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DR. DREW

New Details of Ray Rice Scandal

Aired September 11, 2014 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, (AUDIO GAP), are you over the hill at 22? A dating Web site says yes. They say that 50-year-old men

want women barely out of their teens. The behavior bureau is outraged.

Plus, a mother, a child, Fireball whiskey and Facebook adds up to trouble.

Let`s get started.

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Good evening. My co-host is Sam Schacher.

And coming up, we`ll be speaking to a man who played football with Ray Rice as a Raven.

SAMANTHA SCHACHER, CO-HOST: That`s right, Dr. Drew. He actually knows Ray Rice very well. They`re good friends and he`s going to reveal even more

about the situation.

PINSKY: First up, the NFL says they never saw the knockout part of the TMZ sports tape that we all saw on Monday. But according to a new report, they

had that tape in April. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The NFL announces enlisting a former head of the FBI to find out was there a cover-up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Baltimore Ravens owner Steve Bisciotti admitting they dropped the ball in handling the incident after seeing the initial video.

STEVE BISCIOTTI, RAVENS OWNER: I was picturing her wailing on him.

RAY RICE: There was a lot of tears shed. Me and Janay can truly say that, you know, we`re if a better place. The job I did was more than scoring

touchdowns. You know, it was getting out in the community. It was helping out.

JANAY RICE: I am happy that we continue to be good role models for the community, like we were doing before this.

PINSKY: Listen to an audio recreation of her Instagram.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I woke up this morning feeling like I had a horrible nightmare, feeling like I`m mourning the death of my closest friend. This

is our life. Just know we will continue to grow and show the world what real love is.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PINSKY: Joining us, Anahita Sedaghatfar from AnahitaLaw.com, Heather McDonald, comedienne, her special, stand up special, one woman stand up

special is "I Don`t Mean to Brag" is currently on Showtime. It`s so excellent.

SCHACHER: It`s so funny.

PINSKY: Yes, very funny.

Jason Ellis from SiriusXM Radio.

Sam, more?

SCHACHER: Yes, we do have more, Dr. Drew.

According to ESPN, Ray Rice told the NFL commissioner that he did indeed hit his wife back on June 16. I also have the criminal complaint here.

What`s so unbelievable, especially now that we all know that that video was out there, was the reason why that complaint was dismissed, oh, just about

a month after was, get this, because of insufficient evidence.

PINSKY: OK. Anahita, insufficient evidence, maybe because that`s because they got married and the wife couldn`t testify against her husband or

didn`t have to testify.

SCHACHER: The video. Come on!

ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, ATTORNEY: That could be part of it.

But, Dr. Drew, I`ll be the first to say, if you`re rich, if you`re a celebrity, you`re a pro-athlete, you can afford to hire the best legal

team. That`s what he did here and guess what? They did their job, right? They got the best possible outcome for their clients.

So, I think that`s what happened in this situation. They negotiated a good deal for him.

PINSKY: And what`s this one year rehab program he went through? I can`t find out anything about him. I`ve never heard of such a ridiculous thing.

What was that?

SEDAGHATFAR: It`s not that clear what it is. But it`s like a rehab like a therapy group.

PINSKY: No, no. It`s more like an educational group. It`s not even therapy.

SEDAGHATFAR: It might be.

PINSKY: There was sort of here`s the traffic laws or something. Who the hell knows?

SCHACHER: There were some counseling sessions.

SEDAGHATFAR: It`s interesting that he got accepted. Right. There are some counseling sessions. It`s usually for nonviolent offenders, which is

shocking that he was able to get into the program.

PINSKY: Thus, Heather, the money he spent I guess got him a little slap on the wrist.

HEATHER MCDONALD, COMEDIENNE: I mean, and then when he was saying I did so many great things on the community. So, I`m like what is this that he did?

I guess he did an anti-bullying thing, really? Of all the things, anti- bullying? Like you`re the biggest bully of all. Look how you treated your girlfriend, I mean, your fiancee at the time.

It`s almost comical that was his charity.

PINSKY: Yes. And, Jason, I know how you feel about this, but I`ll let you have at it.

JASON ELLIS, SIRIUS XM: I feel really sorry for the wife. I don`t understand why you need to defend the guy. She looks terrified to me. I

feel like to say, we`re growing and let us be. Anybody who throws a right hand, what about your children, what if they saw that video? There`s no

coming back from that. To me, it`s inexcusable.

(CROSSTALK)

MCDONALD: I almost feel like after this came out, she`s -- in her Instagram, she`s even more apologetic. Like I`m so mad that I upset you

that night, if I hadn`t, none of this would have happened. Like it`s even more disturbing how apologetic and sad she is about it now.

ELLIS: To make out like it`s a rare thing, like this guy was pushed so far on this particular night that`s why he did that. Somebody that does that

in an elevator, in a public place has done it before and will do it again.

PINSKY: Yes. And I`ve said, the key -- every night on this show since we started report thing story, is children know, they sense everything that

goes on with their parents. When there`s domestic violence, the boys act out and become aggressive, the women -- the girls tend to act in and become

depressive and worriers and become -- and then find relationships like this. It`s the gift that keeps on giving, guys. Then they`ll find an

abusive relationship. That`s the pattern.

