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DR. DREW
Student Was Abducted, Suspect on Run
Aired September 23, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, Hannah Graham was last seen on surveillance video and by witnesses 10 days ago.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is every parent`s worst nightmare. I`m certain that everybody in this room and those watching knows that what
happened to Hannah could happen to their child.
PINSKY: So, where is she? Why can`t authorities find her?
Then, is this woman with three breasts for real? She says a plastic surgeon did this for $20,000. I`ll let you know what I think.
Let`s get started.
(MUSIC)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening. My co-host, of course, is Samantha Schacher.
And coming up, another mug shot that has gone viral because, well, Sam, the person is just so hot. So good looking.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, CO-HOST: That`s right, Dr. Drew. And get this. People are calling her the babe behind bars. And random strangers have
volunteered to pay her bail.
PINSKY: All right. First up, though, it`s all over Twitter. The mystery of 18-year-old Hannah Graham missing for 10 days. Police now say
she was abducted, and that the suspect is on the run. The college sophomore disappeared after a night of drinking with friends.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police released this picture and this wanted poster of Jesse Matthew.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We heard, Detective Sergeant Mooney did late this afternoon, very late this afternoon, and obtained an arrest warrant for
Jesse Leroy Matthew Jr. of Charlottesville, charging him with a class 2 felony of abduction with the attempt to defile.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say Matthew was the last person seen with 18-year-old University of Virginia sophomore Hannah Graham in the early
morning hours of September 13th.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: According to video, surveillance video shows Matthew putting his arm around the 18-year-old.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Over the weekend he voluntarily walked into the police station and asked for a lawyer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know they talked and walked out that door. And I don`t know any more about his interaction with Hannah Graham than I did
the moment he walked in.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say he was seen speeding later in the day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s why it is so critically important to talk to Jesse Matthew, because he is the last person that we know of that saw her
before her disappearance.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Joining us to discuss: Evy Poumpouras, law enforcement analyst, former special agent, Secret Service, Kailey Mackamamie (ph),
political commentator, Danielle Robay, TV host and reporter.
Sam, police have a warrant out for 32-year-old Jesse Matthew. What else do we know about this guy?
SCHACHER: Well, here`s what we know, Dr. Drew. So, the #hannahgraham has trended all over Twitter with updates from the University of Virginia,
the FBI, as you know, is now involved.
Also, a number of her friends said she texted them that she was lost although she did find a mall that she recognized. The police were at Jesse
Matthew`s apartment. They served him two warrants. At some point, Matthew replaced his Facebook profile picture with a black box. I have no idea
what that could indicate.
PINSKY: It`s weird.
And, Evy, you`ve taught me if you make a social media entry from say, your cell phone, you particularly could figure out where I am. So, why
can`t they find out where this guy is?
EVY POUMPOURAS, FORMER SPECIAL AGENT: They may be using that to try to track him down right now.
There`s two things they could do. They could try to track him down via his cell phone where he uses the towers, and the last place you go
every time you use your phone, you ping off towers and that`s how they can figure out somebody`s location.
That`s if his phone is on and what not. If his phone is not on, they would subpoena his provider to say, hey, when is the last time they pinged?
They could also do the same thing with the young woman`s phone. As we know, she was texting. So, obviously, she has her phone with her. They
are doing that, I`m certain of that.
PINSKY: Do you figure they`re sort of on to this guy? They`ll find him in short order? Or is this something more mysterious than that?
POUMPOURAS: I think they`re going to find him. They`re just not telling us everything they`re doing and they`re probably reaching out,
subpoenaing everybody. They`re just not going to put it there.
Also, when you`re in law enforcement, sometimes when you have these cases, you don`t put everything out there. You almost, because you know
the offender, the person you`re looking for. Your suspect, they`re watching the news. So, sometimes you make it seem, we don`t know anything.
Can you help us out?
It`s almost a way to confuse the person you`re looking for. Maybe they`re on to him and they`re setting this up in such a way so he has no
idea.
PINSKY: Interesting.
Danielle, you had some thoughts about guys that misbehaved. Tell me what you`re thinking there.
DANIELLE ROBAY, TV HOST & REPORTER: Well, I have thoughts on misbehave and college campuses not doing enough.
PINSKY: Yes.
ROBAY: So, Obama, he brought the It`s On Us campaign to light. And people talk about self-empowerment and self-defense.
But let`s be real. If we build a better mousetrap, we`re going to create a smarter mouse. Bad guys will be bad guys and college campuses
need more security, they need more security cameras and they need to do a lot more.
PINSKY: Well, Kailey, I`m going to take issue with that. I`ll give you a chance to respond too.
But if you look at bad outcome on college campuses, every measurable adverse effect, whether it`s a pregnancy, an STD, an altercation, an
accident, an abduction, a missing person, an act -- I mean, you name whatever it is, unwanted sexual contact, a rape. You always find alcohol.
