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CNN NEWSROOM

Mixed Messages on Terror Plots at Home; Interview with Sen. Tom Carper; Chicago Flights Halted Due to Fire; Ferguson Police Chief Apologizes, Faces Protesters

Aired September 26, 2014 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

Mixed messages when it comes to the threat of terrorism here at home. U.S. officials say the new Iraqi prime minister got it completely wrong yesterday when he said his country uncovered an eminent ISIS plot against New York and Paris subways. Instead, the real threat may be coming from an al Qaeda spin-off group known as the Khorasan group. That's the very same group that was targeted and hit by U.S. air strikes on Monday. Well, the FBI director, James Comey, said he's, quote, "not confident at all" that air strikes disrupted the group's planning, and that Khorasan could, quote, "carry out the attack tomorrow, next week or months from now."

So let's talk about this with Democrat Senator Tom Carper. He's the chair of the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs.

Welcome, senator.

SEN. TOM CARPER (D), DELAWARE: Hi. How are you doing?

COSTELLO: So who are you most afraid of?

CARPER: I said earlier, I'm afraid of my wife. But actually what I'm really afraid of is complacency. We just need to be ever vigilant. We know that there are bad people, whether they're the Khorasan folks or the ISIS people, they wish us ill and if they could hurt us they would. And it's one of those deals that when I travel -- I travel on the Amtrak train a lot and you always hear in the train stations, if you see something, say something. That's really the key here. We can -- we're -- lone wolves would be a concern. Somebody might know, might observe the lone wolf and say, what's going on here? They just need to share that information.

COSTELLO: When the Iraqi prime minister came out and told reporters that there was this eminent plot against New York subways, when you heard that, did you say --

CARPER: You know what I said. I said, say what? I said, say what? And we -- I spoke yesterday at some length with Jeh Johnson, he's the secretary of -- he's the secretary of the Department of Homeland Security and we don't think that's the case. Having said that, this is a reminder, we just have to be ready for anything and we just can't let down our guard.

COSTELLO: So when you say we have to be ready for everything, when we hear, oh, there's no eminent threat from ISIS and -- but there is an eminent threat from the Khorasan group and that's why we bombed them in Syria on Monday, but we never knew about that previous to this air strike, it's confusing to Americans.

CARPER: Well, ISIS and Khorasan. Yes, ISIS -- it's confusing. The ISIS folks, their job, their goal is to create this Islamic state between Syria and Iraq. That's what their goal is. If they can do some collateral damage to us, so be it. The Khorasan group, they're a different group. They're more like al Qaeda and they sit around thinking about, how can we hurt America. And so, you know, if ISIS had a chance, they'd probably do something. The Khorasan, this is what they spend 24/7 doing, how do we hurt America?

COSTELLO: Well, I think that some Americans might be waiting for another group to be named within Syria that we didn't know about.

CARPER: Well, they kind of mutate, you know. And so we have just to be mindful that the threat -- the nature of the threat's going to change. These guys aren't stupid. They are dangerous. And we just need to be prepared. And we need --

COSTELLO: Do you think the air strikes are working?

CARPER: Yes. We don't -- we shouldn't just be playing defense. We need to be playing offense and I think we're doing that well.

COSTELLO: Why do you think the air strikes are working because really it seems, at least in Iraq, that it's just containing ISIS. It's not really degrading ISIS.

CARPER: Well, we're -- we're -- it's just like if you use a baseball game, this is like the second inning, OK? And in a way it's -- think, if you will, you have the playoffs coming up in baseball. Just imagine you go out on the field and it's the first time you meet your teammates.

COSTELLO: (INAUDIBLE) 200 air strikes.

CARPER: You -- this is first time we're actually meeting our teammates. We did air strikes with the Saudis, with UAE, Bahrain, some others. This is the first time we've worked with them. I know naval flight ops. I did 23 years in the Navy, some time in a hot war and some time in a cold war and we used to do joint exercises with NATO allies. This is hard to do. We've never worked with these guys before. The real challenge here is, as do the work from the ground, as we provide support and training and help, can the Iraqis do their job? Can they do their job? That's -- and that remains to be seen.

COSTELLO: Well, in light of the story we just heard from Ben Wedeman, are you confident that the Iraqi military will ever be brought up to speed?

CARPER: Well, what -- they -- I think they've got a pretty good guy to be with (ph) the new prime minister. I think he is an inclusive sort of fellow. It's what I hear. And he needs to appoint a foreign -- not a foreign minister but a defense minister. He needs to appoint a good person to be the interior minister. They need leadership over there. Leadership is the key for everything I've ever been a part of. They need good leadership especially in their armed forces.

COSTELLO: But the -- but the threats are occurring right now and I think Americans are at least on high alert. They may not be afraid, but they're on high alert.

CARPER: Well, and, you know what, that's not a bad thing.

