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ISIS Terror Plot Thwarted in Australia; House Approves Aid to Syrian Rebels; Interview with Tony Blinken, Deputy National Security Advisor

Aired September 18, 2014 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Those that think they may be operating in dark corners, we will hunt you down.

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CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking overnight: a terror plot in Australia thwarted. ISIS sympathizers allegedly planning to kidnap and behead a random member of the public. This as the White House battles criticism from within their own party, that the plan to take on ISIS won't work.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Out of bounds. Yet another star football player arrested for domestic violence. We have new details on what he's alleged to have done and how the league is handling this growing problem.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Chilling new details into the life of a cop killer on the run in Pennsylvania. Police say he would role play as a Cold War era soldier. And now, he's taking on the role for real. The concern is, will he strike again?

CUOMO: Your NEW DAY continues right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Chris Cuomo, Kate Bolduan, and Michaela Pereira.

BOLDUAN: Welcome, once again, to NEW DAY, everyone. It's Thursday, September 18th, 8:00 in the East now.

And we're looking at the breaking news coming out of Australia. A chilling terror plot foiled. According to intelligence officials, supporters of ISIS planned to behead a random person in public as some sort of demonstration killing. It is a gruesome reminder of just how far ISIS and its sympathizers are willing to go.

CUOMO: So, that takes us to the question of what are you going to do about them? In Washington, the House approves President Obama's plan to arm and train moderate rebels to fight ISIS in Syria.

But take a look at the vote: 85 Democrats, obviously the president's own party turned and voted no, more than the Republicans, who voted no. So, why? They say they don't trust the rebels. We don't know who the moderates are and therefore this plan may not work.

We're going to talk live to a key member of the president's national security team in just a moment. Stick with us for that.

But, first, let's get to our senior international correspondent Ivan Watson with what's going on in Australia.

What do we know, Ivan?

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Chris.

Raids by Australian police in the biggest city in Australia, Sydney, before dawn and they've been destroyed by the Australian police as the biggest counter-terror operation in Australia, in Australian history. There were dozens of arrest warrants, more than 800 police officers involved and they rounded up at least 15 suspects that they say were plotting to basically attack some innocent civilian, Australian media have gone one step further saying that the plot was to cut the head off, to behead the victim, film the act and then drape the body with that black flag of the ISIS militant group.

Now, of the people who were detained, one has been charged with already with terrorism charges, and he's been denied bail. Nine of the other suspects have been released thus far. Two of these 15 suspects, Chris, were women. And we'll probably learn more about this alleged plot in the days ahead.

The Australian prime minister has warned that he thinks there are about 60 Australian nationals who are fighting alongside ISIS and other militant groups in the Middle East. The Australians are worried that these Australian jihadists could come back home and commit acts of terrorism. They also say they've intercepted communications from a senior Australian national in ISIS to supporters back in Australia, urging them to carry out what he described as demonstration killings.

The Australians have been quick to join President Obama's campaign against ISIS. They say they'll send war planes, fighter jets and advisers to Iraq as well -- Chris.

CUOMO: They, too, are yielding on the issue of boots on the ground for now. But, Ivan, thank you very much for laying out the evolving nature of the threat.

Question again is, what will you do about it?

Well, today, the Senate is expected to follow the House's lead and approve training and weapons for Syrian rebels to use obviously in the fight against ISIS. But some aren't convinced that arming rebels is a good idea. Let's understand why it should be a good idea from one of the people putting together the plan for the White House, Mr. Tony Blinken, deputy national security adviser for the Obama administration.

Tony, thank you for taking the opportunity.

TONY BLINKEN, DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: Thanks, Chris.

CUOMO: So, make the case. Why is arming the Free Syrian Army to the extent it is an army the best way to fight ISIS?

BLINKEN: Chris, you need some force on the ground to be able to take the territory that gets freed up through the use of airpower over time. And we can put airpower to this with the coalition. We can set ISIL back.

But in order to take some of the ground that's been liberated, you need a force on the ground, it has to be local forces, it has to be the Syrians fighting for their own country. That's the best way to do it, the most effective way to do it, the most sustainable way to do it.

