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Store Owner Accused of Funding ISIS; Warning from National Counterterrorism Director Matthew Olsen; AQAP Pursuing High-Profile Attacks; Sotloff Companion Relives ISIS Abduction; Combat Forces in Iraq

Aired September 17, 2014 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello. I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting from Washington.

It's a big day for strategy, a big day for anti-terror talk, both inside and outside of Washington. Coming up during this hour, actually during the next hour, the Secretary of State John Kerry will testify up on Capitol Hill. He'll be asked about his trip to the Middle East to build an anti-ISIS coalition and whether the United States has dependable partners in the region.

Meanwhile, President Obama was in Florida meeting with military strategists going over contingency plans for the fight against ISIS.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Whether in Iraq or in Syria, these terrorists will learn the same thing that the leaders of al Qaeda already know. We mean what we say. Our reach is long. If you threaten America, you will find no safe haven. We will find you eventually.

(APPLAUSE)

OBAMA: But, and this is the thing I want to emphasize, this is not and will not be America's fight alone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Also today, the House heard some chilling testimony about threats to the U.S. homeland that includes a rivalry among some of the various terror groups making the United States potentially an even bigger target.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEH JOHNSON, DIRECTOR, HOMELAND SECURITY: These groups are in competition with one another for attention, for fund-raising, for recruitment. And one way to compete is to show that you're the biggest and baddest group out there. And so, I think that the environment we're in right now presents additional challenges.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: The House of Representatives also debating the strategy in Syria whether to arm Syrian rebels in the fight against ISIS.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. DAVID JOLLY (R), FLORIDA: We must eradicate the ISIS regime that perverts a religion founded on peace and uses it as a platform to engage in crucifixions and beheadings and mass murders. But I oppose today's request because it fails to seek the full authorization of this body. It fails to seek a clear mandate of the American people. And because it asks this body to approve only one small portion of an overall strategy that is continuing to evolve.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: If the House does pass that bill, it will then go to the Senate where West Virginia Senator Joe Manchin laid out his very serious concerns.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE MANCHIN, WEST VIRGINIA: The opposition fighters that we will train care more about overthrowing Assad's regime than they do about defeating ISIS. Assad is evil, make no mistake about it. But he is not a threat to America. If the moderate opposition has to choose between defeating Assad and defeating ISIS, why do we believe -- think about this. Why do we believe that they'll choose our priority over their own? Why would we even think that? How do we know that they won't join forces with ISIS if it helps them overthrow Assad?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: We're going to have much more on all these angles during the course of this hour.

Meanwhile, New York City's police commissioner, Bill Bratton, says his city is quite concerned about the capabilities of ISIS. While there's no credible threat to New York, a new post on a message board affiliated with ISIS urges sympathizers to attack various tourist spots including Times Square.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM BRATTON, POLICE COMMISSIONER, NEW YORK: Their ability to use social media to try and spread their recruitment efforts, to try and inspire, they have a number of magazines including one called "Inspire" where they make it quite clear what they would like adherence to do. And whether it's to gives guidelines on how to create a bomb, potential locations to attack. This is a new world, if you, an evolving world of terrorism.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Bill Bratton's comments came as federal prosecutors announced the indictment of a man in upstate New York for supporting the terrorist network. Evan Perez is with me here in Washington. So, Evan, why do authorities think this man was actually supporting working for ISIS? EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, this man's name is Mufid

Elfgeeh, a shopkeeper in Rochester, New York. The authorities say that he was active on Twitter in the past year, sending out messages, including appeals for people to fund-raise on behalf of ISIS, send money to help them raise money to buy weapons.

And according to authorities, they introduced him to a couple of informants, undercover FBI informants, and he started, basically, laying out a plot, not only to send people over to Syria to join ISIS but also to, perhaps, do some attacks here in the United States, to possibly attack U.S. soldiers returning from Iraq and attacks against Shia Muslims in western New York. They have now charged him in court in Rochester, and we expect that he's going to appear in court this afternoon, Wolf.