COSTELLO: So we're waiting for some positive thing to be said about this Iraqi military force that seems to be so inept. They need leadership and some say that leadership should come from Americans, on the ground.

CARPER: Well, some people may say that. I think most Americans wouldn't. I would not. The Iraqis have a role to play. The Kurds have a role to play. The other folks that we're pulling into this coalition have a role to play. We have a role to play. We can't -- we can't do everything, be all things to all people. But we have a job to play and we're trying to provide some leadership. What did Bill Clinton used to say, better to be wrong but strong but -- or than weak but right. And in this case, our president has the opportunity to be strong and right and I fully support what we're doing.

COSTELLO: I hope so.

CARPER: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Senator Carper, thank you so much for being with me.

CARPER: Thank you.

COSTELLO: I appreciate it.

Coming up in the NEWSROOM --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did not do anything! You're not listening to me. You're not listening to me! You're not listening to me!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: New arrests in Ferguson, Missouri, after the police chief tries to reach out to protesters and march with them. Didn't turn out so good. We'll talk about it next.

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ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news. COSTELLO: I hate having to pass this along to you on Friday, your weekend, but if you're trying fly out of O'Hare and Midway, good luck, because a ground stop is in place at both those airports. And look at the lines at O'Hare. Oh, that's just vile. And wait until you hear why there's been a ground stop put into place at O'Hare and at Midway. Apparently in an air traffic control tower at an en route center run by the FAA there was a fire in the bathroom and there was smoke in the air traffic control tower. They had to evacuate. They're still trying to see if anything is, you know, broken in there because they direct flights from that air traffic control tower. But that is what's causing all of these delays this morning.

Ted Rowlands, are you on the phone? Are you at O'Hare?

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Yes, Carol. I'm at O'Hare. And this is not a place to be if you're trying to get out of Chicago and start your weekend. There are a lot of people with forlorn looks on their faces. The lines are incredible trying to rebook because every flight has been canceled in and out of here and Midway Airport. You can imagine what that is doing to the rest of the country as well.

And as you said, this started from an air traffic control facility out in Aurora, Illinois, which is about 40 miles from here. That fire has completely disabled that. So, I mean, what they're trying to do now is have other facilities in Minneapolis and Indianapolis and Kansas City pick up the slack. That is going to take time and there's no estimation on when traffic will resume there.

COSTELLO: Oh, oh, Ted, that's just so awful. Thank you very much, Ted Rowlands.

And we do know Southwest has canceled most flights in and out of Chicago until at least noon Eastern Time. So just to warn you, so if you're flying from anywhere today, please check ahead, because if you don't, you're likely to spend hours at the airport you really don't want to spend.

I'm back in a minute.

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COSTELLO: Ferguson police chief Thomas Jackson had quite the PR nightmare on his hands last night. Jackson tried and failed miserably to address protesters angry over what they feel is delayed justice in the Michael Brown killing. A scuffle broke ought and police had to make several arrests. It was a long, tough day for Chief Jackson who started by apologizing for his department's actions after Brown's shooting.

Jackson then sat down with an interview with CNN's Ana Cabrera.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You issued an apology video today.

THOMAS JACKSON, FERGUSON POLICE CHIEF: I did.

CABRERA: Why did it take so long for that to happen?

JACKSON: Well, there's been so much going on, and every day there's been a different challenge. Ever since August 9th, there's been new challenges every day for me not only as a man but as a police chief and a member of the community. But this is something that's just been weighing on me, something that need to be said, should have been said a long time ago.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Hours after that interview, Jackson had a confrontation with protesters outside the police department because he wanted to march with them. Look at what happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACKSON: All I got to say is this is a (EXPLETIVE) tragedy. We all know that, I'm sorry and I said that from my heart.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE).

JACKSON: You don't have to accept that. You don't have to accept that. That came from my heart. I had to get that off my chest. That's been sitting there for two months.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why? Why two months? (EXPLETIVE) Why two months?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (EXPLETIVE).

JACKSON: I know. I know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Well the chief's remarks were not well received because chants then rang out for Jackson to resign and then the chief had this exchange with a protester.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are we going to do to get justice, because you see the whole Ferguson (EXPLETIVE), the whole city in an uproar. What are we going to do? (EXPLETIVE) (EXPLETIVE) (EXPLETIVE).

CROWD: Chief has to resign, Chief Jackson resign, resign, resign! Chief Jackson resign, resign, resign!

JACKSON: So do we have a lynch mob? We do? Really?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That man was unarmed, and you put that man on administrative leave. He's on vacation after killing an unarmed black man (EXPLETIVE).

JACKSON: One of the things you are looking at is a national standard. We've been talking to justice about this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Uh-huh.

