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CNN NEWSROOM
Search For Pennsylvania's Suspected Cop Killer Expands; Second White House Breach In As Many Days; Battle Against ISIS Near Turkey- Syria Rages On; Man Kidnapped With Sotloff Says He Was Never Questioned By U.S. Officials; Goodell Press Conference Analyzed; New ISIS Video Released
Aired September 20, 2014 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANA CABRERA, CNN ANCHOR: You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. Thanks for joining me. I'm Ana Cabrera. Glad to have you spending part of your weekend with us.
Right now the frantic manhunt for the suspected cop killer in Pennsylvania appears to be expanding. Eric Frein is a self-trained survivalist with a grudge against cops possibly holed up somewhere in the Pocono Mountains.
According to his FBI most-wanted poster, Frein claims he fought with Serbians in Africa and he has studied Russia and Serbian languages. Police are telling people in price, in their township now to stay inside, stay away from the windows. People there are essentially locked inside their homes.
Last night police apparently thought they had Frein cornered. Shots were exchanged near a home in the Poconos, but still no arrest. So no conclusion to all this. Frein allegedly ambushed and gunned down police officer Byron Dixon last week. Another officer was seriously injured.
Joining me on the phone right now is our Alexandra Field who is covering the story near Booming Field, Pennsylvania.
Alexandra, what are you hearing about what's going on there with the manhunt?
ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via phone): Hey Ana, we've seen a real surge in police activity over just about the last hour or so. We're seeing and hearing a number of helicopters overhead, seeing cruisers passing us by. A lot of radio activity between police officers who have been out here searching for the last week. And we now have one local government official who is confirming that those officers have gotten into a line formation to conduct their search in a very specific and targeted area.
We're not going to elaborate on any details of the area that they are looking right now, and that is to protect the officers who are involved with this investigation, with the hunt for a suspect who has eluded them for a week now. It's been a very tense week in this area. Ana, as you reported,
people were asked to shelter in place last night. We know that shots were fired. Police closed in on an area where they believe Eric Matthew Frein might be. We know there has not been an arrest at this point. But again, another surge in activity right now. The search effort has certainly ramped up here in the last couple of days. There are now 300 to 400 law enforcement officers participating.
Everyone from the U.S. marshals' office to the FBI, state police, ATF, local police, they are all trying to bring this week-long manhunt to a resolution. Obviously, the goal here, to protect all of the officers who are involved in and to finally find this suspect who is very well versed in this area. He knows the woods around here. He knows the paths around here. He has been able to elude capture for the last week. He is a known survivalist with a grudge against law enforcement, we're told, Ana.
CABRERA: Alexandra, as you mentioned, there have been a couple of surges of activity now last night and again this afternoon. But do police actually think they know where he is? Are they going as far as saying they believe they need to know exactly where to get to him?
FIELD: You know, on Thursday, that was the first time that we heard from police confirming that they believed that he was still in the area. There had been an apparent or a reported sighting on Thursday night. On Friday night we saw the activity ramp up for the first time with police indicating that they believed they knew the area that Frein was in, and that's where you saw that activity last night and heard reports of shots being fired.
So again, we are now seeing them pursue, you know, what is apparently another lead. We don't know what's prompt them to close in on the area, but they have moved toward now, we just know there has certainly been a swing in activity in the specific location, a wooded area not far from where we are at this point.
All precautions are being taken. That's why we're not going into details about their location. Police officers there taking every precaution possible, and they're trying to expeditiously apprehend the suspect. He's believed to be armed. He is believed to be dangerous. We have said repeatedly that this is someone who is described as a survivalist. We know that he has a lot of training with weaponry. He was in a rifle club in high school. He's part of a military simulation unit. So they have every reason to believe that this person is dangerous. He has clearly demonstrated that he's a deadly force against an officer. They are very much hoping they are going to finally close in on him. It's something they've been working to do for a week now, Ana.
CABRERA: Everybody's hoping that will be the outcome. Alexandra Field reporting. We know you'll stay on top of it. Thanks.
Now, the secret service is investigating how a man managed to jump a fence and actually get inside the White House. It happened last night as the first family was not inside. The president and his daughters had had just left, in fact, a few minutes earlier. The secret service now says 42-year-old Omar Gonzales ignored orders to stop. He ran to the White House, got inside before being caught. He was not armed. He's now charged with unlawful entry.
