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Can ISIS Be Defeated Without Boots On Ground?; Australia Terror Treat Thwarted; Arizona Star Jonathan Dwyer Arrested; Historic Scotland Referendum Underway

Aired September 18, 2014 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: President Obama and Secretary of State John Kerry doubled down in their simple truth that no U.S. combat troops will be on the ground in Iraq and Syria. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: As your commander-in-chief, I will not commit you and the rest of our armed forces to fighting another ground war in Iraq.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CUOMO: Just as clear is that who is strong enough and willing enough to fight ISIS except the U.S. is getting more and more difficult to answer. The president's plan to go after ISIS in Syria did get a boost. It got a green light from the House.

But you have to take a look at the numbers, OK, 71 Democrats, members of his own party, didn't vote with him. They refused to back the bill and the obvious rationale is they don't trust the Free Syrian Army. They don't even think it is an army and they don't believe you can trust the rebels right now and that means that the plan won't work, OK.

Stan Grant is going to start off our coverage, though, from Australia because we want to figure out what happened with this terror plot that was thwarted.

STAN GRANT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What we've seen here is being described as the biggest anti-terror raid ever in Australian history around 800 police involved in New South Wales, Australia's biggest city, Sydney and also Brisbane, in Queensland.

We've been told by police that 15 people have been detained, some of those resisting arrest. One man has been charged and will appear in court. The allegation here that these people were planning a terrorist attack.

Being described as a random attack against a member of the public, to be carried out on the streets of Sydney. Now all of this comes as the terror warning in Australia has been increased from medium, which would have been a possible attack, to high, which is a likely attack.

Now, new counterterrorism laws have been announced as well and there's been increased funding to try to deal with the threat of terrorism here in Australia.

Prime Minister Tony Abbott is particularly concerned with the number of Australians, the scores of Australians, who have gone to Iraq and Syria, to join the fight with Islamic state.

CUOMO: Our thanks to Stan Grant. You have to remember the key phrase there is "ISIS sympathizers." The concern obviously social media and recruiting spreading a message of hate that's being picked up around the world -- Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's keep our focus on ISIS and head back to D.C. now and the House vote on the fight against ISIS. Erin McPike has much more on this from Washington. What have we learned this morning, Erin?

ERIN MCPIKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kate, the president also met with 20 high-level members of his national security team yesterday afternoon as they refined the strategy to deal with the threat of foreign terrorists.

Now that House vote yesterday was a small, but symbolic victory for the White House. But questions are piling up on both sides of the aisle showing growing doubt that the national security strategy can be effective.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MCPIKE (voice-over): President Obama commending members of Congress.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The amendment is adopted.

MCPIKE: For approving one piece of his strategy in the war against ISIS.

PRESIDENT OBAMA: I want to start off by saying thank you to House members, Republican and Democrat, who came together today to pass an important component on our strategy for dealing with the terrible terrorist organization known as ISIL.

MCPIKE: A rare show of bipartisan support in the House, though, 71 Democrats broke ranks with the president.

REPRESENTATIVE BARBARA LEE (D), CALIFORNIA: What in the world are we doing? Instead of rushing into yet another war, flooding the region with more weapons and intervening further in a civil war, Congress should be pressing the pause button.

MCPIKE: Joining 85 Republicans in rejecting the measure.

REPRESENTATIVE DUNCAN HUNTER (R), CALIFORNIA: I will not vote for something that I know will not work. Arming Islamists to fight other Islamists is not a winning strategy.

MCPIKE: The president urging the Senate to follow the House's lead. On the other side of the capitol, Secretary of State John Kerry facing a grilling, insisting the Syrian rebels require American support in lieu of actual troops.

JOHN KERRY, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Senator McCain knows it, he's been screaming about it for some time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've all been screaming about it and have done nothing or not much to talk about.

MCPIKE: With mounting doubt that any mission against ISIS is even achievable without a dedicated ground presence as the president promises.

SENATOR BOB CORKER (R), TENNESSEE: It seems to me the administration has placed many, many, caveats on what we will not do. And our military leaders have urged you to put Special Forces on the ground, but no, we're not going to do that. So this doesn't even seem serious.

