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House Passes Resolution Authorizing Use of Force Against ISIS; Interview with Senator Susan Collins; How Effective is Obama's Plan?

Aired September 18, 2014 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And now the Australian government warning that there could be dozens of Australian citizens fighting alongside ISIS and other militant groups and that they've intercepted communications from ISIS members to sympathizers back in Australia to basically carry out these attacks. So the Australians say they have ratcheted up the threat level to high. That is also another first in Australian history. Chris?

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Ivan, thank you very much. At least they were able to thwart it. The question is what happens going forward. Now what's going forward in the U.S. is that today the Senate is expected to follow the House's lead and approve the president's plan to arm and train moderate Syrian rebels. I say that slowly because it is a term that is confusing many people here as we get to CNN's Erin McPike down in D.C. Moderate Syrian rebels, do they exist? Are they talking about the Free Syrian Army? We don't really know at this point, do we, Erin?

ERIN MCPIKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Chris, that's right. And to that end, the president met with 20 high-level members of his national security team yesterday afternoon and they refined the strategy to deal with the threat of foreign terrorists and everything that goes with it, as you mentioned.

That House vote yesterday was a small but symbolic victory for the White House, and the same outcome is expected later today in the Senate, as you mentioned. But still questions are piling up on both sides of the aisle showing growing doubt that this national security strategy can even be effective.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MCPIKE: President Obama commending members of Congress.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The amendment is adopted.

MCPIKE: For approving one piece of his strategy in the war against is.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I want to start off by saying thank you to House members, Republican and Democrat, who came together today to pass an important component on our strategy for dealing with this terrible terrorist organization known as ISIL.

MCPIKE: A rare show of bipartisan support in the House, though 71 Democrats broke ranks with the president.

REP. BARBARA LEE, (D) CALIFORNIA: What in the world are we doing? Instead of rushing into yet another war, flooding the region with more weapons and intervening further in a civil war, Congress should be pressing the pause button.

MCPIKE: Joining 85 Republicans in rejecting the measure.

REP. DUNCAN HUNTER, (R) CALIFORNIA: I will not vote for something that I know will not work. Arming Islamists to fight other Islamists is not a winning strategy.

MCPIKE: The president urging the Senate to follow the House's lead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No more war!

MCPIKE: On the other site of the capitol, Secretary of State John Kerry facing a grilling, insisting the Syrian rebels require American support in lieu of actual troops.

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: Senator McCain knows that. He's been screaming about it for some time.

SEN. BOB CORKER, (R) TENNESSEE: We've all been screaming about it.

KERRY: Well, that's --

CORKER: You've all done nothing, or at least not much to talk about.

MCPIKE: With mounting doubt, that any mission against ISIS is even achievable without a dedicated ground presence, as the president promises.

CORKER: It seems to me the administration has placed many, many caveats on what we will not do. And our military leaders have urged you to put Special Forces on the ground, but, no, we're not going to do that. So this doesn't even seem serious.

MCPIKE: Just one day after Joint Chiefs Chairman General Martin Dempsey opened the door to a possible ground presence, President Obama coming face to face with troops at MacDill Air Force base, doubled down on this promise to them in the fight against is.

OBAMA: The American forces that have been deployed to Iraq do not and will not have a combat mission. They will support Iraqi forces on the ground as they fight for their own country against these terrorists.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCPIKE: Now White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest clarified Dempsey's remarks even further yesterday on Air Force One, saying he meant officials in advisory roles might need to embed with deployed Iraqis in combat, but that, quote, "They would not be personally or directly engaging the enemy." But Chris, each issue that gets raised during this debate is showing cracks in the team and bringing a barrage of additional questions that the administration is struggling to answer.

CUOMO: Right, it's also making it very clear, Erin, that the Congress is doing a lot of complaining and questioning but not fulfilling their role of actually debating this issue and having a vote on the plan. This was just a little piece that they voted on. The question is why aren't they doing more if they're so concerned? Erin McPike, thank you very much. Kate?

BOLDUAN: For more on this let's bring in Senator Susan Collins, Republican from Maine. She sits on the Senate intelligence committee. Senator, its' great to see you. Thanks for coming in.

SEN. SUSAN COLLINS, (R) MAINE: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: So where are you on this Syria vote that should be coming before the Senate this afternoon?

COLLINS: Well, first of all, I share the view that ISIS poses a tremendous threat not only to Iraq and the region but to western targets such as Australia, as we've seen this morning, and to Americans both abroad and at home.

But I have a number of concerns about the president's strategy. I don't know how we're going to effectively vet the so-called moderate Syrian opposition. We spent billions of dollars in a decade training the Iraqi security forces and look what happened when they were confronted with the ISIS threat. They basically cut and run, with the exception of the Kurdish forces in the north.

