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CNN NEWSROOM

ISIS Plan; Ray Rice Fallout; Fighting ISIS; Interview with Rep. Mike Turner

Aired September 10, 2014 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf Blitzer, thank you so much.

Hi, everyone. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you for staying with me here on CNN.

We begin with this. We are now one day out before September 11th. We have the president of the United States, President Barack Obama, preparing to tell the nation and really the whole world how he plans to hunt down and kill a group of terrorists considered more extreme than al Qaeda. I'm talking, of course, about ISIS, these militants who are right now carving this bloody path through the Mideast. And in a speech you can see right here on CNN live at 9:00 Eastern tonight, the president will be speaking. He will be outlining his plan. Outlining a strategy he has already shared with congressional leaders and is right now fine tuning with his national security team.

Our sources tell us it will be a mix of politics, diplomacy and precise military attacks. And just a reminder here, a little context, this time last year, the administration was stalling on a plan of action inside of Syria to stop the brutality committed by its own president, Bashar al Assad. Well, ISIS has changed the calculus here. And tonight we are expected to hear the words "U.S. air strikes in Syria," as well as the prospect of arming and training so-called moderate Syrian rebels. U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry is in Baghdad today building this coalition, laying out the groundwork of this plan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: When the world hears from President Obama this evening, he will lay out with great specificity each component of a broad strategy in order to deal with ISIL. And in the days ahead, I will be meeting with leaders from across the region and beyond in order to discuss, how can we best build on the work that has already been done and to assemble the broadest possible coalition for this fight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Joining me now, Dana Bash, our chief congressional correspondent.

You're talking to your sources. Dana, what are they telling you? What are they hearing as far as specifics for the president's plan? DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, what

I'm hearing from sources here on Capitol Hill, especially those familiar with the meeting that the president had with congressional leaders yesterday, is that we are likely to see a President Obama that we haven't seen much of before. He's going to be -- at least what the White House is preparing congressional leaders for -- very robust, very aggressive, very forward leaning in what exactly he believes that the U.S. has to do to deal with the very, very serious threat of ISIS, and that is to be more aggressive, talking, as you said, about air strikes, which are going on in a minimal way now but to broaden that. So it is going to be not the kind of commander in chief that you've heard Republicans talk about as somebody who's not comfortable as commander in chief. Well, according to what the White House is preparing for, he is going to sound a lot more like a robust commander in chief and give the kind of strategy that people on both sides of the aisle here and across the country have been asking for, particularly after the public outcry around the beheadings of U.S. citizens.

BALDWIN: All right, Dana Bash, thank you so much. Robust, aggressive, thank you, from Washington for me.

And let's talk to a member of Congress. Republican Congressman Mike Turner joins me now from Capitol Hill. He is a senior member of the House Armed Services Committee.

Congressman, welcome.

REP. MIKE TURNER (R-OH), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: Thank you for having me.

BALDWIN: So we know a briefing just wrapped up between administration officials, specific members of Congress, hours ahead of the president's big speech tonight. Have you heard anything coming out of that meeting, sir?

TURNER: Nothing yet, but I think certainly everyone's looking for the president tonight to make the case that ISIS is a direct threat to the United States, that he intends to use military force and resolve for to destroy ISIS, that he's going to look to a broader coalition. The United States not just going alone. People certainly expect that it's going to include, as Secretary Hagel has said, military action both in Iraq and in Syria.

BALDWIN: We are hearing about this blank check that the president, you know, wants from Congress to fight ISIS. What are you hearing, Congressman Turner, about that? What specifically are you hearing as far as how that will be distributed financially to the fight overseas?

