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@THISHOUR WITH BERMAN AND MICHAELA

Has Obama Ruled Out Ground Troops in Iraq?; Al Qaeda Leader Killed in Somalia; Cease-fire in Ukraine; Obama Speaks at NATO Summit

Aired September 5, 2014 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I think it's a real coalition in the sense of commitment. What each one contributes is going to be, I think, open to question.

But we are coming to the conclusion now of what many believe is the most important NATO summit in decades, because it is an attempt now to do something what's called out of area, Wolf, as you know, to go beyond the NATO borders themselves and try to deal with ISIS through this kind of coalition -- and a coalition that will expand to include Middle Eastern countries such as Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and the Emirates.

That is a very big, vast coalition. Hard to manage. The fact is that the President of the United States who was so reluctant to commit troops and forces is now -- really seems to be moving toward committing forces, U.S. air strikes seem very likely. We'll have to wait and hear what the president says, but it seems like he's talking about air strikes not only in Iraq, but also in Syria. That's an escalation, a serious escalation for President Obama.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: He has definitely ruled out combat ground troops either in Iraq or Syria.

GERGEN: Yes. That's right, Wolf, and I think that's what gives pause here is this is a very complex coalition, without a lot of U.S. troops on the ground. When we put together that coalition back there to go after Saddam Hussein in Kuwait as you recall, that was secretary of state, Jim Bakker. We had a massive force to run. Here, the question you started with, just how much is each nation really going to contribute, is it a token or real? I think it's a big question.

We seem to be relying very heavily not just on the air strikes but on the idea that Iraqi forces, Kurdish forces can deal with ISIS in Iraq and that we can build up the moderate forces, opposition forces in Syria to go after ISIS on the ground there and also to counter Assad, that's a really complex set of operations, isn't it? Who is going to manage all of this, how is it going to be done? There are a lot of questions. This is very complicated stuff, but what I do think has been the big change is that President Obama seems to be moving, not on Ukraine, but on ISIS, to a much more muscular place.

BLITZER: He seems to be moving in that direction and we'll get a by the -- better hint in the coming minutes. Barbara Starr is at the Pentagon.

What are you hearing there at the Pentagon, Barbara? I know U.S. military planners have all sorts of military contingencies they have presented to the White House. The president is saying I don't want to have combat boots on the ground.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: It's very public that they have collecting targeting information on ISIS, on the Iraq side of the border and right along the border of Syria. What they are looking for are the likely ISIS targets they could strike from the air if it comes to that, if the president authorizes air strikes inside Syria. The Pentagon would tell you and we've heard it from defense secretary, Chuck Hagel, from the chairman of the Joint Chiefs.

One of big lessons over the last 13 years or so is certainly air power alone does not defeat an enemy and as for ground troops, I think there's a great deal of ambiguities, to put it mildly, about putting ground troops on there because you don't want it to look once again a U.S. military operation, invading the Middle East and imposing U.S. will. It's one of key reasons they want a military coalition here. They want other countries to get involved. They want other countries to really step up to the plate. What NATO is doing today and these allies of NATO, a first step, but as David Gergen says, you have to see what they are really going to contribute at the end of the day.

BLITZER: Barbara, we're just getting this information in -- and I want to be precise on what the Pentagon is now saying -- is that the top al Qaeda leader in Somalia was killed in that most recent U.S. air strike, those drone hell fire missions I believe that were launched against fighters in Somalia. Someone named Godane (ph) had been killed. The U.S. has confirmed that this al Qaeda leader in Somalia was killed in this most recent round of U.S. targeted air strikes. Have you been hearing those kinds of words and are able to report that officially?

STARR: If the Pentagon, Wolf, has put out a statement, what it means is they now have the intelligence that is certain enough to their satisfaction. There's been a number of missions to try to kill Godane (ph) in recently months and years and he has escaped at previous attacks. He has been the leader of the al-Shabaab movement, it is a critical affiliate of al Qaeda, a group that has brought untold misery to tens of thousands of soma Somalian. Most notably, involved in the West gate shopping mall in Kenya, in Nairobi some weeks back.

