Return to Transcripts main page

CNN NEWSROOM

U.S. And Coalition Targets ISIS in Syria

Aired September 23, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back. This is CNN special live coverage. I'm Anderson Cooper.

We're now being told this is only the beginning of a new U.S.-led war against ISIS militants. Across Syria, U.S. warplanes, fighter jets, Tomahawk missiles there you see targeted ISIS training camps and key command centers. But we're also learning ISIS were not the only targets of U.S. airstrikes.

In the northwest, a little known branch of al Qaeda was apparently in the final stages of executing an attack, this according to U.S. officials, attack on Western targets and possibly an attack on the United States.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Last night, we also took strikes to disrupt plotting against the United States and our allies by seasoned al Qaeda operatives in Syria who are known as the Khorasan group. And once again, it must be clear to anyone who would plot against America and try to do Americans harm that we will not tolerate safe havens for terrorists who threaten our people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: A source telling CNN that this terror cell had been working on a bomb made of clothes dipped in explosive material, as well as perhaps toothpaste.

Joining me now is Barbara Starr, CNN Pentagon correspondent.

so we have heard some back and forth, Barbara, about the verbiage of whether this was an imminent threat. We're also learning about some other potential plans. What have you heard?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, the administration says it went ahead with this attack against the Khorasan group because it did pose an imminent threat, that it was in the advance stages of planning an attack against either the U.S. or Western targets.

Whether the U.S. had any idea of what the precise target was is a completely different question. But the worry was clearly as they moved to make these types of explosive devices, the U.S. might lose track of them, the devices, the potential bombers, that you had to move against them now. That was the calculation. Where are we today? The U.S. is now

conducting essentially battle damage assessment, bomb damage assessment of the targets of Khorasan that they struck, flying overhead, satellites, drones, aircraft, looking at the damage, trying to see where they are on all of this. We are told if they determine they were as successful as they believe they were, it is possible that they have really disrupted a plot to attack the United States.

COOPER: Do we know how large a group we're talking about, this Khorasan group is?

STARR: I don't know that anybody has a really good fix on it. What you hear from intelligence analysts is these are old-time, hard-core, battle-hardened al Qaeda veterans combined with other jihadists. There are many other groups operating inside Syria, and that some of them actually have come from the al Qaeda core group back in Pakistan, essentially, the old days of al Qaeda.

We believe that what the U.S. is trying to determine right now is whether they might have been even been successful in killing the leader of this group, a Kuwaiti, but that is unconfirmed at this point. There's a lot of chatter about it, but the U.S. still hasn't determined whether they really got the man.

COOPER: All right. Barbara Starr, appreciate it.

As I mentioned, the attack that the U.S. carried out alone was against this group of veteran al Qaeda operatives called the Khorasan that we were just talking about.

This amateur video purportedly shows the U.S. airstrike against that terrorist group. National security officials just acknowledged the existence of Khorasan last week. Now military officials are stressing the reason Khorasan is in Syria is to advance its agenda against the West.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LT. GEN. WILLIAM MAYVILLE JR., JOINT STAFF DIRECTOR OF OPERATIONS: We have been watching this group closely for some time. We believe the Khorasan group was nearing the execution phase of an attack either in Europe or the homeland.

And we know that the Khorasan group has attempted to recruit Westerners to serve as operatives or to infiltrate back into their homelands. The Khorasan group is clearly not focused on either the Assad regime or the Syrian people. They are establishing roots in Syria in order to advance attacks against the West and the homeland.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: Joining me now is CNN terrorism analyst Paul Cruickshank and national correspondent Deborah Feyerick.

What do we know specifically about their plans?

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What is interesting about their plan is that everyone says they knew they were close.

And what makes the Khorasan group so dangerous is that even though they were operating in Syria, they have one objective, and that is to carry out a major attack in the West, possibly against the United States.

As you heard Barbara say, this is a small, hard-core, battle-trained force of veteran al Qaeda operatives. And what we're being told is there are a few dozen, tops. They have bomb makers. But most specifically, they have a delivery system. And that is recruits that hold Western passports.

Now, the leader, a man by the name of Muhsin al-Fadhli, was part of the 9/11 planning. So he knew of the hijackers, he knew of the plot to fly planes. So he's really sort of part of the old guard. His new guard, his bodyguard, actually, was in Syria, was recently captured and interrogated by the Assad regime.

And a source says at that time he told the authorities that the group's focus was external operations. Now, what we're learning about the plot itself, an intelligence source telling us that within the last week information came to light that the group was ready to activate, to become operational, the possible plot, according to that source, clothing dipped in explosives or some type of nonmetallic device, something like a toothpaste tube that also had explosive materials.

