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LEGAL VIEW WITH ASHLEIGH BANFIELD

How the Ray Rice Scandal Impacts Fans; A Look at Roger Goodell's Time as NFL Commissioner; Killer T.J. Lane Recaptured After Escape

Aired September 12, 2014 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Why all the love for Ray Rice you ask? That's coming up.

He shot and killed three students at his high school two years ago and last night T.J. Lane, a teenage killer with zero remorse, escaped from prison.

Olympian Oscar Pistorius was found negligent in his model girlfriend's death, but not guilty of murder. So how long will the judge lock up the blade runner?

Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield. Welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

Thursday night football in Baltimore and forget for a minute the suits at the NFL and the sports reporters and the investigators and the politicians and the special interest groups. Last night, in the heart of Ravens' country, we got to see the Ray Rice domestic violence scandal, how it was affecting the people who really matter in pro sports, the fans. Look at that. Ray Rice jerseys almost everywhere you look. And look who is wearing them, women. The CNN staff who were there say that most of the number 27 jerseys that were spotted in the stands were in fact being worn by women.

You're about to hear from some of the female fans who say leave Ray Rice alone. It's between his wife and him. And here's a simple message, on a temporarily altered Ray Rice jersey "b nice." Clearly many Ravens fans are striking a softer tone on the Rice situation than the NFL executives who sent him packing. In fact, they don't seem to be angry, not necessarily at the man who accused of viciously beating his wife up - his fiance at the time - beating her in the elevator. Sports guy Andy Scholes was at the game last night. Have a look.

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Ashleigh, it was a sell- out crowd at M&T Bank Stadium for the game last night and the fans were as loud as ever. But, of course, Ray Rice, still on everyone's mind. You know, this story seems to take another turn ever few hours. Roger Goodell continues to be under fire. Many people don't believe what he's saying.

And amidst all the controversy, the Ravens, they had to get back to work.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): Here's the running back.

SCHOLES (voice-over): The Baltimore Ravens taking the field for the first time since their teammate, Ray Rice, was let go amidst a domestic violence controversy. In a new report, four sources tell ESPN that Rice met with NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell back in June admitting he punched his then fiance, Janay Palmer, in a casino elevator months before TMZ posted the surveillance video. On Tuesday, Goodell told CBS News that Rice's account of what happened was ambiguous compared to what the videos show.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What was ambiguous about her laying unconscious on the floor being dragged out by her feet?

ROGER GOODELL, NFL COMMISSIONER: There was nothing ambiguous about that. That was the result that we saw. We did not know what led up to that.

SCHOLES: The number of current and former players calling for Goodell to be held accountable is growing by the day.

JONATHAN VILMA, FORMER NEW ORLEANS SAINTS LINEBACKER: Roger Goodell failed to act, plain and simple. He failed to act. There should be consequences.

SCHOLES: And former Philadelphia Eagles running back Brian Westbrook tweeting, "being a leader is not a part-time job. If Goodell holds the players to a high standard, he should be held to that same high standard."

Mere hours before Thursday's night kickoff, CBS officials nixed a prerecorded Rihanna opener considering the singer's own history of domestic abuse at the hands of ex-Chris Brown. Instead, devoting time to a discussion about the abuse scandal rocking the NFL, culminating with James Brown making a powerful plea.

JAMES BROWN, CBS COMMENTATOR: According to domestic violence experts, more than three women per day lose their lives at the hands of their partners. So this is yet another call to mend, to stand up and take responsibility for their thoughts, their words, their deeds. And as Dion says, to give help or to get help because our silence is defining and (INAUDIBLE).

SCHOLES: After defeating the Steelers, the Ravens voiced their support for their ex-teammate.

DENNIS PITTA, BALTIMORE RAVENS TIGHT END: He's always been unbelievable in the community here. And people have really grown to love him and they support him, as do we. We acknowledge the mistake he made.

TORREY SMITH, BALTIMORE RAVENS WIDE RECEIVER: Ray is still a great guy, you know. He made a mistake. You take away those two minutes of his life and you look at a model citizen, a model man.

SCHOLES: Fans also showing loyalty to Rice by wearing his jersey. BOBBY MCDONALD, BALTIMORE RAVENS FAN: I stick behind Ray Rice 100

percent. And I will rock this jersey every day until he is back on that field.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a situation that is between his wife and himself and I feel that everybody should leave him alone and let them deal with the situation.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCHOLES: And, Ashleigh, I have to say, I was shocked to see so many Ravens' fans wearing their Ray Rice jerseys last night. I mean there were hundreds of them. And surprising, most of them were women. And the ones I talked to, they were much more mad at the NFL and Roger Goodell than they were at Ray Rice.