And, Kailey, here`s another circumstance where alcohol, I`m not blaming the victim but don`t you think college campuses, if they would do
something, that`s where they ought to focus their energy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. And do you know, Dr. Drew, I think college campus dozen a pretty phenomenal job. I have to disagree with Danielle on
that point. I`m a law student and I`m here toll you every block, there is an emergency post. There are cars that they will take you home at a
certain hour of the evening. You can`t blame this on the colleges.
I think you hit on a good point. That it comes down to personal responsibility. Don`t walk alone. When you walk in a group, you increase
your safety by 150 percent.
Don`t drink alcohol and then walk alone on top of that. There are certain thing individual can do to protect themselves. It`s not the
college campuses. I think it is the individual.
PINSKY: There are certain individual responsibilities.
But, Danielle, back to you. An 18-year-old drinking, shouldn`t colleges, couldn`t they crack down on that and wouldn`t that be an easy
place to put a little energy and improve outcomes like adverse events?
ROBAY: Definitely, alcohol in many cases, she was walking alone, she was stumbling. At what point do you place responsibility on the predator?
I mean, college --
PINSKY: All the way through, of course. It`s not the responsibility of the predator. But I`m saying for somebody to be the object of a
predator, they know what they`re looking for.
ROBAY: Yes. I mean, this happened with Lauren Spears at Indiana. It happens all the time. And people need to make changes.
PINSKY: Sam, I hear you saying yes, yes, yes.
SCHACHER: The thing is on these college campuses, the rape culture is really perverse. And 8 out of 10 of the sexual assaults, alcohol is
involved and the majority of them, it is somebody that they know.
And so, I think there needs to be more of a crackdown on alcohol. There needs to be more education. And I say this, it is ridiculous,
because I remember when I was in college, and even though I had a pretty time, I was a student athlete. A pretty tame party experience, I would
still go out and I would drink too much and I would go back to my dorm room walking back by myself knowing all these things.
I think unfortunately, I kick myself and shudder knowing what could have happened. But even though my parents and educators and all these
different people, outreach had told me not to do those things, we still do. You think you`re invincible.
PINSKY: Yes, we`re still good. But thankfully we got Evy who`s our educator. And, Sam, I know she got on our case about what we revealed on
social media and stuff. She gave us an app to protect herself.
Have you been using the app systematically?
SCHACHER: Me? No. I have not.
PINSKY: Neither have I. So what can we do? I have it on my phone. I will use it sometimes. What do we do?
POUMPOURAS: I`m leaving. I`m going home. I`m gone.
SCHACHER: Help me!
POUMPOURAS: I`m going home. Why am I on this show?
PINSKY: Well, here`s your chance. Help people what they need to do and hopefully, they`ll do it. How can they motivate to do these things?
POUMPOURAS: OK, I want to say one thing with regard to college campuses, safety, and I think it is getting a little bit ridiculous as to
how much we`re trying to blame everybody else for the thing that happen. The colleges should do more, the bar should do more of this.
You know what, at some point the onus is on the individual. If you make bad decisions, if you don`t think these through, these things are
going to happen to you. You`re going to become a victim.
They seize you up. Offenders, they`ve done studies. They asked, how do you pick your victim? They say body language, their demeanor. Are you
wasted? Can you deem yourself together?
At some point, you as an individual, you`re responsible.
And, parents, take care of your kids. Educate them. Not right before they go to college. Don`t say let me tell what you should be aware of when
you go out into the real world. No, this is something you embed in them as a child.
What do you do if? Don`t talk to strangers. Don`t do this.
PINSKY: Evy, stay with me. Evy, I want to bring you across to a behavior bureau. You stay with me and we`re going to talk about being less
vulnerable. Not blaming victims, not becoming a victim, bring in the behavior bureau.
And later, did this woman -- and I really mean did she have a third breast surgically implanted in her body in a horizontal line with her
natural -- it`s just ridiculous. Or is this a hoax?
Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The FBI joining the search for missing Hannah Graham, the investigation focusing on this man, Jesse Matthew. The 32-
year-old has been employed since august 2012 by university hospital, as an operating room patient technician. Land lady said her relationship with
Matthew wasn`t always pleasant but something changed when she talked to him last week.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was a very pleasant conversation. I almost thought it was a different person.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now, she questions how well she knew Matthew.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I`m back with Sam and the behavior bureau. Evy Poumpouras stays with us. Wendy Walsh joins us, psychologist, author of "The 30-Day
Love Detox", and Spirit, as well, host of "The Daily Helpline."
We are talking about missing 18-year-old Hannah Graham and the 32- year-old man who is wanted tonight for abduction with intent to defile.
Wendy, you heard the conversation we had in that last block about alcohol and personal responsibility.
WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: A lot of victim blaming there.
PINSKY: I was worried about that too.
But I think the spirit -- you`ll excuse the expression, Spirit -- the spirit of what we were getting into was well placed. But it ends up
bleeding into victim-blaming, doesn`t it?
WALSH: Absolutely. I think here`s the problem. Nobody wants to take blame for a culture that sometime is inherently violent. That sometimes
produces predators.
But I`ll tell you how this is going to be solved, Dr. Drew. It`s not about changing drinking ages. It is about educating young men and women
about the distinct biological differences in the way that women metabolize alcohol compared to men.
This race that we all have to be equal on every single level and denies our precious perfect biology is absolutely wrong.
And the next thing is, that we need to get men, young men in our camp protecting young women. We need to stop the war on women in this country.
PINSKY: Well, yes.
Sam, I hear you saying yes, with what we`ve just seen from the NFL, where they literally seem to be caught off guard by the whole issue of
domestic violence. As though they had no knowledge domestic violence was a problem in this country.
SCHACHER: Yes. And it`s not only that, Dr. Drew, you`ve seen it in a number of the fraternities. I just remember my experience at UCLA, you see
a lot of, I would overhear people I knew. Stories, this chick got wasted and we ended up having sex, and almost bragging about the sense that they
took advantage of this girl. She was blackout drunk. We did A, B, C, D, and E. And it was almost normative to hear that.
And Wendy is absolutely right. There needs to be education and there needs to be more talk about what exactly constitutes sex. It is not legal
for women or anybody to give consent when they are impaired.
PINSKY: Spirit, that`s the point I was going to make. Do you agree with that?
SPIRIT, HOST, "THE DAILY HELPLINE": I think it runs deeper than that. For me, this is not even about the alcohol. This is about teaching choices
and consequences.
And this starts at a very young age. And I`ll tell you, even when I work with children who are five, six, seven years old, one of the games
that I love to play with them is chutes and ladders. Do you know why? This game teaches choices and consequences. If you eat too many cookies,
you`re going to get sick because you have a stomach ache. If you pile up too many dishes, you`re going to break dishes. That is what happens.
We have to teach our young women. If you make stupid choices, you can become a victim.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Hold on, wait a minute.
Who is that?
WALSH: Yes. I just don`t like that talk because I think we as a culture have a problem. And now it will be sort of men against women and
victim didn`t protect themselves.
SPIRIT: This is not men against women. Men make stupid choices too.
WALSH: Let`s ask what`s wrong with our culture that creates male perpetrators? This is the problem.
SPIRIT: I`m so sorry. Not every woman becomes a victim. You have to teach women, you don`t go out off by yourself and think, oh, well, you have
the right to do that and nothing will happen.
You don`t drink yourself into a stupor and think, so sorry, nobody should take advantage of you. You might be taken advantage of.
We have to teach our women and our men that they can become victims and, to their own poor choices. (AUDIO GAP)
No one put those drinks in her hand. No one had her out on a campus by herself. These are choices that she made and unfortunately, she became
a victim to her choices.
(CROSSTALK)
WALSH: Let`s put all women and quarantine them inside at night. We don`t have a free country.
SPIRIT: That`s not what I`m saying. She should not have been out by herself at night. She shouldn`t have drunk herself into a stupor. No, she
doesn`t deserve to be a victim but bad things happen when we put ourselves in bad situations. That is what we need to teach our children.
PINSKY: Evy, is that what you are talking about in the last segment? Or is it something other point you`re making? Are we getting into the
right territory here?
Like for instance, raising our men to protect women. Good idea. Men perpetrators often come from severe trauma and all kinds of horrible
experiences growing up. So, teaching them to take their women is not going to help that problem very much.
So, what was it you were getting at?
POUMPOURAS: Look, you can teach men to respect women and all that. But, at the end of the day, you`ll have people who will do these things. I
don`t care how much you educate people, you`re never going to get rid of this. This is going to exist. That`s just reality. I`m just telling you
how it is.
And I`ve worked so many cases where I`ve seen victims make poor choices and as Spirit said, there are consequences to the decisions that
you make.
So, yes, when you say the victim made stupid choices, it sounds bad. But at the end of the day, it`s the choices that you make and the places
that you decide --
PINSKY: So what do we do with parents? Start chutes and ladders at a young age?
POUMPOURAS: Yes.
SPIRIT: I`ll tell you this --
POUMPOURAS: You need to start at a young age. You need to educate them from a young age. What do you do -- if something happens to mommy and
daddy, this is what you do. If there`s a fire in the house, this is what you. You don`t bubble wrap your child throughout its whole life and raise
it in a safe environment. I get that.
But when they walk out into the real world, they don`t know how to carry themselves. Sometimes, it`s OK for bad things to happen to children
so that they can learn. Let them learn about the consequences of the decisions that they make.