JACKSON: A national standard for when a police officer is involved in a fatal shooting, everything is done exactly the same way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Okay, you heard the protester chanting resign. It actually got worse from there. Jackson then tried to explain what changes the justice department had suggested to him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACKSON: They told us our court system needs to be resolved. Our ticketing system needs to be resolved. Our traffic violation system needs to be resolved. Our equipment violation system needs to be resolved and several other items I have written down.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wait. Why did they have to tell you that? You didn't know that before? Why did the department of justice have to come in and say that?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why did they have to tell you that? You didn't know that before the department of justice came?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Jackson then tried to walk with the protesters, probably not a great idea at this point because a scuffle broke out leading to arrests, including this woman who says she simply fell.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please stop it, I was walking next to the chief and I fell. He knocked me down. I was not doing anything.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE, PRESS: She's not a problem. Let her up. I'm the press, she's not a problem.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please, I do not do anything.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE, PRESS: Officer, she's not a problem.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do not do anything. I do not do anything. You're not listening to me. You're not listening to me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE, PRESS: I've been watching her the whole time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You're not listening to me. I do not do anything. I was walking next to the chief and I fell. I just fell. That's all. Why is he doing this?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE, PRESS: I'm serious, she is not a problem. They need to let her up. I've been out here every night.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is not right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Now, we don't know whether the woman was, in fact, arrested or let go. We can tell you the streets cleared early this morning and calm has returned to Ferguson. Joining me now, Benjamin Crump, the attorney for Michael Brown's parents. Welcome, sir.

BENJAMIN CRUMP, ATTORNEY FOR MICHAEL BROWN'S FAMILY: Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: What do you make of that?

CRUMP: I think you are seeing the frustration in the Ferguson community. They have a great mistrust of the local law enforcement agencies. So I think transparency is going to be the key to restoring peace and calm and confidence.

COSTELLO: The chief appears to be trying. Do you think people gave him a chance?

CRUMP: I don't know everything that happened in Ferguson last night, but I will say this. What Michael Brown's parents as well as all of his family have been fighting for is justice. They haven't been fighting for an apology. What they want to see is that Michael Brown, Jr., gets due process and that his killer is held accountable. And they are here in Washington, D.C., this morning to talk to members of Congress to get help in getting justice in Ferguson, Missouri, because they don't have trust that the local prosecutor, the local law enforcement officers are going to hold accountable the killer of their unarmed child.

COSTELLO: The grand jury is still meeting in Ferguson or in Missouri, I should say, and it's not due out for a decision until October. So why not wait until after then to go to Washington and lobby Congress.

CRUMP: Carol, that's the thing. We were told it was going to be October. Now we're told it will be moved back to January 7th. That's why you see the crowd out saying justice delayed is justice denied.

And we disagree with the whole grand jury proceeding. We don't think there needed to be a grand jury. There was more than enough probable cause to arrest officer Darren Wilson for killing unarmed Michael Brown, Jr., in broad daylight, because you had seven witnesses all putting their hand up saying that that's how they saw Michael Brown and the police officer kept shooting. Why do you need a grand jury? It's a choice the prosecutor has made to have this secret proceeding and that's why the community don't trust that they're going to get justice. They think it's not transparent and they think they are trying to spin this to justify the -- another killing of a young, unarmed African-American.

COSTELLO: Going back to Chief Jackson for just a second because, you know, it's essentially out of his hands at the moment so he's trying to make amends. He did a video where he apologized to the community. He apologized to Michael Brown's family. He at least tried to talk with protesters and give them some time and explain things. Is there anything else he can do?

CRUMP: Carol, leadership has to take over to heal the community. I think one of the problems when the chief or whoever made the decision to release that video that they knew had absolutely nothing to do with what happened is -- it made for great distrust. So now you're trying to regain that public trust, so there are going to be some issues with the leadership and the local law enforcement going forward because they started off, we believe, misleading the community. So I think the community is looking at this and saying we want transparency, we want changes, we want justice.

COSTELLO: Do you think Chief Jackson is trying?

CRUMP: I want to believe he's trying. He's a leader. That's what leaders have to do. He's responsible. That's his job to be a leader. We all have a job to do. We have a job to fight for justice, the mayor, we're looking to see where his leadership will be on this issue. The prosecutor, all of us have a job to do in this because we all have taken this assignment. He volunteered to be police chief. The mayor ran for mayor. The prosecutor ran for election so they have a job to lead.

The people there in Ferguson are saying we have a job to our children, we have a job to our community to make sure we raise our voices so we don't this happen again in our community as it has happened so many times before, Carol. In the St. Louis community and elsewhere in America and that's why you see people in the African-American community frustrated. We see what happened in Ohio. We see what happened in South Carolina. At what point do we say it's not okay for you to kill us. It's not okay for you to shoot unarmed people of color?

COSTELLO: Attorney Benjamin Crump, thank you so much for joining me this morning, I appreciate it.

The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM after a break.

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