRA: I want to ask you one last thing. Louise, the woman that's quarantined in their apartment in Dallas, obviously, it's a trying time for her as a mother, as a woman living here with this threat of Ebola, very real in her world. What would you say to her right now if she's watching?

KOFA: I'll say to her you're not alone. You're not alone. I'm with you, I hear you, I see you, I can imagine. I'm probably the only person or one of the few people -- well, the only person here in the U.S. that knows what you must be going through. Stay calm, listen to the instructions. Don't leave your home. We're praying with you and we hope that all is well. I will do everything in my power to reach out to you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PEREIRA: And hopefully, that will happen. She seems to believe that she's going to. She knows through a friend this family and she's hoping to talk to them and make sure they have the support.

And we've heard from our viewers that they want to see that these people and others are treated with compassion and dignity and get the help they need. And information, that's the other part, right? BERMAN: It's such an important thing because panic is a false choice.

Obviously panic is not the right answer. Compassion always is. But we also need to know what the rational concerns are to make sure they are dealt with.

PEREIRA: Absolutely.

BERMAN: Quarter to the hour right now. Ahead for us, ISIS now in a key city on the Syrian/Turkish border. So are the air strikes doing anything to beat back this terror group?

Plus, the U.S. plans to send more troops to fight Ebola in these three West African nations. But what will these troops do to battle diseases and are these troops now at risk?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Breaking news for you right now. The family of a British hostage being held by ISIS is pleading now for his release. John Cantlie's father released a video statement from his hospital bed today.

PEREIRA: Think about that for a second. From his hospital bed. He said his family is relieved to know his son is still alive but they feel a sense of "despair and helplessness that he is still captive." His voice is very difficult to make out but he says, and I quote here, "To those holding John, please know he is a good man. He sought only to help the Syrian people. And I ask you all from all that is sacred to help us and allow him to return home." Absolutely heartbreaking.

BERMAN: Looking for compassion. The question is, is there compassion to be found.

ISIS fighters now holding part of Kobani, a key city right inside the Turkish border. The terror group posted video of a dusty sign welcoming people to that city with no Kurdish fighters there to protect it.

PEREIRA: If Kobani falls completely into ISIS hands, the terror group will control territory from its self-declared capitol from Raqqa, Syria, all the way to the Turkish border.

Meanwhile, Turkish lawmakers have now voted to authorize military force against ISIS.

We want to turn to our military analyst, retired Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona.

So we have this name, Turkey saying, yes, we will conduct air strikes. Give us a sense of how concerning it is for their nation. We know that the border has been a real concern for some time. You've told us about that.

LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, they own a lot of border area, hundreds of miles of it. They are moving to the West slowly and eventually they are going to go all the way over to Aleppo, unless somebody stops them. Hopefully, that might be the Turks. The Turks have authorized strikes in both Syria and Iraq but we haven't seen them do that yet. It will be interesting to see what the Turks do. If they decide to move on the ground, that would be a game changer because they certainly have more capability than ISIS.

BERMAN: And it remains to be seen how far Turkey would be willing to let ISIS go inside Kobani.

Colonel, I want to turn gears now to Ebola. We got information in here. A Washington area hospital has admitted a patient possibly associated with Ebola. The patient is not being named. Traveled to Nigeria and, upon returning, had symptoms similar to Ebola. The patient is now in stable condition. That news we got in there.

Colonel, what I want to ask you about is this new U.S. military effort, the U.S. sending up to 3,000 troops to these two countries, Nigeria not one of them, but Sierra Leone and Liberia. How good is the U.S. military at dealing with this type of situation?

FRANCONA: The U.S. military has trained in biological warfare. They have the equipment that protects them from that and they have the training to work in that environment. Technically, they are probably capable of doing this. They will probably need a more higher quality suit but they're trained to do this. But they bring a whole wealth of capabilities. They can provide security. They can purify water and provide sanitation. They can build clinics. The Army, Air Force, the Navy, they are used to go into areas where they have nothing and create cities if they need to.

PEREIRA: One of the things I've heard people talk about is the need on the ground there, is just simply separating and isolating people that have been exposed. And that's where they can be really useful.

FRANCONA: Yeah. But we want to make sure we don't make this look like armed intervention.

PEREIRA: And when you have people going in, in military garb -- here's the question. About those sensitivities, talk to us about that. You have to be aware of the perception.

FRANCONA: Well, all of a sudden, you've got these poor nations in Africa and you see the United States military comes in there. I'm assuming they are going to be armed. Soldiers like to be armed. And they present themselves almost as a military police force. And it almost looks like they are there in occupation mode. We have to make sure that that does not happen. We have to make sure that they know we are there on a humanitarian mission and I think that's critical. Otherwise, we run the risk of the ugly American syndrome.

BERMAN: Colonel Francona, thank you for joining us.

FRANCONA: Thank you.

BERMAN: Again, the news we did just get in, the breaking news, there's a patient at a Washington area hospital right now who has been admitted with symptoms possibly associated with Ebola. PEREIRA: That's the key. We also know that in West Africa there are

several infectious diseases, other tropical diseases that can present in a similar fashion, similar symptoms they could have, things like malaria. Out of an abundance of caution, they are isolating this patient and doing some testing. We'll apprise you of any developments there are in that regard.

We're going to take a short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: Ten American Heroes nominated by you. Now it's your turn to pick the one most deserving of the title CNN Hero of the year. Anderson Cooper shows you how to vote.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, A.C. 360: Now that we've announced the top-10 heroes of 2014, I want to show you how you can choose who should be "CNN Hero of the Year" who will receive $100,000 for their cause.

Take a look at CNNheroes.com where you can learn about all of the top 10. Here's how to vote for your favorite. Once you decide who inspires you the most, click down to here on vote and a new page comes up. It shows the top-10 heroes. Choose the person to vote for. I'm going to randomly select, say, Ned Norman. Enter your e-mail address, type in the security code, and click on the vote button right down there. It's even easier to vote on Facebook. You're your selection, click over here. You can vote once a day every day through Sunday, November 16th, through your e-mail address or through Facebook. Just go to CNNheros.com. Rally your friends by sharing on Facebook or Twitter. We'll reveal your 2014 Hero of the Year on "CNN Heroes: An All-Star Tribute," a CNN tradition that promises to inspire.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So let that sink in. You can vote every day. And no fraud is related to this. You can vote one time every day.

PEREIRA: And just be clear, John is not talking about the midterm elections. He's talking about heroes.

(CROSSTALK)

PEREIRA: No, this is really great. I think what is going to be very difficult is every single one of these 10 nominees are so worthy. The work they are doing, I don't know how you choose.

BERMAN: So vote for each one.

PEREIRA: That's True. You could vote for everybody and space out your vote. That's an interesting idea. I might try it.

All right. That's it for us @THISHOUR. I'm Michaela Pereira. Have a great weekend. BERMAN: And I'm John Berman.

"LEGAL VIEW" with Deborah Feyerick starts right now.