WALSH: We`re creating a culture of fear.
POUMPOURAS: That`s reality.
PINSKY: I can`t hear. I can`t hear.
POUMPOURAS: Turn on the news and you will see what the reality is. This is the world we live in. You can either protect yourself so that you
can exist, so that you can be safe and your family can be safe. It`s not about fear, it`s about being conscientious and --
(CROSSTALK)
WALSH: This is the wrong question. The conversation should be what you can do to make yourself safer for women.
SCHACHER: Can it be both?
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: Hold on. I agree. I agree with Wendy in the sense, I don`t want to even word it to where a victim will feel like they asked for
it. However, yes, we as young women and men have to be responsible. We have to be cautious, because it isn`t a perfect world out there. I do
think --
PINSKY: Well, Sam.
SCHACHER: we do need to be careful with the wordings.
PINSKY: -- all you got to do is watch what is being reported every day, every hour. It is a scary world we are in. And we do need -- I think
the point is well-taken, more than just male/female relations these days. People have to re-raising our kids. I mean, after all as parents, our main
objectives is to bring our kids safely into adulthood as productive citizen who live a long and flourishing life.
And these days, teaching people to protect themselves does seem to be a very important primary lesson that people need to know. Evy and I spent
a long time in the green room, picking her brain about this. This is a world that`s getting pretty scary.
SCHACHER: Grab, twist, pull.
PINSKY: Next up, is this -- we`re changing gears significantly here, to this woman with three breasts. Is this a real story? Did she actually
talk a plastic surgeon into that?
And later, the model mug shot. Another good-looking person has been arrested and people are offering to bail her out.
Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: Last week, we covered a story about Erika Murray (ph), a Massachusetts mom found living in squalor with the bodies of three dead
infants in a rodent infested house. The mom has been charged with fetal death, concealment, witness intimidation, permitting substantial injury to
a child and animal cruelty. She entered a not guilty plea with respect to all charges.
In our reporting, we stated that the mother was responsible with the death of the babies but law enforcement is still investigating. And no
charges have been brought to that effect. We apologize for the error.
Back with Sam, Kailey, Danielle and Jason Ellis from Sirius XM Radio.
On to our next story, this is the most tweeted and Facebooked story of the day.
A woman who claimed she underwent a $20,000 procedure to add a third breast. You GOT to see it to believe it. I`m not sure -- I`m sure I don`t
believe it. But see what you guys think.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She is an Internet sensation. Jasmine Tridevil, the 21-year-old woman from Tampa, who claims to have had a third breast
implanted. Her video on YouTube has almost a million hits and her pictures on Facebook have gone global.
JASMINE TRIDEVIL: I figured people would be skeptical but its it`s true. I recorded the surgery and it will be on the show.
REPORTER: OK. So people can actually see it?
TRIDEVIL: Jasmine agreed to the interview under the condition we discuss only her self-produced show she hopes will be picked up by a cable
network. When we asked to see her third breast --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHACHER: Oh, my God!
PINSKY: Oh, my God!
Jasmine Tridevil`s YouTube video now has over 3 million hit. She claim she had the procedure to become a reality star.
Jason? Come on now.
JASON ELLIS, SIRIUS XM RADIO: Why can`t just real quickly, Drew, don`t ever do that. OK? I love you just the way you are.
The second thing is, can somebody just grab it? It doesn`t have to be a guy. Can`t go just grab it to figure out if it is real or not then we
can move on? I would hate to think it is fake and we`re talking about this for no reason.
PINSKY: Sam? Hoax or not? What do we know?
SCHACHER: Do you want to know the details, Dr. Drew? OK.
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHACHER: All right. So, here`s -- we`ve done a lot of digging. So, first and foremost, they`ve been on the story sense it exploded over the
week. Jasmine told reporters that her alleged plastic surgeon made her signed a nondisclosure agreement, so it was impossible for anyone to verify
that she actually had the surgery.
Well, a popular hoax-boosting Web site alleges Jasmine`s real name is Alicia Jasmine Hessler. And that Alicia is a Tampa Bay massage therapist
whose business Web site, Alicia`s Golden Touch, interesting, has a banner that reads, here`s a clue, provider of Internet hoaxes in 2014.
And now, TMZ is reporting that a woman with that same name, Alicia Jasmine Hessler, filed a baggage theft claim with the police department and
among the stolen items, get this that she listed is a three breast prosthesis valued at $5,000.
So, I think it is a hoax for that information right there.
ELLIS: Oh, man!
PINSKY: We cannot confirm the Jasmine Tridevil and Alicia Jasmine Hessler are the same person but Kailey, you`re smiling.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I definitely think this is a hoax and the facts certainly point to that. I think the fact remains the same. This woman,
it is a cry for attention. I think it comes from this sensationalist culture.
