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CNN NEWSROOM

NFL Under Fire Again; ISIS Threat; Hillary Clinton in Iowa

Aired September 15, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Here we go. Top of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

We begin with these frightening revelations from a New Jersey murder case. A man who is accused of shooting and killing four people is calling at least one of these killings part of this, quote, unquote, "bloody crusade." According to documents, 29-year-old Ali Mohammed Brown (ph) said he considered it his mission to murder 19-year-old college student Brendan Tevlin as an act of vengeance for what calls innocent lives lost in Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria.

But court papers show, after Brown's arrest, he also confessed to killing three other men in Washington State. He is charged with all four deaths, but people are pressing forward and they're asking these questions. Could this be a case of terrorism here on U.S. soil?

Let's delve into all of this with Mark Di Ionno with "The Star Ledger" and CNN senior legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Jeffrey Toobin.

But, Mark, to you first, since you have done all the reporting on this, beginning with what we know about Brown, this notebook that investigators found with jihadist writings. Tell me about that.

MARK DI IONNO, "THE STAR-LEDGER": He was arrested in the woods in a very wealthy area of West Orange, New Jersey, and with him was this notebook with these jihadist writings.

I guess my big question is if he was on a jihadist terrorist spree, he had access to kill many, many, many more people and didn't. It seems to me like these were all crimes of opportunity, robberies and carjackings and then once he's in custody he tries to give it a noble cause.

BALDWIN: That's sort of the question. What kind of connections? Why would he want to exact vengeance? Does he have any sort of tie to any sort of terrorist organization in the past. What more do we know?

DI IONNO: The two of the men he killed in Seattle were young gay men. One's name was a Ahmed Said. He was a Muslim. And he met them on a gay hookup Web site and shot them in cold blood in a car.

The third Seattle victim was shot 10 times in a drive-by. Brendan Tevlin was shot on an incredibly messy, rainy night in a remote -- in a suburban area, but not a well-visited area. To imagine this guy was out there as part of some jihad terror spree standing in the rain for hours waiting for a male victim to drive by just defies logic.

BALDWIN: It's not adding up.

DI IONNO: It doesn't add up to me. I think, once he's in custody, he wants to justify his actions and give them some noble cause.

He was in a carjacking incident in Point Pleasant, New Jersey, and he ran away because he couldn't drive a stick shift. And so this is what we're dealing with. I'm not sure there's any greater evil mind to it.

BALDWIN: OK.

Jeff Toobin, throwing a lot of cold water on maybe some motives here. What do you think?

(CROSSTALK)

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, cold water, yes. But the jihad spirit is out there in the world. Individuals can do terrible things by themselves in the name of it.

When I started following this story, I thought of the Tsarnaev brothers in Boston who at least at this point we don't think were connected to any larger terrorist group, but they apparently...

(CROSSTALK)

TOOBIN: Sorry.

BALDWIN: They were inspired by events overseas.

TOOBIN: Right. And they in almost a similar words talked about Afghanistan and Iraq and violence against Muslims.

And if they are guilty -- and certainly the evidence against them looks very strong -- it was an independent terrorist act. This too could be an independent terrorist act. Evil people find motive where they want, but it certainly doesn't suggest al Qaeda as a group was involved.

BALDWIN: Right. So far, as far as charges go, murder.

DI IONNO: Right, right, murder, your basic run-of-the-mill urban murder.

BALDWIN: But could they, based upon what we know of the Tsarnaevs and based upon other examples, at what point would something get ratcheted up to domestic terror?

TOOBIN: I'm not sure. There would probably have to be connections to someone else, some other person involved in a network. If you are being charged with murder in New Jersey, you're going to go away for a long time, as long as -- probably as long as if you were to call it terrorism.

I think what people are obviously most concerned about is, is there a larger threat out there? And I think this story indicates no. There's not.

BALDWIN: OK. Jeff and Mark. Thank you both very much. I appreciate it. We will stay on it and see if we find out anything more about this guy. Appreciate it very much.

DI IONNO: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Now this family in Utah here. They say there's one reason and one reason only their son was shot and killed by police: race. Police say he had a sword, was lunging at them, but an autopsy suggests that is not true and now the town is facing a fight over a case that reminds some people of what happened pretty recently in Ferguson, Missouri.

Also ahead, the NFL banned Ray Rice after video of him hitting his then girlfriend in an elevator was exposed for the world to see. Soon, he could file an appeal. And now this other player accused of abuse over the way he disciplined his child is giving an incredibly deep personal statement about the case. We just read it for you.

