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Secretary Kerry to Testify; ISIS Video; Menendez Interview; Iran's President Denounces ISIS

Aired September 17, 2014 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, there, everyone. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Just moments from now, U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry will be testifying before members of Congress answering questions about President Obama's strategy for the war against ISIS terrorists. And this comes really at this crucial moment as the House gets ready to vote on the president's plan to arm and to train those moderate Syrian rebels. So, stand by because, of course, we'll bring you that testimony live here on CNN.

But while Secretary Kerry is on Capitol Hill today, his boss was at Central Command in Florida, just a little while ago, just to stress the fight against ISIS will not - I repeat will not include U.S. troops fight on the ground, which, if you were with us yesterday and watching all the testimony yesterday from Capitol Hill, that contradicts what the president's own military adviser told a congressional committee Tuesday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I want to be clear, the American forces that have been deployed to Iraq do not and will not have a combat mission. They will support Iraqi forces on the ground as they fight for their own country against these terrorists. As your commander in chief, I will not commit you and the rest of our armed forces to fight another ground war in Iraq.

GEN. MARTIN DEMPSEY, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: As I said in my statement, however, this -- my view at this point is that this coalition is the appropriate way forward. I believe that will prove true. But if it fails to be true and if there are threats to the United States, then I, of course, would go back to the president and make a recommendation that may include the use of U.S. military ground forces.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Again, that was General Dempsey just yesterday.

Now, Congress is also hearing what ISIS could do here in the United States. And you will learn much more about these new threats to the west in just a moment.

But first, more on Secretary of State John Kerry's upcoming testimony here. Let me go to my colleague on The Hill, chief congressional correspondent Dana Bash. And, Dana, as we await, the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations

Committee, Senator Bob Menendez, who you will be snagging an interview with momentarily, why don't we just set up what we are expected to hear from Senator Kerry, if it will be more in line from what really the message President Obama had today in Florida versus what we heard yesterday on The Hill.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's a great question. And the fact that we have to be asking which message we're going to get from the administration is probably not a good sign for the administration, right, Brooke? I mean the fact that, first of all, that John Kerry told our own Elise Labott that the U.S. isn't at war with ISIS, which then the administration had to spend a couple of days backtrack, and more importantly on the military side the chairman of the Joint Chiefs saying pointblank that they believe that they want to have ground troops on the ground as an option. But then the White House - the president himself saying today that he doesn't want that. So, you know, that's the kind of thing that I believe you're going to see the senators on this panel try to dissect, try to get from John Kerry about what exactly the plan is, what exactly the strategy is. Obviously, he's the chief diplomat, so there will be a little bit different questions for him, but more broadly I think that's really what these senators want to know on a bipartisan basis. They want more clarity.

BALDWIN: We'll be watching for it. I see a little activity behind you as they are getting ready for that House Foreign Affairs Committee in which Secretary Kerry will be testifying.

We'll come back to you in just a moment. Dana Bash, I thank you so much.

But let me just head this way because just a short time ago the director of the National Counterterrorism Center testified before Congress at this worldwide threat hearing that ISIS poses a multifaceted threat to the United States. Matthew Olson's words come on the heels of this Hollywood-like trailer, this video by ISIS. It appears to be a terror group's response to President Obama's speech last week in which he explained the U.S. mission to destroy ISIS. You know, as you watch this with me, listen, this is a highly produced video. Very sophisticated. You know, flames are shown engulfing American troops. And they even toss in a clip from President Obama himself at the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Combat troops will not be returning to fight in Iraq.

ON SCREEN TEXT: Coming soon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Coming soon. How about that?

Evan Perez, I'm going straight to you there in Washington, our justice reporter.