And a CNN official that was speaking to CNN's Pamela Brown said that Khorasan attack targets were in Europe and the United States. They were twofold, either large sophisticated-type attacks or smaller, less sophisticated attacks. The group much further along than anybody was comfortable with. Passenger planes have always remained a prime al Qaeda target.

We saw that with the 2009 underwear bomber. No one is confirming that right now whether that was the specific target, but what we do know is that the militants had obtained materials, but, again, unclear where, when, and what it is that they were looking to attack.

COOPER: It's interesting, Paul, when I think of bomb makers, I think of al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, particularly this bomb maker who is believed to be in Yemen. But it sounds like this Khorasan group also has expertise in relatively sophisticated bomb making, sort of next generation bombing.

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: And here's the concern, that Ibrahim al-Asiri, the master bomb maker in Yemen, has trained apprentices in Yemen how to get bombs on to U.S. planes. Those apprentices have traveled, it's feared, to Syria and joined up with the Khorasan group. The fear is, this group now has that key bomb making technology to bring down U.S. and Western passenger jets.

COOPER: It's also interesting to me they're using Syria, that they're basing in Syria not because they're opposed to the Assad regime, as so many of these other groups are in Syria, but, frankly, kind of like a parasite. They're kind of using this host because it's a volatile region and it's kind of easier to hide there than perhaps in Pakistan or elsewhere.

CRUICKSHANK: That's exactly right. A couple years ago, al Qaeda central in Pakistan started deliberately sending operatives from that region over to Syria, a safe haven there, a civil war, somewhere where they can operate, they can build these training camps and they can recruit European recruits, American recruits to bring terror back to the West.

COOPER: Some people watching this are going to be saying, well, wait a minute, everyone has been talking about ISIS for the last month or so, largely because of the beheading videos they have put out and they have done a great job on social media of getting their message across and trying to kind of bolster, make themselves look 10 feet tall, when, in fact, there are other groups out there that are still out there that have real technical sophistication and are solely devoted to trying to attack the West, as opposed to ISIS, which is right now trying to build this caliphate.

CRUICKSHANK: That's absolutely right.

Some of these groups are smaller than ISIS, but pose the more immediate threat. The worry now that the United States is involved in airstrikes against ISIS in Syria is that ISIS is going to get involved in this as well, that ISIS is going to prioritize launching attacks against the West. They have not done that so far.

But they have tens of millions of dollars in cash reserves, obviously a thousand European recruits. They have everything they need to also plot attacks back in the West.

FEYERICK: And one thing about al Qaeda is, al Qaeda has always made clear that they're going to go back to the same targets, the same attacks. They still -- they have been thinking about this more than a dozen years. They know exactly what it is they want to attack. Hitting passenger planes, hitting any planes, whether it's in Europe or elsewhere, would clearly have such a fundamental impact on the U.S. economy and the other economies.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: What's interesting about the way things are now and especially with social media is, you don't need to have an attack on a large-scale target like a plane or, you know, the World Trade Center to have a major impact.

I think about the Mumbai attacks where you had a handful of gunmen paralyze the city of Mumbai for days after attacking a hotel. You had a jihadist, you know, beheading a British soldier on the streets in the United Kingdom. You could have -- and Khorasan apparently was interested in perhaps not just large attacks, but also smaller attacks. You could have an individual or a series of individuals, you know, kind of doing dramatic...

FEYERICK: The Westgate Mall attack.

(CROSSTALK)

FEYERICK: That's something that officials really fear, because think about it, you have a handful of gunmen who were able to get to a location, coordinate -- that was in Nairobi.

(CROSSTALK)

FEYERICK: And, so, yes, they're continuously thinking about how they can wreak maximum havoc. It doesn't have to be a plane, but, as Paul will probably acknowledge, al Qaeda just likes to keep poking and poking and saying, oh, we're coming back at you. We're coming back at you. You have TSA? We will still get you.

CRUICKSHANK: And the worry now is that there are hundreds of veterans from this jihadist conflict in Syria and Iraq who are back now in Europe. They may be able to get even over to the United States.

But for al Qaeda hitting passenger jets, it's still a big goal. Think of the global economic repercussions if you take a passenger jet out of the sky. So they're still very much fixated on this. This is very real, this threat.

COOPER: All right, Paul Cruickshank, thanks very much, Deb Feyerick as well.

Up next, the Pentagon's candid revelations about which targets they hit, showing before-and-after pictures. One of David Petraeus' former aides breaks them down for us.

Plus, we will discuss the Arab nations that helped the U.S. attack ISIS inside Syria. Will more countries follow America's lead? The Pentagon says this is only the beginning.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, the airstrikes against ISIS showcase a massive arsenal used by the U.S. and its allies; dozens of cruise missiles, as well as bomber and fighter aircraft were unleashed.

CNN's Tom Foreman is in Washington right now with a closer look at the kinds of weaponry that was actually used -- Tom.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Anderson, this really was a huge array.

