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CNN NEWSROOM

Interview With California Congressman Adam Schiff; The ISIS Threat; Ukraine Conflict Escalates

Aired August 28, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, top of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

And we will get you to the breaking news out of Ukraine, Ukraine deputy official saying Russia has launched this full-scale invasion.

But, first, the terrorist army ISIS once again is flaunting its uncompromising brutality. The group that beheaded American James Foley then took it upon itself to release this grisly image, multiple images of Foley's final moments.

Well, now they are claiming they have executed 250 Syrians. Let me just show you what we have. And just a warning. This is the gruesome death march of these Syrian soldiers purportedly taken just yesterday. As you are about to see, it gets worse, some 250 dead soldiers.

Here they are lined up next to one another after their brutal execution by the terrorist army ISIS. The people standing next to the bodies do not appear to be ISIS fighters and that the event was most likely recorded after ISIS had left the scene.

But just to be crystal clear, CNN cannot independently verify the authenticity of these videos, these photos. ISIS also today has released images shot in Iraq of captured Kurdish fighters. In the past, the orange jumpsuits have appeared to signal that the captives are bound for execution.

Here is the other big piece of the story today. President Obama is to convene his national security team at 4:00 Eastern, so about an hour from now. That is amid reports that he wants military options for ISIS pretty much right now.

So with me right now from Washington is Kimberly Dozier. She's our CNN global affairs analyst and The Daily Beast contributor.

Kimberly, do we have any idea what might happen at this meeting at the White House in an hour from now?

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: The president has been asking for military options to respond.

Some of his advisers have gotten a little frustrated with this and they said, we have been through this exercise many times and given him various different options ranging from increasing training to actually targeting some of the ISIS cells.

But with the pictures coming out of Syria, with the loss of U.S. journalist James Foley, it has now risen to a point where President Obama has decided he really needs to do something. Now, the U.S. national security apparatus has been putting something in place to try to follow through with whatever he decides. But it is a pretty nascent effort at this point.

BALDWIN: As the Obama administration tries to get some kind of plan in the works, it's interesting to note that there was a major leadership happening at CENTCOM, right? This is at the military command for that part of the world, Kimberly. Explain that.

DOZIER: Well, Admiral Bill McRaven is switching off with General Joe Votel. You have a changing of command at Special Operations.

But what this means is while the faces have changed, both of these men are former commanders of Joint Special Operations Command. Now, that is the counterterrorist arm of Special Operations, the people that brought you the Osama bin Laden raid, the raid that rescued two aid workers in Somalia and also tried to rescue Jim Foley.

It is clear to me that the White House and Pentagon understand while they need other parts of the special operations toolkit, the training and advise and assist piece, they are going to continue to need what they call direct action, where they go in and target terrorist networks and often take the leadership out.

BALDWIN: OK. Kimberly Dozier, thank you.

We just want to stay on this. As we mentioned, President Obama meeting with his national security team in the next hour, the topic being what to do about ISIS, especially as it pertains to Syria. The president is considering expanding that U.S. bombing campaign that began earlier this month in Iraq to possibly include ISIS in Syria and he reportedly wants that plan as soon as possible.

But also important to note, this is the guidance we have. No decision is expected in today's meeting. But you can bet members of Congress will want to have a say in this when they return from their August vacation next week.

Congressman Adam Schiff of California is a senior member of the House Intelligence Committee.

Congressman, welcome back.

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D), CALIFORNIA: Thank you. Good to be with you.

BALDWIN: So, Congressman, you are a Democrat. And you say that President Obama should not do anything until he gets your permission, congressional permission. Tell me why.

SCHIFF: Well, if the president has in mind to embark on a broad-scale military or air campaign in Syria, I think he will really need to come to Congress and seek our authorization. If this is something different, if there's another rescue attempt or

there's a very immediate threat, that's probably something he could act on under Article 2. But if the idea is to degrade ISIS through airstrikes, that is going to be a sustained effort and, frankly, it's one I'm skeptical about, because we don't have the same air -- we don't have the same ground infrastructure in Syria that we do in Iraq.

We don't have Peshmerga to work with. We don't have an Iraqi government to work with. We have a hostile Assad regime and we have a -- just a toxic brew of militants in Syria right now.

BALDWIN: I was going to get to the trust or maybe lack there of with some of these rebels in Syria.

But you mentioned a minute ago if there is an imminent threat, then it would be OK for the president to take action. Define imminent for me.

SCHIFF: Well, if, for example, we knew that there was a cell in Syria that was mounting an attack on our homeland, that plan was far advanced and they are essentially ready to pull the trigger on it, that's something you would expect the commander in chief to act on that without trying to convene the Congress and go through a lengthy debate about what an authorization would like.

That's well within his Article 2 power. But that doesn't sound like what we are talking about here. I think what the president will be discussing with the Security Council is, what are the military targets, what could we hit, what would be the impact, would will happen after?

And these are all going to be very hard questions in terms of making the case for airstrikes, because, right now, you have got ISIS fighting al Qaeda, the al-Nusra Front, the official al Qaeda franchise, who is fighting Hezbollah, who is fighting the Assad regime.

