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CNN NEWSROOM

U.K. Raises Terror Threat Level to Severe; ISIS Must Be Confronted

Aired August 29, 2014 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: There's no doubt about it. It's a very, very tough problem. And I thought one of the most interesting things that the Prime Minister said is he mentioned now that this jihadi threat basically takes you right up against the southern flank of NATO. It takes you into the Mediterranean. That becomes one of the big problems because then these people can move through Europe, through many European countries and it becomes very difficult to track them even further.

That notion of ISIS being able to penetrate to the Mediterranean, to penetrate the southern flank of NATO is actually a point that General Martin Dempsey, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs made just a week ago. So I think it's pretty clear now that these travel patterns are one of the big issues. This is one of the things that they're looking at and how they can keep better track of these people and how they move around -- Carol.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Well, that's why -- that's why I mentioned military action. It seems like the United States is going to go it alone, but to control that, right, because ISIS, you know, in Iraq is spilling over the border into Syria, and it's creating its own state. So you have to do something about that, don't you, Josh?

JOSH ROGIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, absolutely. I mean, General Martin Dempsey said last week that there's no way to defeat ISIS without confronting the group in Syria and President Obama said we just haven't figured out exactly how we're going to go about that.

The bottom line here is that the White House's policy for three and a half years has been to avoid direct intervention in the Syrian civil war and that's done for a lot of reasons, most of them being that we don't feel confident or the President doesn't feel confident that U.S. action there would contribute positively to the result of that conflict. But the increasing evidence, especially as told by our senior military officials, is that Syria is really where ISIS resides. They hold the majority of their equipment, resources, oil fields, lots of American-made weaponry, entire cities really. And it's where they are expanding and it's where they are fighting the most.

COSTELLO: Right.

ROGIN: So that's a problem that's eventually going to have to be confronted one way or the other. We haven't figured it out yet.

COSTELLO: And not just by the United States, but by Britain as well. We're going to talk more about that. I know Brian Todd is working his sources. He has new information.

So I have to take a break. When we come back, we'll get right to Brian Todd. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID CAMERON, U.K. PRIME MINISTER: The cause of the threat to our security is quite clear. It is a poisonous ideology of Islamist extremism that is condemned by all faiths and by all faith leaders.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: All right. He's talking about ISIS. That was the British Prime Minister.

Britain has raised its terror threat level to severe which means a terror attack is highly likely although not imminent.

Let's go back to our panel. We're providing special coverage to you until the top of the hour. You could see we've got many experts to give their insights and I'm excited about that.

Let's start with Brian Todd. I know you've been working your sources because the big concern of Britain is extremism within its borders. And of course, the United States has that same problem to a lesser degree. What have you found out?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Carol, in recent days, intelligence officials here in the United States have been telling us of their increasing concern about ISIS fighters from the west, the United States and Europe, coming back and launching possible attacks here on the U.S. homeland but also within Europe.

In recent days, a U.S. intelligence official told us that ISIS has cells in Europe. That could be what played into the decision to raise the terror threat level in Britain today. We're not sure of that yet. But the U.S. intelligence official did tell us that ISIS does have cells in Europe. What's not clear is if those operatives of ISIS were directed by the ISIS leadership to actually go to Europe and form cells and engage in possible terrorist planning or if they did it on their own. But there are cells of ISIS in Europe.

U.S. intelligence officials say that there is no evidence right now that there are ISIS cells in the United States, but it is an increasing concern, Carol. And now, of course, we know that at least one American and possibly two have died in recent days fighting among the ranks of ISIS in Syria.

We got word earlier this week that American Douglas McCain who is from San Diego and Minnesota was killed fighting with ISIS in Syria. Possibly a second American was killed also alongside him. That raises a lot of concerns among U.S. intelligence officials. They have been kind of pounding this drum for weeks now with us saying look, all these people have U.S. passports or European passports. They don't need visas to come back into Europe or the United States. They can come back here fairly easily and once they get back here, you know, they could engage in some planning.

