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CNN TONIGHT

Will President Obama's Plan Work? Americans Fear Terror on 9/11 Anniversary; The Brides of ISIS; NFL on the Defense; Why Stay in an Abusive Relationship;

Aired September 10, 2014 - 23:59   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: It is midnight on the East Coast, everyone. This is CNN TONIGHT. Welcome. I'm Don Lemon.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Alisyn Camerota. We are live with much more on President Obama's plan to defeat ISIS. Can it work? And will Americans increasingly worried about terrorism? Is this what it will take to keep us safe?

LEMON: Plus, Alisyn, ISIS is looking for a few good women. How they're recruiting women, even girls as young as 14. They're far more successful than you might think. We're going to tell you why.

CAMEROTA: Why are women attracted to that?

LEMON: Yes.

CAMEROTA: And new developments in the Ray Rice case. Former FBI director Robert Mueller will conduct an independent investigation. And the Associated Press reports an NFL executive did receive a copy of this infamous elevator video back in April. So we'll get into all of that tonight.

LEMON: Every time I see it, it's like the first time. It's unbelievable.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

LEMON: But let's begin now with a solemn anniversary. This is September 11th. As every American knows, the anniversary of the worst terror attacks on our soil. And as we remember, 2,977 people who were killed in New York City, Washington, D.C., and outside of Shanksville, Pennsylvania, President Obama has laid out his plan to battle another terror threat from ISIS. And the stakes could not be higher.

Tonight, President Barack Obama laid out four points to defeat the terror group known as ISIS. Here is the president.

(PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA'S SPEECH)

CAMEROTA: All right. You have been listening to the president's speech. We'd love to hear what you think about it. You can tweet Don and me on Twitter. And we'll also get reaction to it live from Iraq, how it went over there. Plus it is the early hours of 9/11. And Americans say they are

increasingly concerned about a terror attack. What will it take to keep us safe?

LEMON: And the growing scandal over Ray Rice. New information on what the NFL knew and when they knew it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: In his televised address to the nation and the world, President Obama vowed to degrade and destroy ISIS through a comprehensive and sustained counterterrorism strategy.

CNN's Anna Coren is live in Irbil, Iraq with reaction.

Anna, tell us, I know that some people there in Iraq have expressed some skepticism about some of the main tenets that President Obama was going to talk about tonight.

ANNA COREN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right, Alisyn. People waking up obviously to the news of President Obama's speech. Obviously it's just gone 7:00 p.m. here. I beg your pardon, 7:00 a.m. here. So we yet to get any official reaction but from those that we've spoken to in Irbil as well as Baghdad, they have concerns about President Obama's concept of this being an inclusive government, this new Iraqi government that has been formed in the past few days.

As we know, the key ministries, Defense and Interior, yet to be filled. It's extremely fragile. The -- the Kurds up here, they have not had any of their demands met. But they are saying, though, they'll give the government three months. After that, they could potentially pull out. And we're yet to hear from the Sunni. So obviously concerns about this government. We know that it was a foundation for President Obama moving forward in his mission here, not just in Iraq but also in Syria. So yes, definitely some concerns.

What they will welcome, however, Alisyn, is news of a systematic air campaign. We're seeing those limited U.S. airstrikes over the past five weeks, 150 -- more than 150 in total. But people here wanting to see a much more intensive campaign. Welcoming the news of, you know, these U.S. airstrikes going after ISIS in Syria, and then, of course, the news of 475 additional troops to join the number already on the ground. Taking it to about 1700.

That will not be -- none of those forces will be combat troops. However, they will be in that critical role of assist and advise, because one thing that they certainly need here on the ground to take the fight to ISIS is coordination and cooperation. The Kurds and the Iraqis, the military, two bodies that have just been operating very separately. So they need that coordination to certainly operate a lot more effectively -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: And it's nice to know that they will welcome those additional 475 there.

Anna Coren, thank you. LEMON: Let's talk about this a bit more than. Let's bring in Bob

Baer, CNN national security analyst and former CIA operative. Carl Bernstein is a journalist and CNN political analyst, Lt. Col. Rick Francona, CNN military analyst and former U.S. Military attache in Syria, and Van Jones, a co-host of CNN's "CROSSFIRE."