Let`s ask ourselves, is what she did any different than Kim Kardashian and Paris Hilton putting out sex tapes or Miley Cyrus and all the
sensational things she`s done. These young women learn from stars like this. It creates this culture of women doing really crazy things.
PINSKY: Danielle, I have to agree with Kailey. What do you say?
ROBAY: We have to stop making stupid people famous. This reward for bad behavior is awful.
ELLIS: Can I go first before that`s over?
PINSKY: Go ahead.
ELLIS: I mean, can I be one more stupid famous people before it is over?
ROBAY: No, you`re not stupid.
PINSKY: In a way, males doing these outrageous sorts of stunts is in that same category, is it not? The jack ass stuff?
ELLIS: Well, I think that it is some of those stunts, some of them are my friends so I have to watch what I say.
PINSKY: They`re my friends too. Listen, they`re my friends, too. I`m just saying, the guys we know are professional, to be fair. They make
a career out of this.
ELLIS: I don`t think every kid can do that. It is harder than you think.
PINSKY: All right. Now, 21-year-old Jasmine Tridevil briefly revealed her breast to a local reporter. And, let us all watch carefully
to see if we can see evidence of a prosthesis.
ELLIS: I am watching.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: All right, Jason. Go ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Can you hold up a little longer, so we can get a better shot of it?
JASMINE TRIDEVIL, 21-YEAR-OLD WOMAN WITH SURGICALLY ATTACHED THIRD BREAST: I do not feel comfortable doing that just yet.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: OK.
TRIDEVIL: Because that is also going to be on my show where I am walking out on the beach with this top on. And, I want to save that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Sam, is that where you think it becomes a hoax right there?
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, HLN CO-HOST: Yes. Dr. Drew, listen. She is a total scam artist. Here is the thing and I think Kelly hit the nail on the
head. Everybody has access to the internet. So, that includes narcissists and scam artists and criminals and nut jobs.
And, I know you hate using that term, but I am sorry, she is all of the above. She is using social media to her advantage. And, even though
we are all talking about it negatively, she does not care. She is just happy that we are talking about it.
PINSKY: Now, she told several media outlets that she had been rejected by more than 50 physicians who reported violating their ethical
responsibilities before she did find a willing surgeon. Such a surgeon will have to be called out.
I mean his professional societies will have to know who he or she is, number 1. Number 2: People cannot have a third breast or even a fourth
breast, but it goes along what is called the nipple line. It is a vertical line that goes -- People have supernumerary nipples, looked like moles that
is in a sort of aligned, like dogs have a nipple line?
ELLIS: Yes. They are not as exciting.
PINSKY: They do not cross.
ELLIS: They are not as exciting.
PINSKY: I understand that.
ELLIS: It should have been a television install. That would have been way more useful.
SCHACHER: What?
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: I think I know where you are going with that. We have tried to locate this person but have not been able to reach her. Jasmine, we
want to talk to you and hear your side of the story. So, please get a hold of us. We would be happy to interview you and hear your details and
explain why you had these three breast prosthesis that you declared.
ELLIS: Get her on my show, Drew. Then I will really find out.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Well, I will make you a deal. If I get her I will send her over to you, because I do know you will be able to have a more frank
discussion with her.
ELLIS: Sam. Sam.
SCHACHER: Yes?
ELLIS: You come on my show. You feel it because I am not that kind of guy.
SCHACHR: OK.
ELLIS: You feel it then you tell me if it is real and then it is over. It is settled.
SCHACHER: Done and done.
PINSKY: Done and done.
ELLIS: Thank you.
PINSKY: Exactly. Next, Behavior Bureau comes in. Does anyone will really support this woman? Does anybody think it is real? And, by the
way, more commentary on this fame gone wile. And, later, another mug shot gone viral. We have talked about the hot fellow. Now, we meet the so-
called, babe behind bars.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Some of the comments from the public have been cruel. Jasmine said she predicted that, but she is willing to do
whatever it takes to be famous. Dr. Dan Greenwald of Bayshore Plastic Surgery says that raises red flags.
DR. DAN GREENWALD, BAYSHORE PLASTIC SURGEON: I think it is very extreme. And, that leaves me to wonder why she needs this attention. Is
there something -- is there some instability? Is there something psychologically lacking or out of balance for this person?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: And, jasmine`s reaction to that?
TRIDEVIL: I saw it coming.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Let us get into it. We are back with Sam and our Behavior Bureau, Jena Kravitz, Clinical Psychologist, Wendy and Spirit joins us
again. A woman calling herself Jasmine Tridevil saw it coming.
She became a social media internet sensation. She claims she had a third breast surgically added because she wants to be famous. Sam, what is
the reaction at our Dr. Drew HLN Facebook page?
