Return to Transcripts main page

NEW DAY

: Threat of ISIS Assessed; Interview with Senator Susan Collins; Ukraine and Separatists in Peace Talks; An American May Lead ISIS on Social Media

Aired September 5, 2014 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: All right, but the problem is it does have to happen. That's going to take cooperation and U.S. government so let's bring in Senator Susan Collins, a Republican from Maine. She sits on the select committee on intelligence and believes a comprehensive strategy for dealing with ISIS is long overdue from the Obama administration.

Senator, thank you for joining us this morning. What is your primary criticism of the current strategy out of the White House?

SEN. SUSAN COLLINS, (R) MAINE: My primary concern is that the president has been sending mixed messages about what the strategy is. It's long overdue for him to present to Congress, to our allies, and to the American people a comprehensive strategy. As an example, just recently he said that the goal of American policy was to degrade and destroy ISIS, yet just a few hours later he said that the goal was to make ISIS a manageable problem. Those are two completely different and conflicting goals.

CUOMO: Senator, how much of that is word play, though, because you as well as anybody, probably better, saying that we're going to follow them to the gates of hell may sound great, but it is also minimizing extent and complexity of this? Don't you have to work down the problem first? You don't just destroy this. You're dealing with an idea, not just a standing army. How much of that is playing politics with words and really just giving a nod to the idea that this is a complex situation, it's not as simple as just destroy it?

COLLINS: It certainly is a complex crisis, and I don't mean to minimize that in any way, but the messaging is absolutely critical, and here's why. ISIS is portraying our country as weak. It has been able to show that it is a formidable force. If we're not speaking with one voice and if the president does not have a clear, coherent, and comprehensive strategy, it allows ISIS to recruit more people to the cause, including westerners, including Americans, and that's very harmful.

The messaging that ISIS has given out through social media, through its videos, and through its horrific actions is very clear. It's a message that it's going to establish a caliphate in the entire region and that it is a formidable force and it's inviting others who share its perverse and perverted ideology to join the cause. That's why the messaging that our president has given is so important. CUOMO: Here's the problem. Again, as you know, and it's important to

qualify that for you at home because the senators are as read in on this situation as anybody. The people that you are fighting right now, or will be fighting, are largely the same people that you have been fighting. You're dealing with disenfranchised Sunnis now from the Iraqi army that happened as a result of what happened in the transition from Saddam Hussein to Maliki. We get that. That's not even in the weeds anymore. People understand that's our problem.

The American people have said they don't want boots on the ground. You and I both know that you're going to have to have boots on ground. So politically what do you think should be the message when what you have to say in truth is exactly what the American people are telling you they don't want you to say? How do you handle that?

COLLINS: Well, first of all, those boots on the ground don't have to be our boots on the ground. We do have regional allies. We do know that the Kurdish forces properly supported with intelligence, equipment, and training are a very capable fighting force. They have proven that. The Iraqi army has been very disappointing, but there are elements of the special forces in the Iraqi army who have shown capability and commitment. So the boots on the ground don't have to be ours. We also should remember that we have regional allies in Jordan, in Turkey, in Saudi Arabia.

CUOMO: And they have been very quiet.

COLLINS: And that's a problem. Why aren't they speaking out? ISIS is a tremendous threat to them as well. In fact, I would call upon the moderate Muslims worldwide to speak out and denounce is and show young people who may be attracted by is that this is totally inconsistent with the tenets of Islam. And those voices are missing in this debate, and that is part of the problem.

CUOMO: Senator --

COLLINS: That makes the --

CUOMO: Go ahead, please finish your point, senator, please.

COLLINS: That makes the clarity of the American president's messaging even more important.

CUOMO: Now I would suggest that if we look over recent history you don't see anything being accomplished militarily in that region of the world without U.S. boots on the ground, and I would question what a sufficiency of the allies are on their own without U.S. troops, but let's save that discussion for another day because I think we'll be dealing with it for sure.

Let me ask you this, senator. There's no question everybody says that this battle is going to take a long time -- resources, blood, treasure. That constitutionally falls squarely under the mandate of Congress, not the president. Why don't we flip the scrutiny here and instead of putting it all on the president to present to you, why isn't it Congress taking their constitutional responsibility seriously and making its own decision about declaring war in this situation, because that's what you're all talking about?

COLLINS: Well, first of all, the president is the commander in chief, and I think he should have reconvened Congress, called us back into town during the August recess, presented his strategy, and asked for a revised authorization for the use of military force to support the air strikes. I support the president's decision to use air strikes, and I think as commander in chief, to protect American citizens, he does have certain inherent authorities.

But you're absolutely right that ultimately it is Congress' responsibility not only to provide the authorization for the use of force but to provide the resources that are going to be used even if it is being used in a comprehensive way to provide intelligence, to provide the aid, diplomacy, whatever the comprehensive strategy is.