Van, to you first. Did the president make the case tonight or I should say last night, that ISIS is an immediate threat to the United States and our interests?

VAN JONES, CO-HOST, CNN'S CROSSFIRE: I think he made the case that it's a threat to -- in the long term. Immediate? No. I think that's why he needs to go to Congress, I think that's why he needs to go to the United Nations.

This is the beginning. This is the opening argument, this is not the end. I think the United States has to step up to the plate. And not just militarily.

Let me just say one thing, Don. Young people who are flocking to this butchers, horrible terror group need to be looked at for what they are. They are young people who are being preyed upon. And we've got to hold out some -- something of these young Muslims around the world and tell them, we want them on our side. We want them to be developing new technologies, not new ways to chop heads off of people.

We want them to be on our side curing diseases. We've got to give a mission to the young people around the world. If we don't, these butchers will. That's a big -- we can't just do military.

(CROSSTALK)

JONES: We got to reach out to this young generation.

LEMON: That brings me to my next point because we have been discussing this, Colonel, as you know, everyone on the panel knows, talking about Islam. And is there an inherent violence in Islam, on whether or not it's being perverted or what have you. But I want to get your reaction on something President Obama said tonight, obviously he thought it was important enough to mention. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: Now let's make two things clear. ISIL is not Islamic. No religion condones the killing of innocents, and the vast majority of ISIL's victims have been Muslim. And ISIL is certainly not a state.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: It's not a state, but many say they have organized a nation state with billions of dollars in oil revenue, Colonel Rick Francona. What's your reaction?

LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, not only oil revenue, but they have set up the trappings of a state. They collect taxes, they issue permits. They have a food distribution program. So they're trying to be a state. But, you know, the president's point is well taken. They are not Islamic. Everything they do is against many of the tenets of Islam. You could -- of course you can cherry pick portions of the Quran and fit it to your needs is what they're doing.

But what we're seeing is in the Sunnis in Iraq is they're flocking to this as Van says. But I think it's an anti-Shia thing, not really a pro-radical Islamic thing. And at some point, if there's an inclusive government in Baghdad and successful, they might be able to wean the Sunnis away, sort of like the new Anbar awakening as we saw with Sheikh Albu Risha in 2007. But that's not on the horizon and I don't think that it's going to be an easy fit because there's a long-term problem in Iraq, and they have to address that. Not to mention Syria. I think Syria is the key to this and it's going to be a long-term solution.

CAMEROTA: Carl, the president admitted tonight that ISIS, while it is a threat to U.S. personnel in Iraq and to innocent civilians in Iraq, that it's not an imminent threat to the U.S. homeland. So are we getting into another preemptive military action?

CARL BERNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, that's why I keep going back to the point that -- the president's caution, it seems to me in this part of the world, has been very well taken and has been very smart in many instances. At the same time, there is this greater threat to the homeland, call it what you will, to Western civilization, from terrorism, from fanaticism, from a religious civil war that we don't want to be in the middle of. With murderous people on both sides of this religious civil war.

So somehow we in the so-called civilized world have got to come up with a long-term strategy that is defensive in nature and also hopefully moves this part of the world that has moved so slowly over centuries, and let's look at the reality of the Islamic world. Even with Dubai, et cetera. We are talking about places that culturally are centuries behind the rest of the world. And that's one of the reasons for some of this murderous behavior that we see.

LEMON: OK.

BERNSTEIN: And this is going to be a very long-term -- we need to protect ourselves, not get in the midst of a civil war when we can take military action perhaps by airstrikes.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Hang on. Hang on. We need to get Bob in here. He's sitting there patiently. And I want to talk -- I want to focus on what you were just saying, Carl. Let's talk about the strategy here, if we can put that up. The strategy is, number one, airstrikes in Iraq and Syria, number two, arming fighters on the ground. Number three, counterterrorism efforts, number four, humanitarian aid.

So, Bob, my question is, is it realistic for the president so say that we will degrade ultimately ISIL? Because we're still worried about al Qaeda. What about the long-term strategy in this part of the world? ROBERT BAER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, you know, Don, we

can degrade ISIS. We can hit Raqqah. We can hit -- we can take out their armor. We can take out what communications they have. But the problem is, as people have been saying, it's a wider problem. And that's the Sunni Muslims. There's 20 million of them between Aleppo and Mosul, and they're implicitly supporting the Islamic State, not because they agree with the ideology, but because they're anti-Shia.