We do know of also one man from Florida who went to Syria with the al Nusra front, an al Qaeda linked group. Came back to Florida and then went back to Syria and blew himself up in a suicide bombing. All of those things really raise the level of concern among intelligence officials in Europe and the United States -- Carol.

COSTELLO: And that's very unsettling to many Americans, Ron Brownstein. And I couldn't help notice the difference in the speeches given by the British Prime Minister and President Obama. The British Prime Minister went through concrete steps that the country is taking to keep its citizens safe. President Obama yesterday said that it's not ready. But you know what he said, we don't have a strategy to deal with ISIS in Syria and as far as we know the terror threat has -- the terror threat level has not been raised in this country. So it doesn't appear that these extremists within our borders are creating a security risk, but again back to the contrast between the two leaders.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Right. I mean look for the reasons we discussed, the domestic situation is different. Britain is facing a situation where many more of their people have been fighting with ISIS and there's a greater risk of people coming back with passports.

But I guess I was struck by the commonality in a broader sense. If you look at the Prime Minister's statement, it really captured the contradiction or the tension at the root of the response, not only in the U.K. and the U.S., but across the West of this threat. Because on the one hand, you heard this very ominous language about the depth of the threat, on the other you heard an insistence that they are not going to be militarily involved in directly confronting the heart of the threat in Iraq and Syria. And we heard reference to the vote last year in the House of Commons which refused to endorse military action in Syria.

That is the first time a Prime Minister had lost a vote on an issue of war and peace since the 18th century. And it reflected the broad disillusionment with the result of the interventions in Afghanistan and Iraq that is still looming over every Western leader including President Obama with a lot of uncertainty about whether if he did go to Congress and say look, let's take this on directly not only in Iraq but Syria whether Congress would say yes.

So I think in some ways with Cameron, you saw the same political constraints that are evident here at home and which are largely as a result of the disillusionment of the outcome in Iraq and Afghanistan. It has really reduced the confidence of these publics across the West that military intervention can ultimately produce the results that we want.

COSTELLO: Yes. Interestingly, and I did notice that, I don't know whether Erin McLaughlin in London because the Prime Minister began his speech by saying --- we lost Erin McLaughlin? Ok. Well, we'll continue talking about this with Michelle Kosinski then. The Prime Minister began his speech by saying this problem with ISIS was not created by the Iraq war. So I certainly think Ron Brownstein is on to something -- Michelle.

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Right. And you know, a couple of things really jumped out here. I mean first of all, when he kind of framed the scope of the problem as it affects the U.K. directly today. He said that at least 500 people in the U.K. have gone to Syria and possibly Iraq to fight. He said that the number of Syria-related arrests since last year has increased five-fold.

So he's laying out the numbers on how this is a direct threat to the U.K. homeland, but it was really interesting when he was talking about what we're going to do. He said that we support the U.K. air strikes. We're going to keep arming the Kurds. We're going to do that. Let's help the U.S. with -- and then he said intelligence. It almost seemed like he was going to lead up to saying we're going to help the U.S. with those air strikes. But he really and very noticeably stopped short of saying that.

So he wants to have this tough response, but he doesn't want to go too far. He knows the response that he could get from parliament, but he also knows the political pressure there. A lot of pressure lately, this nationalistic sentiment that's been growing, very much anti- immigration and you can see that he wants to strike a balance there, Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Michelle Kosinski, many thanks to you. Stick around. I have to take another break. We'll be back with much more in the NEWSROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: All right. Welcome back to the NEWSROOM. I'm Carol Costello. This is special coverage of breaking news out of Britain. The British Prime Minister is saying that Britain has raised its terror threat level to severe in light of the threat from ISIS and extremism within its own borders. There are a lot of developments today that I would like to go down for you that I'd like to list for you and I want to bring in Brian Todd to help me do that.