BLITZER: Later this afternoon. Now, he was born in Yemen, right? A naturalized U.S. citizen?

PEREZ: That's right. He's a naturalized U.S. citizen born in Yemen. And what's interesting about this case, Wolf, is that either (ph) you see a sort of change in the way ISIS is doing recruiting. This guy has no contacts, that we know of, with actual members of ISIS. He is doing the recruiting. He's on his own trying to encourage people, these two informants here, and someone back in Yemen, to go join ISIS. And he's doing this on social media and he's doing all these things on his own. And that's what's scaring U.S. officials now today.

BLITZER: U.S. officials are testifying today their concern about this so-called lone wolf, home-grown terrorist, if you will, even without formally working with Al Qaeda or any of these other various terror groups like ISIS. They could cause a lot of potential damage.

PEREZ: Right. And this is a big difference from when Nidal Hasan, if you remember, was communicating with Anwar Al Awlaki, the cleric in Yemen, and getting some direction as to what to do. In this case, a lot of these guys are subdirected, Wolf.

BLITZER: Nidal Hasan -- Major Nidal Hasan who --

PEREZ: Right.

BLITZER: -- killed a lot of fellow soldiers at Fort Hood in Texas and he's serving a long prison sentence --

PEREZ: Right.

BLITZER: -- right now. Thanks very much, Evan, for that report.

Now, the top U.S. counterterrorism official, here in Washington, delivered an ominous warning today about the threat from Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula also known as AQAP. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEW OLSEN, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL COUNTERTERRORISM CENTER: Al Qaeda core continues to support attacking the west and, for now, remains the recognized leader of a -- of a global Jihadist movement. Al Qaeda's official branch is in Yemen and Somalia, continue to remain extremely active. Of course, over the past five years, Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula sought on three times to take down an airplane bound for the United States. And then, here in the United States, last year's bombing of the Boston marathon is a reminder -- a sober reminder of the threat we face from self-directed bomb extremists.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: So, pretty chilling warning there from the National Counterterrorism director, Matthew Olsen.

Let's get some reaction. Joining us from Capitol Hill, the Republican chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee, Congressman Michael McCaul of Texas. Congressman, when you hear the Counterterrorism director, Matthew Olsen, say those words, that Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, in his words, continue to target western aviation, how serious of a threat is that?

REP. MICHAEL MCCAUL (R), TEXAS, CHAIRMAN, HOUSE HOMELAND SECURITY COMMITTEE: Well, it's very serious. And they have continued to try to exploit the aviation sector by building bomb devices that can go undetected through airports which is why we've ramped up screening in probably 25 different overseas airports today.

And as Matt Olsen talked about, the Director of NCTC, I think what's most chilling is now the connection between AQAP, the bomb-making, the technology with now forces like Al Nusra and as most recently as ISIS in Syria. So, you have those technology and manpower coming together that could be quite a dangerous cocktail and combination.

BLITZER: And he makes it clear that AQAP, Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, given their technical skills and bomb-making, also going after western aviation, that they may, at least in this area, be a bigger threat than ISIS, at least in the short term. Is that your assessment?

MCCAUL: Well, we've been concerned about AQAP for quite some time. That's known as core Al Qaeda. Zawahiri has been trying to get them to launch what they call external operations against the west and the United States.

So, what you really have here, Wolf, is a -- like a competition going on now, and a dangerous one, between core Al Qaeda, which is AQAP, and now Al Baghdadi, which is ISIS, for who is the biggest game in town? Who can get the most attention? And the best way to do that -- from my perspective, the thing that concerns me about that competition, the best way to do that is to strike the west and to strike the homeland. And that's something that they haven't been able to do since -- really, since Bin Laden.

BLITZER: Is there any chance, based on all the intelligence analysis you've seen, Congressman, and I'm sure you've seen a lot of it, that various groups like ISIS on one hand, core Al Qaeda on the other hand, right now, they're split, they're in competition, as you accurately point out, but they could unite at some point down the road? Because that would represent a much greater threat potentially.

