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Obama: Intel Underestimated ISIS; Hong Kong Protesters Demand Democracy; Report: Bullets Hit Obama's Private Residence

Aired September 29, 2014 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: OK, Larry, I want to make sure you can respond to that, but I also just want to play a little something just again exemplifying multiple people and the warnings over the course of the year. Roll it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES CLAPPER, NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE DIRECTOR: Syria has become a huge magnet for extremists. First, those groups who are engaged in Syria itself some 1,600 different groups. We estimate somewhere in the neighborhood of between 75,000 and 110,000 of which about 26,000 we grade as extremists.

SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D), INTELLIGENCE CHAIRWOMAN: This leads to the major concern of the establishment of a safe haven and the real prospect that Syria could become a launching point or weigh station for terrorists seeking to attack the United States or other nations.

JOHN BRENNAN, CIA DIRECTOR: We are concerned about the use of Syrian territory by the al Qaeda organization to recruit individuals and develop the capability to be able to not just carry out attacks inside Syria, but also to use Syria as a launching pad. So it's those elements, al Qaeda and ISIL, that I'm concerned about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So Larry, that was just sort of a mash up. Those are public remarks, you know, about this threat dating back to January. Is it fair that the president says that the U.S. was taken by surprise?

LARRY HAAS, SENIOR FELLOW, AMERICAN FOREIGN POLICY COUNCIL: I think there were two different issues. On the one hand, it is possible and I'll take the president at his word in terms of being surprised by the particular strength of ISIS in particular.

It's not, however, credible to say that we did not know as the tapes are showing and as we've known for years anyway through a commentary and observation that Syria in the aftermath of the 2011 uprising was not going to be somehow a safe haven for terrorists.

The opposition became more radical. Assad was losing more land. We knew clearly that there were an increasing number of ungovernable areas that radicals were taking over. So for sure we knew that Syria had great potential as we are seeing come to pass now to become a new safe haven.

And now unfortunately through ISIS is not just in Syria, but it's across a broad section that includes a large part of Syria and Iraq and that makes the situation so dangerous right now. It's less about a particular group as it is about a safe haven that we need to disrupt as we're trying to begin to do with these increasing airstrikes.

BALDWIN: Listen, I can't even begin to imagine what it's like to be president and briefings behind closed doors and threats globally, you know, toward us, the United States and just vying for his attention in what really is serious and what really isn't.

I guess one issue and this is just back to you, Larry. The president said they. He pins it on Jim Clapper underestimating what should have taken place in Syria. But this is the commander in chief we're talking about. Should we have heard a we or an I instead of a he?

HAAS: Well, it's been a long criticism of the president, but I think it's really true of every president that good things are I and bad things are somehow the advice that he's getting or outside forces or all the rest.

This is not peculiar in any way to this president. I would like to go back to a comment that S.E. made a little bit earlier about foreign policy at large. I think the president is seeing frankly that his initial sense of the world and how it will be a better place if the United States somehow reduces its footprint in that region and elsewhere is not coming to pass.

And you saw in the "60 Minutes" interview the president went back to language that you would not have heard from him a year or two ago. We lead. We are the indispensable nation. Nobody else can step in. It's not Beijing. It's not Moscow. It has to be us.

I take that as a good sign because I think that that means that the president is going through some learning and he understands that when bad things happen, we need to lead the effort to reduce them.

BALDWIN: A lot of people are really encouraged by the speech he gave right at the UNGA last week. We have to talk about some of these numbers and how Americans feel.

So S.E., let me just pivot to that, some public opinion polls, a new CNN/ORC polls, we found 73 percent of Americans support the use of airstrikes in conjunction with our coalition allies, but 60 percent oppose the use of ground troops, 60 percent oppose.

But we hear, you know, top Republicans like the House speaker, John Boehner, Senator John McCain, they say either the U.S. needs to deploy ground troops now or in Boehner's case, ground troops are probably inevitable.

But, S.E., and listen, this isn't just -- it's not just Republicans. My question really is, is the beltway, when you look at those numbers, out of touch with the public? CUPP: Well, actually, if you tack on one phrase to that poll question, if military advisers determine that ground troops are the best course of action, you actually get a plurality of American people at least according to NBC "Wall Street Journal" poll who do support ground troops.

Look, John Boehner is right in trusting the Iraqi army to be our boots on the ground is absurd. Let me paint a picture for you. ISIS is currently parading captured Iraqi troops, captured Iraqi troops, around Fallujah.

Just last week, ISIS cut off an Iraqi military base in Anbar Province and by reports, according to reports, either kidnapped or killed from 300 to 500 Iraqi army soldiers.

These are the boots on the ground we're going to trust to stomp out ISIS? I've said it before. If the president is more committed to this political talking point of no boots on the ground than he is to a winning military strategy, we're going to lose this war and ISIS is going to continue to win it.