Now, the ex-boss of Ray Rice, the Ravens owner, admitted he dropped the ball after seeing the first video when there was not a punch seen but he

did see this. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BISCIOTTI: I was picturing her wailing on him and him smacking her and maybe her head was this far from the wall and with her inebriation,

dropped. So, why did I conclude all that? Because I wanted to. Because I loved him, because he had a stellar record.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Heather, I -- can I sympathize with that? But I have another name for that, Heather. I think that`s called denial.

MCDONALD: Yes. But at least he admits it. He did kind of admit it. He goes, why did I think that? Because I wanted to think it.

He thought of like the least most offensive thing the guy could have done, like he was trying to get her off of him and she accidentally hit her head

and she was wasted. I mean, but at least he admitted, yes, that was wrong I concluded all that. He clearly didn`t do his job and that`s why he`s in

the situation now.

PINSKY: Now, people are angry at the NFL. They`re not lying, they`re not deceitful, I don`t think. Do you?

SEDAGHATFAR: They`re not. They`re saying, now we know. Even if you don`t believe that we saw the tape before, now we know and we took appropriate

action. I think it`s great they are conducting an independent investigation, but it doesn`t really matter if they saw that second tape in

the beginning or not, Dr. Drew, because he admitted that he beat up his wife. They saw at least that first tape where he`s dragging her like a

piece of garbage out of the elevator, is that not enough to punish him more than two games.

ELLIS: It looks like he doesn`t care for her when she`s on the ground.

SEDAGHATFAR: He doesn`t care. It`s like he`s done it before, Jason. I totally agree with you. He`s so nonchalant and casual about it.

MCDONALD: Yes, he was annoyed. Like annoyed, like here we go again.

PINSKY: You`re always passing out when I hit you with my fist.

Jason, you do a lot of young males particularly in your radio program. Are they being influenced in a negative way, are they talking about it?

ELLIS: I feel like -- really, when someone says irrational, like they`re for it, or she had it coming, that`s not a sincere person. Usually,

somebody might sense some sort of -- I call them trolls. People say stuff so that you will react to it. They don`t actually believe it themselves.

I believe most people -- I`m a little bit, as an Australian who doesn`t watch the NFL, this is going to -- everybody is going to hate me for it,

but it seemed like football people were more OK with him punching the girl than -- it was like it was a mistake. How is that a mistake? That`s not a

mistake. That`s your maniac. There`s no accidental --

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Let me throw it in your core. What was an MMA fighter or a boxer did this and you admired their work, you admired the sport? You don`t want

to -- you want to look away but we`re all sharing that denial.

Now, this thing is dragging other people into the story as well. NBA player Paul George decision to weigh in via Twitter didn`t go so well at

all. Did it, Sam?

SCHACHER: No, it didn`t. Very controversial tweet he sent out this morning, Dr. Drew. And this is what he tweeted, initially. "If you in a

relationship and a woman hit you first and attacking you, then you obviously ain`t beating her. Homey made a bad choice."

Now, after the onslaught of outrage on Twitter, he did apologize. So then he tweeted, "Let me apologize to the women and to the victims of domestic

violence. People, my intent was not to down play the situation."

PINSKY: Thankfully, Heather, a publicist got ahold of him, looks like.

MCDONALD: Great to say that`s what you did, you did downplay the situation. You said, if she`s getting up in your face and hitting you, you

should hit back.

No, you`ve got to teach your son --

(CROSSTALK)

ELLIS: Can I just say as an incredible annoying man, with all -- like not so much now, because I`m in therapy, but all the other girlfriends and

wives I had, so annoying, like I feel so sorry if they`re listening, I`m so sorry for ever going out with you. But they tried to hit me, beat me, I

never touched anybody, because it`s in your bones. You have like evil hatred toward women to throw punches at them. It`s avoidable.

PINSKY: And to be fair, men can be the object of domestic violence as well.

ELLIS: I`m that, too.

PINSKY: Jason has had some very dramatic stories where she was coming -- that one story you told on my radio program where she just blasted you and

you just took it. You didn`t raise your hand.

SEDAGHATFAR: That`s a real man, Dr. Drew. That`s a real man. I don`t think there`s ever an excuse to put your hands on a woman.

PINSKY: Anahita will see you after this block.

SCHACHER: OK.

PINSKY: Next up, a former NFL football player and a friend of Ray Rice is here to talk about this case.

And later, busted on Facebook. Why did a mother give her son a sip of whiskey, Fireball whiskey, and then put a picture of him holding the shot

on Facebook online? We`ll get into it after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shocking new allegations about disturbing video that shows former Raven player Ray Rice punching his now wife in an elevator.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The NFL commissioner says he didn`t know about that damning Ray Rice videotape before this week.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The announcement comes hours after the "Associated Press" reported a law enforcement source told them the tape of Rice

violently striking Janay Palmer was sent to an NFL executive five months ago.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The alternative is that he`s lying about what he knew and when he knew it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So the idea that the NFL couldn`t get this second video is just preposterous.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you don`t want to call him a liar, I will. Lies, lies, all the lies ever been told.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Sam in our behavior bureau: Emily Roberts, psychotherapist, Wendy Walsh, psychologist and author of "The 30-Day Love

Detox", and Danine Manette, criminal investigator, author of "Ultimate Betrayal".