They' been mistreated over the last year. They were threatening to break with Baghdad for the last year. We sort of ignored them. They were never rewarded for the awakening. And they're saying, you know, if we have to use the Islamic State to get our way, we will. And the problem is the president can't force Baghdad to make more concessions to the Sunni. We don't control that government. And frankly, the Sunnis aren't particularly happy with this new prime minister, nor will they allow the army back into the major Sunni provinces, Anbar, Diyala, Nineveh.

So he's pretty much stuck. He gave the best speech he could. And he's right, we don't want to get in the middle of this civil war, because it is. It goes back 1400 years and we can't fix it. And, you know -- and you know, then you've got problems with Iran because Iran helped relieved that city of Amerli, we provided air cover and the man who was there on the ground also has killed Americans.

So there are no good sides in this war at all. And I'm not very optimistic that we can fix this in two years or three years or even 100.

LEMON: All right. Hold that thought, Van. You'll get to take exception with whatever you want after -- after a quick break.

CAMEROTA: Right.

Americans tonight, of course, it is the 9/11 anniversary, and we are more and more worried about terrorism. But will the president's strategy to degrade and destroy ISIS help keep us safe? Or could it turn into a recruitment tool for ISIS?

We'll tell you the latest poll, though.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: We're back with reaction and analysis with President Obama's strategy to battle ISIS. And we're joined again by Bob Baer, Carl Bernstein, Colonel Rick Francona and Van Jones.

Van, I want to start with you. I want to pull up a poll, a recent poll that CNN has just taken in terms of acts of terrorism in the U.S. around September 11th. The respondents are worried about this. They now say that they believe that acts of terrorism are likely around today. That compares to just in 2011, just three years ago, only 39 percent of Americans thought so. Now 53 percent think so.

What do you think is going on with the American public? JONES: Well, I think that it's the Islamic State, so-called Islamic,

so-called state has been effective at scaring people. You know, you have Americans being butchered by horrible people. You're seeing acts of terror on the screen. People are afraid.

I think, you know, the way that we deal with this, how do we get back to feeling more safe? We've got to take the fuel away from this fire. I love one thing that Carl Bernstein said and I objected to another. He said it's going to be a war of ideas and I agree with that. This is going to be a long war of ideas and values.

The only thing that we have to be careful, though, is that we don't fall into the pattern of portraying the Islamic world as backwards, et cetera. We should actually be lifting up to young Muslims, the great successes of the Persians and the Arabs and the Islamic world in the name of science and progress. That's a big part of their contribution to world history.

We wanted them to go back to their positive roots and stand with us, to do something good in the world. Not go in this horrible, negative direction. And if we in the West don't start showing more respect to the best parts of the Islamic world, we will bring out the worst.

LEMON: Is that what you want to take exception to? You said you wanted to take exception to something Carl's said?

JONES: Yes, just one thing. It was so brilliant when he was saying about this war of ideas. I just want to make sure that the way that we talk about this war of ideas lifts up the best in all of humanity, including the best in the Islamic world. I know he agrees with me, just wanted to make sure we said that.

LEMON: OK. OK. So, Rick, you know, now -- we know that ISIS started as al Qaeda in Iraq. How concerned should the president be that this will backfire and only serve as a recruitment tool for ISIS?

FRANCONA: Well, that's going to happen. And I think tonight he threw down the gauntlet. And -- I think one of the reasons you're seeing these poll numbers go up and there is -- there is fear in the United States is because we think -- I think that there will be some sort of attack on us because ISIS will try to do something. They know they have a shorter window of opportunity before we really inflict a lot of damage on them. And -- they'll want to take advantage of that.

So I would be very concerned over the short term. In the long term, we're going to eventually degrade them. But I think -- and Bob has said this for a long time. He believes that there are people ready to go. And I think we have to watch out for that.

CAMEROTA: Well, that plays into our next poll question.