So we have this video. Then another layer to the story, we have this arrest. We know authorities arrested this New York store owner who was accused of funding ISIS, trying to send jihadist to Syria to fight the fight. Who is this guy? Tell me about this arrest.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, Brooke, this is exactly the kind of case that Matthew Olson and these officials in Washington have been warning about, which is, you know, you have a guy here who's a shop owner. His name is Mufid Elfgeeh, who is alleged to have been essentially trying to send people, send money and recruit people to go fight with ISIS in Syria. Now, it turns out that two of the people that he was trying to recruit and talk to turned out to be FBI informants undercover who were recording everything he was saying. And so every time he talked about getting guns, because he also talked about carrying out up to 20 shooting attacks here in the United States against returning soldiers from Iraq, and against Shia Muslims in western New York, he also talked about, you know, the need to send money to, you know, to get weapons for ISIS fighters. So all of this was being recorded by the FBI, which has now brought charges against him and he's appearing in court today to answer those charges, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Who or what, Evan, do we know, you know, specifically motivated him? Was there someone? Was it someone from ISIS who was telling him to do this or was he acting on his own volition?

PEREZ: Well, you know, he was acting on his own. And that's what's so interesting about the way ISIS is doing this.

BALDWIN: Huh.

PEREZ: You see the sophisticated video that you just saw showed right there. That's, I mean, that's not stuff that we're using to seeing with some of the previous - the other groups that we've discussed over the last few years. ISIS is doing this very viral marketing campaign essentially and it -- they just let it out there so that people can be recruited -- they recruit themselves essentially. You radicalize yourself online on the Internet. You sit there in your basement. And in this case, this guy had no communication with anyone. He himself took it upon himself to recruit others to try to send out tweets to encourage people to donate money to ISIS and to al Qaeda and that's what ISIS is trying to do and that's what scares a lot of officials because it's really difficult to pinpoint these people, to find them and to try to arrest them before something really goes bad, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Evan Perez, thank you so much, in Washington.

Again, just a reminder, watching the clock. About 25 minutes away from this hearing set to get underway. This is the House Foreign Affairs Committee. The title of the hearing, "The ISIS Threat: Weighing the Obama Administration's Response." Once again, expecting to hear testimony from U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry. And one question being asked, of course, you know, can the president keep his generals in check? Both sides appear to be -- when you look at the different testimonies and the different speeches given, you know, on different pages, is there a reason for that? Also, we are getting a glimpse into what ISIS terrorists are teaching

in schools and the rules the teachers are forced to abide by. Don't miss that. You're watching CNN's special live coverage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: And we're back. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Let's hop back down to Capitol Hill, shall we, because we have our chief congressional correspondent Dana Bash standing by with the chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Senator Bob Menendez.

Dana, the floor is yours.

BASH: Thank you so much, Brooke.

And, Chairman Menendez, thank you very much for having us.

In just about 20 minutes you are going to be taking your chair over here and the former chairman of this committee, now the secretary of state, John Kerry, is going to be over here. You know, we've seen this movie before, for better or worse, right? You were talking to him about Syria exactly a year ago and now here we are.

So my first question is, what do you want to hear from him? But more specifically, how concerned are you as a Democrat about the mixed messages coming from the White House on this strategy? Secretary Kerry told our Elise Labott that the U.S. isn't at war with ISIS, which the administration spent a few days backtracking.

SEN. ROBERT MENENDEZ (D), FOREIGN RELATIONS CHAIRMAN: Well, Dana, I'm convinced that we are at war with ISIS and we need to defeat ISIS before they create the operational capacity to have the ability to conduct a September 11th like attack. That's critical.

Now, what I'm looking for from hearing from the secretary today is specifics. We have the broad outlines of what the president's strategy is to defeat ISIS. Well, id' like to know, what's the term of this engagement? What do we envision? What are the resources that have to come to bear? Our coalition partners, who's playing what senior roles? How much skin in the game do some of the most important senior partners in my mind that have to be, you know, Sunni Muslim countries, engaging in this fight? What's the political end state at the end of this fight?

And, lastly, I am concerned about some of the comments the secretary has made about Iran and our engagement with Iran in this process.

BASH: Well, I want to ask you - I have some other questions about some of the mixed messages, but since you mentioned Iran, do you think that the U.S. is coordinating with Iran to fight ISIS: And if so, are you OK with that?

MENENDEZ: Well, look, I have a problem with engaging Iran in a direct way because Iran has different goals than we have. Iran creates sectarian divisions inside of Iraq, one of the challenges that the Iraqi nation has had. Iran is one of the patrons of Assad and has used their forces to help Assad be propped up. We have a different goal. We want an all-inclusive Iraq, including a Sunni, Shia and Muslim. We want Saddam to leave. So I'm not -- and we are, obviously, negotiating with them over their nuclear weapons program. So I don't get how we engage with Iran in this context, other than to realize that they're in the theater for their own interest.