CUOMO: Is it true that this particular group that's being called an army really isn't, it's somewhat in a shambles. It's getting beaten up by Assad. It doesn't really want to fight against ISIS, and it basically means you're starting at ground zero training up a force?

BLINKEN: Chris, we've been working with many of the opposition groups for the last two and a half years. We have much better knowledge of who they are, and what they're willing to do.

These are people who want to fight. They want to fight for their families. They want to fight for their communities. They want to fight for their towns but they need help. They need to be trained, they need to be equipped and they need support from us and other countries.

If they have that, we believe that they will fight.

CUOMO: We have a problem with defining the "they," right, Tony? You have Senator Collins and a lot of other politicians and I know you guys are discussing it in house, who are the moderates? How do you arm the right people? How do you wind up not having weapons you give them in the training turned and used against you?

BLINKEN: These are critical questions. One of the things we've done over the last two and a half years is build up this knowledge base, build up these relationships. And now with the Saudis and other countries in the region coming in, joining in the training, they, too, have tremendous knowledge, they know who these people are, they can help identify them, they can help vet them. We can make sure that the right people are getting the training and the right people are getting the weapons.

CUOMO: Susan Collins says she doesn't pick up the same confidence you're showing now in the administration's ability to vet the moderates and make sure you're giving it to the right people. Is that a communication gap or does she have it wrong?

BLINKEN: Look, it's very understandable that people are skeptical about this. The president was reticent initially some years ago when it was proposed that we get in whole hog and do this. We wanted to make sure that we built up an understanding of who we were dealing with.

Now, two and a half years later we have a much greater understanding, but we've also been very clear with Congress, this is not a silver bullet. It's an essential part of what needs to happen but it's not a magic solution. It's going to take time. It's going to take effort.

But we believe that with the right support, these are motivated people who want to fight for their towns, they want to fight for their families.

CUOMO: How do we avoid, how does the U.S. avoid getting sucked into fighting this fight when the rest of the region doesn't step up, because right now, you're not seeing the big players with the big armies stepping up?

BLINKEN: Chris, a couple of things. First, we have more than 40 countries who said they want to be part of this coalition. Across all these different lines of effort -- in the air, working to support to train and equip, dealing with the financing, dealing with the flow of foreign fighters, et cetera. It's a process. Countries say they're signing up and then we develop the requirements for what the campaign needs to look like, and over time, we match these countries to different requirements and different tasks.

If you look at the first Gulf War that's exactly what happened when the first President Bush and his administration did a great job building a coalition, but it took weeks and in some cases months move countries from joining the coalition to actually taking specific responsibilities.

CUOMO: Tony, it also took a really sizeable U.S. force to go in there and clean house in the first Gulf War.

BLINKEN: Yes.

CUOMO: I mean, that was the deciding factor, is that you had the best fighting men and women in the world wearing U.S. uniforms on the ground doing what needed to be done. Now you know the polls show that people don't want that, you guys are playing to the polls, so everybody down there in D.C., so how do you avoid the situation as happened in the past?

BLINKEN: Chris, we're not playing the polls. We're playing to the experience of the last decade. We found it was not the most effective way to go to send in hundreds of thousands of American ground troops get them bogged down for a decade and try to deal with the problem that way.

What's more effective is making sure local people are fighting for their own countries. If they take the responsibility to do that, our commitment is to help them, to support them, to give them the training, to give them the equipment, to give them the air power, to give them the advisers -- that's what we can do, that's how we can be most effective. CUOMO: I think that you're going to get a big amen on that from the

American people, but the problem is it's not happening. You got the Saudis. They have a real big fighting force. They should be worried about is.

They're saying, we'll help train but we're not going to fight. The Turks, they've got a lot of their people taken hostage by ISIS. They are in direct line of threat. They don't want to put people out there fighting.

What is going on here? Why aren't they fighting their own fight?

BLINKEN: Chris, let's take this one step at a time. First, let's look at what's happened in Iraq.

Using air power in coordination with Iraqi forces and the Kurdish Peshmerga forces, we've turned back ISIL in a number of places and it changed the dynamic on the ground. That's proven to be very effective.