Our understanding is it's been difficult to confirm because they didn't put U.S. troops on the ground when the strike happened to try and confirm it, you know, eyeball sight on the ground when the attack happened. They have been mainly relying on Somalian intelligence and operatives in that part of Somalia. That's one of the reasons it's taken so long to have that certainty. And it looks now like he has been killed by the U.S.

BLITZER: The U.S. now confirming. Quickly, Barbara, when you ask officials at the Pentagon or elsewhere in the U.S. national security community about whether or not the president has authorized similar targeted assassinations of ISIS leaders in Iraq and Syria to launch missiles and strikes to kill specific leaders of ISIS in Iraq and Syria, ISIS, is that authorized right now? Has that already been approved by the president of the United States?

STARR: That is the most fascinating question of all, Wolf. The leader of ISIS, a man named al-Baghdadi, said to be operating, hiding if you will, inside Syria, in northern Syria, well away from what he knows are current U.S. air strikes, so here's where we are.

Sources tell us that the U.S. military right now is not doing targeted air strikes. They are not going after people by name, if you will. That is the U.S. military. The question of course that is not being publicly addressed is whether the CIA which also operates drones, very well understood, very public knowledge, whether CIA drones are going after targeted, named persons in any strikes they may carry out.

But the bottom line we have been told is if the U.S. had the intelligence on where al-Baghdadi was, if they had some certainty that he was at a location, the U.S. intelligence operatives, the Pentagon, the U.S. national security leadership would go to the president and get that authorization to go after him. It's something that could happen very quickly and it is always possible that President Obama has preauthorized this to the CIA. It can be done.

There are lists, the target to kill list that the U.S. has of key al Qaeda operatives and terrorist leaders around the world. The President of the United States can preauthorize and then when the target emerges, when they feel they have the information, when they feel they can launch that strike and go after him, it could happen very quickly. But as you can understand, it's not something the CIA talks about -- Wolf?

BLITZER: I'm sure, based on what I've heard, it wouldn't just be trying to assassinate to kill al-Baghdadi, the ISIS commander, but there are a whole bunch of other commanders that the U.S. would like to assassinate, to kill as well especially if they get confirmation who beheaded those two American journalists. I'm sure they would be on that targeted kill list as well.

Stand by, Barbara.

I want to bring in Nile Gardiner, director of the Heritage Foundation's Margaret Thatcher Center for Freedom, and our foreign affairs analyst now.

What do you think the way the president of the United States -- we're about to hear from him -- about to have a news conference wrapping up, this very important NATO summit, what do you think about the deliberate, cautious approach he's taking? He doesn't want to rush into thinking. He wants to make sure that if the United States is going to engage in a new war, which in effect this is a new war, that all of the operation is well planned, there's an exit strategy, he does it the right way?

NILE GARDINER, CNN FOREIGN AFFAIRS ANALYST & DIRECTOR, MARGARET THATCHER CENTER FOR FREEDOM: I think so far President Obama has been far too cautious, and I think today, international leaders, NATO leaders, will be looking to President Obama to demonstrate some real leadership. We have already seen the beginning of an international coalition being formed, an extremely important development.

So far, we haven't seen any clear strategy being outline by President Obama or the Obama administration with regard to further action in Iraq and Syria. I think this speech he's going to make now, his statements will be very important as leaders across Europe, across the free world look to the United States to see in which direction the president is going to be moving. But already, in the background, in Britain, for example, there are operations for -- preparations for the U.K. to join military action against ISIS in Iraq and possibly Syria as well. There have been very close consultations between London and Washington the past couple of days. I think we may see some further developments this morning.

BLITZER: I totally agree. This is going to be a very important statement that the president will make. He will open the news conference with a statement, then he will answer reporters' questions.

Everybody stand by. Our special coverage will resume right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: I'm Wolf Blitzer, in Washington, and this is CNN special live coverage. We want to once again welcome our viewers around the United States and around the world.

We're waiting for President Obama he's due to speak any moment now.

Along with the terror threat posed in Iraq, Syria, and indeed around the globe by ISIS militants and other al Qaeda affiliates, the transatlantic alliance has been focused on Russia's meddling in Ukraine, all this as a new cease-fire between Ukraine's government and separatists leaders has apparently gone into effect.