And so if we displace ISIS from a particular military site, who takes that over? Is that taken over by al-Nusra? And, if so, is that really of any benefit to us?

BALDWIN: How much confidence do you have in the rebels in Syria? Because it is one thing with all of the U.S.' knowledge fighting on the ground in Iraq, confidence in the Kurds. It's a much different game in Syria, is it not?

SCHIFF: It is. You are exactly right.

And I don't have much confidence. The rebel coalition, the so-called moderate rebels, many of them are not the least bit moderate. And none of them are really cohesive. So, they don't have the kind of staying power or organization that the Peshmerga or even the Iraqi forces have, which makes it a real problem and part of the reason why it has been difficult to vet opposition, because the opposition continues to shift in alliances and some who are fighting with al- Nusra may be fighting with ISIS tomorrow and some that may be fighting with so-called rebel forces may be fighting with al-Nusra next week. It is very difficult to pick a credible military force to work with

there.

BALDWIN: Congressman Schiff, let me actually -- let me just take a step back, because it seems that action, we are talking about this national security meeting in the White House in an hour, seems like that has really picked up since the beheading of American journalist James Foley.

But as we all know and you specially on the Intel Committee know, ISIS has been growing and seizing territory over the course of the last, what, six months. Was it James Foley's death that served as a catalyst to finally act militarily?

SCHIFF: I think it has been the catalyst. And I don't know whether it will be a catalyst ultimately to different military action. But I think, initially, it was this threat to the Kurds and Erbil and some of our personnel there.

It was that humanitarian crisis with the Yazidis. And then you add to it this gruesome execution. I think all of those things have mobilized the White House into looking at these options. But, at the same time, while these strikes in Iraq have been effective, the situation in Iraq is very different than Syria.

And I think, as the military leaders have warned about Syria, airstrikes alone, pinpoint strikes alone, we might be able to take out some of the military vehicles. We may or may not be able to take out some of the leadership, but that is not going to be any kind of a mid- or long-term solution.

BALDWIN: It's not enough.

SCHIFF: Not at all. Not at all.

BALDWIN: OK.

Congressman Adam Schiff, thank you so much. Come back. We appreciate you coming on very much.

SCHIFF: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Again, that national security team happening at the White House less than an hour from now.

Coming up next, we have to talk about this other huge story, a major escalation in the conflict between Russia and Ukraine. You have Ukrainian leaders releasing this video here, saying this is a Russian tank and Vladimir Putin has launched a -- quote, unquote -- "full- scale invasion."

Now we have this, new satellite images showing what appears to be numerous Russian tanks moving into Ukraine crossing that border. But Russian leaders say they can explain it. Wait until you hear what they saying, that explanation coming up.

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BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

It's getting worse in Ukraine. We are now getting word just in from Ukrainian officials who say 15 civilians have been killed in the city Donetsk in Eastern Ukraine, all of this despite what cameras caught just two days ago.

You see the handshake, much ado about this. Russia's President Vladimir Putin seen here shaking hands with Ukraine's president, Petro Poroshenko. Now intelligence shows that Russia is attacking Ukraine, and the Ukrainian deputy commander calling it a -- quote, unquote -- "full-scale invasion."

Right now, the United Nations is holding an emergency meeting about the crisis. And during this meeting -- we have been listening through the whole thing here and we have heard from U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. Samantha Power speaking about these pictures.

These are NATO satellite images that show Russian artillery in formation across the border inside Ukraine. And she talked about how Putin just met with Ukraine's leader.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAMANTHA POWER, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: President Putin spoke of the need to -- quote -- "end bloodshed as soon as possible" -- end quote.

Yet, the same day, satellite imagery show Russian combat units, combat units southeast of Donetsk in Eastern Ukraine. That same day in Luhansk, Ukraine detained regular Russian army personnel from the Ninth Brigade.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Russia, meantime, has denied supporting or arming troops in Ukraine.

So, let's take you to Diana Magnay. She is in one of those contested areas of Ukraine.

And, Diana, a U.S. official says as many as 1,000 Russian troops, not rebels, but Russians, are fighting inside Ukraine. How is Russia explaining this or are they even?

DIANA MAGNAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Russia denies it and has categorically denied that it has ever fueled this conflict in the east of Ukraine with fighters or with weapons.

But the evidence seems to prove overwhelmingly against it. A few days ago, we had 10 Russian paratroopers captured on Ukrainian soil. I am now down between -- in the city of Mariupol, which is about 30 kilometers from the Russian border, and a town between where I am now and the border has been taken over by Russian separatists backed up, local Ukrainian battalions tell me, by heavy Russian weaponry, Russian tanks, Russian military units.

And the commander of a battalion here said they make no pretense of the fact that they are Russian. Their vehicles, number plates are covered. And we have been routed from that town. And these troops were supported by artillery fire from across the border.