SCHACHER: We have hundreds of comments, Dr. Drew. And, surprise, surprise, the majority of them are negative. I will read a couple of them
right here. Jackie writes, quote, "A shame what people will do for attention and money. Sad how she has nothing else to offer and obviously
no skills. Very sad." Here is one from Sandy. Quote, "There is four boobs in that picture if you count her."
SPIRIT CLANTON, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Whoa!
PINSKY: Oh!
SCHACHER: Oh.
PINSKY: So, Jena my question is, though, that doctor was saying that there is something wrong with her. There is something psychologically at
issue. She has narcissism, or you know injury or whatever it might be. My question is whether it is a hoax or not, does it make any difference? Is
the behavior the same? This fame seeking?
JENA KRAVITZ, PSY.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Absolutely. So, fame- seeking behavior is totally not uncommon and it is not pathological. There are a lot of people in the world that want fame. The problem is that she
is taking this to an extent that is completely ridiculous.
And, this suggests about her, this sort of desperate need for social acceptance, to be desired, respected, get attention. And, the bigger
problem here is that people like all of us are sitting around talking about it. So, she has actually achieved what she is set out to do. We are
reinforcing her behavior.
PINSKY: I agree. But, Wendy, would it not be accurate to say that if it is a joke -- if it is a hoax, the joke is on us. And, if she actually
violated her body integrity to pull this nonsense off, that says a lot more about how far she is willing to go for a fame.
WENDY WALSH, PH.D., PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes. And, I actually think this is more of just a hoax with a joke on us. But, you could analyze why boobs,
why the three of them? Why the devil thing? She has made a clown out of herself, a devilish clown in some way.
So, you could analyze really how she thinks about herself. But, for those who say this woman is not smart, I want to remind you she has some
high functioning habits. Can you imagine if she was selling some major brand?
She figured out how to reach the media, how to get the clicks, how to get the back story about her parents, telling her parents, and her mother
crying, et cetera, knowing the human interest angle. This woman could be a great PR person someday if she applied her skills to some another kind of
product.
PINSKY: You are bending my mind a little bit. So, we are saying PR people are manipulative in a good way --
WALSH: Yes.
PINSKY: -- because it serves their career needs.
WALSH: Of course.
PINSKY: Spirit, what Jena said I agree with, though. Fame seeking is now an autonomous measurable phenomenon across the globe. In years past,
you would measure -- you know, ask young people what they wanted to do with their lives.
And, they would say, I want to make a good living. I want to be a father. I want to -- whatever. They wanted to be a fireman. They want to
do something worthwhile. Now, as a separate autonomous goal, young people will say, I want to be famous. And, that is a change, is it not?
CLANTON: Right, because it changes their life, Dr. Drew. And, this is why, I say we have got to stop pimping our poor people and our young
people and our sick people in this society, because we are perpetuating this.
What we are telling them is, if you want a different life, then what you have to do is be abnormal. You have to be extreme. How far can you go
to get everyone`s attention? And, then you will be rewarded with fame, with money, and with power. And, that will change your life. So, we got
to stop reinforcing this behavior.
PINSKY: Is that Wendy or Jena?
SCHACHER: It is Sam.
PINSKY: Sam.
SCHACHER: The difference really quickly is, before you actually had - - before social media, you actually had to have a talent to get some sort of a attention. And, now with social media, unfortunately, you can just do
something crazy for it to go viral and then boom, you got your 15 minutes of fame and you can capitalize on it. And, it is really sad.
PINSKY: You know that is right. Yes, Jena, everyone has access. I actually have the research. I did the research on this. I have the only
published ad on this. We were able to show that people with a skill or a purpose were less likely to have the severe narcissism as opposed to
someone who is just making a bid through a reality show or an online maneuver of some type, who really see severe narcissism.
KRAVITZ: Yes. Oh my gosh, Dr. Drew, I used to watch the Jersey Shore and I thought to myself, I spent ten years in graduate school and somehow
Snooki is more famous than me. This is the model that we have for people that live in this country. She is looking at people like that thinking, if
they can do it, I can do it too.
PINSKY: And, she did.
KRAVITZ: Yes.
SCHACHER: That is right.
PINSKY: Next. Mug shot --
CLANTON: That is why I have people who come into my office.
PINSKY: Go ahead Spirit.
CLANTON: Listen. Last week I actually had a woman who came into my office and said that she wishes, if she had it to do all over again, she
would not have paid $100,000 to go to college and got a degree.
She would have got her breasts done and her butt done and gone out into the media because she would have made more money. She would have had
more value and she would not be in the debt that she is in now as a doctor.
PINSKY: Speaking of value. I hope that was hyperbole and you know --
CLANTON: No.
PINSKY: -- a little emotional excess there.
CLANTON: No.