Now, we have a lot of work to do to rebuild up the Iraqi security forces to get them coordinated. But we have a new government and partner in place to do that.

In Syria, it's tougher, it's longer, it's going to take time to build the Syrian opposition, but we believe it can be done. That's what we're focused on doing. And these countries you'll see the secretary of state is going to be hosting a big meeting of the coalition partners over the coming weeks, you will see not only the countries signing on but taking on specific responsibilities, including for example using their air power.

CUOMO: The idea of how this will happen going forward, it's going to take a long time. It's pretty arguable that Congress should get involved and be giving an approval of power. I know that frustrates things because of the dynamic in D.C. But it seems to fit squarely in their responsibility especially because, Tony, and here's the question, right now one of the big criticisms you didn't leave a force in Iraq, you didn't leave a force in Afghanistan the way you needed to.

Are you rethinking that now as policy? Will you keep advisers on the ground in these hot areas for the foreseeable future?

BLINKEN: Chris, first, if you go back and look at what happened in Iraq, the Bush administration signed an agreement to get our forces out in 2012 at the very beginning of 2012. That was the deal with the Iraqis. We said to the Iraqis, we'd like to leave some folks behind to help you on counterterrorism. They would not stand up in their parliament and say, we want the Americans to stay. It was all about the politics. At that point, after 10 years, they didn't want Americans.

As soon as our forces came out in early 2012, we began to try and work with the Iraqis to build back up their counterterrorism capability. We offered them advisers, we offered them military assistance. At first they didn't want it. 2013, ISIL rears its head, all of a sudden, they want it.

So, for the last year or more, we've been working to rebuild that Iraqi capacity. Unfortunately, the ISIL problem outran what we were able to do. But now, with the new Iraqi government, remodeling the army with a partner there and with our commitment, we believe we can get ahead of this.

So, the answer is not to repeat the last decade. It is not to send 150,000 American troops. It is not to spend trillions of dollars. It is to empower local forces to fight for their own countries. We believe that we'll have partners to do.

CUOMO: And that's the key, we've got to see those partners step up. Tony, thank you very much for taking on the questions and appreciate the opportunity.

BLINKEN: Thanks. Thanks for having me, Chris.

CUOMO: Pleasure. Look forward to seeing you again.

Kate?

BOLDUAN: Another big story we're watching, if you thought it could not get worse for the NFL, unfortunately it seems it has, another star player, arrested on domestic violence charges.

Police showing up -- you see there, at an Arizona Cardinals practice escorting running back Jonathan Dwyer off the field. All of this happening just after the Minnesota Vikings banned Adrian Peterson from all team activities until his child abuse case is decided. Also banned the Carolina panthers star lineman Greg Hardy who is appealing a domestic violence conviction for his part.

Nischelle Turner is here with all of the very latest.

NISCHELLE TURNER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: It's like you have to take a breath after saying all of that.

BOLDUAN: There was a lot of them.

TURNER: It's a laundry list. Greg Hardy said he was going to take this time to focus on his family. Adrian Peterson essentially saying the same thing. Both men say they are eager to get back on the field apparently, so is Ray Rice, and his appeal. But, now, another player arrested for domestic violence and this time taken off the field immediately.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's Dwyer, he's in.

TURNER (voice-over): This morning, Jonathan Dwyer, a running back for the Arizona Cardinals, now in custody.

REPORTER: Are you sorry this happened? TURNER: The football star is the sixth NFL player making headlines

for alleged abuse in the past few days. Dwyer arrested at the Cardinals training facility yesterday and making his first court appearance overnight. This all stemming from a slew of alleged abuse beginning in late July, including one count of aggravated assault against a 27-year-old female, causing a fracture, and another involving his 18-month-old child.

SGT. TRENT CRUMP, PHOENIX POLICE: He has been interviewed by our detectives. He has admitted involvement in the incidents. However, has denied allegations of physical assault.

