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Violent Protests Rock Hong Kong; Who Is Khorasan?; Shot Ferguson Police Officer's Camera Off

Aired September 29, 2014 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: And just days after September 11, 2001, there was an FBI agent, he was in Yemen, and he was sitting face to face with this al Qaeda leader interrogating him. And in the process of doing so, he heard this chilling warning about an Islamic army with black banners marching into Jerusalem. So now we're hearing that threat about that from Khorasan.

And now this:

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IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We're now going to be enveloped in tear gas.

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BALDWIN: Protesters in Hong Kong are not backing down. They are facing off, as you can see, here with police. Clouds of tear gas. Dozens injured. Is this the end of Hong Kong's fragile democracy inside China?

Stay with me. You're watching CNN.

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BALDWIN: Just stunning pictures here. This is police in Hong Kong firing tear gas at these pro-democracy protesters. We know at this point dozens were hurt, including 12 police officers. But thousands of people began pouring into the heart of the city on Sunday angry over what they say is the growing influence of the Chinese Communist Party on the way Hong Kong is run. What ignited these demonstrations is only candidates cleared from the government can run for Hong Kong's top office. The crowds are massive. Police have pulled back. Thousands of people are now camped out on this multilane highway and in front of several government offenses.

Earlier, our senior international correspondent, Ivan Watson, was in the thick of things in the now peaceful protest.

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WATSON: There are a lot of people here occupying downtown Hong Kong blocking off for more than 24 hours the main highway that runs through this financial hub. A virtual sea of humanity that's been chanting slogans, like "Resign." That's directed at the chief executive and top official in Hong Kong. The other demand that people make again and again and again is what they call "universal suffrage." They want true, free and fair elections.

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BALDWIN: All right. That was Ivan Watson in the sea of people.

And here she is, chief international correspondent, Christiane Amanpour.

Christiane, first of all, I would love to have your two cents on the pictures and numbers of people, and also tell me about this interview you just had.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Certainly, it's the biggest demonstration in Hong Kong ever since it was handed back by the British. But it's also a major challenge obviously to be Beijing, the biggest student movement since Tiananmen Square in 1989.

But what's happening here, as you heard, although there was viol violence, police came in with pepper spray over the weekend, they have pulled back now. The Chinese authorities in Beijing look like they are trying to get the Hong Kong authorities deal with it. They don't want blood on their hands at the moment.

I spoke to one of the leaders of the occupy movement, which is the heart of the protest movement there. And he said they are only going to stay out for another two days. That's October 1st, National Day. And then put forth further demands. Here's what he said to me.

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CHAN KIN MAN, HONG KONG PROTESTER: We hope people can clear the streets on October 1st, and we'll announce action. It may not be Occupy, but it will be a way for people to really express their idea about a genuine democracy in Hong Kong.

AMANPOUR: Now, the police it seems have not been so evident today after tear gas and pepper spray over the weekend. Have they been called back?

KIN MAN: They are shamed. The police use tear gas to disperse the demonstrators. In fact, the demonstration was in a very peaceful and orderly manner. It's totally unacceptable for the police to use force.

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AMANPOUR: So there is his idea of what's actually just been going on there, but saying that they will continue to press for their demands and they want the chief executive of Hong Kong to resign. And they want to start a dialogue and to talk to Beijing about these constitutional issues that they want changed. Nobody believes Beijing is going to give way. So this is going to be interesting to keep watching.

At the heart of it, Brooke, is the fact that Beijing said you'll be able to directly elect your chief executive in your next round of elections but from a list of preapproved candidates by us here in Beijing, and it's that that has the people in Hong Kong incredibly upset.

BALDWIN: From their perspective, that doesn't seem fair. Do you think there is any chance whatsoever if these demonstrations continue that Beijing would fold and say OK?