So we need to make sure, especially since the experts tell us that these forces are heavily infiltrated, that the training, equipping, and arming does not end up in the hands of ISIS fighters.

BOLDUAN: Have you gotten an answer yet, senator? I know you expressed these concerns to Secretary Kerry in a letter. Have you gotten any answers that would allay your concerns, put your concerns aside so you could vote? And how will you vote, you haven't yet said?

COLLINS: Well, let me say that the administration has reached out to me. The president called me, Samantha Power called me to discuss my concerns. And the answer I get is that the military has gotten better at doing the vetting. But one has only to look at the attacks, the insider attacks in Afghanistan to continue to have a lot of concerns.

It's very difficult because, as was said earlier, I think we should not be rushing to consideration of this issue. We should be staying in session and having a full debate, explore alternatives, make sure that the safeguards are there rather than having one series of votes today where we in the Senate may not even have a separate vote on the Syrian issue. I'm also very concerned that we not aim our air strikes at the Syrian regime and that we keep our focus on ISIS.

BOLDUAN: Have you gotten a clear answer on how the administration says in training and arming the Syrian rebels, how they will be able to then make sure that, one, the weapons don't end up pointing back at the United States, and, two, that the Syrian rebels will change their focus to ISIS rather than on the Syrian regime. Have you gotten an answer to that?

COLLINS: I have not gotten a satisfactory answer to either of those questions. And, look, the moderate Syrian opposition is much more likely to be focused against the Assad regime than it is against the fight against ISIS.

BOLDUAN: Is there an alternative in taking -- you at the top said you know and agree that ISIS needs to be eradicated, that ISIS is such a huge threat. Is there an alternative that you see to how to take on ISIS in Syria?

COLLINS: Let me make clear that I do support the air strikes in Syria, and I do think we need boots on the ground, but not American boots on the ground. I think we should rely on the Arab nations in the region to provide the ground troops as well as the Peshmerga from the Kurdish part of Iraq, and also once again try to rebuild the Iraqi security forces.

Look, I'm willing to give the president a certain amount of time to put his strategy into effect and then evaluate it. But this really is not the way we should be operating. This is a very serious conflict issue. And it deserves a debate on a new authorization for the use of military force, because when we're talking about going after targets in Syria, particularly targets that affect the Syrian regime, that's an act of war. We should not be rushing through such an important decision.

BOLDUAN: Well, and that issue came up very squarely in the hearing with Secretary Kerry yesterday. The secretary saying clearly with respect to asking Congress, I am. Do it, he said very clearly. And Senator Corker, he came back to say what you're asking doesn't even seem serious. Do you think that, that you've received any serious request from the administration to offer another authorization, a further authorization for use of military force? Do you think Congress will actually in any reality, take it up?

COLLINS: What I'm looking for is for both the president and the U.N. representative to submit to us is specifically language for the authorization for the use of military force that we could debate and then vote on.

BOLDUAN: It sure doesn't seem like you're going to get it.

COLLINS: No, and we should. That's what we need to do, and we should do it before we go home.

BOLDUAN: Why can't Congress do it -- why do you think Congress should not be acting to offer an authorization for use of military force without that request?

COLLINS: Well, generally it's the administration, since the president's commander-in-chief, that comes to Congress with this request. But there are members of the Senate, such as Senator Tim Kaine, who have drafted their own authorization. But we really should see what the administration wants very specifically, and there's no reason for us to adjourn tonight. We could stay in session and have a full debate on this really important issue. I think that may happen in the lame duck session after the election. But, really, it should be happening right now.

BOLDUAN: I know that a lot can happen in the hours before a vote. But real quick -- are you yes or no on the Syria vote at this moment?

COLLINS: I'm going to vote for the continuing resolution because I don't want government to shut down. Right now the Senate isn't even scheduled to have a separate vote on the Syrian resolution, and that's just plain wrong.

BOLDUAN: Senator Susan Collins, it's always great to have you, thank you so much.

COLLINS: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: A lot to debate on that issue, as you see from the senator's concerns.

CUOMO: At least she's asking for a debate. Most of them, including Corker, is saying, voicing concerns, but they don't want to meet and debate, and we know why -- they're afraid of the political fallout. No time it play politics, the senator is the one making the right case.

BOLDUAN: They need to talk to their leaders, that's for sure. Michaela?

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, we have some headlines to look at for you. Another big decision needing to be made today in Scotland. Voters there heading to the polls today to answer yes or no to the referendum question, should Scotland be an independent nation? An incredible turnout is expected our Christiane Amanpour told us earlier, 80 percent. The vote is expected to be very close, though. We should know the results by Friday morning.

Back here at home officials in Pennsylvania are concerned a suspected cop killer may try to strike again. Eric Matthew Frein remains on the run. We also have learned that he was active in a military simulation unit that reenacted cold war era European conflicts. Corporal Brian Dickson, who was killed in Friday's ambush, will be laid to rest today.

