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DR. DREW

Alleged Audio of Brown Shooting; Cops: Mom Allowed Man to Sleep with 11-Year-Old

Aired August 26, 2014 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, did the mother of an 11-year-old allow her child to sleep with a grown man? Witnesses say yes.

And now, this girl is pregnant.

Plus, parents call the cops on their own teen daughter because they discovered nude sex photos on her tablet. Her father is here.

Let`s get started.

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Good evening. My co-host is Samantha Schacher.

And coming up -- Sam, you`re going to love this. The tape worm diet. Yes, yes, a mother, so-called, apparently fed her daughter this parasite.

SAM SCHACHER, CO-HOST: That`s right, Dr. Drew, and this woman actually did this, Dr. Drew, to prepare her for competition to lose weight.

PINSKY: It`s like beauty pageant stuff?

SCHACHER: I can`t.

PINSKY: OK. We`ll get to that later.

But, first up, we`ve got something that CNN obtained, audio allegedly of the gunshots that killed Michael Brown. Recorded by man in the

neighborhood who apparently was on a video chat with a woman, when the gunshots to be heard in the background. Listen carefully.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are pretty.

(GUNFIRE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re so fine. Just going over some of your videos. How could I forget?

(GUNFIRE)

(END AUDIO CLIP)

PINSKY: The FBI is reviewing this tape, trying to validate it. HLN has not been able to independently confirm the authenticity.

Joining us, Anahita Sedaghatfar, from AnahitaLaw.com, Segun Oduolowu, social commentator, host of "The Wire In with Segun" podcast, and Evy

Poumpouras, former special agent with Secret Service.

Anahita, here it is, the so-called smoking gun you`ve been waiting for. This is it. This is all we need to confirm that this was a murder.

ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, ANAHITALAW.COM: Yes, exactly. Right, Dr. Drew? This proves that this was racial profiling and this was a murder. I`m

sorry, but it doesn`t. If this tape, once it`s authenticated, because remember, it`s not authenticated yet, if anything, it`s just another piece

of evidence for the police to look at in their investigation, which by the way, is so far from complete.

And I`m so troubled that so many people on both sides rushed to judgment in this case, before we have all of the facts, before we have

hardly any evidence. And the reality is, you weren`t there, I wasn`t there, Sam wasn`t there. The people that were running out during day one

of this investigation screaming that this was murder, this was racial profiling, they weren`t there.

So we really need to wait before we (AUDIO GAP). It`s really troubling. Due process is not being afforded to this officer when people

are convicting him in the court of public opinion.

PINSKY: Well, Anahita, I know your friend Segun was not there, but I`m also certain that he has a little bit to say to you.

SEDAGHATFAR: Right.

SEGUN ODUOLOWU, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, what I would beg Anahita to remember is let us not add improbability to something that we all should

know is possible. This man was shot and from the autopsy, we know that the bullets entered from the front. So, whether or not they can authenticate

the tape, let`s hope that they can. There is not a colored person, black, white, yellow, Hispanic, anybody, really, where if an officer pulled a gun

and told to you freeze, would keep running at him.

SEDAGHATFAR: You`re saying that never happens?

ODUOLOWU: No, I`m saying every colored person knows if a white guy with a badge pulls a gun on you, you stop moving. If I heard four shots --

SEDAGHATFAR: Not true.

ODUOLOWU: Really?

SEDAGHATFAR: That`s not true.

ODUOLOWU: When is the last time you were a black guy?

SEDAGHATFAR: Well, I can tell you in cases where black, white, Brown, do continue to charge a police officer and refuse to follow orders. That

happens all the time.

ODUOLOWU: Let me ask you this, do you think that happened in this case?

SEDAGHATFAR: I`m not formulating a judgment in this case.

ODUOLOWU: No, no, what I`m asking you is because you`re adding improbability to what we should all feel is possible, you think it happens?

SEDAGHATFAR: For you to suggest is improbable than individual refuses an officer`s commands is absolutely ridiculous. It happens all the time.

ODUOLOWU: No, no, I didn`t say his command. I said if a gun is pulled on you and you are told to freeze, I don`t know anyone, and I will

say you to, that would run at the gun pointed at you.

PINSKY: Hold on. I will hold at that.

Samantha, you have a comment?

SCHACHER: Yes, Dr. Drew, OK, I am just so sick and tired of the divisiveness of everyone trying to be right and not be emphatic. And at

the end of the day --

PINSKY: I`m with you on that.

SCHACHER: Because I was just reading my social media. And some of the commentary, and I`m not referring to you, Segun and Anahita, this is a

respectful dialogue, but the commentary, the hurling of the insults, the --

PINSKY: Is this directed towards you some of it, or just stuff going around generally?

SCHACHER: No, it`s mainly -- well, some is directed towards me. But no, mainly, I`m watching just people interact with one another by just

researching the hashtag. I have it say, it becoming a conservative versus liberal issue.