MCPIKE: Just one day after Joint Chiefs Chairman General Martin Dempsey opened the door to a possible ground presence, President Obama coming face to face with troops at MacDill Air Force base doubled down on this promise to them in the fight against ISIS.

PRESIDENT OBAMA: The American forces that have been deployed to Iraq do not and will not have a combat mission. They will support Iraqi forces on the ground as they fight for their own country against these terrorists.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCPIKE: Now, White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest also clarified Dempsey's remarks even further yesterday in a briefing on Air Force One saying he meant officials in advisory roles might need to embed with Iraqis in combat, but that, quote, "They would not be personally or directly engaging the enemy -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: Erin, thank you so much. Erin McPike from Washington for us. I want to bring in to continue this discussion with Robin Wright. She is a Middle East analyst from the Woodrow Wilson Center International Center for Scholars. Robin, it's great to see you.

ROBIN WRIGHT, MIDDLE EAST ANALYST, WOODROW WILSON CENTER: Nice to be with you.

BOLDUAN: Let's start right where Erin left off, that the White House continue to seems to try to clarify that they believe there's no distinction, no difference, no daylight between what the president has said, very often, no combat troops on the ground and what General Dempsey was saying.

We heard from Secretary Kerry yesterday, right in line with the president. They seem to be trying to draw a bright line between a combat mission and being in combat. Is that a difference, is that a distinction without a difference? Is that a difference without a distinction?

WRIGHT: Well, I think the whole operation is still evolving and they're obviously building a lot of options. For the moment, they don't want to put in combat troops, but they do have advisers, maybe that these advisers have to move out of Baghdad, closer to the front lines.

And so it looks a little blurry at the moment, but it may take some time to actually figure out what role these advisers actually play on the ground. But the idea I think is not to put enormous numbers of ground troops on the front lines again.

BOLDUAN: Is it a problem for the White House, the administration, not domestically, even though it is important, but also when the world is watching, that the message seems to be muddled? Where are we going and are we all on the same page?

WRIGHT: I think it's a problem not just in the United States, but I think it's around the world as they look at both the role of the United States and this broader coalition, who is going to contribute? What roles are they going to play?

It's all very vague, I call it a house of cards coalition, because you have a very kind of wood frame without the support beams, the furnishings, the floor plan much less the financing.

And I think the United States as Americans look at another third war in 25 years in Iraq, there's a little bit of confusion about not only what are we exactly going to do on the ground for how long in Iraq.

But then there's phase two and that's the big question, the much more murky question is what happens when we try to beat the Islamic State out of Syria, which is a whole different operation.

BOLDUAN: Let's talk about that. The House voted on bipartisan basis, yesterday, to approve arming and training the rebels. That also means there was bipartisan opposition to that vote as well.

The Senate is expected to pass it. Has the president, has Secretary Kerry, has the administration made a convincing enough argument that arming the rebels will work?

WRIGHT: I don't think so. I think there's, there is the dilemma they face. If you're going to take on ISIS, if you cross the threshold of getting involved, can you stop at Iraq?

And the danger is -- no, if you really believe you need to degrade and destroy it, you have to move beyond the frontier and move it back to its origins. Otherwise, you're just containing it.

If they can withdraw to Syria, still be a threat, not the just to Iraq, but to everybody else in the region. They can still attract more foreign fighters. They can be a very destabilizing force, long- term in the region.

So the challenge is, what do you do? And if we're not going to put ground troops, then you support rebels. The problem is the rebels have not yet proven they can do very much of anything. At least the ones we're prepared to support. BOLDUAN: We heard that a lot in the Senate hearing yesterday. I mean, I heard that over and over again from Senator Bob Corker, who he says I have been a supporter of arming the rebels for a very long time.

But at this point what is the Free Syrian Army? Does it exist? Is this group that the president says is a group of farmers and doctors that are just coming together, it was a fantasy they were going to make a difference -- can we trust them?

WRIGHT: And can we trust that they'll also be able to actually hold onto the equipment that we, the Iraqi army, which has been trained by the United States, wasn't able to hold on to the sophisticated equipment.

What are the prospects of these, farmers and pharmacists are going to be able to hold on to the equipment? If it's going to take three years to retrain the Iraqi army, which we've already retrained, how long will it take to train these rebels, their fighting force not just against ISIS --

BOLDUAN: How much time realistically do you think they have to train the rebels? What do you think is the timeline that they can realistically be working with?