A spokesman says Gonzales was someone who was known to the secret service, but he had not been arrested previously. He's been taken to a hospital for a medical evaluation.
Today the battle against ISIS rages on, this time in northern Syria near the border with Turkey. Hundreds of Kurdish fighters from Turkey have now arrived in Syria to help fend off the onslaught from terrorists who have taken over now about 60 Kurdish villages in just the past few days.
Meanwhile, Turkey says it has opened its borders. It is now allowing about 45,000 people who are fleeing the violence into that country. Those refugees will be housed in tent camps inside Turkey.
Also developing, in just the past 24 hours, overnight ISIS released 49 hostages including diplomats who have been in captivity since being abducted at the Turkish consulate in Mosul. That happened in June as ISIS took over Iraq's second largest city including the Turkish consulate there. It's not clear yet what the conditions of the hostage release were, but the Turkish government says it was in direct contact with ISIS for some time.
So joining us now to discuss all of this is Patrick Skinner, a former CIA case officer, we have lieutenant colonel Rick Francona, CNN military analyst here with me in New York and Jamie Dettmer, an independent foreign correspondent and "Daily Beast" contributor.
Thanks, gentlemen.
Patrick, I want to start with these Turkish hostages just freed overnight. What do you make of that?
PATRICK SKINNER, FORMER CIA CASE OFFICER: Well, that's a big deal. Turkey had been very reluctant to make any overt moves against ISIS because they were, 49 of their citizens were being held. It's unclear how dramatic a change their stance against ISIS will be now that their citizens are released. It's unclear how they were released, but it's a good day for Turkey, and it's a big deal for the coalition if Turkey moves more aggressively against ISIS.
CABRERA: I know Colonel Francona, you have a different opinion about that.
LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, I wonder what the price was for the freedom of these Turkish hostages because I know the Turkish intelligence service was involved. So I'm hoping that the price was not the continued refusal of Turkey to allow the Americans and NATO or whoever else is going to be involved in the coalition to use those Turkish air bases. Those Turkish air bases would be absolutely critical to our efforts if we go into Syria.
So I hope that's not the case, and I hope Patrick is right. I hope that we're going to see more cooperation with Turkey now that these hostages are not on the table.
CABRERA: Do you think payment would have been involved?
FRANCONA: It could be. There are only a few nations that don't actually pay, us and the British among them. So it could have happened. And the Turkish intelligence service would have been involved in that as well. So we really don't know what happened.
CABRERA: Jamie, I want to bring you in to the conversation. We're hearing about the U.S. international military plan at this point, airstrikes, the plan to arm and train rebels, but we really haven't heard much about cutting off funding for ISIS. We know it's a well- funded group, one of the reasons it's become so powerful. How does the U.S. go about doing that?
JAMIE DETTMER, CONTRIBUTOR, THE DAILY BEAST: Well, one of the problems is going to be Turkey. I disagree with the colonel in that I don't think there was money involved. What I suspect was an agreement about ISIS not bombing or being violent inside Turkey.
What we've seen over the months, I've seen it with my own eyes, is the Kurdish part of the border is locked up, but the other side, the more western side, jihadists are operating reasonably freely. They've got logistical movement.
In terms of cutting off the funding, I find it a little bizarre, really. We know from Iraqi intelligence and documents that they got from an ISIS raid that only about two percent to five percent of ISIS funding is now coming from overseas from sympathizers in the gulf. This is a self-funding terror army now. It is on -- it's involved in oil smuggling. It received a lot of money when it raided central banks, reserve banks in Iraq. It's involved in extortion. I'm not too sure how we cut that. What we have to cut is their ability to move oil out and Turkey will be crucial.
CABRERA: Jamie -- or excuse me, Patrick, I want to get back to you because you were earlier in the conversation. What do you think if this does indeed give Turkey an opportunity now to say, OK, we can move forward as a united front with the U.S. and the rest of the international coalition, where is Turkey going to play a role in that being so close in proximity there to Syria?
SKINNER: Well, Turkey has, outside of Syria and Iraq, Turkey probably has the largest role to play. They've been instrumental in helping the rebels overthrow Assad. They have a vested interest in making sure Assad's gone. They've tried to play a dangerous game of moderating extremist groups. It hasn't worked.