And at the end of the day, why can`t we all just agree upon we need to highlight and better have a look at our current race relations as well as

how to improve the current policing. Why does have that to be a debate.

ODUOLOWU: But, Sam, you`ve never been stopped for driving in the car because of yur color.

SCHACHER: I agree.

ODUOLOWU: Like last week, and I sent this into the DR. DREW ON CALL staff, I got stopped driving because there was a murder two miles away in a

neighborhood that I drive through. And they asked me, pulled up to my car and said, do I have any warrants or am I out on bail? And told me it was a

random stop.

SCHACHER: That`s why we need to talk about --

(AUDIO GAP)

ODUOLOWU: -- being black in America is.

SCHACHER: That`s what I`m trying to say here. I agree with you. So why can`t we look at that and say, wow, we`ve got a lot of work to do.

PINSKY: Hold on. I want to hear -- Anahita, finish please. And I want to hear from Evy.

SEDAGHATFAR: No, I was going to say, look, I am not going to say, if this cop did racially profile him, if he did murder him, then I say lock

him up and throw away the key. It has nothing to do with taking sides, conservative or liberal. All I`m saying is how can you rush to judgment,

anybody, when you were not there?

PINSKY: Well, not only that, Anahita, but one of the big cries has been for justice. I think there is frustration with how slow the process

is going.

One of it -- we heard Mark Geragos on CNN saying, if one of his clients, he would have already been in jail, would have been arraigned, he

would have been investigated -- I thought he was right on that, you know?

But let`s listen to audio again, then I`m going to get Evy`s comments about all of this. Here is the audio.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are pretty.

(GUNFIRE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re so fine. Just going over some of your videos. How could I forget?

(GUNFIRE)

(END AUDIO CLIP)

PINSKY: So, Evy, there seems to be six shots, a pause, and then for more. You heard the discussion here. What are your thoughts?

EVY POUMPOURAS, SECURITY EXPERT: OK. So, when you engage a target or threat, typically what you do, when at a range, the way you`re trained is,

the target faces you. You discharge your weapon. You fire shots.

Then the target moves away from you. It`s no longer facing you. The threat goes away. You pause, you do an assessment and then, you reengage.

So, when I hear this, I think of my training. I think of the range.

Now, what I think when I hear the shots is shots were fired. Very likely the officer missed, which is very common considering the stress,

lining your sights, what`s going on, I think he missed most of those shots.

He assessed the situation, he pauses, very likely the threat continued at him, which was unfortunately Michael Brown in this case, possibly again,

we`re not sure. Then he reengaged to stop the threat.

That`s again, I want to remind you, you stop, you shoot to stop the threat. OK? You do not shoot to kill the individual. But to me, when I

hear this, it sound like there is trigger control. IT doesn`t sound like an officer slap happy just pulling the trigger. It`s also -- he had the

mindset, the right frame of mind to pause, assess, and then reengage.

To me, he reengaged because he had to.

Now, if you want to take the extreme side, saying he reengaged because he just wanted to kill and to execute him, then I would argue as well, then

he wouldn`t have paused. He just would have discharged his weapon and just emptied the whole magazine into the individual without pausing.

PINSKY: All right. Segun?

ODUOLOWU: Well, Evy, I cannot talk to your level of knowledge in this area, being on the range, because I don`t shoot guns as a rule. But it

would also be improper for you to assess his mental aspect and say what he was (AUDIO GAP).

I agree with you that we shouldn`t rush to judgment. But 10 shots? Ten? That`s not excessive?

PINSKY: That does seem like a lot, Evy.

POUMPOURAS: No, this is the thing. I understand this sounds like a lot. But you are assuming he made all those shot. When you are at the

range and the target is static, and there are stressors, they do these things to you to stress out, they are called exhaustion qualification

courses, they do that because they know on the street, it`s not going to be nice and pretty. You`re going to be stressed, confused, freaked out.

Another thing I want to add is --

(CROSSTALK)

POUMPOURAS: Hang on, Sedaghatfar. Hang on. Stand by.

SEDAGHATFAR: I understand what you are saying but it was six shots in the autopsy.

PINSKY: OK, good ahead, Evy, finish.

POUMPOURAS: Right. I just want to say one more thing. You also want to look at, has he ever been in a gun fight before. What`s his shooting,

you know, scores? They`re going to pull all those things up. What they do is when an officer or a law enforcement officer, special agent, gets into a

gun fight, they pull up their scores and they see how accurate of a shot was this individual as well? All these things come into play.

PINSKY: Anahita, last thought.

SEDAGHATFAR: You don`t even need to get to that. I`m corroborating what you are saying.

The autopsy reports show there are six shots that actually hit him. So, I think you are right. There might have been ten shots if this audio

is authenticated but they didn`t all hit him.