Let's bring in CNN's Reza Sayah, joining us from Kiev. Reza, what is the status of this cease-fire?

REZA SAYAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It seems to be holding, Wolf, and that's perhaps some much needed good news for President Obama, unless something goes terribly wrong here in Ukraine in the coming minutes, in the coming hours. This could be potentially a huge load off of President Obama's shoulder and one crisis off his crisis plate, if you will, at least for the time being. At least he gets a chance maybe to rest on this particular crisis. Tremendous pressure building on the president over the past couple of weeks, pressure coming from Congress, from some western capitals and here in Kiev, for President Obama, to do something, for what many describe as a Russian invasion on to southeastern Ukraine, but now you have the cease-fire that was signed by both sides of this conflict, about two hours and 40 minutes ago.

It went into effect at 6:00 p.m. local time, about 40 minutes ago, and so far, it seems to be holding. We're working to confirm the conditions, the framework, with this agreement, but it obviously includes an end to all military operations in southeastern Ukraine, the pulling out of troops, the establishment of a humanitarian corridor, the exchanging of soldiers captured on both sides and the positioning of international monitors who would make sure that all these conditions will be met. This is a plan that received a lot of skepticism and criticism from western capitals, members of Congress. Many called it a ploy by Russia, by Vladimir Putin to perhaps avoid more sanctions and build more time. Even so, the cease-fire has been established.

BLITZER: It's been established. We'll see if it holds.

Thanks very much, Reza. We'll get back to you.

I want to bring in Christiane Amanpour right now. Christiane, you know the United States and several European countries were set to bring a new round of punishing economic sanctions against Russia. Is there in your mind, some sort of connection, a cease-fire just announced by the various factions over there, and what we were anticipating, a new round of tough sanctions that the president was getting ready to announce?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, let's see what he says, but certainly we've heard from NATO summit, from Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany that there is no letter on the planning of new sanctions. They could always suspend them, cancel if, in fact, this cease-fire takes hold. I just finished interviewing the U.N. secretary-general, who told me that actions speak louder than words, they are going to go ahead. He talked about a whole new consensus on unity, tougher words and deeds by the NATO alliance. He said that, you know, they did come together very determined to come out with a unified and strong voice.

We also talked about ISIS. Because that's the other big issue dominating this summit, and of course, with all the -- let's say the criticism, the waffling that went on about whether the U.S. had a strategy to confront ISIS, now we're being told that there is a strategy, that it is to form a coalition and as Rasmussen told me that the allies have decided to form a coalition, not to degrade, but to defeat ISIS. He said they would help Iraq and anywhere else it was necessary, even said and definitely implied that there is a growing consensus that the battle may have to be taken into Syria as well.

So very interesting developments coming out of this summit which we all have declared was a crucial one at this particular time given these twin, massive challenges to world order, Russia and Ukraine and of course ISIS in the Middle East. Let's see what the president says but it looks like they have at least decided to announce quite a lot of progress.

BLITZER: Stand by for a moment. Very quickly, before I let you, stand by, because we're only seconds away from the president walking in, did the NATO secretary-general say that NATO is ready, unlike might be ready to provide boots on the ground, combat troops to defeat ISIS? AMANPOUR: No, he didn't. That's not just a U.S. position. It's a

position that many NATO allies and many others are also saying. We don't want to put boots on the ground. Of course, it has been pointed out, there are military inside Iraq in many advisory capacities but in terms of a ground invasion, like the Iraq war or anything like that, no one is talking about that at all at this point, and here is the really interesting thing.

There is this thing called what the market will bear. The measuring, in other words -- the market, in other words, popular opinion will not bear boots on the ground, but is continuing -- it is beginning to look like it will bear the idea of a bigger effort to defeat ISIS in Iraq and Syria. That's been shown in the U.S., and England and Great Britain and elsewhere. It looks like that's where they are headed right now. He did say to me it's not just a military goal and a military effort to defeat ISIS, but it has to be political, humanitarian, it has to have many, many components.