And 11 wildfires continue to burn across California. Governor Jerry Brown has declared a state of emergency in Siskiyou and El Dorado counties, the state's two hardest hit. The fires have already destroyed 150 buildings in northern California and they are threatening more than 2,000 homes east of Sacramento. Firefighters are struggling to regain control of the King fire, meanwhile, which has burned more than 40 square miles and is still growing.

Major privacy policy change for Apple, the company announced Wednesday that it will no longer unlock most iPhones and iPads for law enforcement even with presented with a search warrant. Apple's new IOS-8 operating system has been designed to encrypt data so not even Apple can access it. Previous operating systems allowed Apple to collect data from phones when police requested that information.

BOLDUAN: Very interesting.

PEREIRA: Isn't that an interesting development?

BOLDUAN: Actually a very interesting development in that new operating system.

PEREIRA: I feel there will be maybe some pressure on the part of law enforcement to say wait, wait, hold on.

CUOMO: You buy that it could be possible that they can't access their own information because of how it's encrypted?

BOLDUAN: No.

PEREIRA: I think somebody can always get access to it.

BOLDUAN: Hackers have proven that.

CUOMO: True.

BOLDUAN: We have new details on the breaking news coming out of Australia this morning -- ISIS sympathizers allegedly planning to kidnap and behead a random member of the public. What does that mean? What is going on there? And of course that always begs the question -- could that happen here?

CUOMO: And news on the NFL situation, the child abuse charges against Vikings star Adrian Peterson, are they in his character? And are people in his inner circle surprised? Hearing a lot about what he did, but what about who he is? We have an interview exclusively with Peterson's childhood coach and close friend. If you care about this story you're going to want to hear it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Breaking news out of Australia, authorities there stopping a shocking plot, a random broad daylight beheading allegedly planned by ISIS sympathizers. They weren't able to pull it off. This is exactly what New York Police Commissioner Bill Bratten calls a new era of terror. His city on high alert after an online posting urged ISIS supporters to target Times Square. Meanwhile, a New York man will be in a federal courtroom today accused of trying to recruit Americans to the cause. How real is the risk of ISIS at home?

A fundamental part of what's motivating this plan to fight ISIS. Let's get some perspective. CNN national security analyst and former Bush homeland security and counter-terrorism adviser Fran Townsend. Fran, the concern is obvious, if they can do it in Australia, can they do it here in New York City? Is that what we're seeing with the guy upstate in New York who they're trying, and the stuff online, and the threats, how real?

FRAN TOWNSEND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: You know, I think there are two different kinds of threats that there's real concern about. One is the ISIS foreign fighters, those guys who are overseas, an may then try to get into the United States to try to launch an attack. And then there's the home-grown jihadists. This is, it seems, we believe, what Australia is dealing with. It is easier to detect that when it's a group that comes together because they have to meet, they have to plan, they have to coordinate.

All of those represent opportunities for law enforcement to discover them and disrupt the attack. Which is what the Australians did. The hardest piece is the individual. Now we've seen arrests in Denver and the one you mentioned, where individuals who are sort of vulnerable to the ISIS propaganda machine, a very sophisticated, very capable machine, putting out videos, not only of the beheadings, but sort of inspirational videos, trying to inspire people already inside the United States, who are vulnerable, to join their cause. We saw a woman in Denver who was going to leave to go marry an ISIS member.

CUOMO: So the desire for news urgency aside, nothing new in terms of the threat in the U.S. It is understood by authorities what it could be. ISIS is just more of the same, not something unique, fair?

TOWSEND: I think that's fair, Commissioner Bratton was responding to a website by a group of ISIS sympathizers threatening an attack on New York. Not surprising, not really new. You don't know how real it is, but it's understandable that the commissioner in the NYPD would react to it.

CUOMO: I interviewed Bratton not long ago and he said look, this is part of the job now in New York City and that's one of the reasons he's back, and he is one it. Inspired some confidence and obviously we'll see what happens going forward with that. Now the overall problem -- Just bottom-line me here, the house just voted let's arm this free Syrian army. Do you believe that calling the free Syrian army an army is accurate?

TOWNSEND: Well, it's not clear that it is accurate. Because what you don't -- to the extent you use the word army and you're thinking --

CUOMO: Are they united.

TOWNSEND: -- Brigades and platoons, and are they organized. Are they united under a single command and control element. There is a leadership of the Syrian national congress and the free Syrian army, there is a leadership structure. But what you want to be sure, and the intelligence community and the United States and our allies are working now to confirm there is a unified military structure that can take instructions, be trained, act as a cohesive unit against the ISIS enemy.

CUOMO: Do you have confidence that this is the best force you would want to put against ISIS?