PINSKY: Again --

SCHACHER: So sad. So sad.

PINSKY: Please, can we all agree on that? It`s sad. A sad story.

ODUOLOWU: It`s a reality of life for black people in America.

Evy, like you said, he is a target. You never once said perpetrator. You address it like a law enforcement person. And for a lot of black

people, we feel like we are targets first and that cops are basically shooting at us like they are on the range.

PINSKY: All right. Next up, a mother accused of allowing a grown man to have sex with her 11-year-old daughter. And that child is now pregnant.

And later, a tape worm scandal. A beauty pageant mom intentionally feeds her daughter a parasite, allegedly.

Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFED FEMALE: She failed. I mean, she failed to be there for her child.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Rachel McDermott (ph) feels same way most people in Newton do, disgusted and distraught after hearing an 11-year-old girl

was sexually abused in this Newton home. And her mother, 37-year-old Tina Durant (ph) knew about it, but did nothing to stop it.

Police say Durant was allowing her 11-year-old daughter to sleep in the same bed as 23-year-old Jacob White.

JEFF HOEBEL HEINRICH, NEWTON POLICE CHIEF: When the child talked (ph) to the mother, and she wouldn`t take any precautions and continued -- the

abuse continued.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: White is now facing charges of lascivious acts with a child.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Sam, Anahita and Segun. And joining us for the first time, Kayleigh McEnany, political commentator.

The 11-year-old we were talking about in that piece is now 12 and now pregnant. Mom charged with child endangerment. The accused sex abuser is

24 years of age.

Caylee, welcome to our program. What`s your reaction to this?

KAYLEIGH MCENANY, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Thank you, Dr. Drew.

You know, this is a horrifying and disgusting story, the fact that this mom would allow letter child to sleep in a bed with a 23-year-old man?

I mean, what do you expect? And perhaps the most disturbing part of all this is she acts as if she just found out about this sexual intercourse

through Facebook messages.

What do you expect when you put your child in bed with a 23-year-old man? This is disgusting.

PINSKY: Sam, you are nodding. Was she actually aware of the 11-year- old sleeping with the 23-year-old? Nothing --

SCHACHER: Well, she claims that she wasn`t. But, Dr. Drew, I have the police report right here. There are so-called witnesses that are

mentioned. And according to the police report, these witnesses live in the residence, OK?

Also, a neighbor told the reporter that he often saw people going in and out of house. And that this story didn`t surprise him.

And then, finally, I want to talk about the fact that the mom being aware of the sexual relationship, because there are claims according to the

police report that while this 11-year-old girl was at the doctor`s appointment that several people overheard her quote say, "Mom, I tried to

tell you several times."

PINSKY: Here is what -- there is more information I got from the police report. Where the victim`s parents told the investigators they

learned of the abuse in June after this Facebook conversation between the 24-year-old surfaced. Others who so-called "live in the house" as Sam

said, there`s a bunch of people living in this house, told police they were aware of this before June. But when they alerted the mother she refused to

take action.

Anahita, this is bad news.

SEDAGHATFAR: Yes, this is bad news. If these facts are true and the mother knew then she absolutely belongs in jail. And, Dr. Drew, when I

first read about this, it made me think, is this mother like a lot of other mothers we covered on this show, allowing her daughter to be molested and

abused to keep her man? We have seen this in case after case. But, yes, you see that.

You see often times, again, I don`t know if the mother was involved with romantically, but it happened. And I think what makes it most

egregious is that this is her mother. Your mother is supposed to be the one person in the world that protects you, that keeps you safe and to think

she allowed her 11-year-old to be raped. That is absolutely reprehensible.

PINSKY: I mean, Segun, it sounds like complete chaos in the house. There are people telling the mom, hey, your daughter sleeps with a 24-year-

old. Are you OK with that? To me, it goes to drugs. People, particularly when parents are so egregious in their behavior, I think they are just not

in their right mind.

But Anahita brings up something awful. That`s a possibility, I guess. By the way, moms sexually abused or been in the horrible situations

themselves will inadvertently seek out perpetrators and not be aware when the abuse is going on -- Segun.

ODUOLOWU: But, Dr. Drew, there`s enough ugliness for everyone here. Like OK, the mom, yes, she is probably horrible. But how about all of

these witnesses that saw the rape?

Anahita is 100 percent correct. It is statutory rape.

PINSKY: Whoa, whoa, Segun, what? You agree with Anahita? Say it again?

ODUOLOWU: Anahita is 100 percent correct. This girl was rape. And other people witnessed it.

And when the mom did nothing about it, they don`t have phones to go to the police? They can`t put a stop to it. This is mob mentality. That

bothers me a lot, too, that a group of people saw something really bad going on and did nothing to stop it.

PINSKY: Well, again, everybody could all be loaded, though.