Bob, let me pose it to you. We asked, if you were worried that someone in your direct family would be a victim of terrorism, and here are the results. 41 percent of the respondents said yes, 59 percent of the families say they feel they'll be victimized. Is that realistic? BAER: No, it's not realistic. And they can't do that much damage to

us. But we have to keep in mind that when I say that ISIS is here, and I've been saying it for some time, I'm not just, you know, offering my opinion. I've been talking to people doing tactical intelligence. I don't think they're lying to me. And I still go back to the Boston bombing where it was more than two people. I know that for a fact. So there are people capable of hitting us.

We know they have the intent. Is there an imminent threat? No. But then again, there wasn't before 9/11. The CIA said the 6th of August, that -- you know, lights were blinking red, but no one said it was going to be airplanes. You know, I think it's just a sentiment in the Middle East when you see chaos there, there tends to blow back here. And I think -- agree with Rick that there's a chance that they are going to hit us. I mean, you know, they can do it, they have the intent to do it, and the question is when.

CAMEROTA: Carl, here's another poll question. How is President Obama handling terrorism? Now only 41 percent of Americans approve of how he's handling terrorism. That's versus 49 percent back in June. What more could the president be doing?

BERNSTEIN: I think we take too many polls. That's the first thing that --

(LAUGHTER)

You know, they're instant snapshots. I wouldn't read too much into them. What I think what that last one indicates, the first two seem to me were fairly ridiculous polls. Tell you a little bit about the fear that certain people have. But look, it's no surprise that the president is held in much less regard by larger numbers of Americans than he was a year or two or three years ago. And there's some reasons for it. Some of them legitimate, some of them not legitimate.

I would like to add one element to this discussion where I think the president really has failed. And that is, we've been talking about different approaches to this part of the world. And he had in Richard Holbrooke a great diplomat, a great -- understanding man about warfare who in Bosnia helped us out of that terrible entrapment for a lot of the world. And he ignored and isolated Dick Holbrooke and listened to this very small inner circle of his.

And I think that's one of the reasons that those poll numbers show what they do. That there is a realization that this president has isolated himself from people in the political process.

LEMON: Carl --

BERNSTEIN: In the Congress and others.

LEMON: You bring up a very good point because people -- as you said, people think the president is isolated. The people he brought with him from Chicago aren't necessarily the people who are giving him the best advice on how to deal with Washington.

Van Jones, you were in the White House. Quickly, in the 20 seconds that we have left, is that a legitimate concern?

JONES: Well, I think that D.C. is broken. I think there's plenty of blame to go around. Are there things that President Obama could do better? Yes. But I'll tell you this. I'm glad that the Republicans are not using today to attack the president. He has tried to bring us together now to deal with this threat. Let's see if Congress will back him up and maybe we can get to a better outcome. I don't think you can lay it all at Obama's feet. I heard that there's something called the Tea Party in Washington, D.C. that may have something to do with this dysfunction.

LEMON: All right. Thank you, guys, everybody, except for Bob. Bob is going to stick around.

CAMEROTA: Gentlemen, thanks.

LEMON: All right, thank you.

CAMEROTA: Thanks so much. And I'm not going to take offense that Carl didn't like the poll that I was talking about.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: You know, ISIS is aggressively recruiting women around the world. We're going to look at that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: ISIS is known for its recruiting strategy around the world. And it's not just men who are joining the terrorists. Many women are being recruited.

CNN's Joe Johns has more now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): ISIS is looking for a few good women and they're being heavily recruited according to the author of a book on women terrorists.

MIA BLOOM, UMAAS LOWER CENTER FOR SECURITY AND TERRORISM: When you start looking on social media and counting the number of teenage girls who have gone missing, or young men who've gone missing, and I think we're about to 100 .

JOHNS: Today 19-year-old Shannon Conley of Colorado, a nurse's aid and convert to Islam who says she wanted to marry an ISIS fighter, pleaded guilty to trying to provide material support to a terrorism organization. The rare U.S. example of a West woman seeking to turn ISIS bride. Recruits overseas are younger than 19.

BLOOM: Young girls, 14 and 15-year-old girls in the Somali community are specifically being targeted.

JOHNS: They're looking for a certain type of woman.

BLOOM: They are looking for converts. They're looking for blond haired and blue eyed girls, the girl next door.

JOHNS: Unlike al Qaeda which used women suicide bombers, women of ISIS are used to inspect and search other women crossing the border or to enforce morality codes, but otherwise --

BLOOM: They basically use them as baby machines.