The big thing they can do is to close their western border with their southwestern border and then probably cut down on the oil flow. ISIS makes a lot of money from oil sales. And a lot of that goes through Kurdish cutouts to Turkey. And so, they could probably, outside of -- as the colonel said, use the air bases which would be instrumental for NATO to bomb inside Syria without having to go over Syrian airspace. They could cut down on logistics and oil. CABRERA: All right. Gentlemen, thank you so much. We're going to
come back and continue the conversation about ISIS in just a moment. But we also want to talk about journalist Steven Sotloff who was one of two U.S. citizens brutally beheaded by ISIS in recent weeks.
Coming up, we will introduce you to one of the last men who saw him alive.
Also, later, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell says he is taking action against domestic violence, but is that enough? Why some are still calling for his resignation.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CABRERA: There are new details about the abduction of American journalist Steven Sotloff, the second U.S. citizen beheaded by is. A man who was kidnapped alongside Sotloff says U.S. officials never even questioned him about what happened. But our Karl Penhaul did. Yosef Abobaker was a producer or so-called fixer for Sotloff. They were kidnapped just inside Syria by gunmen in August of 2013. Sotloff never made it out alive.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
YOSEF ABOBAKER, FIXER: They hit him with the gun and say close your face. Close it, but in Arabic. I explain to him, Steve, close your eyes or they will hit you. They hit me and say to me, shut up, don't talk English.
"Do you know who is us?" I told him, I think you are ISIS. Islamic State in Iraq and Sham. He said, yes, you are in the Islamic State of Iraq and Sham. We should kill you because you are spy. You work with America with CIA and FBI. We will leave you now because you have these papers, you can go now. But if we hear you're working with journalists again, we will kill you for sure.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA: We reached out for the FBI. And while they wouldn't comment in Abubaker's claim, they did give us a statement, that recent part, the FBI is actively investigating the savage murder of Steven Sotloff. We are committed to bringing the murderers to justice.
Just an incredible story. It raises some serious questions about the U.S. response to these kinds of terrorists kidnapping. I want to bring back Jamie Dettmer, independent correspondent and Patrick Skinner, the director of special projects at the Soufan group and former CIA case officer.
Patrick, to you first. This man was with Sotloff when he was kidnapped by ISIS, but he says he was never interviewed by any U.S. official. Does this surprise you?
SKINNER: Actually, yes. This is the first I've heard of this, and it does surprise me. I'm sure that they have their reasons. Maybe they are going to talk to him now. The FBI is very committed to finding these murders. They took it very seriously. So I don't understand why they wouldn't have. It would have seemed to have been the obvious choice. They probably will now.
CABRERA: Do you think the FBI just didn't know about him?
SKINNER: It's possible. I mean, it depends on what he did right afterwards. I mean, they're going to have to ask him, you know, once they let him go, which seems very strange to let him go after accusing him of being a spy and letting him go immediately, what did he do? Did he go immediately inform people? Was there a chance for them to debrief right away? So the time line is unclear. And I'm sure that the FBI is working on it.
CABRERA: Jamie, the mother of James Foley, the other American hostage who was killed, she talked with our Anderson Cooper. She says she was embarrassed about how U.S. officials handled her son's kidnapping. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DIANE FOLEY, JAMES FOLEY'S MOTHER: Jim believed until the end that his country would come to their aid. We were, you know, asked to not go to the media, to just trust that it would be taken care of. We were told we could not raise ransom, that it was illegal. We might be prosecuted. We were just told to trust. That he would be freed somehow miraculously, and he wasn't, was he? You know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA: They are now believed to be some 20 western hostages still being held in Syria. Do you think that now we're becoming engaged there, that maybe there's going to be a change in strategy to try to bring these hostages home?
DETTMER: Well, I'm not too sure what they can do now. The hostages are spread out. We do know they tried to make a raid to get the hostages in the summer. But what I found very disturbing by Karl Penhaul's report which I thought was very significant is that he should have been, this fixer, talked to in the days and weeks immediately after Steve was kidnapped.
What strikes a lot of us in the press corps is that the media blackouts have really served to keep the pressure off the governments, the British and American governments, from doing more. Those first few days and first few weeks after kidnapped are highly important. And it may well be the FBI is determined to get the murderers now, but some of us feel that there has not been enough effort made at the beginning to try to find out what has happened to journalists.