The tip of the spear was the cruise missile launch. And if you think about it, Tomahawk cruise missiles are capable of traveling at a tremendous speed, about 550 miles an hour. Each weighs about 1,000 pounds, can carry 1,000-pound warhead.

And when those missiles fly out from their launch site, they can go a tremendous distance to hit their targets. And here's where the targets were. If you go into the country, they're up in here. These missiles were fired from so far away, there was no ability of anyone up in here to strike back at the launching sites.

That's the attraction of cruise missiles, the standoff for the launch. Nonetheless, it's important to note this. They were most heavily relied on over here in the first strike in the western-most area. Why is that the case? That's the case because right over in here is where Syrian government and military forces remain the strongest.

They have genuine air defenses, genuine fighter jets capable of engaging airplanes. So, there was more reliance on cruise missiles hitting on over. All the aircraft came into play much more over here, Anderson, when you went to the second and the third strike regions and there were a lot of aircraft there, Anderson.

COOPER: Tom Foreman, appreciate it. Thanks very much.

Want to talk about the military strategy and tactics behind the U.S.- led coalition and attacks in Syria and also about what comes next.

I'm joined by retired U.S. Army Colonel Peter Mansoor, former aide to General David Petraeus.

Colonel Mansoor, I appreciate you being with us

No military campaign is easy. Certainly, the initial stages of an air campaign always seems simpler than the later stages, when targets are much harder to find and to strike is -- is there a limited target list in this air war on ISIS? Because it's not as if there are command- and-control facilities like Saddam's old military.

COL. PETER MANSOOR (RET.), U.S. ARMY: Well, I think it's fair to say we hit the easiest targets and the most lucrative targets first, the fixed facilities that can't move around where we know there would be soldiers or fighters sleeping, people in their beds, weapons and ammunition and equipment stored.

And those are the easy targets, but you're right. War is a process of action, reaction and counteraction. And now the ISIS will disperse their fighters in bed with the population and it'll be much harder going forward to prosecute this air campaign with as much effect as we had last night.

COOPER: I want to talk about in Iraq because the future there really relies, it seems, on peeling away the Sunni supporters of ISIS, these former -- these Baathists, former Saddam military guys, people who took part in the Sunni awakening who were then disenchanted with Maliki, payments by Maliki stopped to them.

Your old boss David Petraeus in 2006, 2007, you were there. That was part of what was integral to the Sunni awakening. How do you see that actually occurring? I mean, if that is essential for success to peel away the Sunni support for ISIS, how do you go about doing that without large numbers of U.S. personnel on the ground if the Iraqi, you know, leadership, which has not shown a willingness to do that in the last couple of years, even though there's been a change in leadership, how do you see that happening? MANSOOR: Well, I think you have just struck to the heart of the

matter. The boots on the ground that are the most important are the Sunni tribes of Al Anbar and Nineveh and Salahuddin provinces and other places in Northwestern Iraq and then even in Eastern Syria.

It's these tribes that it's imperative to bring on board, because once they turn on is, ISIS' days are numbered. But it's not going to happen without some sort of political accommodation to bring them on board, whether that's increased federalism, you know, their own administrative state within a larger Iraq, share of the oil revenue, perhaps their own armed forces in the terms of a national guard.

But I think it's also going to require U.S. special forces to go in there and work with the tribes to make them truly effective once they stand up to fight ISIS. And this is the part of the strategy that's missing from what the president has said when he's boxed himself in to this no boots on the ground, no forces in contact, no forces in combat.

COOPER: Here's the thing I don't understand. If I'm a Sunni tribesman and I have seen what Maliki did once the U.S. left, I have seen the money stop, I have seen the -- you know, I have seen Sunnis in the Iraqi military relegated to lower positions, I have seen incompetent generals buying their way in and then finally abandoning their troops, I have seen Shia militias, Shia death squads now enmeshed in Iraqi military units defending Baghdad and out on the field, why would I trust the central government at all unless they make a major, major effort, as you say, to devolve power or reach out?

MANSOOR: Yes, certainly, the tribesmen are not going to ally with the Americans or the Iraqis based on promises.

They allied with us in 2006, 2007, and 2008 because we were better than what they were suffering under al Qaeda in Iraq. But then they were let go by the Iraqi government. They were persecuted and prosecuted by Nouri al-Maliki. And now they're going to need something tangible they can hold on to that's going to assure them that when this is over if they destroy ISIS that they're just not going to be jettisoned once again.

COOPER: Right. And that takes time, as you said.

Colonel Mansoor, I appreciate you being on. Thank you very much. Fascinating.