We have to have a much bigger conversation about what Adrian Peterson is now saying coming up on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You are watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Officers shot and kill a man. Police say he was on the attack. Eyewitnesses say reportedly he was on the run, but according to the family's attorney, unlike Michael Brown's killing in Ferguson, Missouri, a private autopsy of Darrien Hunt shows clear evidence against the police.

Hunt's family has ordered the procedure after two officers in Saratoga Springs, Utah, killed the 22-year-old man Wednesday.

The family's attorney says the autopsy found police shot Hunt six times from behind.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RANDALL EDWARDS, ATTORNEY FOR VICTIM'S FAMILY: The shot that killed him hit him right in the back. There is some question as to what he was doing, where he was going. Obviously, he was running away at the time that he was shot and killed.

SUSAN HUNT, MOTHER OF VICTIM: And then if he's running, from all of the eyewitnesses, why you had to put in more bullets.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Mom's questions here.

But Saratoga Springs police say that he was wielding a sword and -- quote, unquote -- "lunging" toward the officers with the sword, at which time Mr. Hunt was shot.

With me now, CNN legal analyst Sunny Hostin and correspondent Dan Simon.

And, Dan, to you first. Just hearing from the mother, she believes race absolutely played into the death of her son. Tell me what she's saying.

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, hi, Brooke.

In her mind, she thinks it has to be race because there's no other explanation for it in her mind especially in light of that autopsy that you just talked about, that independent autopsy, which apparently shows that the shots were fired into the suspect's back.

Let's also talk about the fact that the mom is white. Perhaps that plays a little bit into the thinking in terms of all of this and Saratoga Springs is also predominantly white. In terms of the sword, she says that this is a sword that wasn't dangerous. It was more like a toy or a souvenir she says she bought at an Asian gift shop. She says the only reason why her son was probably carrying it is because she thinks he was on his way to a Panda Express restaurant to apply for a job and perhaps by having that Asian souvenir, it may have impressed the people at Panda Express.

But let's listen to the mom's very powerful statements about why she thinks this was racially motivated. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: I said, what does he look like? And you know what they said to me? He's brown. He has an afro. Really? But did he have on a red shirt?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIMON: Well, the implication here in that sound bite is that when police described the individual, they only talked about his racial makeup. They didn't talk about, for instance, what he may have been wearing.

Prosecutors, Brooke, we should point out once again emphatically denying that race played a role whatsoever. They put out a statement. It says -- quote -- "There is currently no indication that race played any role in the confrontation."

And, remember, Brooke, police are saying that he had that sword. He was using it in a threatening manner. He lunged at them and that's the only reason why police say they shot him -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: OK. Dan, thank you. Stay with me.

And, Sunny, let me just bring you into this and turn and face you.

So, this obviously brings up similar questions, as we saw in Ferguson and in other incidents in which according to certain autopsies, in this case the independent one, the police were shooting this individual from behind. SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes. And as the mother of a brown

boy, I really just empathize with this mom. No mom should have to deal with something like this.

But I think the question is when is it OK for police officers to use excessive force, deadly force in shooting someone?

(CROSSTALK)

HOSTIN: There are only two instances when that is OK. I'm looking at notes because I want to make it very clear, because this has been an issue in the Michael Brown shooting. Right? One is defense of life. If the police officers feel threatened themselves or that the public somehow is being threatened, if someone is lunging at them with some sort of weapon, yes, then you can use deadly force.

The only other time, second time, is this fleeing suspect rule, fleeing felon, which we have heard. So if there's a suspect who committed a violent crime, a violent crime, and his escape or her escape would pose a serious threat to the officer or the public, then an officer can shoot.

An officer cannot shoot -- the Supreme Court has made it very clear. The Constitution makes it very clear, Brooke, that an officer cannot shoot an unarmed nonviolent suspect who poses no risk. So when I see this fact pattern where someone may have been shot in the back, that someone must have been committing a violent crime and pose a threat to society, the public, for that officer to be justified in shooting the person.

These cases are very case and fact-specific, but it does seem odd to me that if he was running away with this fake sword that deadly force would be appropriate, unless the sword perhaps didn't look fake. Maybe the sword looked to be a real sword and was there a violent crime committed with that sword?

BALDWIN: You know something else in looking at this story and in other stories we have looked at even before Michael Brown, the Kendrick Johnson death out of Georgia from the last year, a lot of these families now are hiring these independent pathologists because they're just not trusting police or the county. What does that say to you?

HOSTIN: That's fascinating. I think oftentimes families do feel that law enforcement and the medical examiner's office are working together.

BALDWIN: Biased.

HOSTIN: They're biased. So we have seen this interested trend where they are hiring not only attorneys to represent them sort of like the Trayvon Martin case. I think that started at that trend, but now also these independent medical examiners, like Dr. Michael Baden, who is very well known.