And we need a political strategy in Iraq. Part of this is due to the failure of the previous Iraq Prime Minister, Maliki, to bring together all of the ethnic and sectarian factions in the country in a cohesive way and to share power. But I do agree with you that Congress should be involved in the decision-making. But it's clearly the responsibility of the president as commander in chief to devise a strategy and present it to Congress.

CUOMO: Right.

COLLINS: Then we can debate it, come up with a revised authorization.

CUOMO: I'm just saying through history we've seen that Congress has been giving more and more power away to the president when it comes to military action. This may be a great moment to take it back, not as a vote of no confidence in the president, but it's time for everyone to step up to their responsibility. Senator Collins, thank you so much for being an open voice on the issue.

COLLINS: I agree.

CUOMO: Look forward to having you back.

COLLINS: Thank you.

CUOMO: Michaela?

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: All right, thanks, Chris. Seven minutes past the hour. Let's give you a look at your headlines.

A meeting on a cease-fire between Ukraine and pro-Russian rebels under way at this hour. The president of Ukraine and the NATO secretary- general are both expressing cautious optimism a deal can be reached. Heavy fighting continues to rage this morning, however, in eastern Ukraine. In the meantime, European Union nations are considering new proposed sanctions against Russia and will decide how to proceed based on whether there's a peace agreement in eastern Ukraine.

The third American to be diagnosed with Ebola will arrive at the Nebraska medical center in Omaha today. Dr. Rick Sacra will be treated at the hospital's bio-containment unit. In a news conference Thursday Sacra's wife said she had spoken to the doctor, treating him in Liberia. She said her husband was able to walk on to the plane on his own, as you can see in that video.

A U.S. military investigation concludes a friendly fire incident in Afghanistan that killed five Americans, including members of an elite Special Forces team, was avoidable. The report says the tragic air strike launched back in June was the result of poor communication, inadequate planning, and other mistakes as well.

To the details we brought you yesterday of a terrifying shark encounter off the coast of Massachusetts. Officials have released the frantic call for help as a great white shark attacked two kayakers and sunk its teeth into one of the kayaks sending them into the water. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Help, help. I was just on a boat and we're stuck in the water and there's a shark.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How terrifying.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How long are you going to be?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're really scared.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: How terrifying. The women were pulled out later, were not hurt. However, look at that. You won't forget that. The shark left an 18-inch bite mark on one of the kayaks. I mistakenly said yesterday that it got her leg. It was actually the kayak that it bit. They waited for about half-an-hour until somebody could get them. The shark did swim away, thank goodness, but you can hear the terror in their voices.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Absolutely.

CUOMO: It's bigger than the kayak.

PEREIRA: Oh, absolutely.

BOLDUAN: He's got nothing.

PEREIRA: Don't go taking pictures of seals.

CUOMO: Test bite. That's a scary situation. They sound scared in the call, but to hold it together the way they did, I don't think I would have been able to speak.

BOLDUAN: I wouldn't have even been able to make the call, I don't think.

CUOMO: All I am in that is a victim.

BOLDUAN: Agreed. CUOMO: A statistic waiting to happen. They showed great resolve to

get themselves through, and I hope they get back in the kayak again.

PEREIRA: One them said they would, and one them said no way.

CUOMO: Too soon.

BOLDUAN: I respect that.

CUOMO: Not too soon for the weekend though.

BOLDUAN: Which means let's check the weather. Let's get to meteorologist Indra Petersons who is keeping track of it for us. How's it looking?

INDRA PETERSONS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: We don't need any fake names, anymore. It is Friday. It is here, guys, yes. Yes, we're talking about unfortunately a threat of severe weather right as we head into the weekend. Detroit looking for that threat as well as Indianapolis today. But look what happens as we go in through tomorrow. It moves farther to the east. We're talking about major cities, 34 million of you looking for this threat including places like Boston and even New York City looking for the severe thunderstorms on Saturday.

Saturday is the day inside in the northeast. Sunday is the day you can actually go outside. Now, keep in mind, look, the huge temperature contrast that is still here, cool air right behind that cold front. Watch what happens as we go through the weekend, though. This cold air sinks down into the south and into the northeast. This cooler air will be settling in. We'll see some milder temperatures. It looks like a rollercoaster as you see temperatures drop. Still not bad, though. We're talking 70s, guys, very comfortable, more of that football-like weather.

Speaking of which you have a little east coast, west coast battling. I know somebody likes the Jets. Temperatures look good. If you're heading out to the game it looks like upper 70s. Michaela, you're west coast.

PEREIRA: Who are they playing?

CUOMO: Is this your team? Are you Raiders?

PEREIRA: It's my better half's team.

PETERSONS: It used to be L.A., so, you know, it counts.