TURNER: You know, I think overall you heard from Congress the great frustration that the president has not had a plan. And because of that, any congressional action has been, you know, premature to even discuss speculatively. You know, what will Congress do if the president does x or y? Tonight he's going to have to lay it out and from that point Congress obviously will take action. But I hope he goes more beyond just the ISIS issue to really the root

cause that we have here. If you look at chapter 12 of the 9/11 Commission Report, they specifically state that this is not just an al Qaeda or an Osama bin Laden threat to the United States, it's Islamic extremism, Islamic terrorism. The president, in his speech in Cairo, laying out his strategy for Iraq, said that even in addition to pulling the troops out of Iraq, he was going to commit to holding Islamic extremism at bay and supporting that a territorial integrity and democratic Iraq. He needs to get back to those things, not just an issue of how are we going to militarily attack and hold ISIS back.

BALDWIN: But what about the finances? You know you hear from someone like Senator Carl Levin saying he -- I believe the word was "flexibility." He's OK with maybe this notion of a blank check and the flexibility because we know, of course, the fight against terrorism is evolving. It was Senator McCain from, you know, your party who says, well, if there is no goal, if there is no strategy, then it would be pretty tough to get that kind of money from taxpayers.

TURNER: Well, absolutely. I think no one looks to a blank check. They look to what a strategy is, what a plan is. They look to the president to recommit himself to seeing that Islamic extremism is the threat to the United States and what is the strategy and plan for Congress to take action to authorize funding for this and to appropriate funding. I don't think anybody wants to just say, you know, President Obama, certainly, whatever you want to do, wherever this goes without any consultation with Congress, you should have approval.

BALDWIN: Congressman, you brought up 9/11 a minute ago. It's hard not to talk about it. I was just walking around ground zero just this weekend and I know you -- you were just part of a classified briefing, you know, on worldwide threats what yesterday. What can you share here?

TURNER: It's a grim picture. You know, I was speaking yesterday to Representative Klein from Minnesota and he suggested everyone go back to read chapter 12 from the 9/11 Commission Report because it lays out specifically where we are. If you take your eye off the ball, if you don't hold the pressure on Islamic extremism and terrorism, it's going to grow. It's not just an issue of al Qaeda or killing Osama bin Laden. That it's, in fact, looking at that as an existential threat to the United States and having a strategy to target it. The president has not. He withdrew our troops, let Iraq fall into, you know, the disarray that we see today. His strategy and plan has got to go far beyond ISIS. It's got to be recommitting the United States to a policy of addressing Islamic extremism and terrorism.

BALDWIN: Far beyond ISIS, I mean, who knows even how long it seems in a sense such an abstract concept. It's an enemy of which, you know, so much intelligence in Syria, the U.S. doesn't even have.

TURNER: Right. And well the - what - the president, because he's allowed so much time to elapse, has a difficulty here in putting his plan together because even if he degrades or compromises ISIS and their capabilities, who's going to go in and hold this land? Who's going to fill that gap in space? You know we certainly saw in Libya where the president had no post-Gadhafi regime plan, went in and did regime change. Libya is now in chaos. The president, if he doesn't have a post-ISIS plan, could similarly see that type of chaos envelope in Iraq. This is going to take great resolve on the parts of this president besides just limited air strikes.

BALDWIN: Just to push on that, just talking to Fareed Zakaria, who I consider pretty intelligent and knows a lot of things about the world, you know, and he wrote a piece recently in "The Washington Post" just sort of pushing back on that and saying, listen, even he was surprised to see this -- once all these dictators fell, once we saw the time post-Arab Spring, no one could have predicted what would have happened in Egypt and Libya and the like.

Congressman Mike Turner, I thank you so much for taking the time to come on with me.

And once again, just a reminder to all of us, as we will sit and watch the president's speech tonight, 9:00 Eastern. You can watch it live right here with us on CNN.

Just ahead, can President Obama convince Arab countries to join this fight here? We'll talk live to a retired military colonel about why certain countries are hesitant and why others could be convinced tonight from this speech.