BANFIELD: Thank you, Andy Scholes. Great work from you. And you heard that woman who said, it's an issue between him and her. It's not. It's a crime. That's why the community gets involved in crimes. You can't punch someone in a bar and then have it between the two guys. It's a crime.

Look, I know it's early in this process against Ray Rice, but the accusations are flying. The video evidence is out there. And in the court of public opinion, a lot of people have convicted Rice. And a lot of people have left him off the hook, too. Alex Ferrer is television's "Judge Alex." He's here to talk through this. And also with me is my sports commentator LZ Granderson from ESPN.

LZ, let me start with you, first and foremost, about this new information that's come out to ESPN about the notion that a source had said that Rice himself told the commissioner he punched his fiance. That it wasn't ambiguous at all the way the commissioner had actually articulated. How does this change anything going forward for the commissioner?

LZ GRANDERSON, CNN COMMENTATOR: Well, I think there are several different layers to that question that you're asking. Number one is, does this information change the views of the owners of Roger Goodell because, at the end of the day, he answers to them. And if the owners still have his back, it doesn't really matter how the fans feel about Roger Goodell. As long as the fans continue to support the NFL, as long as the sponsors don't get nervous, then the owners aren't going to get concerned and they're not going to do anything to Roger Goodell. It may make him look bad for a moment, but at the end of the day, the Super Bowl is the most watched television event in the history of American television. And I think you can expect that to be the same next year.

So, then, number two becomes the players themselves. How do they want to go forward in terms of Roger Goodell and his authority as commissioner? Will they respect what he has to say? And if not, how will they challenge him based upon how he mishandled the situation?

BANFIELD: Well, and some of the ratings information has just come out and CBS blew the doors off of Thursday night with the name last night. GRANDERSON: So there you have it.

BANFIELD: Judge Alex, you heard that woman that was interviewed on her way to the game saying this is an issue between Mr. and Mrs. Rice. Is there any other crime that you know of in your long career in American juris prudence where somebody would say that assault, that, you know, aggravated assault, that murder, that anything is an issue between those two parties?

JUDGE ALEX FERRER, FORMER FLORIDA ELEVENTH CIRCUIT JUDGE: No. No. And it shouldn't be. Nobody should be saying that. This is a crime, as you pointed out rightly. A violent crime. I understand some of what they're trying to say because they point out, she struck him and she shouldn't have struck him. And that's true. And had this been a man in the elevator with Ray Rice, even a small man who took a swing at him and Ray Rice knocked him unconscious, nobody would bat an eye. Everybody would say it's self-defense. But we expect more than that from relationships. From somebody you're married to and you love, then just violent retribution. And when you're a football player who works out and trains and builds himself up and you have so many other options and your wife take a swing at you, as wrong as it is -

BANFIELD: Or your husband takes as swing at you?

FERRER: Or your husband takes a swing at you.

BANFIELD: Either way.

FERRER: He could have restrained her. He could have grabbed her hands. He could have bear hugged her. He could have done so many other things than knock her out.

BANFIELD: There's another famous elevator video of an assault underway and it was Jay-z who did nothing while his sister-in-law -

FERRER: Exactly.

BANFIELD: You know, wailed on him.

LZ, real quickly, in the game -- during the game, the locker room conversation, a few of those players who used to play alongside of Rice said, you know, come on, this was just two minutes of his life and this was such a small, you know, tiny snapshot of a moment, it's not him. But does anybody in your business see how you could say that about Oscar Pistorius. When you fire a gun, it's just a split second of your life, or when you assault someone or kill someone, it's just a split second of your life, but there's consequences for that split second of your life.

GRANDERSON: That's why this is so much larger than Ray Rice. This is the cultural conversation that needs to be happenings and needs to continue to happen. If we put too much of this conversation on Ray Rice and Roger Goodell, then we lose an opportunity to talk about what's really affecting us culturally. Because, at the end of the day, there have been 56 domestic violence-related arrests in the NFL under Roger Goodell's watch. We did not see or hear any outcry over the previous 55. That should tell you something. That's the problem.

BANFIELD: Yes.

GRANDERSON: When one in four women suffer domestic violence in this country, that's a problem. So we need to be having a larger conversation and not just one about Ray Rice.

BANFIELD: Well, you're right, LZ, there's a couple of players who are either on the field right now or about to step onto the field who are either adjudicated or waiting appeal or have had the accusations against them and one of them has actually even pleaded and it hasn't had the effect.

LZ, it's always good to talk to you and your network has done a good job on this with the big break. Thanks, sir. Appreciate it.

GRANDERSON: Thank you.