PEREIRA: Exactly. West coast, east coast.

CUOMO: Listen, here's something that we all need to get comfortable with during the football season. The Colts are a good team, the Raiders have great style. Being a jets fan is one of the oddest situation in sports because you go into a season with an expectation of mediocrity as a goal.

BOLDUAN: All summer long it's been the Jets angst. CUOMO: There is no angst. It's just, when is it going to happen?

When is the, oh, no.

PETERSONS: It can only go from here.

CUOMO: The best part of that game will be the weather.

BOLDUAN: You cannot be optimistic.

CUOMO: The Jets game, like the weather is usually a sidebar about how it will affect the game. It's best part of the game.

PETERSONS: Wow.

CUOMO: Oh, another interception. Oh, he's out for the season. I hope they have nice helmets this season. Those are the kind of things we look forward to.

BOLDUAN: The jets talk is back. I'm so happy.

Let's take a break. Homegrown terror fears, a manhunt is underway to find and capture an American citizen who may be supporting ISIS' social media operation. What danger does he pose to Americans back home?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CUOMO: Welcome back. You'll hear a lot of people saying that ISIS is really a lot of the same people that you see in the Taliban and al Qaeda and we've been fighting for years. But there are unique and new parts of the threat of this organization. One is an ability to use social media to recruit Americans and turn them against their own country. U.S. officials say Ahmed Abousamra, who is from Boston, is suspected of joining ISIS and lending his considerable social media expertise to the terror group.

CNN's Deb Feyerick is here with details.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and Chris, one of the ways in which you communicate with young people is you speak to them in their own language. And a law enforcement official is telling CNN they are looking into whether Ahmed Abousamra may be involved in the murder group's media wing, specifically its English social media, which includes Facebook, an online magazine, also Twitter, although Twitter recently suspended the group's account.

Now Abousamra grew up near Boston. That's what makes him interesting. He holds both a Syrian and a U.S. passport. He graduated from Northeastern University in Boston with a degree in the field of computer technology. He is fluent in both English and Arabic, and he's also been focused on this jihad for more than a decade. Now, according to the FBI, he allegedly traveled to Yemen back in 2004 for terror training. Then he went to Iraq to fight and kill U.S. troops, according to authorities. He returned to the U.S., but left again after being questioned by the FBI's joint terrorism task force. Now we've spoken to many people on this. Authorities are not

confirming exactly what role, if any, Abousamra has in ISIS, but he has been on the run for more than five years. He's on the FBI's most wanted list. They have made him a priority right now to order to try to capture him, to bring him back and find out what he knows.

But, again, he was last seen in Syria. He's been in Iraq. There's a possibility he was in Lebanon and Turkey and so these officials have their work cut out for him (sic). One thing we do know is a close friend of his was actually running the social media group for al Qaeda in Iraq, and that's why they believe that this would be a logical step for this man who is fighting alongside him. Chris?

CUOMO: All right. Thank you very much, Deb. I mean, this a big part of this, is understanding this organization and how they work and figuring out where you have to combat what they're using as their tactic. So this is a big discovery.

BOLDUAN: And an important tactic. I want to explore -- let's explore that a little bit more, the social media aspect of this.

Let's bring in CNN's national security analyst Julia (sic) Kayyem, a former assistant secretary of the Department of Homeland Security under President Obama, and Fran Townsend, former Bush homeland security advisor and a member of the CIA and Department of Homeland Security external advisory boards.

Good morning to both of you. I mean, Deborah laid it out really well, exactly who this guy is, what we know about him. From -- grew up in Boston, college-educated with a degree in computer technology. Fran, why would ISIS want to recruit someone like this? It's not like he has any battlefield expertise?

FRAN TOWNSEND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: No, but, of course in a large terror organization you need people who have a whole mix of skills, and the fact that he can speak in idiomatic English and speak to Americans, Westerners, in language that's familiar to them.

You know, they had a very orchestrated campaign. The day of the execution of James Foley, myself, other journalists' Twitter accounts were flooded with these horrible images of the post-execution body of James Foley. And you'd no sooner would block it and you'd get another account, related ISIS account, that would come into your Twitter feed. It took Twitter, you know, a full 24 hours to catch up with them. And, quite frankly, it's concerning to the U.S. government because they don't have the ability, the capability, to react that quickly and that tactically on social media.

BOLDUAN: So they're behind ISIS on this?

TOWNSEND: Absolutely. Look, we've seen propaganda campaigns from al Qaeda before, but nothing that acts that quickly in real time events that's able to target tactically. And that's a real concern to American officials.

BOLDUAN: Well, and it's so interesting, then Juliette. I mean, we talk so much, mostly about the brutal battlefield tactics of ISIS, not so much their social media apparatus. How important -- how important is this to ISIS though? Is it purely recruiting? What is it?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: It's exceptionally important. I mean, one is recruiting because it shows -- at least it shows the world's their strength, their brutality, and it's a way to get people engaged in ISIS from their living room, as Fran said. You're just sitting there and it comes up.