Also ahead, why didn't the NFL see the video of Ray Rice beating his then fiance? My next guest, who represented mega athletes, Ben Roethlisberger, Ray Lewis, tells me what he would have done if the NFL had come to him looking for the video. Stay right there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

And you know there have been a lot of questions about whether NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell actually saw the video of Ray Rice punching his then fiance in that elevator in that Atlantic City casino. TMZ, they got their hands on the tape, they released it and TMZ's Harvey Levin has one big burning question. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARVEY LEVIN, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, TMZ: I think the real issue is, why the heck didn't the NFL commissioner seek to get it? He is a very aggressive guy and anybody who knows anything about him knows that when he conducts an investigation, he literally micromanages it. He will make phone calls. He will do all sorts of things to make sure punishment is meted out and an investigation is aggressive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Then today on a CBS morning show, Commissioner Goodell said his people asked multiple times for any footage related to that incident.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ROGER GOODELL, NFL COMMISSIONER: We had not seen any videotape of what occurred in the elevator. We assumed that there was a video. We asked for video. But we were never granted that opportunity.

NORAH O'DONNELL, CBS NEWS: The question becomes, did the NFL drop the ball or was the NFL willfully ignorant about what was on this tape?

GOODELL: Well, we certainly didn't know what was on the tape. But we have been very open and honest and I have also from two weeks ago when I acknowledged that we didn't get this right. That's my responsibility and I'm accountable for that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: As you know, watching the news this week, that video took down Ray Rice's career. But the question is now, could Roger Goodell's be next? The drum beat to fire the NFL commissioner has been suddenly intensifying since TMZ released that footage from that elevator Monday. Here, case in point, Keith Olbermann on Monday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEITH OLBERMANN, SPORTSCASTER: Roger Goodell's existence, who he is, what he has turned the NFL commissioner's office into, is now symbolized by Ray Rice's brutal left hand striking Janay Palmer and striking her again. Mr. Goodell is an enabler of men who beat women. His position within the National Football League is no longer tenable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: And now, today, the president of the National Organization for Women says, quote, "the NFL has lost its way." She says, "new leadership must come in to transform the culture of violence against women."

Roger Goodell did acknowledge this to CBS News, that there is a domestic violence problem in the league, in the NFL, but he isn't worried about his job and he did not rule out a comeback for Ray Rice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

O'DONNELL: What does that mean that he was suspended indefinitely? Does that mean Ray Rice will never play in the NFL again?

GOODELL: I don't rule that out, but he would have to make sure that we are fully confident that he is addressing this issue, clearly. He has paid a price for the actions that he's already taken.

O'DONNELL: Do you feel like your job is on the line?

GOODELL: No, I'm used to criticism. I'm used to that. Every day I have to earn my stripes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So can Ray Rice come back one day? Let me bring in Don Samuel, a criminal defense attorney who has represented troubled pro players, Ben Roethlisberger, Ray Lewis.

Don, welcome.

DON SAMUEL, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

BALDWIN: All right, sir, let me just begin with the video. You know, if you had this video all along, let's say Ray Rice was your client. The NFL comes to you, Don. They approach you to see the video. What would you tell them?

SAMUEL: You know, my initial inclination would be not to share evidence that's particularly incriminating of the client. But when you represent athletes, the NFL or any pro sport, you have to be conscious of the fact that you're protecting them not only in their criminal case, but also in their professional life. So you have to make a decision whether you want to address it up front, deal with the commissioner up front, explain to the commissioner up front everything that happened and try to mitigate the damage.

BALDWIN: Even if, as we know, Ray Rice admitted to everything that we eventually saw in the elevator?

SAMUEL: Right.

BALDWIN: Same answer?

SAMUEL: The same answer. I think what's happened here is, it was the disclosure was so late, which ended up having such a detrimental effect on his career. And I wonder if the defense lawyer at the time, if he could have foreseen this happening, should have brought it all out in the open, said we're dealing with it, we're going to make amends, we're going to deal with our own personal problems. My guess is the result would have been better than it is as of today anyway.

BALDWIN: OK. Because we learned yesterday, according to the casino, you know, that that tape had gotten to multiple people, including the defense attorney. The other - the other thing I wanted to ask you about, as we just heard in the last bit of the interview with Norah O'Donnell on CBS, you heard Roger Goodell suggest Ray Rice could play again. Both of your clients, you know, Ray Lewis, I think there's now a statue for him, right? Just recently he became a legend. Ben Roethlisberger is still playing. And right now, just perspective, in the NFL currently, there are three players, one accused, two convicted of domestic violence, they are all still playing. So if you were representing Ray Rice, who is indefinitely suspended now and yanked off the Ravens, would you appeal this?