BALDWIN: It was James Clapper in that interview with "The Washington Post" just a couple weeks ago talking about underestimating, but also overestimating the Iraqis to your point S.E. S.E. Cupp, thank you and Larry Haas. I really appreciate both of you and your time this afternoon. Thank you.

Next, these pictures out of Hong Kong. I mean, thousands rallying on the streets. You see the scenes playing out. Protesters demanding democracy and we have a correspondent in the middle of it all. We'll check in with him live coming up next.

Also ahead, a new scathing report blasting the Secret Service. According to this report, it took agents four days to figure out someone actually shot bullets into the White House. Originally they thought it was a car back firing. We'll talk to a former Secret Service agent. How the heck could this happen, next?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Let's take you to Hong Kong here for these massive pro- democracy protests in the streets. It's now day two. Tens of thousands of demonstrators have packed into the highways and streets mostly in the city's central financial district.

They want the Chinese government to reverse its decision allowing only candidates chosen by Beijing to run in Hong Kong's election. They want to be able to pick their own person, right. So the protests now are peaceful, but they didn't start out that way.

Dozens of people have been injured including 12 police officers and in the thick of all this, we have our correspondent there, Andrew Stevens. Andrew, set the scene for me.

ANDREW STEVENS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the pictures we saw of the tear gas, the pepper spray being used was an unprecedented scene in Hong Kong. We're all used to seeing protesters around the world, Brooke, where there are these images.

But in Hong Kong which does often hold protest, they are invariably very peaceful. So to see that sort of image really did shock a lot of Hong Kongers and it actually backfired to some degree on the Hong Kong authorities.

Because if you look now across from where I am behind me, this is 24 hours after those tear gas attacks. Tens of thousands of people in the middle of Hong Kong at 3:30 in the morning saying they are going nowhere until they win this case for more democracy in Hong Kong.

What has changed since those attacks is both sides, the police, the government, and the protest leaders are saying this has to be a peaceful demonstration, but if you look around, you'll see plenty of students here and they are for the most students still wearing protective gear.

That homemade protective gear. Look at the plastic jackets. The cling film wrapped around exposed skin. Goggles. Face masks, things like that. They are expecting that things could deteriorate again, but certainly we're not getting any indication, Brooke, at this stage that the Hong Kong authorities are likely to go back to those tear gassing moments.

It's interesting. I have been speaking to a lot of senior police officers off the record over the past day or so and they say that whoever took the decision to use that tear gas, to use that pepper spray, it was a very unusual decision. A lot of questions being asked now about why they took that route so early in this demonstration -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: I was talking to Christiane Amanpour last hour and asking her the crux of this. Will Beijing -- do you think Beijing would fold and allow people to choose their candidates and she said that's highly unlikely. Andrew Stevens for us in Hong Kong, thank you so much.

And now back here at home, the Secret Service, you've read a thing or two about the Secret Service in the news the past month for two separate incidents at the White House.

And now a report claims the agency botched a shooting at the White House four years ago. Didn't know there were shots fired until a housekeeper found the bullet in the walls of the White House. We'll talk to a former secret deputy director. How the heck had this happened?

Plus tragedy near this Japanese volcano. Just remarkable images capturing the ash and the gas that killed dozens who were climbing this thing. Today we're learning more about the victims and what led to the eruption.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: The Secret Service is charged with protecting the nation's commander in chief and his family, but a series of recent security lapses at the White House has this elite group of enforces now under scrutiny.

First you had back in November 2011, "The Washington Post" had this incredible report about this gunman who fired at least eight rounds across the south lawn and into the White House with a semiautomatic weapon.

We know that the first lady's mother and their younger daughter, Sasha, were home at the time. We know according to "The Post" that the bullets hit windows outside the first family's private residence.

It wasn't until a housekeeper found a bullet in the wall four days later that agents realized that there had been an actual shooting. This report also says commanders mistook the gunfire as backfiring.

And then there was this incident earlier this month where this man armed with a knife hops the fence at the White House and makes it all the way to the front door of the White House, which was unlocked.

Do the incidents indicate agents are not up to the job? Joining me now is former Secret Service Deputy Assistant Director John Tomlinson. Mr. Tomlinson, thank you so much for coming on and I have incredible respect for what you and your former colleagues do.

But when you read this "Washington Post" report that it took four days for these, you know, Secret Service to realize that a gunman had hit the White House, your response to that?

JOHN TOMLINSON, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, SECRET SERVICE: Well, I think you need to put it in the correct perspective. First, the round was not found in the wall. The round was found after it had penetrated the historical glass of the White House. And in fact was stopped by the ballistic glass that was put in place --

BALDWIN: So not hitting the wall but penetrating the glass? That's frightening to me.

TOMLINSON: That's why the protective glass is in place. In terms of Secret Service response to it, you know, this incident didn't take place in a vacuum or a clinic. So it took place realtime, real life.

And the initial reports were varied and the Secret Service and the park police and the Metropolitan Police Department, the first challenge for them was to try to determine exactly what took place.