BLITZER: Because most of the military experts believe that you could degrade, you could certainly undermine ISIS, but you can't really destroy or defeat ISIS unless you have combat forces that go in there.

AMANPOUR: That's right.

BLITZER: Now, in Iraq, you do have an Iraqi military, you have the Peshmerga, the Kurdish fighters who are excellent fighters. If given enough support, they might be able to get the job done. In Syria, they are relatively modest in their capabilities. You don't want to strengthen al-Nusra another terrorist group. They are considered a terrorist organization at the same time.

AMANPOUR: Well, Wolf, that's all true, but the problem is and many people are now beginning to agree with this, after dismissed ISIS as a J.V. team is what President Obama did in a newspaper interview earlier, having accused people who believe ISIS had to be taken on as trigger happy, having said that any idea of arming and training and supporting a moderate opposition may have made a difference is a fantasy.

Now, the very same president and his allies have actually got to go to that root. They actually have to do what has been suggested several years ago which is to build up the best option on the ground, a moderate opposition to take on ISIS because they don't want to do it and they won't do it, the U.S. and the NATO allies. ISIS has been fighting -- rather the Free Syrian Army has been fighting ISIS and they have been fighting the more extremists, but they haven't had the wherewithal to get the job done as they have told me. We can keep fighting but we can't win without the kind of support that we've been begging for.

BLITZER: And the U.S. -- several and other allies, countries are reluctant to provide those weapons, because they're afraid they could wind up in the hands of terrorists, whether ISIS or al Nusra or other terrorist groups.

The president is about to walk in, into the room over their in Wales, wrapping up this NATO summit. Momentarily, we'll hear from him. In fact, here he is right now.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Good afternoon.

Let me begin by thanking my great friend, Prime Minister Cameron, and his entire team for hosting this NATO summit and making it such a success. And I want to thank the people of Newport and Cardiff, and the people of Wales for welcoming me and my delegation so warmly.

It's a great honor to be the first sitting U.S. president to visit Wales. We've met at a time of transition and a time of testing. After more than a decade, NATO's combat mission in Afghanistan is coming to an end. Russia's aggression against Ukraine threatens our vision of a Europe that is whole, free, and at peace. In the Middle East, the terrorist threats from ISIL poses a growing danger.

Here at this summit, our alliance has summoned the will, the resources, and the capabilities to meet all of these challenges.

First and foremost, we have reaffirmed the central mission of the alliance. Article Five enshrines our solemn duty to each other. An armed attack against one shall be considered an attack against them all. This is a binding treaty obligation. It is non-negotiable. And here in Wales, we've left absolutely no doubt we will defend every ally.

Second, we agreed to be resolute in reassuring our allies in eastern Europe. Increased NATO air patrols over the Baltics will continue. Rotations of additional forces throughout eastern Europe for training and exercises will continue. Naval patrols in the Black Sea will continue. And all 28 NATO nations agree to contribute to all of these measures for as long as necessary.

Third, to ensure that NATO remains prepared for any contingency, we agreed to a new readiness action plan. The alliance will update its defense planning. We will create a new highly ready rapid response force that can be deployed on a very short notice. We'll increase NATO's presence in central and eastern Europe with additional equipment, training, exercises, and troop rotations. And the $1 billion initiative that I announced in Warsaw will be a strong and ongoing U.S. contribution to this plan.

Fourth, all 28 NATO nations have pledged to increase their investments in defense and to move toward investing 2 percent of their GDP in our collective security. These resources will help NATO invest in critical capabilities, including intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance, and missile defense.

And this commitment makes clear that NATO will not be complacent. Our alliance will reverse the decline in defense spending and rise to meet the challenges that we face in the 21st century.

Fifth, our alliance is fully united in support of Ukraine's sovereignty, independence, and territorial integrity, and its right to defend itself. To back up this commitment, all 28 NATO allies will now provide security assistance to Ukraine. This includes nonlethal support to the Ukrainian military like body armor, fuel, and medical care for wounded Ukrainian troops, as well as assistance to help modernize Ukrainian forces, including logistics and command and control.

Here in Wales, we also sent a strong message to Russia that actions have consequences. Today the United States and Europe are finalizing measures to deepen and broaden our sanctions across Russia's financial, energy, and defense sectors.