PINSKY: But, we got to remember what a good life is, and the real values that we have to offer as human beings. We have lost sight of it.
We got to reorient and pull it back.
Now, we got to switch to another topic. This now is about criminals who people look at their mug shot and think, "Oh, this is great." The mug
shot has become the new sex tape. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCHACHER: This guy is gorgeous. And, it is such a double standard. Remember the reaction from men when disgusting murderer Jodi Arias was all
over the news?
ELLIS: You are giving the psycho mean guy promises.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: Attractive people have advantages. And it is a sad, sad, sad truth. They get paid better. People think they are
smarter.
ELLIS: What is wrong with you all? Just because you are kind of hot does not mean you are worth hanging out with or giving promises. You are a
psycho. To go jail with your pretty face!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam. I brought Jason back to discuss this again, Spirit and Evy. Hundreds of Twitter users offered to donate bail money to
get this woman whom they found to be just so attractive, they could not contain themselves to get her out of jail.
Police detained her for disorderly conduct. Kept her locked up for about 12 hours. Not long enough to get her own -- It was just long enough
to get her own hash tag, which became #prisonbabe. So, Evy I kept you here to answer this question. Do we let people off easier when they are
attractive?
EVY POUMPOURAS, LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes, we do. I have seen it. Everybody knows, especially with something as simple as when you get pulled
over by a police officer, the girl that is driving is pretty and young and the police officer likes her, he is less likely to give her a ticket.
I have seen it just in my own experience. Sometimes the difference in the way people are being treated. Offenders, people have committed crimes,
but because somebody is aesthetically pleasing to us, we are just a little bit nicer to them. We enjoy looking at them. So, yes, everybody does
this.
PINSKY: Spirit, do you do that?
CLANTON: No. So, sorry. But, I do understand exactly where she is coming from. You know, I am just tough all the way around. It is just
kind of the way that things are. Excuse me. I am losing my ear piece over here. But, at the end of the day, it is like what the guy said. We have
to take personal accountability. So, what that she is hot? Is she gorgeous? Yes. But does she have problems? Yes. You pay her bail and
then bring her home.
PINSKY: Right. That is right.
CLANTON: Let us see if she does not clean out your house.
PINSKY: That is right.
CLANTON: That is reality.
PINSKY: Sam, right? People are in denial because of what they see. Do you have the three mug shot line up that you can show us? I am going to
have Jason respond to all three of these. Now, Jason, the guy in the middle upset you because you thought the guy was a drug addict and if you
saw him in motion you would feel differently. How about either the two that are flanking him? Do you have any reaction to them?
ELLIS: My reaction is exactly the same, Sam. These people are criminals. And, I do not care what they look like. And, I wish everyone
would stop talking about them just because they are kind of cute. And, the new one, the chick, she got the weird lazy eye thing. So, she is not that
hot any way.
SCHACHER: OK.
ELLIS: We need to move on. You are cute, you are a criminal, what did she do exactly? I want to know what she did?
SCHACHER: She was disorderly conduct.
ELLIS: What did she do, though to be disorderly?
SCHACHER: I do not know what she did to be disorderly. I do not know the details. But, listen, from the very beginning, whether it was Jeremy
Meeks or this woman, all I have ever said is that they are attractive. That is a fact.
ELLIS: No. No. No. You did not say they were attractive. If you were not married, would you date that guy. You thought he was hot.
SCHACHER: No. Come on. He is hot. Yes, you cannot deny that. But, you should not --
ELLIS: I would not date her.
SCHACHER: You should not -- people should not be posting their bail. I do not care what you look like. If you commit a crime you do the time.
OK?
ELLIS: OK. Good.
SCHACHER: Thank you.
ELLIS: The only reason I am agreeing with you is because you are so hot.
(LAUGHING)
SCHACHER: OK. Fine.
PINSKY: I am enjoying this. I am really enjoying this. All right. So, this is back also to that celebrity issue too. Are we elevating people
needlessly to a status that they do not deserve? And, what does that say about us?
Let me get out of this. We are going to come back. If you guy will help me out there. I want everyone at home to help us out with a mile
storm we are nearing on Instagram. You can help us get there, if you go to @dr.drewhln. Got a milestone for us. We need your help. We will be right
back, right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MIKE CATHERWOOD, DR. DREW`S LOVE LINE CO-HOST: Good looking people get away with anything and people always bent over backwards to please good
looking people.
PINSKY: If you and Lynn Berry and Robin Mead, you guys are into this guy. I know it. I see it. I see it. It is all right. Do not apologize.
SCHACHER: We can give credit where credit is due, Dr. Drew.
CATHERWOOD: Drew, I am appalled at you.
PINSKY: Why?
CATHERWOOD: You and I do the exact same thing. The same thing that all other men do. And, once women do this, it is like this big story.