WRIGHT: I doubt they have a timeline. I suspect they're talking about an initial round of training to get some people on the ground, to be more dynamic, to take on whether it's ISIS or the Syrian government.

But I think this is a long-term operation and this is a war that could last as long as the one we've already fought in Iraq and potentially for longer.

BOLDUAN: Far beyond the three years that have been forecast in recent weeks. I want to get your take, also, the new prime minister to Iraq has been commended by the administration as bringing together a more inclusive government in Iraq.

I mean, it's a kind of good first step of bringing about that political reconciliation that they've been looking for. But in an interview with the "Associated Press," he made very clear that he does not want foreign fighters on the ground in Iraq.

Saying very simply, and we'll put up part of the interview with the "Associated Press," not only is it not necessarily, we don't want them. We won't allow them. Full stop.

And he's talking about United States forces, U.S. ground forces or others.

WRIGHT: Well, particularly after the U.S. intervention the last time around and the way we left Iraq, frankly. That to be legitimate the government knows it needs to be the one to be seen to run this operation, to coordinate what happens and to be the one whose forces are fighting. The problem in Iraq is, because the Iraqi army, half of the Iraqi army isn't effective enough to fight.

BOLDUAN: We heard that from General Dempsey.

WRIGHT: Exactly and the other half needs to be retrained. In the meantime, it's going to be militias, the three Shiite militias that are loyal to Iran, the Peshmerga. The Kurds in the north, who are going to be the ones that are fighting. The danger down the road you may find you have the emergence of kind of war lordism --

BOLDUAN: Yes.

WRIGHT: Because as the militias become the power --

BOLDUAN: Robin, is the United States going to work directly with the Shia militias?

WRIGHT: Well, whether the advisers work with them -- remember, we're getting into the murky territory. The irony is that the United States and Iran are now the two most dynamic players when it comes to advising and aiding the Iraqis to retake their own territory.

BOLDUAN: A complex situation to say the very least. Robin Wright, it's great to see you, Robin.

WRIGHT: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Thanks so much.

Coming up later this hour, we're going to be talking to a key member of the Free Syrian Army, the rebel group that Robin and I were just talking about. The rebel group that the United States may soon be arming and training -- Chris.

CUOMO: All right, you'll want to hear that interview because it will be the first perspective we really have on what's going on with the Free Syrian Army from their own perspective.

But we also want to tell you this morning about the NFL because, boy, the hits keep coming for the league. Breaking overnight, another star running back, this time Arizona's Jonathan Dwyer, deactivated after his arrest on domestic violence charges.

Police pulling him off the team's practice field. This, after the Minnesota Vikings bans star running back, Adrian Peterson until his child abuse case is resolved.

And the Carolina Panthers banned star lineman, Greg Hardy. Remember, he had been playing. His situation now is going to be frozen until his appeal from a domestic violence conviction is figured out by the system.

Nischelle Turner is here with the latest. Now Nischelle, while it does seem bad, at least with the newest case, the league took action immediately that just, isolates the player until the truth is figured out by the system, progress?

NISCHELLE TURNER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Indeed and that is a good point. We could look at that as progress. But Chris, with everything going on and the spotlight squarely on player conduct and domestic violence in the NFL, seemingly the last thing most people expected was to wake up news of yet another player arrested for domestic violence against a woman.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED ANNOUNCER: It's Dwyer, he's in.

TURNER (voice-over): This morning, Jonathan Dwyer, a running back for the Arizona Cardinals, now in custody. The football star is the sixth NFL player making headlines for alleged abuse in the past few days.

Dwyer arrested at the Cardinals' training facility. Stemming from a slew of alleged abuse beginning in late July, including one count of aggravated assault against a 27-year-old female, causing a fracture. And another involving his 18-month-old child.

SGT. TRENT CRUMP, PHOENIX POLICE: He has been interviewed by our detectives. He has admitted involvement in the incidents. However, has denied allegations of physical assault.

TURNER: Police say during one incident, he threw a shoe at the 18- month-old. Then tossed a cell phone of the female victim out a window, preventing her from calling police. The Cardinals say they have taken the immediate step to deactivate Jonathan from all team activities.