The NFL under fire tonight. What did they know about the punch in the elevator and when did they know it?

Our own Leeann Tweeden called out Commissioner Roger Goodell last night. Have a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEEANN TWEEDEN, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Do you know a couple years ago, the head coach Sean Payton of the New Orleans Saints was suspended for a year

of being head coach because of that -- where they were putting bounties on heads. They called it bountygate, OK? Sean Payton said he didn`t know

anything about it, and Roger Goodell said, I`m suspending you for a year because ignorance is not an excuse.

Well, Roger Goodell, you need to swallow that same thing right there, because ignorance is not an excuse, whether you knew it or not, somebody is

lying.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: We thought that was a great point. Danine, what are your thoughts on this case?

DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: I completely agree. I deal with cases every day, Dr. Drew, where people are arrested for having guns and

drugs in their cars and say I didn`t know it was there. It`s your car, you`re on the title, you need to know what`s in there and you`re held

responsible for what`s found in your car. It`s the same situation here. If he didn`t know, he should have known. There`s absolutely no excuse.

And I didn`t need to see the second tape actually. I was so disgusted by the first one and I was good already.

PINSKY: Danine, as usual, good point.

Sam, do you agree with that?

SCHACHER: I do. It makes me wonder what else has the NFL hidden in previous years so they can protect their investment, aka, their players.

PINSKY: I wonder what they hide from one another. You wonder if one person got it and the other didn`t. You wonder what went on.

But in any event, for Emily and Wendy, I`ve got a question to you, guys. Wendy, I go to you first. We with licenses have an obligation to report

domestic violence. It is considerable. We would lose -- we could go to jail if we don`t report it in a very short period of time.

I don`t think the average person, A, understands how egregious domestic violence is, and how seriously the mental health community takes it. And I

wonder if people understand what anyone`s obligation is to report. I think everyone has an ethical obligation.

WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: I completely agree with you, Dr. Drew. I want everyone to imagine right now that that was a stranger woman in the

elevator. Now, how you`ve been thinking. Like somehow if there`s love involved that somehow our culture is more forgiving.

And, of course, as we talked about, most disturbed about the semi circle of men who stood around, nobody going to her aid. There`s a security guard

who`s in charge of her security who is not even calling the police.

And I`m wondering if the hotel was worried about their own liability and I have heard that`s why this tape was suppressed for so long. The hotel

recently went out of business. But prior to that, they didn`t want her suing them for not providing security on your premises.

PINSKY: Emily, do you get what I`m getting here with the ethics that we all have to share in this? As professionals, we know we would be punished

if we don`t report something like this immediately.

EMILY ROBERTS, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Right, absolutely. I think -- you know, at the end of the day, what we`re really talking about here too is domestic

violence is a huge problem. There are so many other Ray Rices out there. I mean, 30 percent of women murdered each year are murdered by their

husbands or their boyfriends.

She could have died right there. This is a big deal. It`s not about the NFL as much about him as a person and that`s putting awareness out there

what domestic violence is.

PINSKY: Danine --

WALSH: But can I add to this, Dr. Drew?

PINSKY: Go ahead, Wendy.

WALSH: It`s not so much about blaming the perpetrator, I`m not forgiving here. As much as it is understanding why they grow up to become these

monsters and how we can raise our boys to learn impulse controls.

PINSKY: I agree. I agree.

Danine?

MANETTE: Actually, the statistic is higher. It`s closer to 60 percent of women murdered by people who claimed to --

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: All right. I know you guys said it`s not about the NFL, but I want to bring it back to football.

On the phone, I`ve got Kelly Gregg. He spent three seasons as Ray Rice`s teammate on the Baltimore Ravens.

So, Kelly, my question is, do you think the NFL made an honest mistake or was there intentional deceit going on here?

KELLY GREGG, RAY RICE`S FORMER TEAMMATE (via telephone): You know, again, I don`t know if it was intentional or whatever, but if they had the tape,

someone needs to be punished. It`s ridiculous.

I mean, I played with Ray for three years, spent 11 years in the Baltimore Ravens organization. Out of all my teammates, he would be near the end of

the list that would have made this mistake. But he needs to be punished, and what they gave him, two games. I mean, I think he should have been

gone for the whole season, just from the first tape.

But anybody at the league office that saw the second tape, they need to -- heads need to roll.

PINSKY: Kelly, let me ask you something. You`re somebody that cared about this guy at one time. Just very much like the NFL administration who said

they didn`t want to believe it. Did it take you a while to come to terms with this or did you immediately look at the first tape and go oh, this is

terrible, I can`t support my friend anymore?

GREGG: Yes, it was terrible from the first video that was released. I couldn`t believe -- I mean, I could probably name a lot of other teammates

who I thought would have done this before Ray. I was in shock.