I went to dinner the other day. I'm talking to a senior Senate staffer. I won't name her. But I was really startled at her attitude which I think in many ways reflects the Washington's interview that the journalists should be there, they have gotten themselves into trouble. So I'm very disturbed by Karl's report.
CABRERA: Jamie, I know you have spent time in Syria as a journalist. Would you go back?
DETTMER: Yes, but at the moment, it's very difficult. I was going to go back in the summer in July but was sidetracked by Ukraine. You know, the problem has been for a lot of us that it's been very difficult to really calculate the risks of going back in. The provinces, there's just not enough clarity, and ISIS is all over the place and other criminal gas. The last time I went in was in December in northeast Syria in (INAUDIBLE) where I had problems there. I mean, the Syrian army nearly captured me, and it was a Kurd who stopped that happening.
CABRERA: Jaime Dettmer and Patrick Skinner, thanks to both of you so much for that insight and what you have to share.
It is a multibillion-dollar industry, but despite rocky times for the NFL, 90 percent of Americans say they will keep watching as much as they do now. So where's the pressure to create change? That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CABRERA: So NFL commissioner Roger Goodell is saying he made mistakes in his handling of the Ray Rice abuse case. But he says he is determined to make things right. Goodell met with reporters yesterday, his first public statements in more than a week.
CNN's Nick Valencia joins me from Atlanta. Nick, Goodell promised reforms, but he didn't really offer a lot of specifics, did he?
NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No, not at all, Ana. Good afternoon.
We've entered week three of the NFL season, and this domestic violence scandal continues to be a thorn in the side of the league that seemingly will not go away. Some say that it won't go away until Roger Goodell either steps down or is removed.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VALENCIA (voice-over): Roger Goodell speaking at a Manhattan news conference amid calls for his resignation.
ROGER GOODELL, NFL COMMISSIONER: I got it wrong on a number of levels from the process that I led to the decision that I reached. But now I will get it right and do whatever is necessary to accomplish that.
VALENCIA: The embattled NFL commissioner apologizing for what he said was a mishandling of the Ray Rice domestic violence scandal. Here's a question from CNN's Rachel Nichols.
RACHEL NICHOLS, CNN ANCHOR, UNGUARDED WITH RACHEL NICHOLS: Roger, you've had pretty extreme unilateral power in deciding discipline. But as you've said a few times, you've gotten it wrong in a few cases, and that tends to happen when there's no checks and balances. How willing are you to give up some of that power? And do you think that would be the right thing for you to do? GOODELL: Well, Rachel, as I said in my statement, everything is on
the table. We're going to make sure that we look at every aspect of the process of how we gather information to make a decision, how we make that decision, and then the appeals process.
VALENCIA: Even as Goodell pledged to move ahead, questions still loom in the Rice case about who knew what when after TMZ released the now infamous inside the elevator video.
GOODELL: We asked for it on several occasions according to our security department. We asked for it on several occasions over the spring all the way through June from February through June. So I'm confident that our people did that.
VALENCIA: Two security camera videos put the Rice case squarely in the public eye, showing the former Baltimore Ravens star running back knocking out his then-fiancee with a punch last February. A source within the Ravens organization tells CNN that hours after the incident at the Atlantic City hotel and casino, the head of the Baltimore Ravens security, Darren Sanders, spoke with Atlantic City police who described in detail the elevator video to Sanders.
ESPN is reporting that Sanders then shared the information with team executives and that those executives started extensive public and private campaigns for leniency for rice according to ESPN. The Ravens issued a statement late Friday saying the espn.com outside the lines article contains numerous errors, inaccuracies, false assumptions and, perhaps, misunderstandings. The Ravens will address all of these next week in Baltimore after our trip to Cleveland for Sunday's game against the Browns. A source within the Ravens organization tells CNN the Ravens never saw the video until TMZ first released it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VALENCIA: Now, both current and past players have taken to social media to criticize the NFL commissioner. They say he's leveled severe penalties in the past against teams like the New Orleans Saints. He suspended their coach for the entire 2012 season after Bounty gate. They're asking why not the same accountability for himself -- Ana.
CABRERA: All right, Nick Valencia reporting, thanks.