There was a witness that said there were shots fired from one vehicle toward another vehicle. There were clearly reports that was a backfire. In that particular environment in the nation's capital, noises like that whether it's a gunshot or a backfire, reverberate off the building.

So it's tough to get an exact location of where the shot or where the noise initially emanated from.

BALDWIN: OK. In the wake of this most recent -- the fence-jumping that I just mentioned, we do know that the White House is conducting a review of the Secret Service -- the performance. I know that the president has issued kudos for these people working to save his life, as they do each and every day. But what in this review -- what would they be looking at? Where might exist these lapses in security?

TOMLINSON: Well, there's basically two tenets of a review. One would be policy in terms of what policies, what procedures are in place. That would prevent an incident such as that occurred and in the case of the fence jumper from occurring again.

The other one is the performance of those officers and agents on duty on that date and time, to see if in fact with the policies in place, did they perform as they're trained and as the recurring training reinforces. Was there a lapse there?

BALDWIN: I'm just curious also, too, your own personal experience. You were with the Secret Service, late '70s all the way through the 2000s. This "Washington Post" article says President Obama received three times as many threats as any other president, which really was stunning to me. But I'm sure in all the presidents you worked with, what were the threats that you remember dealing with?

TOMLINSON: I appreciate the opportunity to correct that because as I've been told by the Secret Service recently, the information that there was a spike, three times the normal threats against presidents, that information is simply not accurate.

BALDWIN: So your Secret Service colleagues are saying "The Washington Post" reporting is wrong?

TOMLINSON: Correct.

BALDWIN: OK.

TOMLINSON: After the election of President Obama, there in fact was a spike in protective threats. But that has now leveled out to the point where it compares with other presidents before President Obama.

So I'm sure the information is being put forward in good faith. But it's simply -- the facts don't bear it out. I would defer to the Secret Service to perhaps instruct whoever came up with the number to correct it so that we don't inadvertently mislead either the public or the media, or protectees.

BALDWIN: Well, I'm deferring to you now as someone who was with the Secret Service for years and years and years. What kind of threats -- I don't know if it's even fair to say typical, usual threats versus the odd threat to a president of the United States?

TOMLINSON: Well, there is no normal threat and the secret service has zero tolerance for threats made against any of our protectees, clearly the president of the United States among them. So those threats come from individuals who have an interest in causing harm to the president.

The zero tolerance goes to the Secret Service's requirement to investigate each and every threat to ensure that, in fact, the individual or individuals can't carry it out. And that's what they train on and that's what they in a recurring basis get trained on.

BALDWIN: John Tomlinson, thanks for your time. I appreciate it.

TOMLINSON: Surely.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, a tragic scene in Japan. A volcano erupts as dozens of people are there. They're climbing it. We have these pictures of the eruption. We are learning more about what led up to this, next here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: At least a dozen people are presumed dead following Saturday's sudden eruption of a volcano in Japan. Hundreds of hikers were out on this volcano. It's near Mount Ontake. When it unleashed this massive plume of ash and deadly gas.

CNN's Chad Myers joins me now with a little bit more on this. Chad, this apparently happened so quickly. You have all these people, these hikers up there on the slopes of the volcano. Tell me what happened.

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: On any given day, there can be 1,500 people on the mountain. But this day, a Saturday afternoon, a Saturday morning, people were up there actually up near the summit. Can we predict earthquakes? Yes.

There can be some predictive elements here. Were there any seismic activities, a groundswell? Is a lava dome rising or was there gas and heat coming out? Because there are instruments inside the cone, none of these things happened.

There was literally no warning that this was going to happen and it happened because it's a hydro volcanic event, which means the magna and water got in the same place. Think about what magna does to water. It turns it into gas. Turns it into water vapor.

And it's going to get erupted. You're going to get a lot of pressure in there and that pressure just exploded. And that's why it happened so fast. That's why it happened exactly, completely without warning. We can get this increase in frequency. The ground swelling or the lava dome at any time.

It just did not happen here. The pictures are amazing. This is a time-lapsed event of when it went off. How much lava, ash and this pyroclastic flow came down the mountain. These people had no chance. Many of them had no chance of getting out of the way -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Just quickly, 20 seconds, this kind of thing, the last major eruption, 35 years ago. You would think people should be able to hike there.

MYERS: You bet. It's an active volcano. But 35 years in between, you wouldn't want to shut it down. They were at a 3 for it could erupt, not to the 5 where it's going to erupt. Anytime you're around a volcano, you can get events like this because these are not dormant. These are active volcanoes. Look at ash that came down. Feet of ash. Looks like a snowstorm happened in this area as these people were trying to dig others out. Many of them got into these cabins and survived -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Incredible. Chad Myers, thank you so much. I appreciate it. Nice to see you.

And nice to see you as well. I'm Brooke Baldwin. See you back here same time tomorrow. In the meantime, to Washington we go, "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts now.