BASH: Now, there was a big hearing yesterday in the Armed Services Committee. The Pentagon chiefs, General Dempsey, made clear that he believes that, from his perspective, U.S. boots on the ground should remain on the table. The president and the White House, it set off sort of a five-alarm political fire at the White House. The president again today said that is not his intention. Again, mixed messages?

MENENDEZ: Well, I listened to that hearing in the Armed Services Committee and what I heard General Dempsey say is, look, if I feel that there may be some adviser capacity, military adviser capacity that needs to be embedded at some point, I will recommend that to the president. This was not an expression of troops on the ground, troops, rotational troops, battalions coming in of U.S. forces. This was more, as I gathered from his testimony, more the possibility of an advisory role.

BASH: You know but some of your colleagues think that - that we should - that the U.S. should keep the option of boots on the ground on the table just as a strategy to put a little fear in ISIS.

MENENDEZ: Well, look, I'll say this. My goal, and I think the goal of the members of Congress, is the same goal as the administration, we must defeat ISIS. At the end of the day, we're going to have to listen. That's why today's hearing is so important. And others that will follow on that I intend to hold both an intelligence briefing and what not as to how do we achieve that. And you want to achieve that goal. Now, if you can achieve it simply by air strikes and the use of other forces, Iraqi, Peshmerga, moderate vetted Syrian revels, so be it. I'd rather see that. But we have to think about what is necessary to defeat ISIS.

BASH: In a couple of hours, the House is going to vote on a measure to authorize arming and training Syrian rebels. But that, assuming it passes, it will be folded into a bill to fund the government. What it means in all practical purposes is that you, as senators, aren't going to have a vote on that, a specific vote on that. I've got to tell you, that looks a little cowardly. What do you think?

MENENDEZ: Well, first of all, a vote on the CR is going to be a vote to include. I mean that's the major provision of the CR, other than to keep the government open. It's going to be looked at as a vote in supporting. And many of my colleagues are thinking whether they'll cast a yea or nay vote based on the provision of funding the - a moderate, vetted rebels.

BASH: But this is not - but it is - but it is a major policy issue on a major, you know, problem that the president has laid out.

MENENDEZ: (INAUDIBLE) -

BASH: But it will be tucked into something, like to fund the government.

MENENDEZ: I get it. And I'm - and I'm ready and willing to. I voted for a year ago on this very same committee to do exactly what we're doing, maybe for different purposes at the time was to defeat Assad. I'm ready to cast that vote independently or as part of the CR myself. But this is why these hearings are going to be important and why I believe, at the end of the day, we're going to have a prolonged engagement to defeat ISIL, then, at the end of the day, we need an authorization for the use of military force, which comes before this committee.

BASH: And you are going to be working on that. You already are working on that. But you're not going to put it forward until after the election, correct?

MENENDEZ: Well, it has nothing to do with the election. This is all about getting it right, not getting it fast. I don't want to have another 2001 or 2003 authorization for the use of military force that has been used 13 years later in four different parts of the world. I don't want to give an open ended blank check to this or any other president. And that's why getting the AUMF, the authorization for the use of force right, is more important than doing it fast.

BASH: But Congress is going to leave to go campaign. The Senate, maybe tomorrow. The House, maybe Friday. So why not stay here? I mean it - with -- if Congress is just leaving instead of staying and working on the kind of authorization you say is so necessary it's just like why not - why are they going home to try to keep their jobs instead of staying here to do their jobs?

MENENDEZ: Well, we're - well, I think we're going to use this period of time in October to go ahead and work with colleagues to find a strong bipartisan authorization for the use of military force, but also one that doesn't create an open ended check for this presidency or any other president to send our sons and daughters into harm's way without the Congress' approval. And there will be a vote on this and it will take place before the Congress and I fully expect that we will have an AUMF first in the committee and then on the Senate floor and moving forward.