Goodell says the NFL is taking action against domestic violence. And he says the league can help make changes in society beyond the behavior of its football players. Let's talk about the NFL and domestic violence more with two of our regulars, CNN commentators and avid sports fans Mark Lamont Hill and Ben Ferguson. Hey, guys.
Marc, let's start with you. Roger Goodell, he pledged to get it right when it comes to domestic violence, and he had a few ideas, maybe implementing a conduct committee, more education for players and staff when it comes to domestic violence, providing more resources that he pledged to domestic violence and sexual assault groups, but he didn't really lay out a concrete and complete plan to really reform the league. Did he? MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, Ana, he didn't lay
it out for very good reason. He doesn't have one. He's just saying whatever he has to do to do to save face to save the league and to save his job. And that's why this is so frustrating. When I heard he had a 3:00 p.m. news conference announced, I thought he was either going to step down or have some mind-blowing comprehensive plan. Neither thing happened. And it's very disappointing, but it speaks to what others have said which is that the NFL just isn't committed at a fundamental level to dealing with these issues.
CABRERA: Ben, did Goodell help himself with the league yesterday?
BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No. I mean, there is just quite possibly one of the worst press conferences I've ever seen to deal with a scandal. I mean, it was about as bad as what is the meaning of I.S. is, you know? I mean, he was sitting there going we're going to come out and we are going to have a serious press conference and we're going to give you nothing new at all.
It was a dog-and-pony show. There was nothing that was actually reformed. If you're a player in the NFL and you hit people and you abuse people, this was the greatest press conference you've ever seen because Roger Goodell ultimately -- and I think this is something that people need to realize -- he's nothing but a puppet. He has 30 owners, and ultimately the owners are the people I think we need to start focusing on. They've had a boy's club mentality. You let my bad players get in trouble and keep playing, and then when your bad player gets in trouble, I'll look the other way and you can keep him as well. That's what this boils down to.
The owners are going to fix it. They could fix it. Roger Goodell works for them. No one else can fire them, and the owners seem to have a consensus. Your bad player play and mine play.
CABRERA: What should he have said?
FERGUSON: Well, multiple things. One, he should start suspending players in the past who have been in trouble and had a very strict new code of conduct. That is not there. He should have also said that I've lost faith, and I'm going to, you know, whatever it may be, step down or bring in new leadership?
No one's been fired over this. No one's lost their job. Even the security team, they're obviously terrible at the NFL or they helped cover this up because they didn't get the video or they could have gotten or someone lied and no one's lost their job. CABRERA: Go ahead, Marc.
HILL: I was going to say, the NFL has a culture of cover-ups from performance enhancements to violence.
FERGUSON: Amen.
HILL: -- to other crime over the last few decades. I don't just mean now. I mean over decades. And so, this is nothing new. And while I think Roger Goodell stepping down would have been a good and positive move, the truth is, it doesn't matter. As Ben pointed out, Roger Goodell is the figurehead of 30 owners. And if Roger Goodell --
FERGUSON: Puppet.
HILL: -- steps, another one who they appoint is going to pop up and do the exact same thing. It's a cultural problem with the NFL. It is not a Roger Goodell problem. He should step down because it's the right thing to do. But we need a deeper way of addressing this fundamental issue in the NFL. And that's what's so frustrating to me.
The other thing is I was so glad that a CNN reporter had the courage to say wait a minute, Roger, you've been making unilateral decisions, and you keep stinking at making unilateral decisions where you have more people. He said nothing's off the table, but he should have led with that. He should have said I am no longer cable of doing this unilaterally. That's what all of these leagues should do.
CABRERA: I know you want to get back in there, Ben. We've got to take a quick break so sit tight for just a moment.
And on that note, sit tight because we're going to talk more about the NFL after a quick break even though fans aren't going anywhere, advertisers are. How the NFL could still see more repercussions from several domestic violence incidents. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CABRERA: So NFL commissioner Roger Goodell is promising to get the NFL's house in order after the league's bumbling response to days of bad publicity over player arrests related to domestic violence, even child abuse.
So let's continue the conversation. CNN commentators and sports fans Marc Lamont Hill and Ben Ferguson are back.
OK, guys, Roger Goodell insisted yesterday he does not believe anyone in his office ever saw that second Ray Rice video, you know the one inside the elevator that actually shows rice striking his fiancee. He said they didn't see it until that video went public. Do you believe him, Marc?