I think it's unfortunately coming from a place of this lack of trust for law enforcement. And it's sad.

BALDWIN: It is. Thank you so much for coming on and working through that. We will see what more comes out. Just thinking about this mother and this family losing her child as she shouldn't have to.

Sunny, thank you. Dan Simon, thank you so much.

Coming up, much more on our breaking news. This NFL star accused of child abuse has just released this multiparagraph statement, a very emotional and personal statement on punishing his child. His team is now responding. We have to have a big old conversation about this, folks. That's coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: All right, indicted Minnesota Vikings Player Adrian Peterson is heading back to the field.

The team announced today that the star running back will practice with the team this week and play against the Saints on Sunday. Last week, a Texas grand jury indicted the 29 year old on child abuse charges for what you see here.

These are the marks, according to prosecutors, on his 4-year-old child after spanking him with a switch. Peterson released a statement this afternoon. We read the whole thing for you earlier.

I'm just going to get to the last couple graphs. But basically he is saying he never wanted to be a distraction to the Vikings program, never intended to harm his son.

But this is really the crux of the statement. I'm just going to read the whole thing. "I have to live with the fact that when I disciplined my son the way I was disciplined as a child, I caused an injury that I never intended or thought would happen. I know that many people disagree with the way I disciplined my child. I also understand after meeting with a psychologist that there are other alternative ways of disciplining a child that may be more appropriate."

He goes on: "I have learned a lot and have had to reevaluate how I discipline my son going forward. But deep in my heart, I have always believed I could have been one of those kids that was lost in the streets without the discipline instilled in me by my parents and other relatives. I have always believed that the way my parents disciplined me has a great deal to do with the success I have enjoyed as a man. I love my son and I will continue to become a better parent and learn from any mistakes I ever make."

He goes on: "I am not a perfect son. I am not a perfect husband. I am not a perfect parent, but I am, without a doubt, not a child abuser. I am someone that disciplined his child and did not intend to cause him any injury. No one can understand the hurt that I feel for my son and for the harm I caused him. My goal is always to teach my son right from wrong and that's what I tried to do that day." And finally in his final graph, he writes: "I accept the fact that people feel very strongly about this issue and what they think about my conduct. Regardless of what others think, however, I love my son very much and I will continue to try to become a better father and person."

Adrian Peterson just released the statement. His arrest ignited this massive firestorm about parenting and spanking and really the thin line between discipline abuse and parental rights.

Let have a big talk about this, shall we, with noted psychiatrist and Harvard Medical School professor Dr. Alvin Poussaint, and CNN digital correspondent editor at large and Kelly Wallace. And, Sunny Hostin, we kept you here. You were fired up during the commercial break, so we said, don't move. We got you as well.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: So welcome to all of you.

First, just, Dr. Poussaint, let me just begin with you. Is it OK for parents to spank kids if that is what happened to them when they were growing up, that's what they're familiar with?

DR. ALVIN POUSSAINT, HARVARD MEDICAL SCHOOL: I think that's one of the reasons. They raise the children the way they were raised and if they felt that spanking helped them when they were growing up, they're likely to use it on their children.

That's one of the problems with spanking and using violence, is you perpetuate the cycle over generations. Many Americans believe in spanking as part of raising children, even though there is so much evidence in fact that it's likely to be harmful, rather than helpful, in raising children, and often leads to child abuse, like in this situation right here.

That is, once you start hitting your kid, and you're very angry and you lose control, that's when you create an injury, cuts and bruises, and that's when it crosses a line into child abuse that has to be turned over to child protective agencies.

That's what happened in this situation. It doesn't matter what your intent is. It doesn't matter what your intent is. If you injure the child because you were -- quote -- "disciplining him or her," then it's going to be seen as child abuse and treated in that way and you suffer the consequences.

And the child hopefully is helped, because being cut and bruised, if that's what has happened, is certainly not in a child's interest in terms of changing his behavior or helping that child. In fact, you're damaging that child.

BALDWIN: Let me let these two mothers jump in on this, because, clearly, when you read Adrian Peterson statement, I think one of the lines that really jumped out at me is he feels like he would have been one of those lost kids in the streets had he not been disciplined as a child and he's become this success in his eyes today, so he's just continuing that cycle.

HOSTIN: He's continuing the cycle of violence.

I would suggest to Adrian that he succeeded in spite of the beating, not because of it. That's the bottom line. We know so much more now about child-rearing, about child abuse. And it is clear to me and I think to everyone he's saying he's not a child abuser. Well, guess what? You are a child abuser.