Kayleigh, let me ask a provocative question -- should a non-relative adult male ever be left alone with a female child? Young prepubescent

child, with some -- particularly a male you may not know that well. Of course, this guy supposedly lived there. But what do you say?

MCENANY: Right, absolutely not. To me, it`s a parent`s job to protect their child. You are your child`s only advocate. And 85 percent

of sexual abuse cases happen because of someone you know or trust that does, that engages in the sexual abuse.

It`s your job to protect the child. So, you guard that child, you protect them, you lower the statistical probability of something happening

to them. That means keeping them away from males.

PINSKY: Hang on, do you have children, Kayleigh?

MCENANY: I don`t.

PINSKY: Just curious. And, Segun, I wish everyone could have seen the reaction to your comment. It is not unreasonable, it is not crazy,

but, Segun, looks like someone --

(CROSSTALK)

ODUOLOWU: Yes, I was like, oh, my gosh. It robs us from our humanity. What you are saying is to play the statistics.

And if you said it the way you did and I took it the way you did, then almost every white person I meet would be a threat because of what other

white people have done. You can`t think that way.

What you have to do is raise your children to know how to say no. And if they feel in danger --

SCHACHER: To know how to say no?

ODUOLOWU: Hold on a second. Hold on a second. And to be really careful who you leave your children with and not trust any and everybody.

PINSKY: Well, that`s for sure.

But, Kayleigh is saying nobody -- Kayleigh, respond to Segun.

MCENANY: Segun, you are acting as if 3-year-olds, 4-year-olds have complete discretion to make wise decisions. Things happen to these

children, one in three females are victims of sexual abuse. One in five males, Segun.

It is your job as a parent to protect your child who cannot make autonomous decisions at the age 3, 4 or 5.

ODUOLOWU: Kelly, that`s not what I`m saying. Kelly, what I`m saying is why are you leaving your 3-year-old with someone you don`t know?

PINSKY: That`s what she is saying.

ODUOLOWU: No, but you can`t put a blanked statement and say, all males it should never be left alone with girls or young children that they

are not blood relatives.

PINSKY: Well, Anahita, last word.

SEDAGHATFAR: That is not real life. I think to say no or never, come on. If you know the person, if you trust the person --

PINSKY: Good rule of thumb though. Not a bad -- how about this -- let me tell you something. How about if you yourself have been a victim of

sexual abuse? Because as such, your picker can be broken. You can be inadvertently attracted to bring people around that could be perpetrators.

Maybe you shouldn`t trust who you choose to bring on. Maybe you have to be more careful with things.

And I`m not adding to the condemnation or shame of someone who has been sexually abused. I treat it. I deeply, deeply affected by it through

my patients. I see the horror that people go through. But the horror above all is the one when their children suffer what they went through.

Even when their state -- their objective is I would never let this happen to my child. Magically, it does. This is the way inter -- one of the ways

intergenerational transmission of trauma works.

Next up, where does the behavior bureau stand on this? They`re here after the break. They will either support me in the last comment I made.

Something for Segun or Kayleigh, no doubt.

And later, parents call the cops on their own child. That`s right, about nude photos they found on her phone. Her father is here with us to

(AUDIO GAP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police believe the sexual abuse started last fall.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You do know that they are in the same house. And again, information is there is some type of sexual contact.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The young victim recently found out she was pregnant. And according to these police documents, a witness at the

doctor`s office heard the victim say, quote, "I tried to tell you several times," to her mother, Tina Durant.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s going to scar her for the rest of her life. And she has the one person that is supposed to protect her to blame.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Sam and the behavior bureau.

Jennifer Keitt, life coach, Jena Kravitz, clinical psychologist, Evy Poumpouras is back with us.

The man accused of impregnating this girl has been charged with lascivious acts with a child. The girl`s mother was cited with child

endangerment.

Sam, this whole household sounds like a chaotic mess.

SCHACHER: Yes, and, Dr. Drew, if I can, I just want to respond to the previous segment, because I am 100 percent with Kayleigh. Is that correct

--

PINSKY: Kayleigh.

SCHACHER: Kayleigh, I`m 100 percent with you, girl. You think of all the horrendous cases --

PINSKY: Oh, Sam, Sam, I`ve got to stop. Danine Manette just tweeted something right next, you probably can`t see it on -- put Sam up there.

I`m going to read to her and see her reaction.

It`s from Danine who said, "I wouldn`t be surprised if mom was being paid for the arrangement. I`ve seen mothers pimp their daughters numerous

times."

SCHACHER: She always has a way of making it worse. But yes, I mean, I can`t imagine a mother making that happen. But again, you would think of

the horrendous cases that we cover, that would be hyper aware, that Segun and Anahita would be hyper aware.

And, listen, I have had a number of adult non-relative males that were present in my life that I thought of as and referred to as uncles. But

never once did they want to be alone with me or take me out alone. My parents were always there when they were there. That`s the way it should

be. Why run the risk?