Like everybody else, I didn`t need to see the second video. I thought for sure he would be gone the whole season. But again, I couldn`t believe that

he just entered a pretrial diversion program, too. I think he should have been punished in a court of law.

PINSKY: Danine, you want to say something here, ask a question.

MANETTE: I have a question. I want to know that if you think the new stipulations and the punishments that are being put out by the NFL are

going to serve as a way to lower the incidents of domestic violence in the league or lower the reporting of the incidents of domestic violence?

GREGG: I hope it lowers the incidents, because I mean, again, I think six games that they came out, it should be a year if it`s violence against a

woman. I mean, if you fail a couple drug tests you get suspended a year. Any violence against women needs to be a year.

And again, I just hope -- you know, you make a mistake, you obviously -- I hope for them they -- whatever counseling they makes, I hope the Ravens

stick for it and give him some counseling.

SCHACHER: Kelly, what would you say to the fans or the people out there that believe ray rice or players that may be guilty in the same degree

should be banned from the NFL?

GREGG: You know, I agree with that. Again, but I hope -- I feel if you`re obviously taking him out of the NFL, you`re also taking money from his

daughter and his wife who is the victim of this thing. I would like to see them -- if his salary was like $6 million, put it in a trust fund for his

daughter and his wife. They`re married for four more months or 40 years, I don`t like hurting her financially.

PINSKY: Wendy?

WALSH: Kelly, that`s an excellent point. I think one of the reasons why so many victims are forced to stay is because of the financial ties they

are in. If we can change the system so they actually pay restitution to the victims, then you`ll see far more women coming forward.

But, Kelly, one more thing quickly -- I`m going to change the culture of domestic violence and start one man at a time with you. You used the term

made a mistake twice, when really I think we all need to say, committed a crime.

GREGG: Definitely a crime. I agree totally.

PINSKY: And, Kelly, I was uncomfortable with the idea that there are guys in the NFL who people are concerned could perpetrate something like this.

And I think we all know what you`re talking about and maybe they need some proactive intervention. I worked with the NBA a long time ago and they do

a great job trying to enter intervene on this stuff and maybe the NFL can take a page from that. I don`t know.

SCHACHER: For reform.

PINSKY: Yes. First of all, Kelly, thank you for being here.

WALSH: You`re a brave man.

PINSKY: Thanks for being honest and for helping us try to get our hand around this. We do appreciate it.

GREGG: I hope as a nation we can stamp out domestic violence.

PINSKY: Thank you, sir.

All right. So, this next story, I can`t believe I`m transitioning this to this story, because it`s another kind of domestic abuse, which is calling

women too old at age 22. That`s what an online dating site says, and we`ll get into that.

And later, more domestic trouble. How a Facebook photo has a mother in big trouble tonight. We`ll get into it after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At which age are you the most attractive?

Here`s what the president of OKCupid says in his new book: women are most attracted to men their own age until about 40. Then they typically go for

younger men.

Men find younger women more attractive. Big surprise. After women reach the ripe old age of 22, men find them less and less attractive, which

explains why 55-year-old guys want 22-year-old women.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: I am back with Sam, Anahita, Heather and Jason.

And according to the graph I`m putting up here, women start to lose their attractiveness to males after the age of 22. So, I thought we would do is

take my panel and throw up some pictures at them at 22.

Do we get the graph of your --

SCHACHER: Oh my God!

PINSKY: Hold on, Sam. Hold on. I`ve got surprises for you.

Jason, don`t laugh too hard, dude. I`ve got something for you too.

ELLIS: I look exactly the same.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Did you put the graph up there, everybody, did we see the graph at home? The point being, there it is, if you look at motivation -- there it

is, motivational priorities and give males free rein, it`s not really they`re looking for a relationship, they`re looking for a hook up. This is

what you see.

But let`s do our only little objective test here. Let`s take a look at Sam at the age 22.

SCHACHER: No. Let me see. What do you have?

PINSKY: There you go.

SEDAGHATFAR: Oh, my God! Sam, you`re so cute.

SCHACHER: Oh, my purple eye shadow. How embarrassing.

PINSKY: Heather at 22. Got Heather in there. Come on now.

Oh! I dream of genie.

MCDONALD: That`s at the USC Beta party. I was invited.

PINSKY: Jason, we won`t leave you out of this.

SCHACHER: Where`s Anahita?

PINSKY: There`s Jason at 22.

ELLIS: Oh come on, man, really?

SCHACHER: Topless!

PINSKY: So let`s get to the topic.

SCHACHER: Wait, did you break into our houses?

(CROSSTALK)

SEDAGHATFAR: That`s my college graduation party.

SCHACHER: Oh, my gosh. I think you hired Evy Poumpouras. How did you get ahold of these photos?

PINSKY: Well, we have connections because of Evy as a matter of fact.

ELLIS: Where`s you, Drew?

PINSKY: I`m afraid they`re going to throw something up there. I don`t know.

MCDONALD: I feel like we all look similar.

PINSKY: There`s me at 35 with Adam Carolla.

SCHACHER: You look way better now.

SEDAGHATFAR: Oh, my gosh.

ELLIS: Everybody looks way better now.