What's striking to me, having prosecuted so many of these cases, is the notion that you can strike a child, you can assault a child -- spanking is assault -- and that is not a criminal act. Yet if you did the same thing to an adult, an adult, that is considered an assault. It's considered an unwanted touching.

So we need I think as a society to say even spanking is wrong. It is criminal. You can discipline your child in so many ways, right, Kelly, so many ways. Even the American Academy of Pediatrics has said negative consequences. You do not spank.

KELLY WALLACE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right.

But I think I was struck by that same line where he said that his success in a way he holds to the discipline he had. You hear a lot of big online reaction to the story, yes, tremendous number of people that say, oh, my gosh, this is awful, but a large number of people who say, you know what? I had this kind of discipline as a kid and this is the kind of discipline that kept me in line.

The other thing he said which was thank interesting which was after meeting with a psychologist or talking to a psychologist, he has more awareness now about these other alternatives when it comes to disciplining his children and this is where awareness is key, that we need to get more messaging out about how dangerous spanking can be and what are more effective ways to discipline your child.

BALDWIN: I have been hearing lots of different conversations about this today, and, in a sense, it's sort of like it an old conversation that has brought to the light once again, but what's been unique is that even like the likes of Charles Barkley bringing in the notion of black community -- and I'm totally paraphrasing -- but basically he saying, listen, if this was against the law in the black community, a lot of parents in the South would be in prison for doing this.

HOSTIN: But that doesn't make it right. My father is from Georgia. My father is a Southern gentleman.

BALDWIN: I'm from Georgia.

(CROSSTALK)

HOSTIN: And he would tell me stories about having to be sent outside to get the switch, and not a small one, he would say, his mom would say.

BALDWIN: Sure. HOSTIN: And he feels that he succeed because of that, because she was a single mom.

But I wasn't spanked, because my mom as a Northeasterner, as a woman, as a educator, she's a teacher, knew that that was the wrong way to go. I don't spank, especially because of the child abuse cases that I have prosecuted. I am just surprised.

I think it is something that's cultural. You see it in the African- American community. Quite frankly, I have heard people in my community say spare -- quote scriptures. Spare the rod and spoil the child. And they say, if it's OK with the Bible, then it must be OK.

But it just really is so antiquated and it just isn't OK. I don't even think you should spank for discipline.

BALDWIN: Doctor, Doctor, Doctor, I just want to hear you back in on this, because you know, listen, we all come from our different paths and lives and perspectives.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Go ahead.

POUSSAINT: Spanking is very embedded in America, and it's not just the black community. It's all of the communities in America, including newcomers to America.

And I think we're different in that way than many other countries. You know, 35 countries ban corporal punishment in the world, 35 countries.

BALDWIN: How about that?

POUSSAINT: One of them is not America. And the other thing is we have kind of institutionalized corporal punishment by permitting it in schools.

There are 19 states that permit paddling of schoolchildren for discipline.

BALDWIN: Wow.

POUSSAINT: And could you imagine that they beat the children for not learning or doing -- whatever reason, left to the judgment of the teacher or the principal?

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: But if this is in our nation's DNA, Doctor, how does it stop?

POUSSAINT: It stops because you keep trying and trying to educate. I have spent a lot of my career around trying to prevent corporal punishment. But I go to certain communities and they attack you with all the arguments that you have been bringing up: It's good for them. It will turn them -- it will build their character.

You even have some people -- and you get this in domestic violence cases -- saying, well, I really don't love my children or I really don't love my wife if I don't beat her.

That gets to be bizarre. But I have heard that type of talk as well, as if violence itself is something very positive, when in fact it's something very, very negative, and these children, I think they're much more likely to become antisocial. They are more likely to be angry. they're more likely to distrust authority. They're more likely to suffer from depression and anxiety because of being so- called whipped or beaten by their parents and anyone else.

And it also lead to fatalities. Let's not forget that. It's just not abuse and bruises, but some of these children are actually killed because of the abuse.

HOSTIN: That's right.

BALDWIN: Wow. You are the professional, sir. Thank you so much. Alvin Poussaint at Harvard, this is your area of expertise. Thank you so much for joining us.

And Kelly Wallace and Sunny Hostin, ladies, thank you so much. It's an important conversation we will just keep on -- keep having.

HOSTIN: Yes.

BALDWIN: Now to this. The biggest power couple in politics rolled into Iowa over the weekend.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I'm back.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Hillary Clinton in the spotlight, but off to the side, see that elbow right there? That's her husband. Could the former president overshadow her on the campaign trail as well?

And David Haines' family wants to remember him like this, not in that orange jumpsuit on his knees next to his ISIS executioner. By watching that video, is the U.S. giving ISIS precisely what it wants?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)