PINSKY: It`s strange with those guys that have the moniker uncle.

But, Jennifer, you nodded your head more vigorously than anybody there. Go ahead. The pimp thing sounds OK to you? I can`t get my head

around that.

JENNIFER KEITT, LIFE COACH: That`s exactly what I was going to say. The motivation from mom is right here at question. I`ve heard a million

times if I`ve heard it once. Yes, I believe that is highly, highly probable.

And to the response of having daughters stay with nonrelatives, I don`t think that we can say all. I really don`t, because I think that sets

our children up to not trust men at all.

PINSKY: Right. Not close to anybody.

KEITT: It is a teaching process. I mean, if they school, if they are a 5-year-old and they might have a kindergarten teacher that`s a male.

What am I saying if I can`t be with her 24/7?

PINSKY: You`re right.

KEITT: And it`s not just men. I think that sets up a bad precedent against male and men, period.

PINSKY: Jena, I let you respond to that. I also want you to respond what I was saying about people who have been victims attracting

perpetrators. Go ahead.

JENA KRAVITZ, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Absolutely. Well, my only response is that I agree that you shouldn`t leave your male kindergarten

teacher alone with your child in bed, in bed.

PINSKY: Right, there we go, yes.

KRAVITZ: I`m happy to leave my children alone with their male kindergarten teacher during the day, but not in bed. I think that`s the

point that was trying to be made earlier.

But I will respond to the role of the mother here. You know, when I first read this story, it really made me think -- I wonder what type of

home this mom came from. Because certainly she had to have come from some home where she had blurred boundaries and perhaps, and I`m not going to

defend her, but perhaps she isn`t able to discern whether this is right or wrong.

Now, nonetheless, OK, if is not excusable. Her choices are not excusable. But it really does make me believe that maybe she is not able

to discern what is right.

PINSKY: Nobody have drugs and alcohol here? When I see people really go off the rail - and, Evy, you`re saying yes, and, Evy, you`ve actually

dealt with cases like this.

POUMPOURAS: Yes, I have dealt with similarities where there so young male baby sitting a young girl. One specific case I`m thinking was

actually, much, much worse. It`s a 16-year-old male baby sitting a 4-year- old girl. He was allowed to sleep in the room and actually had full intercourse with this young little girl.

And so, what I want to say is you know what be you really don`t know people and to be on the side of safety, like you said earlier, you want to

keep that separation.

But I do feel that there`s something nefarious going on with this household. When I hear all that stuff, I think drugs. I think something

is going on. I agree with what Jennifer saying. It`s like -- it`s a quid pro quo. You can have this with my daughter if I get a little bit of that.

I do think something like that was going on.

PINSKY: Sam?

SCHACHER: Dr. Drew, why the hell is this mother and this alleged abuser out walking around? People with drug charges get locked up quicker

than these two. I don`t get it.

PINSKY: I don`t know how to answer that. Does anyone know how to answer that?

JENNIFER KEITT, LIFE COACH: We do not have respect for women. We do not have respect for females in this country. I am absolutely sorry. We

are seen as objective sex objects and we do not take seriously the offense that happens when we are penetrated, raped, abused, molested. It happens

too often.

PINSKY: I would tell you -- I would say, Jennifer, that there is no doubt in my mind that it has taken a long time with this country to catch

up with how common this is, how devastating it is and how much under the age of 16 this kind of sexual activity can be absolutely shattering.

If people look at it and go, it was consensual. Are you kidding me? Consensual? It is an 11-year-old. Absolutely -- and by the way, even if

it was reversed, 23-year-old or whatever female and 11 or 12-year-old male, it is not equally as devastating but it is also devastating. We have got

to get our head around. How much this alters people is sense of self, their body, their body boundaries and their brain development. It is

shattering.

Next up, parents go to cops. This is another really interesting story, after finding nude pictures on their daughter`s phone. She was

sexting with another guy, an 18-year-old, allegedly. And, later, tapeworms as a weight loss method. One mother, apparently, thought -- that is a tape

worm, guys. That is what they look like. You want that flying around your colon or your small bowel. One mom thought it was a great idea. Be right

back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MOTHER: Very disturbing photographs to see on children of that age.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: She recently discovered her 13-year-old daughter was sending nude pictures of herself on her cell phone.

UNIDENTIFIED MOTHER: Suddenly, everybody wanted to be her friend, because according to these people, she was cool now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: But, digging deeper, another discovery, a possible high school senior.

UNIDENTIFIED MOTHER: Did request that they have sex.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Out of fear, they took their 13-year-old and her electronics to the sheriff`s office.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE SPEAKER: I am glad these parents are paying attention to what their daughter is doing.

UNIDENTIFIED MOTHER: We did this now to protect her, for now and in the future.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Sam and our Behavior Bureau, Jennifer, Jenny and Evy -- Jena, rather. And, the young girl`s father is going to be with me

in just a second. But, first, I will get the panel`s reactions. Jena, do you think the parents did the right thing going to the police?