BANFIELD: Alex, if you could stay around. I've got a couple of other questions for you.

FERRER: Sure.

BANFIELD: Thank you for that.

You know, Roger Goodell has spent his whole life working to become the NFL commissioner and now it's possible he could lose everything because of, you know, how he's handled this Ray Rice controversy. Is "I'm sorry" enough for the NFL to keep him?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: You know, we're talking about the NFL's controversy in this still fluid situation spinning around former Baltimore Ravens' star running back Ray Rice. But for a second, let's focus on Rice's boss, pro football commissioner Roger Goodell, the man who first benched Ray Rice for just first two games but then ultimately decided to suspend him indefinitely. Now eight years running the NFL, Goodell actually started as an intern. The Ray Rice scandal is just the latest of a few high-profile storms that he has weathered during his tenure. Here's Gary Tuchman.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The former NFL commissioner, Paul Tagliabue, passed the baton in 2006.

PAUL TAGLIABUE, FORMER NFL COMMISSIONER: Roger, congratulations.

TUCHMAN: And Roger Goodell began his tenure as commissioner of America's most popular team sport. NFL owners believed he was calm and intelligent. And early on he spoke these relevant words.

ROGER GOODELL, NFL COMMISSIONER: We are in a position where people are watching and you're in a different world right now and you have to be responsible and you are going to be held accountable. TUCHMAN: And now the question is being asked, has he been responsible?

Has he been accountable?

NORAH O'DONNELL, CBS NEWS: The question becomes, did the NFL drop the ball or was the NFL willfully ignorant about what was on this tape?

GOODELL: Well, we certainly didn't know what was on the tape, but we have been very open and honest, and I have also, from two weeks ago when I acknowledged that we didn't get this right. That's my responsibility and I'm accountable for that.

TUCHMAN: Goodell has had his hands full during his eight years as commissioner when it comes to discipline. Perhaps the most well-known case involves quarterback Michael Vick, who was accused of operating an illegal dogfighting ring in which underperforming dogs were abused, tortured and killed. They pleaded guilty and went to prison.

GOODELL: Michael did an egregious thing. He has paid a very significant price for that.

TUCHMAN: Goodell allowed Vick back in the NFL. He currently plays for the New York Jets.

Then there's Pittsburgh Steelers veteran quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, accused of sexual assault in Nevada in 2009, in Georgia in 2010. No criminal charges were filed, but Commissioner Goodell said he violated the NFL's personal conduct policy and the quarterback was suspended for the first four games of the 2010 season.

GOODELL: You don't have to be convicted of a crime. You're going to be held accountable to that standard. And we expect them to meet that.

TUCHMAN: Currently, other players accused of abuse and convicted of abuse are on active NFL rosters. So as people continue to watch the elevator video, it is making blood boil.

Twelve Democrats on the House of Representatives judiciary committee have sent a letter to Goodell demanding the highest level of transparency concerning the investigation of the Ray Rice incident.

And 16 female U.S. senators have also sent Goodell a letter in which they say they are shocked and disgusted by the elevator video and want the NFL to have a real zero-tolerance policy.

There are also calls for Goodell's resignation.

TERRY O'NEILL, NOW, PRESIDENT: We're insisting that Roger Goodell must resign and we want a truly independent investigator with full authority and full power to do a top to bottom review of all of the domestic violence, sexual assault, dating violence and stalking incidents within the NFL community.

TUCHMAN: By any standard, this is a crisis for the National Football League and its commissioner but no team owner has spoken out against Goodell which seems to indicate they trust him as of now.

NORA O'DONNEL, CBS NEWS: Do you feel like your job is on the line?

GOODELL: No, I'm used to criticism, and I'm used to that. Every day, I have to earn my stripes.

TUCHMAN: At least in public, Roger Goodell appears calm, just like he's been since he took over his commissioner.

Gary Tuchman, CNN Atlanta.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

BANFIELD: Who could ever forget T.J. Lane after his appalling behavior in a courtroom? Remember this, how this Ohio school shooter, murderer of three students, unbuttoned his shirt to reveal the word "killer" on his shirt in court?

He got three life sentences while he was smiling but still managed to escape prison last night. How does the murderer escape prison, especially one this young?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Ohio school shooter T.J. Lane is now back in custody, believe it or not, after escaping from prison last night.

He's now 19 years old, and that young man on your screen is serving three life terms, consecutive life terms, for the 2012 shooting at Chardon High School that killed three classmates.

He was captured not far from the prison. He had only been out for about six hours. They searched for that whole six hours.

One of the two prisoners said he escaped with is still at large, however.