SAMUEL: Well, I might appeal it. But let me also say, Ray Lewis was not guilty of any crime. So there was no reason for him to be in any way suffering problems. Ben Roethlisberger was never even indicted for any crime. So I'd be careful about lumping them in with the other people on your -

BALDWIN: A couple of these people for domestic violence, they're not convicted either but there are charges. SAMUEL: Right.

BALDWIN: Just making - just making my point. Would you - would you go for an appeal?

SAMUEL: I would - I would appeal and I would certainly talk to Ray Rice about, let's try to figure out how to turn this around. It's time now to figure out how to turn this around and become, you know, more of a hero in this case. And you're going to need to make amends. You're going to need to be publicly, you know, acknowledged of guilt and somehow, you know, portray yourself as someone who's worthy of playing in the NFL again and that's what he needs to do now.

BALDWIN: So I just, I have to ask then, how would you make Ray Rice, given this video that the whole world has now seen, how do you make him a hero off the field?

SAMUEL: Well, he needs to, you know, become a leader in fighting abuse. He needs to talk to men's groups. There's plenty of opportunities out there to become someone who says, I did wrong. There's nothing about what I did was right. I make no excuses for it. But now I'm going to try to prevent it from happening to other women. I'm going to try to counsel other people in the NFL. Talk to high school students, talk to college students, talk to other athletes and try and see if I can prevent this from happening to other people. And maybe he can earn his way back into the NFL in that way.

BALDWIN: Don Samuel, thank you so much. I appreciate it.

SAMUEL: You're welcome. Sure.

BALDWIN: And as you hear, you know, this discussion about domestic violence here in the wake of this video, you have heard from women. You have heard from survivors. But we will hear from a man, from someone who counsels the abusers themselves, and, get this, Ray Rice is currently a huge topic of discussion in those circles. What the heck are they saying about this whole story?

Plus, some Arab countries have a lot to offer the United States here in this fight overseas, this fight against ISIS. But the question is, will they help? Hear why some of them are afraid to support America.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: The U.S. is enlisting support to fight Islamic militants in Iraq and Syria. So, what would that look like? He's back with us. CNN military analyst, Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona. He's a retired U.S. Air Force intelligence officer who was assigned to the U.S. embassy in Baghdad.

Sir -

LT. COLONEL RICK FRANCONA (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: And Syria.

BALDWIN: And Syria. Welcome back.

FRANCONA: Sure.

BALDWIN: Let's begin here with just the bigger picture here. As we're talking, and it's key to say, we're talking about the working coalition. These are not all nations, right, who have joined the fight, specifically Turkey, which we're going to get to in just a minute. But why are these key?

FRANCONA: Well, these are - these are our NATO allies. We want them to be involved in this. We believe they're a threat as well because western Europe is where many of these ISIS fighters, the western ones, come from. So they - they're at risk just as we are.

BALDWIN: Sheer geography on those points. Moving on ISIS control, and I think it's always just important to show and -- this point that the quick land grab here because when we heard from Secretary Hagel, what, just about a week ago, he said something that stunned a lot of us, that they control now half of Iraq and half of Syria.

FRANCONA: Yes, and I think these - the lines are a little misleading. Actually, what they do is they control this whole swath here - does that work - yes. This whole area here.

BALDWIN: Here we go.

FRANCONA: Yes.

BALDWIN: Standby.

FRANCONA: Yes.

BALDWIN: There we go.

FRANCONA: This whole area is ISIS because what's not shown in these lines is sand. So it's basically their control, that whole - that whole area from Aleppo to north of Baghdad.

BALDWIN: You're saying just even this is misleading, that line there.

FRANCONA: Yes.

BALDWIN: Let's - I want to hone in on a couple of countries.