JENA KRAVITZ, PSY.D., CLINICAL NEUROPSYCHOLOGIST: You know, I think that if these parents were acting out of fear, then they did the right

thing, because when you fear the safety and the well-being of your children, what do you do? You call 911.

PINSKY: Jennifer, do you think that she should have gone to the cops or just go straight to the therapist`s office?

KEITT: I think she should have been in your office, Dr. Drew. I think that this to me is using law enforcement for parenting instead of

using them as support for criminal activity. Now, having sexual relations with a 13-year-old, absolutely not. That is called statutory rape.

However, as a parent, and I have had three 13-year-old girls, I have had conversations about where your body parts are shown. In the privacy of

your bedroom, not via text message or via electronic device. I do not believe that they should have taken her to the sheriff`s office. I think

that, that is a parenting matter, not a criminal one.

PINSKY: And, Sam, I see you nodding with Jennifer`s comment. But, I always told my kids, if you do something illegal, you will have to bear the

consequence. I do not allow illegal activity. And, if there is something illegal, the people who enforce the law will be around.

SCHACHER: No. I understand that and I commend those parents for having that mentality. But, I have to agree with Jennifer in the sense

that is not addressing the underlying issue. I talked to teens all the time, Dr. Drew, with my other show. And, a lot of them are so naive and

ignorant to the dangers of social media. They really are.

And, that is when it is the parent`s job to continue on with their parenting. I know this is a new medium, but within social media, too.

These images that you take, whether it is a nude selfie or something provocative, they can haunt you and will haunt you for life. As well as

predators and the list goes on and on and on.

PINSKY: And, Evy, do you think this girl is going to get tagged for selling or putting out child pornography?

POUMPOURAS: I do not think so, because of her age. But, I do understand why the father did go to the police. This is a thing, she

already engaged with multiple people. So, I think at some point they were afraid this would come back on them and then we would be having a different

show saying, "What was wrong with these parents? Why go to law enforcement? What happened to their daughter?" And, all these different

things. So, I think that there were consequences that were set in place. And, I think out of fear and concern the parents in some ways did the right

thing.

PINSKY: Well, let us talk to the parents. I have exclusively on the phone, the father of the 13-year-old girl. We are going to call him --

refer to him as John tonight. John, how did you discover all this?

JOHN UNIDENTIFIED, FATHER OF THE 13-YEAR-OLD GIRL: That morning, my 16-year-old son got up to use the rest room and heard the voices in the

room and thought that it was someone in the room with her.

PINSKY: In my understanding, there was an 18-year-old boy who also was soliciting sex from your daughter. Can you tell us about that piece of

the story?

JOHN: Yes, sir. What had happened was that there was an 18-year-old guy that was involved with it, which I talked to the guy this afternoon and

that had been resolved. He still did send the text message and saying that, "Hey, can we meet up one afternoon for sex." But he did not send the

nude pictures.

PINSKY: And, have you contacted parents of the other kids with whom your daughter was communicating or sending her provocative stuff back?

JOHN: No, sir. I have not. The Dinwiddie County Sheriff`s office did.

PINSKY: And, Jena, you have you a question for John?

KRAVITZ: Yes, I do. When you gave your daughter an iPad or iPhone or tablet or whatever she was using, did you happen to explain to her what she

was and was not allowed to do with this? And, did you have any parental controls on hand? Because there is so much access to so many apps to what

you can do these days.

JOHN: That is correct. And, no, I did not. Because who would think that their child would be the child that would do this.

PINSKY: Yes.

JOHN: No ma`am, I did not.

PINSKY: John, let me ask you. How do you deal with that? What are your thoughts now? What is your message for other parents?

JOHN: I mean, the app that my daughter was on is KIK. And, recently, in going over the apps -- I mean it is just an app that parents really,

really, really, need to -- you really need to look out for, because this app really allows, with my child being 13 years old and it allows --

PINSKY: Or encourages --

JOHN: -- encourages -- Yes, to send the pictures. I understand it is like face time and that it does, but still, this app, you know, should not

be allowed. I am truly wrong and I am against it too, but my child was able to access this.

PINSKY: Sam, have you heard about this app, KIK?

SCHACHER: Dr. Drew, there are new ones every single day. They just get worse and worse and worse --

PINSKY: I am so glad my kids are adults now.

SCHACHER: Yes.

PINSKY: I have no idea. I got a chill here.

SCHACHER: But, it is all the reason why you need to sit down with your children right away at 9, 10, 11, 12 years old or whenever they have

access to a computer and go over with them about how to make the right choices, just like you would in any other aspect of parenting.

PINSKY: It is so hard.

SCHACHER: I know. I know.

PINSKY: They do not understand these things.

SCHACHER: But, then they come to me.