MCDONALD: I know. Everyone looks way better now.

PINSKY: I agree. I absolutely agree with you. That`s why this whole thing is a little flawed.

But, Heather, your thoughts on the fact that in that organization of online dating, should women maybe not be spending any time in the online world if

that`s the way men are playing it out?

MCDONALD: I mean, I do think -- you kind of have to do the online dating now if you`re out there. But obviously, it`s awful. I mean, that`s why I

stayed married (INAUDIBLE) to upload my pictures into Match. So, I don`t do anything.

But I think it`s gross, it`s a nightmare. I mean, when I was 22, I did get a lot of guys in their mid 40s. I would go out with them because I was

starving and I wanted a meal.

I just think, of course, that might be the ideal, but I feel like guys are hitting on me now that I`m older, like the 27-year-old guys hit on me,

maybe because they know a woman my age is DTS because she`s got to go carpool the next morning, I don`t know. But I feel like it`s the younger

guys coming off the older women. I think they realized we`re desperate.

PINSKY: She said that, A.J.

SCHACHER: DTS, that`s a New Jersey Shore reference.

ELLIS: You`re just lanky and sexy, everybody`s thinking getting the freeway. You`re just like hot and nobody cares anymore about the age

thing. I don`t know why a guy would want to go out with a 20-year-old, no disrespect to a 20-year-old, but you guys are gross and you know nothing.

SEDAGHATFAR: Look at the source of the study, you guys. It`s OKCupid. This is not like a Yale scientific study, or a Harvard scientific study.

So, I don`t really agree with it, but if the point is guys like hot women, duh. It didn`t take a brain scientist to tell us that. Of course, guys

like pretty women. I don`t think it has so much to do with age, other than looks. It`s more looks.

ELLIS: I`m attracted to, Drew, because of his looks.

PINSKY: I`m attracted to Jason because for the same reason.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Sam.

SCHACHER: I think that if anything we learned here that we can`t -- stay away from OKCupid, because it seems like all the guys on there, all the

dudes on there are super superficial. But at the end of the day, I think that there`s a difference between maybe a guy a gawking at a 22-year-old

girl. I`ll look at a 22-year-old girl and then perhaps wanting to date her and have a relationship with her.

PINSKY: Right, that`s right. I think men -- we have primitive motivational instincts but we actually as humans we become more human with time as we

get older. It`s -- you know, did you guys see that picture today? There was like an actor dating an 18-year-old or something. Here comes the picture.

Oh, we don`t have it. But it was like, really it`s disturbing when you see it.

ELLIS: It`s gross. We don`t need to see the photo. What`s wrong with you, it`s a baby. They have no brain. What are you talking about like what`s

your favorite candy? I`m not even that old but when you go out with an 18- year-old, that is so gross. You only want one thing. You should be in jail for it.

HEATHER MCDONALD, ACTRESS: But when you`re the younger woman going out with the older guy, you`re just telling yourself, oh my God, I`m so intelligent,

I can carry on this conversation. He is so interested in me.

(CROSSTALK)

SEDAGHATFAR: No, you`re doing it for money.

MCDONALD: Yeah. But...

SEDAGHATFAR: I think it`s like a sugar daddy situation, when you have a 20 something with a 50 something, it`s usually because they`re getting money

or...

(CROSSTALK)

SCHACHER: Hey, Anahita, what about a 30 something with a 60 something?

SEDAGHATFAR: I don`t know who you`re talking about.

ELLIS: Oh!

PINSKY: But maybe the resources maybe...

ELLIS: Oh!

PINSKY: But there also might be some trauma stuff. You`ve got to worry there`s something wrong.

(LAUGHTER)

SEDAGHATFAR: You guys...

ELLIS: I`m having so much fun tonight.

(CROSSTALK)

SEDAGHATFAR: I don`t know what you`re talking about.

PINSKY: All right, here`s what I want to do.

SCHACHER: What`s going on?

PINSKY: I know that`s what I`m wondering myself. Here`s what I want to do. I want to bring in -- you guys aren`t taking this very far. What you do see

in these graphs, and let me take this point, is that his testosterone goes up, people get interested in younger people. So women later, the estring

goes down, testosterone goes up, base are getting interest in younger men. The males also tend to stay interested in the younger persons, because

perhaps partly because the flood of testosterone. But also there are evolutionary issues. And I want to bring in an evolutionary biologist. I

also bring the Behavior Bureau and later, how fireball whisky, a mother, a child, and Facebook, add up to trouble, back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN AUDIO TAPE)

CHRISTIAN RUDDER, OKCUPID FOUNDER: Age is a huge variable in online dating. Women generally like a guy to be the same age as them until the guys hit

about 40. But when you flip it around, when you look at how men perceive women, it is pretty much a just straight ticket vote for 20 which is the

lowest age that I looked at in my data stat (ph). So now, even 45-year-old guys rate 20-year-old women the best. It`s very pervasive. This is just

measuring people`s opinions, not what they actually going to do what you say. When you actually look at what people do, you see the realism sets in.