JOHNS: And also for cooking and cleaning. And what would draw a girl to lifestyle? Alienation back home is one answer.

KATIE ZAVADSKI, NEW YORK MAGAZINE: I think especially when we you look at Europe, no matter you might be a native born British-Pakistan Muslim, you're still not what people think of when they think of a Brit, right? You're a little darker or you might wear the hijab.

JOHNS: Part of their story is laid out in social media, Twitter, Facebook, Tumblr. The philosophy as explained in this caption portraying two women in full cover.

"You are one of the great parts of this Uma, or nation. And you can bring great benefit by raising your children in pure Islam."

There are occasional pop references. Things the women left behind, women's handbag accessories. Comforts that are not available in a war zone like Syria.

ZAVADSKI: They're really interested in the same kinds of things that women of this age in the Western world are interested in.

JOHNS: But there are also calls to the cause, recruiting pitches to other women and men as well. On the tumblr page of Aqsa Mahmood of Glasgow who took the name Umm Layth in Syria, pictures of the Quran next to guns, calls to other fighters to follow in the footsteps of the Boston bombers.

Her parents can't believe it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a modern Muslim family and it was a big shock for us.

JOHNS: And there's this, a stick figure suggesting the difference between other girls and a jihadi bride. On the left a girl with golden hair imagining a Martini glass. On the right a figure shrouded in black holding a weapon. A haunting image.

The question in the West is why the wives of ISIS keep going there and what might be done to prevent it.

Joe Johns, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: Wow. Here to talk more about this phenomenon is Bob Baer, CNN national security analyst and a former CIA operative.

Bob, why are women attracted to a terror group? BAER: Well, let me put it this way. A couple of years ago, the

Israelis let me visit one of their prisons where they were -- had women suicide bombers from their networks. And they let us go for just days on end talking to them. And I did get to interview them. And there was a variety of reasons.

CAMEROTA: Such as?

BAER: And among them, I should add, there was -- well, I mean, a lot of them, alienation is a big question. Dysfunctional families. One girl I talked to tried to blow herself up at an Israeli checkpoint. She had been scarred. And she wouldn't marry. And so the only -- her only solution to this was to blow herself up in a hospital, an Israeli hospital.

There was another interesting set where a husband caught his wife cheating on him. He went to the -- by the way, she had two children. Went to the lover and said, what are we going to do about this? And they both agreed that she would blow herself up. And they convinced her into that, and that's exactly what she did. Leaving behind two children.

You know, some of them were lawyers, well educated, spoke good English. But it's mainly people looking for a cause.

CAMEROTA: But wait a second.

BAER: Their lives are inadequate.

CAMEROTA: What you just said is the most kind of confounding. So when somebody is educated and a lawyer, that seems that they're more assimilated into the culture, they're not alienated. So why -- what's their motivation?

BAER: This was not a (INAUDIBLE), it was pure anger. She went into a restaurant in Haifa and blew herself up between a table of Israelis. Even 3-year-old kids. She was completely empathetic according to the man she entered the restaurant with who did escape. What beautiful children these were. But it was -- she was fighting back. She thought that was the way the Palestine would -- could fight back the Israelis.

I mean, it's ultimately you're irrational, but, you know, al Qaeda and ISIS and Hamas and the other organizations, they took don't discriminate against women. You know, they will put them on the frontlines. And ISIS, I've heard anecdotal stories is training people to be suicide bombers in Raqqah. Even children as young as 9. Now whether they actually succeed and convince them to go outside and make this work, I just don't have any idea. But women, they found good soldiers.

CAMEROTA: I don't remember hearing about women's involvement with al Qaeda as much as we are now hearing about them with is. Is ISIS unique? Have they upped the ante? Or are they more attractive somehow to women? BAER: Well, there's a lot more Westerners inside ISIS than there are

-- then al Qaeda is based in the tribal areas of Pakistan which is not very -- you know, there's just no equal opportunity there. And I think that ISIS is trying to become more modern. And they want the biggest following they can get. And they certainly don't want to exclude women from the West or from the Arab world.

CAMEROTA: Yes. More modern by making women baby machines and cooking and cleaning for them.