PINSKY: You are part of the ambient culture. Thank God, you are there, and not somebody who direct them the other way. But, listen, I want

to finish with John, here. John, this story is really disturbing.

First of all, thank you for coming on and willing to talk about this. I hope it is a cautionary story for other parents. Are you getting your

child any mental health or psychological support for what she has been through? And, what may have been involved in her falling into this path?

JOHN: Yes, sir. She is going to be taking classes and she is going to be attending a lot of classes and will be talked to. Yes, sir.

PINSKY: Is she OK?

JOHN: As far as I know.

PINSKY: OK. We will leave it at that. I really appreciate you coming on. Thank you, panel. We are going to switch gears. Evy, do you

want to make one last comment? I know you are anxious to say something there. I will give you a chance. Go ahead.

POUMPOURAS: I just think what this father did is very brave and I also think he did the right thing by the other parents as well. He was not

just thinking of his own daughter but also the parents of the other children.

PINSKY: I agree. I absolutely agree. All right. We are changing from the behavior, mental health, to something a little more -- there it

is.

SCHACHER: Yes.

PINSKY: Yes, a little more earthy, shall we say. A tape worm story. A colleague and I will discuss this parasite. How if you get it into your

bowel, it could end up in your brain. Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARICAR CABRAL-OSORIO, PEDIATRIC E.R. NURSE: It was a toilet bowl full of tape worms.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: A pageant mom fed her little girl tape worms to help her lose weight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: She got these magical diet pills from Mexico and fed these eggs to her daughter, which then of course hatched,

and -- put down the dinner, kids, because it is grocer from here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CABRAL-OSORIO: It was so gross. There were a couple that were very long and wiggling around trying to get out of the toilet bowl.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Sam Anahita, Kaleigh, and joining us, Jason Ellis from Sirius XM radio. Now, first of all, it is somewhat of an auspicious

day that Jason showed up to talk about tape worms, because I know you are having some GI problems yourself. I appreciate you being her, my friend.

JASON ELLIS, SIRIUS XM RADIO HOST: It is like every time I come on this show, you are talking about somebody`s problems and I got half of

them. Why do not you talk about like, how some radio show host becomes the king of all media, then I show up and it is me.

PINSKY: We will get there. We will get there. You will get there without our help. OK. This is a story I had seen on Nancy Grace. And, I

thought, this is something that I got to talk about. And, you know, not only am I a physician, but I, myself, had bulimia and my daughter has been

very public about an eating disorder she had.

So, I understand where people go with food and dieting and things. In this case, it is an overzealous pageant mom feeding her daughter tape

worm eggs. And, this is unbelievable. A nurse in the story you just saw is from untold stories of the E.R. Sam, you have discovered more about

this so-called worm therapy.

SCHACHER: Yes. Is that what we are calling it, worm therapy?

PINSKY: Yes.

SCHACHER: OK. So, there is a clinic in Mexico that we found Dr. Drew. And, this is what you could do. You drive to San Diego and they

come pick you up. They take you across the border. They put you up in this clinic. They give you the worm, then you have stay there while the

worm actually does its work. How glamorous.

And, then they send you out. They give you a little antibiotic to kill the worm. We also found a website, Dr. Drew, that sells you live tape

worm eggs. And, they only accept cash, if that is an red flag.

PINSKY: Fantastic. Evy, what do you think here? Is this something for you?

POUMPOURAS: Oh, my God. You know -- No, not for me. But when you Google where to get a tape worm, nearly half a million results come up.

And, I cannot help but think suicidal expectations are conditioned by pop culture to have this sort of reaction that you have to be skinny.

You know, you look like Kim Kardashian`s twitter feed recently and it is about how large her hips are. That is such a bad role model. And, I

think it conditions people to take really extreme measures to be skinny.

PINSKY: Right. That is right.

POUMPOURAS: -- Yes. Versus positive figures like Oprah who just embraces their size and they are beautiful for it.

PINSKY: Anahita, should this mother be held accountable?

ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, T.V. LEGAL ANALYST/DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I do not know that she should go to jail for this, but she clearly needs help.

I mean this is plain stupid to risk your child`s health and safety in the name of vanity. It just makes me wonder what other types of emotional abuse

this girl sustained.

PINSKY: Right. That is right.

SEDAGHATFAR: Her mom probably was criticizing her weight, criticizing her looks. That is not healthy. So, yes, I think she clearly

needs some psychological help, but I do not think she should go to jail for that.

PINSKY: It is almost an eating disorder by proxy.

SEDAGHATFAR: Exactly.

PINSKY: Now, I brought in a colleague of mine, Dr. David Heber. He is a Professor of Medicine and Department of Endocrinology from UCLA. Dr.

Heber, let us talk about what can happen with the tape worms. Certain tape worms get free in the body and form cystic and go to your brain, correct?