So these 40-year-old guys, who yeah, you know, 20-year-old girls are hottest, 21-year0-old girls. The people -- they have the courage to go out

a message with a lot older, 30, 35-year-old women.

(END AUDIO TAPE)

PINSKY: All right, back with Sam and the Behavior Bureau, Wendy Walsh, Danine Manette and Karamo Brown. Thank you, Karamo, for joining us. The

online dating site OKCupid finds that women like to date men their own age, until they have to certain age, then they kind of look down to the men as

well. Men of all ages tend to date women in their 20s. Karamo, your thoughts on this?

KARAMO BROWN, TELEVISION HOST: I want to tell every woman out there, listen to your gay best friend, Karamo, right now. This is the biggest piece of

B.S. I`ve ever heard in my life. These are little boys looking for little girls. And you should do yourself a favor and go outside right now, do a

cartwheel, then pour yourself a glass of whine and sit down, and say thank you, Lord, because you just stops the biggest bullet, because you don`t

want any of the men in this study.

PINSKY: Now, here the -- I want to bring in an expert on this topic. On the phone, I have got Dr. David Buss. He is one of my heroes (ph), he`s a

professor of psychology. He is an evolutionary psychologist and the author the Evolution of Desire, Strategies of Human Dating. Dr. Buss, thank you

for joining us. I have limited time and I want you to get -- straighten this out for everybody. What is it about evolution that -- and if you can

do it in a minute, what is it about evolution that made these differences between men and women, where men are motivated for the youthful

(inaudible), as we say fertile, and when the females tend to be more motivated for the older, with resources.

DAVID BUSS, AUTHOR: Well, yeah. So, well, in a nutshell, that we are all descendants of a long and unbroken line of ancestors who mated with fertile

mates and cues to youth and cues health, those are the two most important variables that are correlated with fertility. But I would say that you know

-- so yes, there is an evolutionary logic to men`s preferences, what they clip on, but there`s a key distinction between short term mating and long-

term mating. And I can guaranty you that these 40-year-old men don`t want to mate long-term with a 20-year-old woman.

PINSKY: So it really is just the motivational system that is stuck in the male, that reality brings to bear when they actually want a real

relationship and they don`t act out so much on those things when they`re looking for something real.

BUSS: Exactly. So it`s the difference between a short-term sexual encounter and a long-term mateship, and the variables that go into attraction and a

long-term mateship involve intelligent personality, compatibility and similarity of political and religious orientation, and it`s not just these

pure, physical factors.

PINSKY: And, Karamo, to your point, if a guy is just going for those pure physical motivations and stays with that, then run.

BROWN: Exactly, Dr. Drew, run fast.

SCHACHER: That`s why he`s single and that`s why they`re on OKCupid. I think real men -- real men like to appreciate a woman who ages, because as we

age, we`re like fine wine, right?

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: You`ve all just to be establish there, everybody does look better that`s on this program. So, Wendy, go ahead.

WENDY WALSH, PH.D.: Dr. Drew, you know, this is just the data from a dating website, where it`s about clicks. And we do know that men are very visually

wired, so they are going to click on what they think is hot. And I have to tell you, I was very ambiguous in you last segment, because you let the

entire cast who are much younger than me, put pictures of them at the age of 22 up. I decide to tweet a picture of myself at the age of 22, because

on the grand old dame here, and so I should get to that, so just to prove how men are interested in something young and new, let`s see how many

people go to my Twitter account right now, Dr. Wendy Walsh.

SCHACHER: I saw it. It`s scandalous.

PINSKY: Exactly, you look great. We`re going to get it up, Sam (inaudible). Sam, you have other tweets for us?

SCHACHER: I don`t have any tweets, do I?

PINSKY: Oh, I thought you do.

SCHACHER: Let see. Let me think. Yes, I do. I`m sorry. I have one from Judy. And she writes, I guess this tells you something about men. Want

younger women to make them feel young. Also, they never really grow up. I also have one from Tracy. Men have no clue that they are not 18 years old.

Swear testosterone depletion leads to delusions. And then I actually have one from a male. He`s name is Adrian, and he writes, our age may change,

but what we find beautiful doesn`t. They need to come down to reality. It sucks.

PINSKY: What?

BROWN: What?

PINSKY: Danine, go ahead, your thoughts, and then Wendy`s picture, everybody. Hold on.

(CROSSTALK)

DANINE MANETTE, MEDIA ANALYST: So men like younger women. But what I want to see is a study that shows how many of those younger women actually fall

for those men, and if they do, what is the bank account statement look like of the guys they`re falling for? I think it`s probably related to whether

or not these women are going after these men, as well and how much money they have.

PINSKY: And, Wendy, I still think that if I -- when I see that, I think oh, poor girl, what is wrong? What happened to her? What kind of trauma...

WALSH: No, I had rich boyfriends when I was young. It`s the best. They`re all getting something out of the deal. We have to remember that there are

short-term mating strategies and...

(CROSSTALK)

SCHACHER: Oh!

PINSKY: And here`s Wendy. Wow!

SCHACHER: You did want to show that off, Wendy, and I don`t blame you.

WALSH: I`m the oldest one on the show, I think. So I better get to show a nice picture.