Bob Baer, thanks for the insight. It's fascinating to explore that. Thanks so much.

LEMON: Sure was.

CAMEROTA: All right, there are big developments tonight in the Ray Rice case. We'll bring you the latest on that.

LEMON: Plus, two wives of retired NFL players speak out, their thoughts on abusive relationships. You don't want to miss that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: We have new developments tonight in the Ray Rice story. The NFL says that former FBI director, Robert Mueller, will conduct an independent investigation.

LEMON: And meanwhile there are new questions about what the NFL knew and when they knew it.

CNN's Miguel Marquez has more.

MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, Don, just when you thought this story was getting smaller, it seems to be getting bigger. The Associated Press saying that an anonymous law enforcement source provided the NFL with the videotape from inside the elevator three months prior. They say they did this on an unsolicited basis because they wanted the NFL to have all the information at its fingertips as it was making a decision about punishing Rice.

Now the NFL getting back to us very quickly. Brian McCarthy, the NFL spokesperson, saying, "We have no knowledge of this. We are not aware of anyone in our office who possessed or saw the video before it was made public on Monday. We will look into it."

The Associated Press saying the way their reporter got on to this story was that the law enforcement official allowed them to listen to a voicemail message from April 9th of this year. It was a female voice, that female voice, somebody with the NFL who they passed the videotape on to.

The female voice expressed thanks for sending it along to the law enforcement official and then said, you're right, it's terrible. This scandal now following Roger Goodell wherever he goes. Today he was in Wake Forest, North Carolina. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROGER GOODELL, NFL COMMISSIONER: When we make a mistake we're honest about it and we're open about it and say we're going to work it -- do better. We were two weeks ago. That's when we improved our policies in this area and we have more work to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARQUEZ: Now one other thing I want to point out, the videotape aside, the complaint summons filed by the police officers that night in February is very clear what happened inside that elevator. It says, "He struck her with his hand, rendering her unconscious." So clearly there was a very hard hit made against Janay Palmer at that time.

Also I want to point out that the press release that the Atlantic City Police put out sometime later didn't mention that she was made unconscious by the strike. In fact, didn't even say that ever happened. At one point they're saying both Miss Palmer and Mr. Rice refused any medical attention as no injuries were reported by either party.

How you go from unconscious to no injuries is another question that is hanging out there tonight -- Don, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: All right, Miguel, thanks so much.

We had a chance to speak to Dawn Neufeld. She's the wife of retired NFL player Ryan Neufeld. Her own mother was in an abusive relationship for a decade. Also Miyoshi Johnson. She's the wife of retired NFL player Chris Johnson. And she is a close friend of Ray and Janay Rice.

Dawn, I want to start with you. As we said --

DAWN NEUFELD, WIFE OF RETIRED NFL PLAYER RYAN NEUFELD: Sure.

CAMEROTA: You're married to a former NFL player and your own mother was in an abusive relationship. So you connect to Janay on many different levels. And you say you understand why she wouldn't leave. Tell us about that.

NEUFELD: Maybe not necessarily understand why she wouldn't leave, but I certainly can understand why it's not an easy decision. People saying why doesn't she just leave?

My mom, who is an incredibly intelligent woman, educated, an administrator in a school district before she retired, her own home, was in a relationship for -- for 10 years who all she had to do was tell him to leave. All she had to do was lock the doors. And there was something about it that she just couldn't let go. And to see it happen with my own mother, who is a such a rock, I can imagine it can happen to anyone.

CAMEROTA: And Dawn, also some people have suggested that maybe Janay is staying because of all of the wealth and privilege that comes from being married to an NFL player. Do you think that could be playing into it?

NEUFELD: Well, I think there's a perception that NFL wives are just gold diggers to begin with. But if you've actually lived this life, to know what it's like to have your spouse laying on the field with a blown-out knee or some sort of injury, to have one of his teammates almost die on the field, there's no amount of money that can ever compensate for some of the stress that comes along with being an NFL wife.

There's no doubt there's some benefits to being in the NFL and being an NFL spouse, but there are a lot of things you trade off that goes along with that.

CAMEROTA: Great point.

Mioshi, your husband played for the Ravens with Ray Rice. And you are close friends with Ray and Janay Rice. Can you tell us what they're like as a couple?