HILL: I do not believe that. I think at best, its plausible deniability, right? At best he said, look. There's a tape and I don't want to look at it so I can say I never saw it, right? That's best-case scenario. But there are too many leaks, there are too many rumors, there is too much buzz and quite frankly, the NFL is too powerful to not have access to a tape if it wanted access to a tape. There is a kid right now in eighth grade who is a running back for his local middle school who they have tapes on and information on.
CABRERA: They've got hours of tapes on.
HILL: Exactly. They've got hours of tapes on the kid. You're telling me they can't get a tape from a police department to which they're actually entitled? I don't buy it and it insults my intelligence that makes me more Roger Goodell going even for it. FERGUSON: I disagree with you and here's why. I think Roger Goodell
probably got the tape. I think it's probably buried in bits and pieces and under the end zones of multiple teams in the NFL. I mean, I promise you he didn't see that tape, but having the tape, it was probably destroyed in an NFL manner and they put it in the end zone and they said no one will ever find it again because at least we know that building is secure.
CABRERA: Clearly, guys.
FERGUSON: I don't buy it for a second that they didn't have the tape.
HILL: I'm with you, Ben.
CABRERA: But clearly guys --
(CROSSTALK)
CABRERA: Yet America's love for pro football doesn't seem threatened by these recent controversies. In fact, almost 90 percent of people in a new NBC/Marist University poll, they say they haven't cut back on how much they watch the NFL. Only 11 percent said they're less likely to watch. So I mean, what do you do to pressure to change?
FERGUSON: Well, it's the team owners. I mean, look at Ben Roethlisberger as a great example. When Ben Roethlisberger got in trouble multiple times and he was able to brush it under the rug, people kept showing up to those games and watching him play. And I think that's what you see with the owners here and with Roger Goodell.
At the end of the day, most people really just care about winning. And they believe, I think, that most of their fans only care about winning. And that's why Ray Rice, Ben Roethlisberger or Adrian Peterson still get a chance to play even if they screw up because they really just think the fans don't care, and that study shows you the fans still are going to watch the game.
CABRERA: So Marc, what is going to make a difference? I mean, will it be the advertisers who are going to have to pull their support? Is that what it's going to take?
HILL: Ultimately, it comes down to the people. It always does, right? I mean, the advertisers don't have feelings. They have interests. The NFL clearly has demonstrated it doesn't have any feelings. It only has interests. So what we have to do is make our feelings converge with their interests. In other words, if I go to the local advertiser or the national advertiser and say this is disgusting, this is deplorable, they pull advertising. The NFL doesn't want to lose money so they pull players. This is the only way this is going to go. It will never happen simply because the NFL does what's right or because advertisers do what's right. So there's hope here but it comes from us, it comes from our hands.
FERGUSON: And I think some of the advertisers are a little bit cowardly here. I mean, it was a no-brainer PR wise to come out and condemn the NFL, but how many of them on a national level pulled their ads? And the answer is zero on the national level. And it's because they knew they were in a perfect situation. Condemn them, but our ads are going to run on Sunday, which is about as lame as Roger Goodell giving a two-game suspension to Ray Rice.
CABRERA: Gentlemen, last question, and I need just one-word answers. Do you think Roger Goodell is going to survive this, and should he? Ben?
FERGUSON: Yes, I think he will because the owners want the bad players to play so they can win. And that's his only boss is the owners.
CABRERA: And what about you, Marc?
HILL: I'm going to teach Ben what one word means. Yes, he'll survive. No, he shouldn't.
CABRERA: All right. Thanks, guys. I appreciate it. Good to talk with you both.
Congress has given President Obama the green light by all means in the fight against ISIS. But not every member is on board. In fact, there was bipartisan opposition to the plan to arm Syrian rebels. Has the president made a strong enough case for arming those rebels? That's coming up.
But first, I want you to meet Rabbi Elmelech Goldberg. He is this week's "CNN hero," a man using his black belt in martial arts to empower thousands of sick children.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: I really hate when it hurts. It's a really sharp pain. I get all teary. The shots really scared me a lot, and they still scare me now.
RABBI ELMELECH GOLDBERG, CNN HERO: When children get a diagnosis like cancer or any major disease, they lose any sense of feeling that they're controlling their lives. They're prodded and poked and touched, and they're often so afraid.