PINSKY: All right, let`s end this conversation. I want to get next into a mother who is in trouble for giving her 7-year-old some whisky and then

taking a picture of it and then posting it on the internet, posting it on Facebook. We`ll get into it after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Patricia Denault never imagined she would spend the night in jail for letting her son taste her drink. Mom tells me her 7-year-

old want told try this stuff. It`s cinnamon whisky. She said she was OK with it, did her poured herself a shot of whisky, took a picture of her 7-

year-old taking a sip, and posted the picture on Facebook for all to see, with the caption, my son`s first shot. Someone saw that picture and called

the Longwood Police Department. Denault was arrested, charged with child neglect.

PATRICIA DENAULT, MOTHER OF THE 7-YEAR-OLD: Just embarrassing, for me and for my children. They`re obviously not abused or neglected. Me taking a

picture and putting it on Facebook, I thought it was funny.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

PINSKY: Back with Sam, Anahita, Karamo, and Heather. That mom admits to letting her 7-year-old have a taste of her fireball whisky but she says,

she should not have been arrested, especially not arrested for neglect. Sam, what do the police say?

SCHACHER: OK. I have the police report right here, Dr. Drew, and according to the report, one of her children admits to not only just sipping the

fireball, but taking the whole shot and it made them feel mad. Another child admits to drinking twice pink stuff in quotes, and that made them

feel dizzy. Now, the police did find a bottle of strawberry sea grams in the house but we don`t know if this is the beverage or the alcohol in

question. And then finally the mother also admitted to giving one of her children jell-o shots on holidays because that`s what you do, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: That`s what you do, it`s jell-o, after all. Now, the mom`s attorney gave a statement. He says the incident was blown out of proportion and she

regrets letting her child taste alcohol and even more regrets posting it on Facebook. She claim -- she says that she has taken all the alcohol out of

the home. Anahita, is that enough? Should we excuse this lady?

SEDAGHATFAR: Yeah.

PINSKY: Is this some just a learning opportunity for everyone on how the effects of the internet can come right on into your home?

SEDAGHATFAR: Exactly, that this was stupid, but it`s not criminal, Dr. Drew. It`s not like she was forcing shots down her kid`s throat. It was a

little sip. I think the stupid thing here was posting it on Facebook. And we know the police and CPS went to the home, they checked out the kids,

they interview them, they saw no neglect, no abuse. So it was just plain stupid and you have kids in Europe that are given alcohol and wine with

their meals. So, you know, as long as she wasn`t forcing it down their throat, I don`t think this is criminal.

PINSKY: Heather, your kids drink, right? They pound at dinner every night, is that right?

MCDONALD: I have never had my kids try it, but I remember trying my mom`s wine. And I remember telling (inaudible) that his dad used to serve a beer

and he`s like, go to the bar and like be going up and down the bar, falling over me. That was a million years ago. So I think people have done it

before. I think we know better now, and we certainly don`t take pictures of it and post it on Facebook, like, how stupid are you? And I`m glad that

someone turned in her -- turned her in. She should be arrested for stupidity, if nothing else. What are you thinking?

PINSKY: Sam.

SCHACHER: I`m with you, Heather. I`m sort, there`s a big difference between, you know, maybe being a teenager and trying a sip of your mom`s

glass of wine at dinner or trying your dad`s beer and then being given jell-o shots or an entire shot of fireball. I mean, is this woman short of

drinking buddies? It`s absolutely unacceptable.

PINSKY: Well, Karamo, I know you`ll back me up on this. It actually isn`t that different of having a significant amount of alcohol versus a taste. If

you`re going to be an alcoholic, your first drink is in the home, the overwhelming probability. And everyone who out there who says, oh, the

Europeans, they teach their kids to drink. They dilute it with water. They start them at five. Look at the data on alcoholic liver disease and deaths

from alcohol in Italy and France. It`s off the charts. They just don`t choose to call it alcoholism and they don`t seem to look at what they`ve

done by exposing earlier. Listen, Karamo, but yeah, I`ll give the floor in second, but if you take mice of equivalent age and adolescent like say, if

you expose them to alcohol, the younger you expose them, the more trouble they`re going to have controlling the alcohol consumption later, so it`s --

in other mammals, too. So this is not a good thing for kids. Karamo.

KARAMO: Yeah. I agree with you completely 100 percent, Dr. Drew. Thank you for saying that. First of all, as a father, I`m going to tell you, I know

that crack is bad and my children know that crack is bad.

PINSKY: Hold on, crack is bad?

KARAMO: Yes, crack is bad.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Did you learn it was bad by having a little bit at home?

KARAMO: That`s what I was going to say. I was never give my child crack to let them know that that`s bad, and it`s the same thing with alcohol. And I

-- the police said that this is neglect, and I work with children daily who are neglected, severely neglected. And by neglect, it is by definition, a

parent who is not nutritionally or emotionally supporting their child in the way they need to be supported. And if you are giving a child that is 7

years old alcohol, you are not supporting them to develop and be their best selves. And you can only imagine like what you said, Dr. Drew, what is

going to happen to them as they grow? The first sip always starts in home and later on in life, we don`t know how this is going to affect the child

who is 7 or these other children. It`s despicable.