AMANPOUR: People don't think so because this is about politics, and it's about Beijing holding the line against any kind of political upheaval or political demands. Beijing already faces demands and upheavals in various parts of China and has a situation with Taiwan, and it wants definitely to keep Hong Kong within the own orbit. It's called One Country, Two Systems. That's why people are worried that Beijing won't actually fold in this case. But they don't know whether there's any face-saving or wiggle room. And the protesters will have to march a fine line in order to try to push the democratic ball forward without incurring a violent crackdown.

BALDWIN: We'll be watching, Christiane. Again, incredibly compelling images.

Christiane Amanpour, thank you so much. I really appreciate that.

The terror group Khorasan is comprised of these al Qaeda operatives. Are they worst of the worst? A threat unlike anything the U.S. has seen in the past? Ahead, we'll hear from a man, a former FBI agent, who was one of the first to hear the word Khorasan in the days after 9/11.

And police body cameras sound like an excellent idea, but when they're turned off, what good does that do their communities? Police near Ferguson, Missouri, have to explain why an officer's camera was switched off during a shooting.

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ANNOUNCER: This is CNN.

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

It's the al Qaeda cell targeted by American air strikes in Syria. The U.S. says they were plotting to attack America and their plans were in the execution phase. But for many Americans, the first time they heard of this group was last week.

My next guest says the threat could have been alive for more than a decade. He is Ali Soufan. He worked on complex global terror cases at the FBI where he was a supervisory special agent. He's joining me here in New York.

Ali, welcome. Nice to have you on.

ALI SOUFAN, FORMER FBI SUPERVISORY SPECIAL AGENT: Hi. Nice to be with you.

BALDWIN: Let's begin where this part of the story begins. The six days after 9/11, you were inside this Yemen prison. You were interrogating this al Qaeda operative. What did he say to you then?

SOUFAN: Well, you know, first of all, our main goal at the time was to know who did 9/11 and to identify the people involved and to get any intelligence we can in order to prepare for the response the United States was planning to do in Afghanistan against al Qaeda and Taliban.

However, all of these things we hear about today, Khorasan and the significance of that, came up during that interrogation. Khorasan is a historic term of a vast region that includes parts of Iran, Pakistan and Afghanistan. This is where the leadership of al Qaeda is based. Osama bin Laden, in 1996, he signed the declaration of jihad against the United States. Khorasan is the place where he put it together and where he declared it. This is part of an Islamic version of Armageddon that, at the end of time, an army with black flags come out of Khorasan to take over the world and establish their form of justice.

That person that I was talking to at that time mentioned that term and al Qaeda --

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BALDWIN: Which you were familiar with?

SOUFAN: I was familiar with it because I did a lot of reading about radical extremism and about their views and their version of how they see the world. So I was very familiar with the saying of the prophet and we had a long discussion about it, him and I. You know, we continued. I personally continued to hear the name a lot. Every time al Qaeda operatives wanted to refer to who leadership is, they say the leadership in Khorasan, like us saying the guys in Washington, D.C., or headquarters.

BALDWIN: I see. I see.

SOUFAN: So --

BALDWIN: So when Americans then, Ali, first heard about this, as intelligence was calling the Khorasan group inside of Syria in its execution phase near Aleppo in which the U.S. struck some days ago, is that the same thing that you were referring to in this prophecy, or is that just a name that the U.S. is giving this particular splinter group?

SOUFAN: Khorasan the same group as al Qaeda. After the split that took place between ISIS and the al Nusra Front, al Qaeda in Khorasan sent many veteran operatives from the group -- some has been with al Qaeda from the beginning, some of them joined al Qaeda after 9/11. They sent them to advise and train al Nusra and set up the organization. So they were the brothers who were sent by Khorasan. They were from al Qaeda central. Their views and their agenda is not only to help al Nusra in the fight against their enemies and against the Syrian regime, but also to ensue the global agenda of al Qaeda.

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BALDWIN: Attack the West.