TURNER: Police say during one incident, he threw a shoe at the 18- month-old, then tossed the cell phone of the female victim out a window, preventing her from calling police. The Cardinals say they have taken the immediate step to deactivate Jonathan from all team activities.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jonathan Dwyer who had the touchdown.

TURNER: Half a dozen NFL players across the country are now facing domestic violence charges.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's no rule book for this guys.

TURNER: Wednesday, Carolina Panthers defensive end Greg Hardy took a voluntary paid leave of absence after being convicted for domestic violence. In May, authorities say Hardy choked his then girlfriend, dragged her by her hair into a tub and threatened to kill her. The Panthers star has asked for a new trial.

ZYGI WILF, MINNESOTA VIKINGS OWNER: We made a mistake. And we needed to get this right.

TURNER: The Minnesota Vikings deactivating running back Adrian Peterson, facing a child abuse charge, retracting from an earlier decision to keep him in the game after sponsors voiced their outrage. Many of Peterson's teammates say he should stay on the field.

CAPTAIN MUNNERLYN, MINNESOTA VIKINGS CORNERBACK: Growing up, that was nothing, man, my mom, she always whipped me up or and things like that, man. Just -- you know, in my culture, that's how I was raised, man, and that's how my mom, she raised her kids, like I said, man, look at me now. You know, I'm in the NFL.

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TURNER: This seems to be the argument we have continuously heard from a number of players about the Adrian Peterson case. We did hear from some of his teammates yesterday who either were hesitant to talk or did back Adrian fully. I asked some former and current players, why it was so hard for people to take a stand, people in the NFL. They said it's a hard thing to talk about and no one wants to look like they're turning on their teammate.

BOLDUAN: It does put them maybe in an uncomfortable position. TURNER: Yes.

BOLDUAN: This is an uncomfortable issue.

TURNER: Every press conference, every interview about this that we've seen and done has just been awkward, because no one wants to tackle this subject although it's a subject that needs to be tackled.

BOLDUAN: And the NFL needs to get it right how they're handling all of this.

CUOMO: Right and the one fair defense of the NFL is it's a little odd to be starting to look at this situation as like the flashpoint of domestic violence and the flashpoint of how our culture of how we raise kids.

You know, the NFL is not the focus of the problem. This is society.

TURNER: We haven't talked a bit about the season on the field. They hate this.

PEREIRA: We haven't talked about a score, a game, a run, nothing.

TURNER: Nothing.

CUOMO: I mean, is this really the place to fight the fight is the NFL?

BOLDUAN: I agree. But this is the NFL's fault. They needed to get their policy right.

TURNER: And sports is a great unifier, and sometimes gives us the platform to talk about bigger social issues.

PEREIRA: And we need to talk about it clearly.

BOLDUAN: Thanks, Nischelle.

TURNER: Thanks.

PEREIRA: All right. Should we look at headlines? And we'll talk about that.

CUOMO: Please.

PEREIRA: History being made in Scotland right now, millions of voters going to the polls to decide whether their nation should break off from the United Kingdom after 307 years. Polls show that the contest is just too close to call at this point -- the future of Scotland's oil, their currency, their flag and their relations with the U.S. all of that hangs in the balance. We should know the results Friday morning.

Ebola patients in West Africa apparently buying blood from people who have survived the virus. The World Health Organization reports there is an illegal trade in the blood thought to have antibodies to fight the disease. An American Dr. Rick Sacra is being treated in a Nebraska hospital with blood donated from Dr. Kent Brantly who recovered from the virus last month. More than 2,400 people have died in the Ebola outbreak.

A doctor known for her celebrity patients was reportedly with Joan Rivers when the comedian went into cardiac arrest. "The Daily Mail" reports Dr. Gwen Korovin did not have privileges to be in the room where Rivers was being examined. Sources tell CNN an attempted biopsy on Rivers' vocal chords caused swelling that cut off oxygen to her lungs, she went into cardiac arrest. Rivers died days later.

How about this, a lucky spin for a middle school math teacher from Maryland on "The Wheel of Fortune." This is Sarah Manchester solving the final puzzle, loud laughter, she let out a loud scream when she found out she was taking home $1 million.