The second though is a little bit more disconcerting. In the same way social media works for teenagers, right, that you can say something and it's amplified and you think it's reality, ISIS can portray strength through social media in a way that they might not be able to if you looked at numbers or if you looked at where they are.

And so it has that amplifying effect so that you're sitting in your room and you think, oh my god, they're next door, right? And they're not. They are far away. But it also lets them sort of invade your space and sort of amplify their strength. They are a serious threat. And then they're using social media to make themselves even bigger in that regard.

BOLDUAN: With that in mind then, Fran, if the United States is kind of lacking here, a little bit behind the ball, what does the U.S. government need to do? I mean, Attorney General Eric Holder, he was asked about Americans fighting overseas, the concerns about radicalizing Americans and the, going overseas. And he said this, "I think we have a pretty good handle on who was there and also a pretty good handle on who potentially might want to go there."

But that doesn't mean they have the potential of combating this in an effective way, right?

TOWNSEND: That's right. Look, it is -- it would be terrific if we had real confidence that the 100 number that gets bandied about was real, but every official you talk to believes that's a low estimate, that the number is likely higher. Second, will they -- will you be able to track them when they leave and track --

BOLDUAN: What do you do about them, Fran?

TOWNSEND: That's right. We've heard Prime Minister Cameron talk about basically making these people stateless if they try to re-enter the U.K. We've heard nothing from the administration about what their plan is.

And this is all part of why the president needs to articulate a clear and comprehensive strategy for how he's going to deal with all aspects of this. This is not just a military problem, although the military issue is significant. It has to be diplomatic. It must be security and law enforcement and economic. There are many aspects to think, and I think the country is waiting for the president to lay that out.

BOLDUAN: Yeah, I mean, and we talk about kind of how does the U.S. government respond, Juliette. I mean, the State Department has just put out a video, kind of -- I don't know if we can say it's to counter this social media apparatus of ISIS, but it's a gruesome video trying to lay out the brutality of ISIS. We can't even show you the whole thing because it's so gruesome. Is it effective? Is this the attempt for the U.S. to step it up, to kind of take it to them on these multiple battlefield fronts?

KAYYEM: It might be, over time. It's worked in our history as sort of, you know, pushing back on propaganda.

I think what we have to remember, we're not going to beat social media -- it is too pervasive; it's too easily utilized -- by thinking about beating it through technology. We have to beat it through messaging. And the messaging may be convincing our allies to get engaged with the fight with ISIS or ISIL. And it may be sort of portraying another image of what it is to be young and disenfranchised in many of these countries.

So this is a long-term propaganda campaign. But to -- to Fran's point about a strategy, the strategy cannot be -- and it's not -- that we're going to fight them on social media. It's just one way in which ISIS is much -- much different than al Qaeda. It is more sophisticated on the propaganda side than we ever saw al Qaeda. Part of that is just because technology has gotten better.

BOLDUAN: And that is very true. It's gotten better and it gets exponentially better every year in a shorter and shorter time span; that's absolutely right.

Interesting -- interesting and terrifying all the same, you can say that. Juliette Kayyem, great to see you. Fran, always great to see you. Thanks so much.

All right. Chris Christie goes south of the border. He heads to Mexico but also tells reporters to back off. Don't ask me about immigration, at least not yet. How long can Chris Christie get away with that answer? INSIDE POLITICS is taking a look at it next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: All right. Almost half past the hour here on NEW DAY. Let's give you a look at your headlines. We're watching breaking news.

The plane carrying the third American infected with Ebola has landed in Omaha, Nebraska. Dr. Rick Sacra is expected to arrive at the Nebraska Medical Center within the next half hour. He will be treated there for the virus in the hospital's biomedical containment unit. Dr. Sacra contracted the virus while working in Liberia.

Happening now, Day Two of the closely watched crucial NATO summit. Leaders there trying to hammer out strategies to destroy ISIS and figure out if security forces will stay in Afghanistan. British Prime Minister David Cameron also leveled sharp criticism at Russia, saying, quote, "it's trampling illegally over Ukraine." Separately, talks for a possible cease-fire in Ukraine, Eastern Ukraine, are under way right now. Apple rolling out some new security measures after nude photos of

several female celebrities were leaked online. The company told "The Wall Street Journal" it will use e-mail and push notifications to alert users of activities that could be signs of a security breach. After a launching an investigation, Apple says hackers were able to force their way into the photo collections through phishing attempts.

You know, it's so interesting to me -- you have to be so savvy. And most of us? We have a rudimentary idea what we're doing on the interwebs and with our devices. We have to be so savvy and so vigilant.