Five countries join the United States in the air campaign in ISIS and Syria, all of them in the Mideast, all of them Arab, all of them vital to the United States' mission. We will explore that ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, the U.S. is at war against ISIS and Syria, not alone, five Arab nations supporting the offensive, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, the United Arab Emirates striking targets alongside American fighter jets and Qatar playing a supportive role. Today, Secretary Kerry said more than 50 countries have agreed to join

the partnership. The president praised the coalition today at the White House. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: We were joined in this action by our friends and partners -- Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Jordan, Bahrain, and Qatar. America is proud to stand shoulder to shoulder with these nations on behalf of our common security.

The strength of this coalition makes it clear to the world that this is not America's fight alone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COOPER: I want to bring in Bobby Ghosh, who has covered this region probably more than anybody. He's a CNN contributor, managing editor of Quartz.

Let's look at this coalition of nations here on the board, because it is really significant to have Sunni nations attacking now a Sunni extremist group and doing it publicly.

BOBBY GHOSH, MANAGING EDITOR, QUARTZ: Absolutely.

For years, these nations have been reluctant to engage directly with terrorists. They said that it's not considered appropriate for them to participate like this. But now that old taboo has been broken. It's a big symbolic gesture. The actual military capabilities of their air forces are kind of mixed and it's possible that the U.S. could've done this by themselves. But the optics are important.

It's important in this country where a lot of people are asking the question, why aren't the Arabs fixing their own problems? And it's obviously very important in the Arab world for them to see that it's a group effort.

COOPER: And certainly a sign that a number of these countries, I mean, view ISIS as a significant threat, not even to the United States or to the West, but to them, to their survival, Jordan, Saudi Arabia.

GHOSH: Yes. Yes, this is a much bigger problem for them than it is for us at this point. ISIS is killing Muslims, it is killing Arabs on a monumental scale.

It has already taken large parts of two Arab countries. It has threatened Jordan recently. So, yes, it's -- this has always been their problem more than it is ours. They have been reluctant to take it on board. Now it looks like they're willing to come along for this fight.

COOPER: Turkey, as you know, has come under criticism for not being here in the initial phases. Do you think behind the scenes they're likely involved? GHOSH: Oh, yes. Turkey has got enormous intelligence assets in both

Syria and in that part of Iraq, where ISIS is active. And I have got to think that a lot of the intelligence that is -- that the U.S. is acting upon has to be coming from Turkish sources.

There are political reasons in Turkey why they can't step up right now, although we're hearing that that's beginning to change and Turkey might be a little more amenable. And I'm inclined to cut the Turks some slack. They have taken on another part of this problem which is very important, which is to house and feed and clothe hundreds of thousands of refugees.

COOPER: The refugees, right.

Look at this huge border here with Syria, Syria and Turkey, and you have had huge numbers, hundreds of thousands crossing the border.

(CROSSTALK)

GHOSH: Just this past weekend, 150,000 from Syria's Kurdish population have crossed over into Turkey. Turkey is having to host all these people. So let's cut Turkey a little bit of slack. I think they will come along now that the Arab nations have gotten involved. But they will come to it in their own time.

COOPER: Also, just looking at the strikes themselves, a number of targets, obviously, Iraq hitting heavily at ISIS-controlled areas, also at this other al Qaeda offshoot group.

When you look at the map, though, these are the sort of the low- hanging fruit. These are the most obvious targets and probably the targets that are easiest to hit. The list is going to start to dwindle relatively quickly, I would think.

GHOSH: This is day one of a very, very long campaign. Everyone in the administration, in the military is saying this is going to be years. This is just a statement of intent. This is just telling the world, telling ISIS that they are targets and it's also telling all those other tribes that are associated with ISIS that we are beginning to take aim at ISIS.

And they're going to now begin to ask themselves whether it's worth their while to go along with ISIS and risk these bombs landing in their homes.

COOPER: The question is, what's the alternative? I was just talking to a former military official from -- who served in Iraq under Petraeus. In order to get these Sunni groups who are now supporting ISIS to peel away, that's not an easy thing to do, given the distrust of the central government in Baghdad.

GHOSH: No, that's true.

In the last go-around with Petraeus, we were able to do that because there were American promises made to those tribes, American money put in their hands, American support. And when we left, the government in Baghdad said those are promises...

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: Right. Maliki stopped the funds.

GHOSH: We're not going to do this.

So it's crucial -- now that Prime Minister Abadi is here in New York, it's crucial to figure out what his plan is, and if he's going to go along with this, because, if he doesn't, then all this effort is wasted.

COOPER: Right.

GHOSH: He's made some initial gestures toward the Sunnis. Those are good ones and they need to be built upon.

COOPER: Well, we will be watching. Bobby Ghosh, appreciate it. Thanks very much.

The question is, how will Congress shape the war on ISIS? Will they do that now that the airstrikes have begun in Syria?

And he wanted to be the president to end wars, not start them. Coming up next, we will take a look at President Obama's role as a somewhat reluctant warrior with former House Speaker Newt Gingrich.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)