This is very serious, because it really opens up a new front for the Ukrainian army as they are trying to battle pro-Russian separatists further north around the cities of Donetsk and Luhansk. And they had succeeded over the past few weeks really, Brooke, is pushing the rebels down to a small area around those two cities.

But the opening up of this new front and the influx of Russian troops takes this conflict to a whole new dimension -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: How is Ukraine responding to this new front? How strong is the Ukrainian military?

MAGNAY: Well, the Ukrainian military is a pretty creaky, old Soviet- style military.

And Petro Poroshenko, the Ukrainian president, has said, we will be tough. We have what it takes. We must not panic in response to this new threat.

But, frankly, what we have seen on the ground, we saw volunteer battalions who have come in to try and help the national guard looking pretty bedraggled. We saw one convoy basically heading away from the conflict area. And they said that they have been asking for reinforcements and haven't got any.

So, frankly, certainly, in this part of the country, there doesn't seem to be much support or much sort of resistance if the Russians were to push over in greater numbers -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: All right, Diana Magnay for us in Ukraine, Diana, thank you very much.

Coming up, we told you about the American killed white fighting for the terror group ISIS in Syria. We will show you how these terror groups use recruitment videos to get other Americans to join.

And the man in the video compares the fighting to visiting Disney World. We will play that for you next.

Plus, Hillary Clinton making her very first public comments on the deadly shooting in Ferguson, Missouri. And we are getting more information about that audiotape that reportedly captured those gunshots that killed Michael Brown -- that new development next here on CNN.

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BALDWIN: New details today of this alleged audio of the shooting of Michael Brown confirmed to be recorded near the time he was killed some two, two-and-a-half weeks ago. The streaming app company called Glide authenticated it. CNN obtained

and reported on this audio Monday. And experts say you can hear these 10 shots in this piece of video. Just to remind you, CNN has not authenticated it. But here it is. Take a listen.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are pretty. You are so fine. I'm just going over some of your videos. How could I forget?

(GUNSHOTS)

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BALDWIN: All right, so I have HLN legal analyst Joey Jackson with me. Don Lemon, you originally broke the audio on "CNN TONIGHT."

And Now, Don, let me just begin with you. Talk to me about this apps authentication, this time stamp you are learning about.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: The app is called Glide.

And they authenticated it around the time of that shooting on August 9, which was 12:01 Central time. We had been reporting it happened right afternoon. According to this company, they believe that it is authentic. The FBI has the information and they are checking into it as well.

BALDWIN: OK. Joey Jackson, how does this change things in the investigation?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It is an important development, Brooke. And here's why.

Because in order for anything to be admissible in court, it has to be authenticated. Right? There's two real criteria. One is that it is relevant. And we certainly know and believe this is relevant. The other is that it is authentic, that we could rely upon it. So, at least now we know that it could be relied upon and could go into court.

Now, how it is used, Brooke, is always the open question.

BALDWIN: Because audio experts have said, take a listen to this audio. You hear this pause. It is quick, but it's a pause between the first six shots and the final four.

JACKSON: Sure.

BALDWIN: And you say, each side, defense and prosecution, will obviously take that and twist it to their own.

JACKSON: Oh, of course, Brooke.

What will happen is, is the prosecutor will say -- and it is relevant for a couple of reasons. The one is the magnitude of shots. If you're the prosecutor, you're arguing it is excessive force and it was unnecessary and it was unreasonable under these circumstances. There was no need for that to happen. And the pause indicates, if you're the prosecution, an intent to go further and to shoot and to kill.

If you're the defense, you're going to argue that there was an imminent threat, that Michael Brown posed this threat, that he was coming towards the officer. You see various versions of events. So, I think when you are looking at the tape, Brooke, you have to look at it in conjunction with other evidence, eyewitness evidence, forensic evidence, DNA evidence, gunpowder evidence.

All of that will play into how this tape is used and its value to either side.

BALDWIN: Don, I think it is just worth taking a step back and just reminding our viewers if they missed it how this audio came to be. How did you get this?

LEMON: The young man or the man was apparently recording -- he was a recording message. At first, they thought it was a video chat, which was interactive. It wasn't.

He was recording a message to someone, to a lady on this video messaging app called Glide. And so, as he was recording it, it was a 12-second -- he recorded 12 seconds of it -- he got the gunshots, inadvertently got the gunshots.

And I -- one of the -- someone contacted one of our producers earlier in the week and said that there was possibly some audiotape out there. And we got -- called the office of the attorney who was representing him. And the attorney was in a meeting. He and the attorney were in a meeting with the FBI at the time. And that's how the whole thing unfolded. We got in touch with them. They came onto CNN.

BALDWIN: OK. And now this app Glide authenticating it based upon the time stamp, which will absolutely affect the investigation, and to Joey's point, how the lawyers take this piece of information and run with it.

Joey Jackson and Don Lemon, thank you both very much.

JACKSON: Pleasure, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, it's a chilling look at how terror groups try to recruit members to join their cause, specifically right here in the United States. CNN obtained a video showed a fighter comparing his mission to visiting Disney World. We will play that for you and tell you why Minnesota here is one of the states they are targeting.

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