Some of the developments today that concern both the United States and Britain and the world frankly was that ISIS released another horrible propaganda tape which shows the execution of 200 Syrian soldiers. It's just -- I couldn't even watch it, it was so brutal. Also, we learn from the "Washington Post" that James Foley when he was being held captive by ISIS was water boarded along with other hostages. What more can you tell us, Brian?

TODD: Carol, these were examples of how ISIS one of most savvy terrorist organizations that we've seen as far as getting its message out and using symbolism to strike fear in the hearts of all of its enemies in the West and elsewhere. These videos that you talked about, with James Foley and others in these orange jumpsuits -- they are doing that to evoke images of Guantanamo Bay. The execution videos that you mentioned, yesterday of the Syrian troops and we've seen these videos from Iraq and elsewhere, these mass execution videos. They seem to put them out almost every week.

They do that in a very calculated strategy. We're told that ISIS has incredible organization really from the top down. Its leader Abu Bakr al Baghdadi, one analyst told me, he's a narcissistic psychopath. He wants to be bigger than Osama bin Laden in the pantheon of terror and jihadist leaders. How does he get to this point? By putting out videos like this, but also by having the aspiration to attack Europe and the United States -- that's how he gets to the level of bin Laden. He wants that. And he probably won't stop until he gets to that point.

And so counterterrorism officials, analysts and others here are telling us that that is something that they are watching very closely. And that's what makes ISIS so frightening at this point -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Absolutely. Brian Todd -- thanks so much.

The British Prime Minister did bring up the brutal beheading of the American, James Foley and cited his as part -- cited what happened to him as part of the reason they raised that terror level.

Let's talk about James Foley and that desperate plea from the family of current U.S. captive Steven Sotloff. Both have sparked scrutiny of the U.S. policy regarding freeing hostages.

I want to bring in Sarah Shourd. She knows all about their plight. She was held hostage for a year by the Iranian government from 2009 until 2010 and she believes the United States needs to do whatever it can to bring these Americans home. Sarah Shourd joins me now from Oakland. Welcome, Sarah.

SARAH SHOURD, HELD HOSTAGE BY IRAN: It's great to be here.

COSTELLO: It's great to have you here. Thank you so much.

You say Steven Sotloff's situation should never have reached this point. What do you mean by that?

SHOURD: Well, I would like to think that there is still hope for Sotloff. But it really never should have gotten to this point. He's been detained for over a year -- held hostage by the Islamic State. Foley was held for over two years and as we know, tortured during that time.

It's in the really early stages that it's more likely that we can save Americans from the fate of Foley and the potential fate that Sotloff faces. And I believe that the European Union is willing to really safeguard the work that European journalists and humanitarians are doing in the Middle East by paying a ransom if they have to. In the overall equation, they see the work that their citizens are doing and their lives is valuable enough to do what they can early on before it gets to this point.

COSTELLO: Well, you know, it's a terrible double-edged sword, because if you pay ransom to these terrorists, you fund their operations.

SHOURD: I understand that that's part of the equation, but in the overall big picture, we have to allow Americans, journalists, humanitarian workers, to do the important and vital work they do in the Middle East. And the only way to make it possible is to have their backs when it comes down to saving their lives and bringing them home.

There are still at least two, if not three more Americans in Syria, being held by the Islamic State. One of them is a 26-year-old woman who was a humanitarian worker in a hospital. And I think that it's not too late for these people. That our government should do whatever it can to get them out, to bring them home.

COSTELLO: I would like to ask you about military action by the United States and maybe Britain, although I don't think that's going to happen. And you don't have to answer it if you don't want to, but do you think that the United States should go ahead and conduct air strikes over Syria to combat ISIS?

SHOURD: I am very hesitant to condone any kind of bombing by the U.S. I will say that it seems to have emboldened the Kurds to take back the Mosul Dam -- the Iraqi Kurds. But once you start though, you can't stop. You'll look weak. It looks like the Islamic State has won.