Every guy I know, it is like, I would bang Casey Anthony.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Jason, Spirit and Evy. Question is do good people get all the brakes? Police locked up this woman for disorderly
conduct. Jason says we should stay away from her. But her mug shot hit twitter. Hundreds of men offered to pay for her bail.
She was released 12 hours later. And, the question is does this so- called hot bias end in the courtroom? Juries convict good-looking people like Jodi Arias, Scott Peterson, Amanda Knox? What do you think, Spirit?
Does it only go so far?
CLANTON: No. Come on. Even with little kids, cute kids get the candy. Cute kids get the favoritism from the teachers. They even get
favouritism from their parents a lot of times.
PINSKY: Wow.
CLANTON: We learn at an early age -- Let us just be real. We learn at an early age that beauty will get you very far in this life. We know
this. Every kind of research across the board in every genre of our lives has shown us that pretty people, or handsome people fare better.
PINSKY: Yes. Except, Spirit -- Jason, as I have seen some data shows that very good looking particularly men are not trusted that much. They
tend to get be sort of looked at suspiciously, as they cannot be trusted.
SCHACHER: Interesting.
CLANTON: They still get more women and higher pay.
PINSKY: Yes. They do. That is true. Jason.
ELLIS: I give ugly kids candy all the time. That is a lie.
(LAUGHING)
CLANTON: That is scary.
ELLIS: It is only a joke.
SCHACHER: The white van?
ELLIS: I was joking.
PINSKY: I know that.
ELLIS: I know. We are kidding. We are kidding.
PINSKY: Here is what I want to do. We have received a ton of tweets asking us about the app that every referenced earlier in the show tonight.
Sam, you were given me -- Sam, we were giving one another grief about the app that Evy very carefully taught us about that we did not use
systematically --
SCHACHER: I know.
PINSKY: There is one of the tweets, right there. So, Evy, I want to give you a couple minutes to explain what ought we be doing and what are
the available resources to help us protect ourselves?
SCHACHER: Please.
POUMPOURAS: OK. So, I will just give you like a quick synopsis. App guys is one that has been shared with me. It is called the investigator
app. Now, what that app does is when you take a picture, OK, metadata is saved on to the picture, meaning the location where you took the picture,
the date and time. It even also says like the type of phone you have and it gives a lot of information about your phone itself.
PINSKY: Evy. Evy. Evy, is that just Instagram or is that every time you use the camera?
POUMPOURAS: No. So, you take your picture, right?
PINSKY: Yes.
POUMPOURAS: After you take your picture. Then you go to this app, the investigator app. You select the picture you want. And, then it says
do you want to remove metadata from this photo? You say, yes. You remove the metadata from the photo. Then you post it. Do you understand what I
am saying?
PINSKY: Yes.
POUMPOURAS: So, that way, when you post something, people cannot figure out your location. Because somebody can actually -- if you do not
remove the location services on your phone or do something like this, people can figure out where you took your phone. And, where do we take a
lot of our photos? At home.
This was the big scam too when people would post things on Craigslist or eBay. If you were selling like a diamond ring that was $30,000.
Criminals were able to figure out. They look at the metadata on that photo and they are like, "Oh, this person lives here." And, then they know to go
to your house, watch your house. Wait for you to leave and go inside and look for your ring or your flat screen T.V. or whatever it was you were
trying to sell.
SCHACHER: Wow.
PINSKY: Jason, you do a lot of picture taking. Have you ever thought about that?
ELLIS: I feel like you could come to my house, I do not think anybody -- you are not going to win. It is a bad move. I do not think anybody
would want to steal anything from me, honestly. I mean this is kind of like to keep you away but it is also -- it is kind of a fact. It is really
a bad idea to steal from me.
PINSKY: It was not just stealing. She was giving us brief. We were all in Atlanta together. And, Sam was carefully -- Sam was announcing
where we were. You do not have to go to the metadata.
POUMPOURAS: Right. Sam is like, "Hi, everybody."
ELLIS: I want everybody to come see me. I love people.
SCHACHER: Well, you do not have a threat. I do not have a Jason Ellis next to me all the time. I need to follow and listen to Evy.
ELLIS: Yes. You should.
SCHACHER: I should.
PINSKY: And, especially -- Go ahead, Evy. Finish.
POUMPOURAS: Look, just in this world of social media everybody, a lot of the fraud and the way people are victimized, identity theft, all that.
They get it from social media. So, just really think about what you are sharing. And, one more thing, Dr. Drew, security questions. We all have
those for our banks and stuff. Things like what is your pet`s name? You know, where is your favorite hobby? Where did you go for your honeymoon?
PINSKY: Real quick.
POUMPOURAS: Where did you get married? Right? Do not -- never put the truth. Always make those answers up. OK?
PINSKY: Forensic Files, now.
END