So how was this unremorseful killer able to slip out of prison? You remember that this was the same kid who wore a T-shirt on which he had scribbled "killer." He did that at his sentencing.

But you notice how he came in with the button-down and then just took the button-down off, apparently surprising even his own attorney.

Joining me to talk about how our country incarcerates juveniles is Judge Alex Ferrer, the former host of "Judge Alex" and Florida circuit judge.

First and foremost, before I even get to the juvenile aspect, how on earth does a kid with three life sentences or an adult with three, life, consecutive sentences get to the point where he could actually scale a wall and escape?

FERRERIt doesn't really engender a lot of faith in our correctional system, does it?

BANFIELD: No, not at all. FERRER: We don't know. Obviously, we don't know yet how he escaped

this facility. It's a -- it's not a maximum-security facility, and the department of corrections typically has a lot of leeway in determining where they are going to house inmates.

What I'm not really sure about is why would you put somebody who is serving three consecutive life sentences, which is the highest level you're ever going to get, short of the death penalty --

BANFIELD: Short of death row.

FERRER: -- right -- into anything other than a maximum-security facility.

BANFIELD: So what's strange here is that, if you look at the Allen Oakwood Correctional institution where he was being housed and now presumably still is being housed, now that he's been caught, they're -- according to the "Cleveland Plain Dealer," there are five levels of security -- minimum, medium, close, which apparently he was in, maximum, and administrative maximum.

So they've got a capacity to put maximum-security prisoners, but currently, there's only four. There are only four people who qualify, and he, according to the "Plain Dealer," was not one of them.

FERRER: I don't know how he would not qualify for maximum security. When you're -- typically it's based on the crime you've committing, the sentence you're facing, because obviously if you're in there for life in prison, you have no incentive but try to escape because you're never going to get out of parole.

So why he wouldn't be in maximum security -- administrative maximum is typically for people who have violated the rules inside or otherwise --

BANFIELD: So it's punishment for the guys inside prison already?

FERRER: A larger danger. Not typically, it may vary from state to state, but that's typically what it's used for.

But maximum security would seem like the appropriate destination for him, not close.

BANFIELD: So let me ask you this. If you saw this in your courtroom, as you were about to hand down sentencing, would that make a difference watching a smiling kid who is now 17 years old -- he was first charged as a juvenile, but he ultimately was adjudicate as an adult, and he's now an adult.

FERRER: Yes.

BANFIELD: But you see "killer" on a T-shirt and you see a smiling kid who's basically flouting the entire system, does that change what you say and how you hand down sentencing?

FERRER: Absolutely. That may very well be why he got three consecutive instead of three concurrent --

BANFIELD: Really?

FERRER: -- life sentences.

Absolutely, because --

BANFIELD: It could be a spur-of-the-moment decision from the judge?

FERRER: A judge is looking at him and saying this guy has been convicting of killing those three students, and he shows not only zero remorse, he mocks the system? Why would we want to give him an ability to get out and kill more people?

BANFIELD: He's lethal.

FERRER: Exactly.

And you see defendants do this too, all the time, by the way. They come to their sentencing, and it doesn't dawn on them that the judge hasn't handed down sentencing.

BANFIELD: Right.

FERRER: And they misbehave, they act out, or they say stupid things.

BANFIELD: Or they flip the bird.

FERRER: It can totally change.

BANFIELD: Real quickly, is anything going to happen? Clearly he's got to be adjudicated in some way for the escape. Will it make any difference?

FERRER: No. They will charge him with escape. He'll be convicted of escape and it will be additional years on to three life sentences, which is meaningless, which is why guys like him should be in maximum security. They have nothing to lose.

BANFIELD: Perhaps now they will move him into level four.

FERRER: Perhaps.

BANFIELD: Always good to see you, Judge.

FERRER: I won't hold my breath.

BANFIELD: Thank you for coming. Appreciate seeing you. Thank you for that.

So, if you go by the numbers, it looks like ISIS is much stronger than we first thought, but those terrorists still have nowhere near as many troops as Iraq does, as the Kurds do.

So why is it that they are such a force to be reckoned with? And why is it so hard to beat what effectively is a pretty small army? Those questions in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: If the job is tough, the stakes are huge, and the odds are longer than you'd like, you call in a Marine, and we now know that President Obama has called on this marine, retired General John Allen, former top U.S. commander in Afghanistan, to lead the new strategy to take out ISIS.

Don't call it a war. Secretary of State John Kerry tells CNN it is, quote, "a very significant counterterrorism operation."

By any name, it is a complicated fight against a foe that may have three times the manpower the outside world first thought it had.

My colleague, Jim Sciutto, has that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: The fight against ISIS is the latest chapter in a long American war against Islamic extremists.