MCCAUL: Well, that's right. You have this -- again, this sort of dangerous competition of one-upsmanship. On the other hand, most recently, we are seeing now sort of an alliance between certain AQAP factions and with ISIS in Syria. I think ISIS has gained so much national global prominence that they are the game in town. You're seeing more of these militants breaking away from Zawahiri and joining Al Baghdadi. That would -- that turns them into an incredibly powerful, dangerous force against the western interests and the United States.

And you talked about -- earlier about lone wolves. You know, I pulled the "Inspire" magazine out at the hearing today which shows you how to specifically make bombs for car bombs. It talks about the specific targets in the United States. So, they're not bashful. And this sort of technology they have, this media -- social media program they have is very effective and very sophisticated. We're very worried about that threat as well.

BLITZER: Yes, they've got one article entitled "How to Build a Bomb in the Kitchen of Your Mom" in that "Inspire" magazine put out by Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula.

Very quickly, how are you going to vote on this legislation to appropriate, what, $500 million to arm and train moderate Syrian rebels?

MCCAUL: Yes, I'm going to support it. And the money is reprogrammed -- the reason why I'm supporting it, anything I can do to help defeat and destroy ISIS, I will do that. I do think that the modern -- moderate Syrian force is really in the best position to defeat the Sunni extremists. Now, we could put advisers and some Special Forces to help enable and deliver our capabilities and air strikes.

But, at the end of the day, the ground force itself in Syria needs to be made up of Sunni moderates and there are many of them. And these Sunni Arab nations need to step up to the plate. General Allen is leading the coalition to pull them together. And, frankly, they ought to be putting their troops in Syria to defeat Sunni extremists. You know, we're viewed as the great Satan. But the Sunni moderate force, I believe, if they can purge their own extremism, that really is the best equation, the best way to handle this.

BLITZER: Hey, Congressman, thanks very much for joining us.

MCCAUL: Thanks.

BLITZER: Mike McCaul is the Chairman of the House Homeland Security Committee.

Still ahead, will there be U.S. ground troops in Iraq? It certainly depends on who you're asking. We'll take a closer look at the sort of mixed messages we're hearing from the president and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

And secretary of state, John Kerry, may be doing some clarifying on that topic as well. He's preparing to testify up on Capitol Hill. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: President Obama, again last week, reiterated his promise to degrade and ultimately destroy ISIS. Now, it appears the terror group has issued its own response to the president's threat. This new video seems to indicate ISIS terrorists would target and kill American troops if President Obama were to reverse his position and deploy U.S. ground forces to Iraq or Syria. This slickly-produced video looks like a -- actually a Hollywood trailer. It runs 52 seconds. It shows U.S. troops being attacked as well as President Obama and the White House. It also features the phrase, quote, "The fighting has just begun." And (INAUDIBLE) coming soon, as you just saw.

There are also new details about the abduction of the American journalist, Steven Sotloff. He was the second U.S. citizen beheaded by ISIS. A man who was kidnapped alongside Sotloff says U.S. officials never even questioned him about the incident. But our Karl Penhaul did and filed this report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As he wanders through old Istanbul, Yosef Abobaker's mind floats back to the friend he could not save. Abobaker was a producer, or so called fixer, for U.S. journalist Steven Sotloff. They were kidnapped just inside Syria by ISIS gunmen in August 2013. Sotloff never made it out alive. They were just 20 minutes into their drive to Aleppo. Abobaker explained three cars were parked by the highway. About 15 gunmen armed with assault rifles leapt out when they saw them approach. He says the gunmen ordered him and Sotloff to cover their eyes.

YOSEF ABOBAKER, FIXER: They hit him with the gun and say close your face. Close it, but in Arabic. I explain to him, Steve, close your eyes or they will hit you. They hit me and say to me, shut up, don't talk English.

PENHAUL: Before working as a fixer, Abobaker said he'd spent a few months fighting in the ranks of the rebel Talhid (ph) brigade, a moderate Islamist faction. Shortly after they were snatched, Abobaker say the gunmen took them to a textile factory on the outskirts of Aleppo.