At the same time, we strongly support President Poroshenko's efforts to pursue a peaceful resolution to the conflict in his country.

The cease-fire announced today can advance that goal, but only if there is follow-through on the ground. Pro-Russian separatists must keep their commitments, and Russia must stop its violations of Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity.

Beyond Europe, we pay tribute to all those from our ISAF mission, including more than 2,200 Americans who have given their lives for our security in Afghanistan.

NATO's combat mission ends in three months, and we are prepared to transition to a new mission focused on training, advising, and assisting Afghan security forces. Both presidential candidates have pledged to sign the bilateral -- bilateral security agreement that would be the foundation of our continued cooperation.

But as we all know, the outcome of the recent election must be resolved. And so, we continue to urge the two presidential candidates to make the compromises that are necessary, so Afghans can move forward together and form a sovereign, united and democratic nation.

Finally, we reaffirm that the door to NATO membership remains open to nations that can meet our high standards. We agreed to expand the partnership that makes NATO the hub of global security. We're launching a new effort with our closest partners, including many that have served with us in Afghanistan, to make sure our forces continue to operate together. And we'll create a new initiative to help countries build their defense capabilities, starting with Georgia, Moldova, Jordan and Libya.

I also leave here confident that NATO allies and partners are prepared to join in a broad international effort to combat the threat posed by ISIL. Already -- already, allies have joined us in Iraq, where we have stopped ISIL's advances. We've equipped our Iraqi partners and help them go on offense. NATO has agreed to play a role in providing security and humanitarian assistance to those who are on the front lines.

Key NATO allies stand ready to confront this terror threat through military, intelligence, and law enforcement, as well as diplomatic efforts. Secretary Kerry will now travel to the region to continue building the broad-based coalition that will enable us to degrade and ultimately destroy ISIL.

So taken together, I think the progress we've achieved in Wales makes it clear that our alliance will continue to do whatever is necessary to ensure our collective defense and to protect our citizens.

So with that, let me take a few questions. I'll start with Julie Pace of Associated Press.

QUESTION: Thank you, Mr. President.

I wanted to go back to the situation in Ukraine. Is this cease- fire does take effect and appears to be holding, would you and your European counterparts back away from these sanctions that you say you've prepared? Or do you feel that it's important to levy these sanctions regardless of this cease-fire agreement?

And if I could go back to the rapid response force, can you say specifically what U.S. contributions will be in terms of troop numbers and equipment? Is it beyond the agreement that you announced -- the proposal you announced in Warsaw?

OBAMA: With respect to the cease-fire agreement, obviously we are hopeful. But based on past experience, also skeptical that in fact the separatists will follow through and the Russians will stop violating Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity. So it has to be tested. And I note that the Europeans are discussing at this point the final shape of their sanctions measures.

It's my view that if you look at President Poroshenko's plan, it is going to take some time to implement. And as a consequence, for us to move forward based on what is currently happening on the ground with sanctions, while acknowledging that if in fact the elements of the plan that has been cited are implemented, then those sanctions could be lifted, is a more likely way for us to ensure that there's follow through. But that's something that obviously we'll consult closely with our European partners to determine.

I do want to point out, though, that the only reason that we're seeing this cease-fire at this moment is because of both the sanctions that have already been applied and the threat of further sanctions, which are having a real impact on the Russian economy and have isolated Russia in a way that we have not seen in a very long time.

The path for Russia to rejoin the community of nations that respects international law is still there. And we encourage President Putin to take it. But the unity and the firmness that we've seen in the trans-Atlantic alliance in supporting Ukraine and applying sanctions has been I think a testimony to how seriously people take the basic principle that big countries can't just stomp on little countries or force them to change their policies and -- and give up their sovereignty.

So, I'm very pleased with the kind of work that's been done throughout this crisis in Ukraine and I think U.S. leadership has been critical throughout that process.

With respect to the rapid response forces and the readiness action plan that we've put forward, in Warsaw I announced $1 billion in our initiative. A sizable portion of that will be devoted to implementing various aspects of this -- this readiness action plan.