FRANCONA: OK.

BALDWIN: Saudi Arabia and Qatar. We know that Secretary Kerry, in Baghdad today, he's heading to Saudi Arabia.

FRANCONA: Right.

BALDWIN: He's making a tour of some of these countries to try to help them pull them in, get them on our side as far as this fight against ISIS. Saudi Arabia is interesting because you say there is no way they will help our -- the U.S. fight unless the U.S. is on the ground.

FRANCONA: They're not going to go to Iraq and fight ISIS to control this area up here. They will defend their border. If ISIS comes down -- and they're here. ISIS is located right here. They could come down here. The problem is, this doesn't present much of a threat to Saudi Arabia because the capital is here and the oil is here.

BALDWIN: OK.

FRANCONA: So there's a lot of sand out there that the Saudis could string them all out and then try and kill them out there. Sending forces to Iraq, I just don't see it unless we send American troops first. They're not going to put their young men at risk if we won't put ours.

BALDWIN: OK. That's the point on Saudi Arabia. I think Turkey's pretty interesting to talk about here, not just because of the shear geography, right, just north of these two nations. ISIS or these terrorist organizations are holding, what, 49 -

FRANCONA: Right.

BALDWIN: Of their Turkish diplomats, but Turkey is also used as a location for a lot of these folks to come in and fight.

FRANCONA: Yes. Yes, this border's very poroused (ph) and you've got desperate (ph) groups out there that are controlling it. But, you know, Turkey's very concerned because we're relying on a lot on the Kurds Peshmerga to fight this battle in northern Iraq over here. And, of course, there's a large Kurdish population out here and the Turks are very concerned that if they agree to some sort of Kurdish homeland in northern Iraq, it's going to incite this desire for Kurdish homeland in eastern Turkey. And that's one thing. So the Turks are walking a fine line here. And, of course -

BALDWIN: How does Obama convince Erdogan?

FRANCONA: See, Erdogan really doesn't want to be convinced because Erdogan would like to sit this one out, much like he sat the 2003 out.

BALDWIN: In 2003.

FRANCONA: You know, we strung our forces all across his border and then weren't allowed to infiltrate then into northern Iraq. So Turkey presents a problem for us right now. We'd like to see them involved. Turkish troops, excellent. They would be a great addition to the force, especially if we had to go in there. But again, the Turks have been supporting many of these Islamist groups, not ISIS, but other of the Islamist groups that are sometimes allied with ISIS. So Turkey has to figure out what's in its national interest. And I think it's going to be a very difficult, convincing act for the secretary.

BALDWIN: OK. Jordan also another nation neighboring -

FRANCONA: Jordan, again, excellent forces, great intelligence. Probably the finest intelligence service in the Middle East. They're going to provide a lot of great information. They already are. The problem is - and as I said before, ISIS is already out here. They could come into -- and a bit of trouble is, once again, it's a long way from here to where anything in Jordan is very important. So are you going to see Jordanian forces deployed to Iraq? I don't think so.

BALDWIN: Which is the most important Arab nation for the U.S.?

FRANCONA: Which country?

BALDWIN: (INAUDIBLE).

FRANCONA: In this context, Saudi Arabia.

BALDWIN: Saudi Arabia.

FRANCONA: Yes. They're the big kid on the block. Ordinarily, if you talk about the Arab world at large, you would want to talk about Egypt. But Egypt has its own problems. Egypt, not really threatened here. Saudi Arabia has probably the most to lose. We need to convince the Saudis. I think it's going to be a really tough sell.

BALDWIN: He's headed there this week and Turkey as well. He being U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry.

Colonel Francona, thank you very much. I appreciate it.

FRANCONA: Sure.

BALDWIN: And here we are one day before 9/11. Dick Cheney, of all people, speaking out against President Obama's foreign policy, but hear his specific reasons as to why he says the president is making America less safe today.

And the NFL and domestic violence spoken together in almost the same breath lately. It wasn't until two weeks ago when the organization even had a really stringent domestic violence policy. We'll discuss that coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)