There are many other ways. I think the U.S. government needs to think very creatively. We have an obligation to play a role in stopping the Islamic State. This is not just about two or three American lives which are very important. But the Islamic State has brutally murdered thousands of Iraqis and Syrians and we contributed greatly to the conditions that gave rise to the Islamic State by military intervention in Iraq.

So I think we have an obligation to play a role but to think creatively. One possibility is to arm the Iraqi Peshmerga -- the Kurdish soldiers that are very strong fighters but very underfunded. They have to buy their own rifles and ammunitions. I think that the -- and that's just one possibility. I think that we are obligated to play a role but that we need to think very smart and very creatively about how to do that so we don't get in too deep and make this problem even bigger.

COSTELLO: All right. Sarah Shourd, thank you so much for being with me this morning. I appreciate it.

SHOURD: Thank you so much for having me.

COSTELLO: Absolutely. I'll be right back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAMERON: We've all been shocked and sickened by the barbaric murder of American journalist James Foley and by the voice of what increasingly seems to have been a British terrorist recorded on that video. It was clear evidence, not that any more was needed, that this is not some foreign conflict thousands of miles from home that we can hope to ignore. The ambition to create an extremist caliphate in the heart of Iraq and Syria is a threat to our own security here in the U.K.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: All right. We've been telling you about Britain raising its threat level to severe which means a terrorist attack is highly likely. So I want to button things up because we've been providing you special coverage this morning.

And in the three minutes I have left, Josh, I want to go to you to put this in perspective, because often what happens in Britain mirrors what might happen in the United States. So button this up for us.

ROGIN: Sure. The threat of ISIS coming back to the homeland is more real for Britain right now than it is for the United States. But it is the same challenge, the same problem. They are a little bit ahead of us in dealing with it. They are a little bit ahead of us in talking about it. But it's the same thing and eventually we're going to have to deal with it and talk about it the same way that Prime Minister Cameron did today.

COSTELLO: Ron, you agree?

BROWNSTEIN: I agree, I mean I think it's very clear, there's no one who wants to go back into the Middle East. But as the Prime Minister's announcement is an indication, the pressure is only going to grow. On a menu of unpalatable, unattractive options allowing ISIS to control a whole territory increasingly is going to look like the least acceptable of all.

COSTELLO: Ok. Let's head to the White House and check in with Michelle Kosinski. We know the President gave, you know -- he answered reporters' questions yesterday, I should say. Might he pop out again today?

KOSINSKI: It is possible. I mean, he is going to spend some time traveling, but keep in mind that a lot of what is presented is based on how things look. You know that U.S. administration doesn't want to necessarily alarm people and maybe take some of these same statements and same measures that the British are doing, to make it seem like there is some imminent threat here. What they are saying is they are taking it seriously. They are concerned about foreign fighters. Let's work on this and see what happens.

Britain also, when they heard that British voice in the James Foley video, that man standing next to him with a knife and Cameron now says it seems increasingly likely that he was a Brit, that absolutely terrified British citizens. They know they have a problem with cells there. They have had terrorist cells in the past. They feel like they need to act now, reassure people and really get on this because we know that the threat of foreign fighters returning is serious for not just the United States, not just Britain, but others as well -- Carol. COSTELLO: Absolutely, and Brian Todd we've been hearing that

authorities are close to identifying this Brit that was depicted in that horrible video. Are they any closer?

TODD: They said that this week, Carol, that they're getting close and then they seemed to kind of dial that back. And what we heard in back channels was that maybe they're not so close. So we're not really sure yet whether they are close to identifying that man, but -- and also, we have to say, there are some reports or some indications that there may be a second person in that videotape, that maybe the man who spoke before James Foley was killed was not the man who killed him -- all of that now being picked apart by intelligence officials.

COSTELLO: All right. Thanks to all of you. I sure appreciate it.

And thank you for joining me today. I'm Carol Costello.

"@THIS HOUR WITH BERMAN AND MICHAELA" after a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)