BASH: If I might, just one quick important policy question. John McCain in the hearing at the Armed Services yesterday was trying to get an answer on whether or not it should be the U.S. policy in this mission to go after Assad. If Assad targets successfully the Syrian Free Army that the U.S. is helping, should the U.S. then go after Assad? Do you think that should be part of the strategy and mission?

MENENDEZ: Well, what I heard General Dempsey, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff say, is that if we do our training right, the moderate vetted Syrian rebels will be able to defend themselves against any attacks by Assad. But at the end of the day, from my perspective, I have always been an advocate, which is why I passed an AUMF for the use of military force when Assad was using chemical weapons with my colleagues here on the committee. Why I also passed arming the vetted Syrian rebels a year ago. So I believe very much that Assad must go and that it is in the national interest of the United States to see that happen.

BASH: Chairman Menendez, thank you very much.

MENENDEZ: Thank you.

BASH: We'll be watching the hearing starting in about - about ten minutes. Thank you very much.

And, Brooke, back to you.

BALDWIN: Chairman, thank you. Dana, thank you both very much.

And just interesting, as Chairman Menendez is calling to hear specifics, we've heard the broad strategy from the president. You know, what will we hear from the U.S. secretary of state, John Kerry, as he testifies before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, what will we hear as far as terms of engagement, coalition partners, what does the end of this look like, what is the role with Iran? We'll listen for all of that coming up live in a matter of minutes.

Also next, we will talk to someone who says any military action the U.S. takes against ISIS will only backfire and actually lead to more ISIS members, more turmoil and an open ended battle. So what is his solution to stopping ISIS? We'll ask him, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You know, we were just talking to Dana Bash, our chief congressional correspondent, and she was speaking with chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Bob Menendez. And one of the questions as far as the fight against ISIS goes is what kind of coordination, if anything, there should be between the United States and Iran when it comes to taking the fight to ISIS. So speaking of Iran, and, Elise Labott, let me just bring you in because there's just been this news that's come out from the president of Iran, President Hassan Rouhani, saying what?

ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, basically, Brooke, he told NBC News that ISIS is trying to kill all humanity. When he tries to kill a certain group of people, like the Shia, for instance, then that means that he's killing all humanity. And he just said this in an interview with NBC News. "The killing and beheading of innocent people in fact is a matter of shame for them and is the matter of concern and sorry for all the human and all the mankind."

And this just raises a lot of questions here, Brooke. The U.S. and Iran have some converging interests and they've kind of been dancing around each other about whether they should cooperate. Now you've seen in Iraq there have been parallel operations. On one hand, the U.S. is launching air strikes against ISIS, and on another hand you have Iranian troops on the ground in Iraq also trying to help out the Iraqi government. And so the question is, will Iran be part of the coalition? Secretary

Kerry, other U.S. officials say no, Iran's role in Syria, having troops on the ground, contributing to the civil war there means that they're part of the problem. But a lot of people think, if you're going to have a whole of region solution to this problem against ISIS, that Iran cannot be ignored, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Can I just ask you, while I have you, and to use your word "dancing," you know, how much dancing, if any, has been done even in this run-up between Iran and the U.S.?

LABOTT: Well, there's been a lot and there have been some reports that the U.S. has reached out to Iran and Iran for help in combatting ISIS and Iran said no. And then there are other reports that Iran has made overtures that wants to be part of the problem, could they have participated in this conference yesterday in Paris of coalition countries. So right now nobody's talking directly. It's a little bit through intermediaries. But we've seen in the past that the U.S. and Iran have talked when there are issues of common interests, for instance, in Afghanistan. They have talked on Syria. And so I think we need to wait and see what happens at the U.N. General Assembly.

Last year you had President Obama and president, this new president, President Rouhani, at the time, you know, reach out to each other. You know, they talked on the phone. Will there be a little bit more of an overture? I think that with everything going on in the world, it would be a little bit foolhardy to think that the U.S. and Iran don't have things to talk about regarding ISIS. They will be having these nuclear talks. So far those have been isolated to just that one issue. But, clearly, a lot of issues between the U.S. and Iran to deal with.

BALDWIN: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Elise Labott, thank you so much.

A quick break. Once again, we're waiting for U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry to testify on Capitol Hill moments away. Stay with me.

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