MIOSHI JOHNSON, WIFE OF RETIRED NFL PLAYER CHRIS JOHNSON: NFL They -- as a couple, they're just like any normal NFL couple. You know, living the NFL life, where he works so hard to accomplish on the field, but also what they have worked so hard to build together as a family in this business of the NFL. They're a loving couple.

CAMEROTA: And I guess -- I guess the question is, have you ever seen him act aggressively or abusive towards her?

JOHNSON: No. Not at all. And I'm very well versed I think with working with domestic violence and seeing women who have the silent cries, who have the signs of being in a crisis relationship or some kind of domestic relationship. And there's never any signs to me at all ever.

CAMEROTA: You say that you're very well versed in working with women who go through this. And of course, you are because your own husband started this nonprofit to help abused women be able to break free of that cycle because his own sister was killed by an abusive boyfriend. So are you and your husband able to counsel Janay?

JOHNSON: That's why I lent my voice to her and as a friend in that aspect. Because she does know my stance on domestic violence. We founded the Foundation for Women and Children not to just break free from domestic violence. If it's homes that need to be broken free from, battered homes where the children -- the women need to be removed, OK. But also to educate women about domestic violence, to educate families and to get families help and resources and solutions if they are in a domestic violent relationship. And so that's how she knew she could depend on me to help her try to transition through this.

CAMEROTA: It was fascinating to talk to them. I mean, she said that she's never seen him act aggressively. Never seen ray hit or be abusive with her. That they are a loving couple. She said.

LEMON: Yes. Yes. And many have said that until now he has been the poster boy. But you

never know what's happening behind closed doors.

CAMEROTA: True.

LEMON: And listen, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. But you know the NFL has been under fire lately for what many think are turning a blind eye to domestic violence. And the owner of the Carolina Panthers I thought was interesting, Alisyn, and be able to speak tonight in Charlotte, North Carolina, he was getting an award. It because very emotional when he was talking about domestic violence.

CAMEROTA: That is interesting. That the owner would become commercial because you never know whose life this has touched. It's hard to know if he had a personal story. They say that a quarter of all women in this country have had some sort of abuse experience.

LEMON: Let's listen in.

CAMEROTA: So let's listen in.

LEMON: Let's listen in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JERRY RICHARDSON, NFL OWNER, CAROLINA PANTHERS: When it comes to domestic violence, my stance is not one of indifference. I stand firmly against domestic violence, plain and simple. To those who would suggest we've been too slow to act, I ask that you consider to not be too quick to judge.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Interesting, because one of his players, defensive end Greg Hardy was found guilty of assaulting his ex-girlfriend. That was back in July. And then threatening to kill her so it's -- you know, it's happening even on his team.

CAMEROTA: It is. But it's hard to know why he was so emotional like that. I'd like to know the back story.

LEMON: Yes. Yes. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: We have an update on Joan Rivers' death. The Manhattan clinic where she suffered cardiac arrest is disputing a report that something went wrong during a biopsy of her vocal cords. A spokesman for the Yorkville and (INAUDIBLE) Clinic, tell CNN, quote, "a biopsy of the vocal chords has never been performed at Yorkville Endoscopy. The same man also says general anesthesia has never been administered at this clinic.

Now the "New York Daily News: had reported that an unidentified source said a doctor made a spur of the moment decision to biopsy a growth on the 81-year-old comedian's vocal cord. Yorkville endoscopy is now being investigated by the New York state department of health. Rivers also had triggered an investigation by the New York Medical Examiner's Office.

A spokeswoman tells CNN, quote, "The cause and manner of death will be announced at some point.

LEMON: And meanwhile, a judge in South Africa is on the verge of handing down a verdict in the Oscar Pistorius murder trial. The double amputee Olympic athlete faces one count of murder in the shooting death of his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp. Pistorius says he mistook Steenkamp for an intruder and they panicked shooting her through a back of the door. And of course the prosecutor says he intentionally shot her after an argument.

So CNN will have the latest on the verdict as it happens. Make sure you stay tuned for that.

CAMEROTA: OK. Great being with you tonight, Don.

LEMON: You as well.

CAMEROTA: That's going to do it. Thanks for watching.

LEMON: Good night.