TOWSEND: Well, you don't get to pick the best force you're going to put against. You get to pick from the team that's available on the field.

CUOMO: You do if you are going to fight. But if you decide to fight, then you better be making the decision that you can you win, otherwise why are you fighting.

TOWNSEND: That's right, that means you have to properly resource, train, and equip the forces, right? Part of the debate yesterday in Congress, and I think it's a righteous question to ask, if you're going to support these free Syrian army, the Iraqi army, the Peshmerga, the Kurdish forces, you have to put sufficient U.S. military expertise on the ground to work with them. The to gather the intelligence, do the targeting, and literally advise them on the execution against those targets. If you're not willing to do that, you're either in or you're not in. This is not a time for half- measures and putting people's lives at risk. Not only our own, but those of our allies.

CUOMO: You think you can train up 5,000 farmers in two months to take on ISIS? Because that's what this former general is saying, we need two months, we'll be good to go. A doubling of the size of the Free Syrian Army.

TOWNSEND: Well there has been a good deal of training has been going on. It's been sort of covert, handled in places like Jordan. So we're not, we should be clear, we're not starting from a dead stop. The number is not now zero, right? What you're talking about is building on what is right now a quite modest force to your point. And you want to add on to that with really comprehensive training. But you also, you can train as many as you want. Unless you've got the intelligence to tell them, what -- where the targets are and how to execute it. It's no good. You need, you really need, it's not just a matter of training as tough a task as that is. It's also a matter of having the necessary intelligence to then actually deploy them against --

CUOMO: Final thing -- yes/no me on this. From what you understand of the situation and what this will require, is this a situation that requires full debate of the Congress that they should stay in session and vote on this as a declaration of war and get on the same page right away with all the different components? As opposed to just one step at a time?

TOWNSEND: Well, the yes/no part -- they need sufficient information to be able to vote. Whether or not that requires staying in, I mean I think you heard Susan Collins this morning say she needs more time. I really think it's up to the Senate to speak up and say we either have sufficient information take that vote. In which case they should do it. If they don't have sufficient information to be able to have that vote, they ought to stay in and debate it.

CUOMO: Fran Townsend, thank you very much for helping us understand a decidedly complex situation.

Another complex situation, although it's pretty obvious to some, Vikings superstar Adrian Peterson has always been considered one of the good guys in the NFL. Now thrown into doubt for an obvious reason -- his child abuse arrest and indictment. Was this behavior totally out of character? We're going to ask Peterson's close friend and former childhood coach. You can decide for yourself. Also the Senate race in Kentucky, man, is it getting ugly. Wait until

you see the ads, a new low? We say that all the time this one maybe deservedly show. Jon King is going to take it on when we go inside politics.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Let's get to Inside Politics on NEW DAY with Jon King. Jon?

JON KING, HOST, INSIDE POLITICS: Good morning to you, a busy time here in Washington. It's an election year remember, but the President right now trying to get authorization from the Congress to arm the Syrian rebels, key he says to the fight against ISIS. With me this morning to share the reporting and their insight on that an other topics, Margaret Talev of Bloomberg News and CNN's Peter Hamby.

Lets focus first on the votes, the Senate now will take up the plan, not a full war authorization. The President just needs the authority to arm the Syrian rebels, the moderate opposition, and to get the money. Have the defense department train them. Look at the house vote. As we wit to see that happens in the Senate, and we expect the president to win, 85 Democrats and 71 Republicans voted no. Is this a reflection of broad doubts about the President's plan or safe politics?

MARGARET TALEV, BLOOMBERG NEWS: It really is a mix. But when you look at the block of Democratic opposition, so many of these are of the anti-war Democrats who either oppose the Iraq war to begin with or would have opposed the Iraq war if they would have been there, or just that's the bloc.

PETER HAMBY, CNN NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: Jonathan Wiseman has an interesting point in his piece today in The New York Times, which is so many Democrats and Republicans in Congress weren't there there's been so much turnover since the Iraq war. But those people, those Democrats who were there, and voted for the Iraq war are sort of once bitten, twice shy about these authorizations. And yes it's narrow in scope. But I think their take is that look what the Bush administration did what the authorization for military force in 2002, which was to use it over, and over again to justify military force. I think they're a little bit wary that a sort of a narrow vote can still be expanded into a bigger war.

TALEV: It is a predicate for war.

KING: It is a predicate for war. We should note the President had the congressional picnic, he thanked the house for the vote. He said it was a rare moment when Washington was coming together. And there you have it, maybe they should do it more often in Washington. Have people get together and have a conversation. It's nice the President had the event. One of the reason some of the Democrats were nervous is because of the controversy stirred up this week by General Dempsey. The chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. In my view he was just simple being honest. He was asked questions about, what if you need a plan b, or plan c.