ANNOUNCER: Jonathan Dwyer, who had the touchdown --

TURNER: Half a dozen NFL players across the country are now facing domestic violence charges.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's no rule book for these guys.

TURNER: Wednesday, Carolina Panthers defensive end, Greg Hardy, took a voluntary paid leave of absence after being convicted for domestic violence. In May, authorities say Hardy choked his then-girlfriend, dragged her by her hair into a tub and threatened to kill her. The Panthers star has asked for a new trial.

ZYGI WILF, MINNESOTA VIKINGS OWNER: We made a mistake and we needed to get this right.

TURNER: The Minnesota Vikings deactivating running back, Adrian Peterson, facing a child abuse charge. Retracting from an earlier decision to keep him in the game after sponsors voiced their outrage. Many of Peterson's teammates say he should stay on the field.

CAPTAIN MUNNERLYN, MINNESOTA VIKINGS CORNERBACK: Growing up, that was nothing, man, my mom, she always whipped me up or and things like that, man. Just -- you know, in my culture, that's how I was raised, that's how my mom, she raised her kids, like I said, man, look at me now, I'm in the NFL.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TURNER (on camera): This is the argument we've heard continuously from a number of players about the Adrian Peterson case. Now, we heard from some of his teammates yesterday, who were either hesitant to talk or they backed Adrian fully. Everyone seemed very uncomfortable.

Now, as some former and current players why it was so hard for people to take a stand, NFL players to take a stand, they said it's a hard thing to talk about and no one wants to look like they're turning on their teammate -- Chris.

CUOMO: It is a difficult situation, that's why you need leadership and it's got to come from the league.

Nischelle, thank you very much.

TURNER: Sure.

CUOMO: Later in the next hour, we're going to speak exclusively with Adrian Peterson's close friend and former coach.

Mick?

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Let's take a look at your headlines right now. Sixteen minutes past the hour.

Mounting concerns this morning about the suspected Pennsylvania cop killer, who is still on the run. Police are concerned that Eric Matthew Frein may target more officers. Frein was active in a military simulation unit, the reenacted Cold War era European conflicts. Corporal Byron Dickson was killed in Friday's ambush. He was laid to rest yesterday.

In Missouri where Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson has appeared before a grand jury. Wilson testified for close to four hours Wednesday about the fatal shooting of unarmed teenager Michael Brown last month. Now, Officer Wilson was not required to appear, but reports from the hearing say he was cooperative. Brown's death, as you know, sparked weeks of sometimes violent protests and calls for Wilson to be indicted.

Toronto Mayor Rob Ford set to undergo aggressive chemotherapy after he was diagnosed with a rare form of cancer. Doctors say a tumor in Ford's abdomen turned out to be a malignant liposarcoma. The treatment is aimed at shrinking the tumor. Doctors say they're optimistic. Earlier this week, Ford announced he was dropping his re- election bid.

Those are your headlines.

BOLDUAN: A sad twist in a sad, sad story. Thanks, Michaela.

Now, it is judgment day as the Scots go to the polls to vote on independence. The race is still too close to call. And both sides mounting a last-minute push for votes.

Christian Amanpour is going to be joining us live from Edinburgh.

CUOMO: Everyone is talking about the Free Syrian Army, right? Well, we spoke to them, a former commander who is supposed to be the U.S.'s main envoy to the group. You're going do want to hear what he has to say about whether or not they need America to beat back ISIS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Welcome back to NEW DAY.

Happening right now in Scotland, millions of voters are deciding whether to remain a part of the United Kingdom. The up or down vote on independence could overturn hundreds of years of history. America's chief ally could be torn into two pieces. Even the Union Jack, the flag is in danger.

Despite last-minute push from both sides, the contest remains far too close to call.

So, let's bring in Christiane Amanpour, CNN's chief international correspondent, monitoring the situation.

We hear that turnout could be very, very high. But you tell us, Christiane, how does it feel on the ground?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, from all reports, it is pretty brisk as they would say here. And, of course, they do expect a turnout of some 80 percent -- the kind of turnout that would make people envious, politicians in the United States envious.

There is a 97 percent voter registration that's happened here. It is really extraordinary. It gives you a sense of just how critical this is, just how engaged everyone is. And as you say of course, it is on a knife edge.