ABOBAKER: Took us up to a floor inside building and put everybody in the room alone. After that I hear one, he talk with Steve, he say to him, "give me your password," just he say to him, "password." And Steve give him the password for a telephone, for laptop, I don't know. And after that I didn't hear the voice of Steve.

PENHAUL: Abobaker, his brother and cousins were held for 15 days. He did not see or hear any American or British jihadis.

Abobaker "Do you know who is us?" I told him, I think you are ISIS. Islamic State in Iraq and Sham. He said, yes, you are in the Islamic State of Iraq and Sham. We should kill you because you are spy. You work with America with CIA and FBI. We will leave you now because you have these papers, you can go now. But if we hear you're working with journalists again, we will kill you for sure.

PENHAUL: Abobaker said he'd worked safely with schools of other international journalists before Sotloff's abduction. Reporters who knew him and were consulted by CNN say he was trustworthy. He believes a border guard may have tipped off ISIS. After he was freed, he says he was never interviewed by any U.S. officials or investigators.

ABOBAKER: No, from the government of American, they didn't anyone contact, any officer, they didn't contact me or ask me about that anything about how you were kidnapped. Or tried to take any information about my kidnap or Steve.

PENHAUL: The rebel fighter turned fixer learned of Sotloff's execution from the video ISIS posted online September 2nd.

ABOBAKER: You don't have to send any message to the killer. The killer is killer. But I send message to the world to say it's not really Islam. They are liar. And I say that to everybody, to all the people. I say they are not Muslims. (INAUDIBLE). They are enemy.

PENHAUL: Karl Penhaul, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: We reached out to the FBI for comment. While they wouldn't comment directly on Abobaker's claims, they did give us a statement that reads in part, "the FBI is actively investigating the savage murder of Steven Sotloff. We are committed to bringing the murders to justice."

Still ahead, boots on the ground in Iraq, it's still in question as Washington has been delivering some mixed messages. Messages from the president on one hand, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs on the other hand. Will the secretary of state, John Kerry, be able to clarify when he testifies up on Capitol Hill? Congressman Greg Meeks from the House Foreign Affairs Committee, he's standing by live. He will weigh in.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: The message has been clear from the White House, ISIS is a direct threat that must be dealt with. But after that, we're hearing a bit of some wiggle room.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Now that those teams have completed their work and Iraq has formed a government, we will send an additional 475 service members to Iraq. As I've said before, these American forces will not have a combat mission. We will not get dragged into another ground war in Iraq.

GEN. MARTIN DEMPSEY, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: My view at this point is that this coalition is the appropriate way forward. I believe that will prove true. But if it fails to be true and if there are threats to the United States, then I, of course, would go back to the president and make a recommendation that may include the use of U.S. military ground forces.

SUSAN RICE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: But we'll do what's necessary in that theater to deal with the ISIL threat. And I anticipate, since it is a threat, that evolves and moves across this now very porous border, that, as the president said yesterday, it will require action in Syria as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Joining us now from Capitol Hill, the New York Democratic congressman, Greg Meeks. He's a member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

Thanks very much, congressman, for joining us.

REP. GREG MEEKS (D), NEW YORK: Good being with you, Wolf.

BLITZER: At a speech at the U.S. military's Central Command down at MacDill Air Force Base in Tampa in the last hour, the president said once again U.S. troops will not be fighting another ground war in Iraq, U.S. combat forces will not be dispatched to Iraq. Is there sort of a disconnect we're hearing from the president on the one side, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs on the other?

MEEKS: Well, I don't think so. Number one, let me just say this about the president. And for me, you know, these kinds of votes are always the toughest votes. But what I make my decision based upon, and the reason why I don't think so is, the president is the president. The others make recommendations to the president. And it's good to know the general and others you don't have just yes-men around him. That they will tell him what they think. But the president ultimately makes the last decision.