Our daughter Sara Basia (ph) was diagnosed with leukemia. She was such an incredible little soul who taught me about the power that's inside of ourselves. Are you ready?
CHILDREN: Yes!
GOLDBERG: OK. Begin.
After our daughter passed away, I started a program that provides classes to children who are sick to teach them martial arts to make them feel powerful.
Every single type of martial arts uses the breath to take control.
I'm a black belt in tae kwon do. Hold it and then release.
We use the martial arts as a platform for meditation, for relaxation, to allow children to gain these tools.
You're totally in control.
To really face down so much of the fear, the anger that accompanies pain.
Breathe in.
And you can see that light on their face. I feel like their souls are shining.
Hey, you did it!
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD: I do have the power to make the pain go away. And nothing's impossible. Nothing.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CABRERA: President Obama has signed that legislation into law authorizing the U.S. military to begin training the more moderate Syrian rebels who are taking on ISIS fighters in Syria. Now, the bill passed the Senate Thursday after it passed the house Wednesday, but it was an interesting vote. It seemed to scramble all the usual Washington fault lines with president's allies and opponents and would-be presidential candidates lining up in sometimes surprising ways.
For example, Republican Senate leader frequent Obama critic Mitch McConnell, he voted for it. Then again, liberal Democrat and trusted Obama ally Elizabeth Warren, she voted against it. In the House, Democratic Tammy Duckworth opposed it, an Iraq war veteran who sits on the armed services committee. Now, she told our Kate Bolduan she's not convinced the Syrian rebels are worthy of U.S. support.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. TAMMY DUCKWORTH (D), ILLINOIS: I can't trust the Syrian rebels, Kate. We don't know who they are. I'm not comfortable with the vetting process, and I don't know how long this commitment is. The vote on Wednesday was really just for a 12-week bill that would allow us to fund $500 million for 12 weeks. And I just feel like this commitment is far longer term and deserved more of a debate than this initial short-term debate that we had.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CABRERA: CNN commentators Marc Lamont Hill and Ben Ferguson are back.
Ben, is Congresswoman Duckworth correct, should we be worried that these moderate Syrian rebels might not be so moderate and maybe the U.S. is being too short-sighted?
FERGUSON: Absolutely, yes. I mean, six, seven years ago I would have thought this was probably just an idea. But I think we have to learn from our mistakes. And the definition of moderate in Syria right now is, well, a very awkward word to use at all. You could say that al Qaeda is moderate compared to ISIS, but that doesn't mean we support al Qaeda. And these rebels in April pledged allegiance to al Qaeda. They did it openly, and they did recruiting around it, and they asked for al Qaeda fighters to come and join them in April. And some of them did.
So I don't think this is a good idea. And I think the commitment is far too short term. And I think it was a PR move by many that voted in favor of it. And ultimately, we don't know who they are, and I don't think we can trust them with our weapons or our support or training that they're not going to use against us in a couple years.
CABRERA: Marc, has the president made a strong enough case for arming the Syrian rebels?
HILL: I think he's made a strong case for arming Syrian rebels in general. I do agree that the question of who and what is moderate is very different. I disagree with Ben that al Qaeda would be marked as moderate even in relation to ISIS. I think they're extremists by any measure.
FERGUSON: I agree, but some people have said they're moderate.
HILL: But more to the point -- let me finish, Ben. But more to the point, though, I think the question becomes what do we do? I think at some point we have to engage regional forces in Iraq and in Syria. We need to vet these moderates more. We need to figure out exactly who they are. We need to figure out exactly who we don't want to engage because as we've learned from everything from Russia, Afghanistan, through Syria, through Iran, through Iraq and so forth is that oftentimes the people we empower, train and arm are people who become our biggest enemy's years later. So we absolutely want to be careful about this.
But at the moment, what we can do are several things. One, we can investigate and dismantle the relationship between certain nation states and ISIS like Qatar, like private Saudi funding. Not public but private Saudi funding. We can also begin to figure out who we want to arm, who's helpful in Iraq. We have a much clearer case. People like the Peshmerga forces, et cetera, have been very helpful in the north. Absolutely, we need to do more vetting of these moderate forces in Syria.