SOUFAN: To find recruits. Absolutely. Find recruits. Find explosives. Find materials. Syria has, as of June, 12,000 foreign fighters from 81 different countries. That's treasure-trove for al Qaeda to try to find individuals who can travel to the West and travel to the United States in order to conduct and carry out attacks.

So when we hear Khorasan, we're not hearing about a new branding of al Qaeda. We're not hearing about the new splinter group that splintered from al Qaeda. We're not hearing about the new affiliated group with al Qaeda. We're hearing about al Qaeda as we always knew it.

BALDWIN: This is headquarters, as it were, of al Qaeda in this part of Syria. So then, if you knew about this -- and I'm sure many others in the intelligence community. But I read other quotes, not familiar with this, skeptical of the notion of Khorasan, wondering why Americans a week ago just came into this term. Why is it relevant for the rest of us?

SOUFAN: That's an interesting question. I talked about it in my book two years ago. My book came out of the tenth anniversary of 9/11 and the first chapter is about Khorasan and the significance. But this tells you how little we know about the enemy and that's why we're fighting a war for more than 14 years or for 15 years.

BALDWIN: That's the frightening part, Ali

SOUFAN: That's my point. We have been fighting a war for about 15 years. We have been very successful. Don't get me wrong. We've been successful in targeting the short-term physical threat of al Qaeda. We have been disrupting attacks, apprehending leaders, even killing Osama bin Laden himself. However, we have not focused on the ideology. We have not focused on bin Ladenism. We have not focused about the factors that make these groups, recruits, and continue to reinvent themselves. As long as we don't target the ideology, we don't target bin Ladenism, this war is going to go for a long period of time.

ISIS, al Qaeda, al Nusra, they are all the same. They are the followers of Osama bin Laden. ISIS and al Nusra or ISIS and al Qaeda differ with al Qaeda in two things. The leadership. It's an ego thing. And tactics. ISIS believes they need to hold land and establish their state. Al Qaeda believes it's better to hit and run. ISIS believes it's good to do beheadings and scare the enemy. And why do you want to do this if a bullet can do the job? These are the differences between two different entities that both claim they are the righteous followers and inheritance of Osama bin Laden.

BALDWIN: Ali Soufan, all of your years working in this, writing the book, please come back. Let's continue these conversations. It's frightening.

SOUFAN: Thank you. Thank you.

BALDWIN: Ali, thank you very much. I really appreciate it.

As we talk about the threat from terrorists in Iraq and Syria forcing people out of their own homes, you can help. If you would like to learn more, go to CNN.com/impact. We'll have links for organizations that CNN vetted to help families. That's at CNN.com/impact.

Just ahead, it's the border city at the center of this battle between these ISIS terrorists and Syrian Kurds, aired live here on CNN, but now we're getting word here, ISIS is now advancing and they're getting close to that city. We'll take you there, live, only here on CNN.

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BALDWIN: A Ferguson police officer is recovering today after being shot by an unknown gunman Saturday night. Investigators tell CNN the patrol officer was shot in the arm while responding to a call at a community center. Right around that same time, there were community protests over the deadly police shooting of 18-year-old Michael Brown. Officials say they don't believe what happened to the officer is connected to those demonstrations. They think they are two separate incidents.

But CNN has new information about body camera that the wounded officer was wearing. Sheriff's officials confirm the camera was on the body but flicked off.

CNN's Stephanie Elam is in Ferguson for us right now.

The obvious question, why wasn't the camera on, Stephanie?

STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: According to police, they say that they only have eight hours of recording time on these cameras so they don't have them on all the time. This was a routine check which turned into a pursuit because of this person they saw running out of the building, allegedly. So he didn't turn it on.

The other thing I would like to point out about this, this was a big issue that came out during the Mike Brown shooting that there weren't body cameras on police officers in Ferguson. So they haven't had them that long.

Again, it shows another time when people are saying that if cameras were rolling we might know who this assailant was -- Brooke?

BALDWIN: Stephanie Elam live for us in Ferguson.

Stephanie, thank you.

Back in a moment.

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