And this president has told us, when we went into Libya, that we were only going to do air strikes and work cooperatively with our allies. And he did that. And that's all that happened. This president has shown us that he's been -- had the ability to bring coalitions together as he did when we had a huge coming-together of allies to make sure that we had the sanctions against Iran. So - and so much so that he was able then to pull a coalition together to have the P5 plus 1 to negotiate, trying to make sure that Iran has no nuclear weapons. This president said he was going to try to bring NATO together as we did with the Russia/Ukrainian situation. And we see what took place in Wales just too -- not too long ago. So, to me, thus far, he has said what he meant and he's executed that. And so I don't see where that disconnect is.

BLITZER: So do you - do you -- will you vote for that half a billion dollars to appropriate the funds to arm and train what were called those moderate Syrian rebels? The presidents wants you to vote yea.

MEEKS: Yes, well, let me tell you, I don't -- the alternative that I see is no alternative other than that. I think that we have to do something. And the president is clear that it's not -- and I think most of the American people are clear, they do not want and Gregory Meeks does not want troops on the ground. But everyone says there has to be troops on the ground. So who's going to be on the ground?

Well, clearly we've got a plan, and the president put out a plan, that talks about Iraq dealing with the Kurds and trying -- and we hope that this government comes together in Baghdad so that we can have the Sunnis there working together, so that we can make sure that it's successful in Iraq. Now, if that happens, these folks retreat to Syria. So we can bomb from the air. But if we don't have any troops on the ground there, then what? Do we just let them there and reinvent themselves? No. We've got to take the chance, I think, based upon the strong vetting that needs to be done, of training individuals who have something at stake also. And those are some of the rebels that are on the ground in Syria. There's also dealing with the people in the neighborhood, where they be Saudis, whether they be Jordanians, whether they be Turks, to get them involved. And those are the individuals that have to be the ground troops, not the people from the United States, because we do not want it to appear that it's Muslims -- or Sunni Muslims against the United States. It has to be those individuals that have some real skin in the game.

BLITZER: But it doesn't look like the Turks, the Jordanians, the Saudis, any of the Sunni Arab states, the friends of the United States, moderate Arab countries in that part of the world are ready to send ground troops into Syria to battle Bashar al Assad's regime on the one hand and ISIS, also on enemy of the United States. There are these moderate so-called Syrian rebel forces but they're very weak. And as you know, congressman, there's a lot of concern that whatever weapons the U.S. provides them could wind up in the hands of ISIS.

MEEKS: Well, listen, here's what's happening. You have those individuals that are on the ground, the Syrian rebels, who have a lot at stake. Many of them, they're against ISIS because they don't want ISIS to come into their villages and their places of -- where they live and they don't want the Assad regime. And we know that they have the willingness to fight, but they have not been trained, nor do they have certain equipment.

So what's got to take place here is, we've got to vet them and train them. And I do also believe - and, you know, I just came from the region. I've talked to some of our - well, in the region in Europe, and I look to go to the region very shortly. I'm calling in ambassadors from some of those countries to, you know, because I need to make sure that they're engaged and that they're going to do what they need to do to protect themselves because this is really not just protecting the United States, it's about them protecting themselves. And I don't see any other alternative at this point other than doing nothing than what's been proposed thus far.

BLITZER: Well, I totally agree, they've got to get into the game. They can't just offer some lip service. They say the right things. If they want to get into the game, if they want to use their airpower, and Saudi Arabia has a huge air force, the United Arab Emirates does, Kuwait has a pretty good air force, certainly Jordan, they all -- and Turkey is a NATO ally but Turkey doesn't want to get involved militarily based on everything I'm hearing at all. But if they do, that would be significant. Right now it looks like it's a U.S.-led operation. And you can convince some of these Arab countries and Turkey to get involved, that would be significant. Congressman, I know you're going to work on that over the next few weeks. Thanks very much for joining us.

MEEKS: Good being with you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Gregory Meeks is a member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

Coming up, we're going to get a Republican view on what's going on. We're going to hear how the Republicans are viewing the possible mixed messages coming from the administration when it comes to the dispatch of ground troops into Syria or Iraq. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)