CABRERA: Let's talk a little bit about the administration's messaging. Last week there seemed to be a messaging problem over is this war, or isn't it war? This week it's been about boots on the ground. We've heard the president repeatedly say no combat boots on the ground. But then just this week, vice president Biden told a reporter on Wednesday, in fact, that the need for troops on the ground would be based on, quote, "how the effort goes in Iraq."
So Ben, why can't the White House team get on the same page?
FERGUSON: I have absolutely no idea. And I think it's dumbfounding for many Democrats, Republicans and especially many of the generals that have been disagreeing with this president. And I think a lot of it comes down to the fact President Obama never, ever wanted to go into another country, especially Syria. And his foreign policy is aid and support but don't get really involved outside of that.
And I think this pipe dream foreign policy that we can somehow fight ISIS without us directly having boots on the ground is unrealistic. At it has put us in the corner, even when he addressed the nation. He made it -- he said let me make this very clear, no boots on the ground. Well, I don't think that is the reality. And I think most people around him are saying that to him. Hey, you're not going to be able to win this unless American troops are really involved. And for some reason he is obsessed with being the non-war president, and I don't think it's going to work.
CABRERA: Marc, you're shaking your head.
HILL: Because Ben said, like, five things I disagree with. Well the first thing, I'm baffled by this. A week ago Ben was saying you never say -- you never take any military options off the table. If you say you're not going to put boots on the ground, you let the enemy know. Now they're saying well, you know what, nothing is off the table and now people still aren't happy.
FERGUSON: Obama's not saying that. People around him are saying that.
HILL: Well, I'm pretty sure Joe Biden gets orders from President Obama. I think that doesn't take a huge leap of faith.
FERGUSON: I don't know.
HILL: Generals, they've all said very clearly and unequivocally no options off the table. Do I have a critique of the president, from a strategic perspective and a public relations perspective? Absolutely. I mean, I can see to their point weeks ago. But there's absolutely nothing wrong with them saying no military option is off the table if you're thinking about engaging another enemy.
CABRERA: All right, we've got to leave it at that, gentlemen. Sorry to cut you off. Not my intention. Thank you. Thank you both.
Coming up, we want to return to our top story, and the fight against ISIS. There is now new video featuring someone who speaks English in a North American accent. U.S. officials are looking into this. And new details that are coming out, right after this.
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CABRERA: We have this just in, an important new development in the fight against ISIS. Investigators are now looking into a man seen briefly on an ISIS propaganda video. U.S. intelligence officials are taking a particular interest in this one, because the man sounds like he's from North America. Listen.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we're here with the soldiers of Bashed (ph). And you can see them now digging their own graves in the very place where they were stationed. They said that we abandoned the front, and stop fighting (INAUDIBLE), they turned our guns toward the Muslims. They lied. We are the harshest words that will come. And the flames of war are only beginning to intensify.
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CABRERA: He goes on to shoot those men in this video.
Now, justice correspondent Pamela Brown is joining me on the phone. Pamela, what are you learning about the investigation into that man seen on that video?
PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (via phone): Well, Ana, after scrutinizing the new 55-minute video put out by ISIS extremist that you just showed, U.S. intelligence officials are now exploring the possibility that the individual that we just heard there, speaking seemingly perfect English could be an American, given how well he speaks the language.
Now, officials have not yet been able to identify the man. We're told, but they are doing voice analysis and comparing what they find to other individuals they've been watching, other individuals they believe who have joined the fight, or who have returned. And it's believed that at this point, U.S. officials say about a dozen Americans are fighting with ISIS.
So officials, as we speak, are poring over this video. Preliminary -- it's a preliminary review. They're looking at any facial recognition. The voice analysis, as I mentioned, trying to piece together who this individual could be. Officials I've been speaking with say that his appearance in this video is especially significant, because he comes across, they say, as articulate and persuasive, a person of influence within the militant group. And of course, this is adding to their concern that this could be the first time we're seeing an individual who's possibly American, in a position of authority, inside the ISIS hierarchy.
Now again, this is very early on. This is ongoing analysis. Officials are looking at every scenario, whether this individual could be an Arab who studied in North America, or whether he's from Canada. But at this point they are exploring the possibility that he could be American, and this is very concerning to officials -- Ana.
CABRERA: Definitely disturbing. Pamela Brown, thank you.
Coming up at the top of the hour, the hunt for a cop killer why police say they are closing in when we come back.
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