PINSKY: Well, I`ll tell you what -- Heather, go ahead. But I`m going to say...

MCDONALD: I`m going to say, and as my kids get older and they see us drink and they`re learning about alcoholism...

PINSKY: And they see you get wasted.

MCDONALD: They don`t see me get wasted. That`s a thing I really -- I really made sure as they got older to show them what moderation is in drinking.

And then -- and when we do drink in the home, we don`t leave after, we stay at home. And it`s just one or two glasses of wine because they are watching

us and they are going to mimic what they see. It`s really important and we constantly tell them, when you`re 21, when you`re 21. And you`ve got to

stick with that. You can`t let it be OK. You can`t be the person that serving the beer at the high school party, because it`s your home, and I`d

rather have them do with me, I think that`s a huge mistake.

PINSKY: It`s a huge mistake and the research shows it over and over again. However, although I agree with, Karamo, I think you may be you might all --

Anahita, you may be surprised by this, I feel really sorry for this woman. I feel very sympathetic for her.

SEDAGHATFAR: Wow.

PINSKY: Because I think she`s not informed. We have such a crazy view of this in our culture. I can`t blame her. We`ve had earlier in the show,

we`re saying ignorance is not an offense. But I think we have to educate people. This is an opportunity to do that, but, Anahita...

SEDAGHATFAR: I didn`t know those things. I didn`t know that the first sip starts at home when people become alcoholics. So, yeah, maybe it is an

educational things.

PINSKY: And that other mammals, other mammals not just humans, but other mammals...

SEDAGHATFAR: How did everybody knows that, we`re not all doctors. We`re not all provisions.

SCHACHER: I don`t think you need to be doctor to know to -- I know a 7- year-old shot a shot of fireball.

BROWN: Exactly.

(CROSSTALK)

SEDAGHATFAR: It`s just a sip.

BROWN: Anahita, it`s a 7-year-old child.

SEDAGHATFAR: Let me talk about the person that called the police here.

BROWN: You would not let your 7-year-old child running the street and do anything or talk to a stranger. Why would you let them consume alcohol?

SCHACHER: Thank you.

(CROSSTALK)

SEDAGHATFAR: Sometimes they do it for just...

PINSKY: Does that make it OK?

SEDAGHATFAR: I know some parents that gave their children cigarettes when they were like...

PINSKY: How did that work?

(CROSSTALK)

SEDAGHATFAR: I`m just saying, I don`t think it`s criminal thing here. But, you know, the person that turned in woman in, good for them, because we

always say when people see these red flags, why don`t they do something? Why don`t they complain? So here I`m glad that someone actually said

something. I just don`t think it`s a criminal act.

PINSKY: Heather.

MCDONALD: Well, I think she`ll probably defend the girl but what is different, the girl that (inaudible), but I was just going to say, you`re

saying it happens to other mammals. Next time you swim with the dolphins, let`s not let them drink our margaritas. I had no idea about this

information either, and I love swimming with dolphins, and I have shared a drink with dolphins before, so I`m sorry, Dr. Drew. I did not know.

SEDAGHATFAR: Shame on you.

PINSKY: You shared -- hold on, (inaudible). You shared a drink with a dolphin?

MCDONALD: No. I`m joking!

(CROSSTALK)

SCHACHER: What`s wrong with everybody today? But, Dr. Drew, I want to share some tweets about fireball, because actually Fireball Friday is trending.

Since we were talking about this whisky...

PINSKY: What is fireball?

MCDONALD: It`s delicious.

SCHACHER: It`s like a cinnamon whisky. I`ve never had them. I`m tequila girl myself. But I -- Heather, you got it?

MCDONALD: It`s really delicious. It`s very cinnamony, and that`s why they make it, because otherwise you wouldn`t drink the whisky, but the kids like

it because it`s sweet.

PINSKY: You mean the adults like it.

MCDONALD: The adults But I -- well, I know, but I`m saying the kids in college, the 21-year-olds in college.

SCHACHER: So, this Twitter trend was started apparently by the whisky brand itself, as you can see in the very first tweet that talks about it and

celebrating whisky Friday. And then we have a number of other tweets for example. A fireball fan tweeted, quote, I need to bring way more fireball

to class to match this professor`s intensity. Interesting wow. Smart to drink it in school. And then finally we have another one said, can we just

take a moment and appreciate the fact that Halloween is on a Friday this year? Fireball Friday.

SCHACHER: I know what to do with this. Everybody, try to learn something from all this.

SEDAGHATFAR: Education.

SCHACHER: It`s education. This poor woman, I feel very sorry for her. She made some terrible choices. Maybe now she will learn and others can learn

from her mistakes. Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: Everyone, of course, are remembering 9/11 tonight, including ourselves. Let us never forget those who lost their lives on this day 13

years ago when America was attacked. We leave you tonight with a look at the tribute in lights at the World Trade Center Twin Towers once today.

It`s very moving. If you`ve never been there, it`s -- there it is. Good night.

SCHACHER: Wow.

PINSKY: Good night.

END