Now, the obviously the nationalists, Scottish national party, the pro independents, people say this is our moment, this is our destiny. This is our chance to be independent and run our own affairs.

The no campaign, in other words, the unionists, those who want to stay part of Great Britain, are saying look, it is much better, it is much stronger together. Be prepared for at least a decade of economic uncertainty and economic hardship as the very painful transition goes through.

But no matter what happens, even if it's a no vote, even if it's to keep the United Kingdom together, there will be a lot of change. Former Prime Minister Gordon Brown spelled it out. He told me it's inevitably going to be much less central control.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GORDON BROWN, FORMER PRIME MINISTER: Britain can no longer think of itself as a centralized state, a unitary state of undiluted Westminster sovereignty. That has changed and in some sense, we're moving closing towards the American model of government and models of government that we see whether it's very considerable decentralization -- Canada, Australia, Germany. Very big decentralization in these countries, and I think that's the model we'll see in the future.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AMANPOUR: Now, that is quite dramatic, the first time we've heard them say that Great Britain, the United Kingdom, could end up looking like America in terms of its politics -- very, very interesting. One thing to note, it's been very bitter. In fact, even nasty in some cases over the last several days between the two camps.

The most famous Brit, who is a Scot, is Andy Murray, probably in terms of sports. Andy Murray who said today on a tweet that the negative campaign by the no is swaying him and he's used the independents' language of, "let's do this." So, he's obviously been swayed.

On the other hand, there's a campaign of intimidation that we hear by the independence people. We've seen a major British political reporter booed out of an Alex Salmond rally. We saw a major British party leader, Ed Milliband, of the Labour Party run out of a campaign appearance here this week.

It is, it is quite nasty as the campaigning ended and now the voting has begun -- Chris.

CUOMO: Christiane, help us out here, because, you know, people will recognize that Scots are known for fighting spirit, right?

But the last time most in the U.S. thought about Scots and independence, they were watching the movie "Braveheart" and it was Mel Gibson running around.

So, help us understand -- why is this happening, especially now?

AMANPOUR: Well look, I think that this was an inevitable process after devolution. In 1997, then-Labor Prime Minister Tony Blair started this process, Scotland got its first independent parliament.

Scotland right now is able to run its own health service and that is one of the key platforms in this campaign. We want to protect our own health service. It's jealously guarded over here. But they do run it. They have budgetary control and policy control. And this is the dream of the first minister, the nationalist leader, Alex Salmond.

But on the other hand, there is a lot to be said for keeping the union together. Because on every level, it will weaken the component parts of the United Kingdom -- economically, certainly, economists have said that about Scotland. But as regards the United States, its ally, Great Britain, will be different, will be perhaps weakened.

What will happen to Britain's nuclear deterrent, that keeps it in NATO? All of these are massive, massive questions that the critics of the nationalist independence campaign say have not been properly answered. Not to mention, they don't have an answer to currency right now.

CUOMO: Right. And reading into it, it does seem that there's some fundamental economic concerns on the part of the Scots, they feel they're giving more than they get. To turn it to selfish aims and means here, Christiane, why should the U.S. care what happens over there?

AMANPOUR: The United States cares because: A, there are a lot of Americans of Scottish descent, that's one personal care.

But obviously the United States cares because Great Britain has been the U.S. main ally -- trusting, trustworthy, strong ally for decades and decades. There is something called that special relationship, it's not an accident. It's not a romantic term of art. It is because on every issue, the United States stands shoulder to shoulder with Great Britain. And Great Britain for the U.S. leads overseas and gathers, helps gather coalitions and all sorts of other historic bonds that tie the two together.

CUOMO: Christiane Amanpour, thank you so much. Please keep us apprised of the progress on this vote. We'll certainly be watching. Always great to have you on NEW DAY, my friend.

AMANPOUR: Thanks, Chris.

CUOMO: Now to Christiane's her point, one of the places that the U.S. and Britain are really tied to the hip is on ISIS. And right now, Congress is about to approve the president's plan to arm and train the Free Syrian Army. They're going to be the boots on the ground.

Now, is that going to work? Is it a good idea? You're going to get a unique perspective from the Free Syrian Army itself. You're going to get to hear what one of their former commanders have to say about the state of the army, what they can do, and whether or not they need or even want American help.

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