What was really hard is she had to keep it secret for months. The show was taped in May, finally aired last night. She is the third million-dollar winner on "Wheel", says most of the money will go to those kids there, their college tuition and various charities. There's a smooch.

BOLDUAN: A good way to start. Considering how expensive college education is these day it's a good place for money.

PEREIRA: She apparently, they watched together as a family and they even play for cash prices. It was kind of awesome. It was during teachers weeks, so it's nice to see one of our teachers, we love our teachers, getting much needed funds.

BOLDUAN: That's right.

CUOMO: Right person being rewarded.

PEREIRA: Absolutely.

CUOMO: Nice.

All right, so the news for you this morning, the latest on the manhunt for the alleged killer of two Pennsylvania state troopers, it's still ongoing, hence a change in tone here, look at the picture, this is the man and there are new details emerging about this suspect, his name Eric Matthew Frein.

We'll be live at the scene of the search with new information for you when we come back.

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BOLDUAN: New details are emerging about the prime suspect in last week's ambush of, on state troopers in Pennsylvania. Officials are now saying Eric Matthew Frein was active in a military simulation unit, he re-enacted Cold War era conflicts and is believed he assumed his simulation role in real life. Police are also worried the alleged shooter may target more officers while he is still on the run. Rosa Flores is live for us in Pennsylvania with the very latest on

this search for Frein. I mean, he's really terrorizing, probably paralyzing the town, Rosa.

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Kate.

You know, hundreds of tips have come in from around the country. The command center was actually moved to a bigger building to accommodate all of the law enforcement, we're talking about FBI, ATF, search teams as well, and now they're dealing with new clues, new details in a bizarre twist in the search for this wanted man.

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LT. COL. GEORGE BIVENS, DEPUTY COMMISSIONER OF OPERATIONS: The suspect is still considered armed and dangerous.

FLORES (voice-over): New details are emerging as the manhunt continues for Eric Matthew Frein, the suspected cop killer on the run in rural Pennsylvania. Police are painting a picture of Frein as a self-trained survivalist who harbors a longstanding hatred towards law enforcement. Authorities say Frein belongs to a military simulation group where members assume the role of cold war era soldiers from eastern European countries.

BIVENS: In his current frame of mind, Frein appears to have assumed that role in real life.

FLORES: Investigators say Frein on the run since Friday night recently changed his hairstyle in preparation for the shootings of Corporal Bryon Dickson and trooper Alex Douglass. He now wears it shaved on both sides and long on top, wider than a Mohawk.

BIVENS: In the event you are listening to this broadcast on a portable radio while cowering in a cool, damp hiding place. I want you to know one thing -- Eric, we are coming for you.

FLORES: Hundreds of officers joined the search. Frein's family told investigators two guns are missing from the home, including an AK-47.

JOE PETERS, FORMER PENNSYLVANIA LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL: We have a suspect in this case who is anti-government. He is a hunter. He is a woodsman, and he is alleged to be a survivalist. That is a deadly cocktail.

FLORES: Local schools are closed and Frein's face is on flyers all over town as a community lives in fear.

NANCY LITTLE, RESIDENT: Especially closing the store, I make sure that I have my weapon with me. Now, I'm a little more -- I have it on a little more often.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People are uneasy. They want to know are my kids going to be safe.

(END VIDEOTAPE) FLORES: You know, hearts are heavy in this community this morning. Corporal Bryon Dickson will be laid to rest later this morning and many are expected to attend not only from this community but from other communities as well and Kate, I should let you know this community is also doing something special in their homes to honor and remember this state trooper, they are adding blue light bulbs, whether it be inside their homes or outside their houses, just to show solidarity -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Yes, important to honor that officer, but also then the town still living in fear of what exactly is going on, where that man is lurking, that suspect is.

Rosa Flores in Pennsylvania for us -- Rosa, thank you so much.

CUOMO: All right, so what's happening in the plan to fight is? The House voted. They voted to approve the president's plan. Now it comes to the Senate. The plan is arm and train moderate Syrian rebels. Lot of lawmakers, however, believe that could be a slippery slope. Do they have a point? Experts weigh in for you ahead.

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