DR. DAVID HEBER, UCLA PROFESSOR OF MEDICINE AND ENDOCRINOLOGY: Yes. That is the pork tape worm, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Yes.

DR. HEBER: That actually is called -- it is a different species called Taenia solium; but, you know, your point is a very good one. People

usually take the beef tape worm, which does stay in the intestine. It can cause vitamin B12 deficiency and it can also cause intestinal blockage. As

in that little film that you showed from untold stories in E.R., you get abdominal distension, stomach distension.

They thought this young lady was pregnant at the time. It is totally illegal in the United States to either sell or transport tape worms. And,

for good reason, because you can confuse the pork one with the beef one and it does cause a disease which is a mouthful called, neurocysticercosis,

which can actually kill you. It can cause strokes and central nervous system disorders.

PINSKY: Yes. it is literally the larvae of the tape worm going through your body to your brain and sending up an expanding, basically, a

tape worm building in your brain. Basically, that is what is happening there.

It is extremely dangerous. It is stressful to your body. B12 deficiency sound benign. It can be significant B12 deficiency that can

damage the nerves in your body. It can be a complete disaster. Obviously, a foreign organism in your body wreaking havoc. What do you think about

the idea of this being sort of an eating disorder by proxy?

DR. HEBER: Well, you know, it is not even clear that the amount of calories absorbed -- this worm does not have an intestine. It absorbs

through the skin of the worm. It attaches itself and has male and female organs fail, so it can reproduce. So, this is not something you want it

plays with.

The World Health Organization has actually classified the pork worm as a health risk throughout Asia. You can get infected with this in

Vietnam, Thailand, other parts of Southeast Asia by eating contaminated pork or beef. So, this is could be a real problem.

PINSKY: We have to take a break. Be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: Back with Sam, Jena, Jennifer and Jason. Only J`s is on the show here, Sam, sorry.

(LAUGHING)

SCHACHER: That is OK.

PINSKY: Talking about a pageant mom who fed her daughter tape worm eggs to, allegedly, lose weight before her competition. It started with

featured on an episode of untold stories of the E.R. Jason, I did not get a chance to hear your thoughts on this. I am sure they are colorful.

ELLIS: Well, my first reaction is, if you want to win, go to the gym.

PINSKY: Yes.

ELLIS: I do not understand the cheating -- I feel like maybe it is lack of education or something to think that -- I have done dieting before.

I have cut weight for my pretend career as a fighter. And it is -- you can do it. You can just eat right. You can have like green drinks. I thought

everybody knew this now. What is with the worm thing?

PINSKY: Well, it is desperation.

ELLIS: Desperation? You can actually cut weight. You can go into a sauna and sweat it off. I do not actually do not believe that a worm can

beat me at losing weight, even though I might have one right now.

PINSKY: Sam?

SCHACHER: Yes. You know what, Dr. Drew? I take issue with just --

PINSKY: And, by the way -- Just a second, Sam. You have GERD and not worms. Little bit different. GERD --

ELLIS: Thank you, Drew for saving my life again. I only a heart procedure, not heart surgery. And, I do not have worms. Thank you.

(LAUGHING)

SCHACHER: OK. Now, I take issue with beauty pageants in general, Dr. Drew. I mean the title says it all. You are essentially reducing your

child`s worth to their physical appearance and why not instilling your child that beauty comes in all different shapes and sizes. Why not promote

the fact that beauty can equate to good character, a caring heart. I mean I just cannot even wrap my head around it. I cannot.

PINSKY: Well, I cannot believe is the fact that a lot of people are defending. On hlntv.com, they are defending the use of a tape worm. And,

they are angry with us for taking issues with it. Can you imagine?

ELLIS: What?

KEITT: Wow. That is absolutely amazing to me. You know, I think to myself though, we make people that have a DUI offense go to school. We

need to start making parents that have offensive behavior that is insane. Go to school so that they can learn how to do it right as far as their kids

are concerned.

ELLIS: Yes. Get a license to have one. How about that?

(LAUGHING)

PINSKY: Jena, what do you think?

KRAVITZ: You know, I think that what is most disturbing about this, Dr. Drew, is that not only is this woman made poor decisions on behalf of

her child, but she has this value system that is totally freaking out of whack.

PINSKY: Yes.

KRAVITZ: I mean the message she is sending to her daughter is it is more important to be healthy and win beauty pageant and win $1,000 at end

than it is to be healthy. You know what? I would give her $1,000 to stop giving her daughter some tape worms.

ELLIS: I do not think it is a bad thing to be in a beauty pageant, but I think it is a bad thing to cheat in any contest. And, I think they

are cheating if you are putting a worm in there.

PINSKY: Interesting. Interesting. Jennifer and Jena, does not it feel like a proxy mental health issue, like this is almost like a

Munchausen type syndrome.

KRAVITZ: But, are we clear whether this was consensual on the part of the daughter?

PINSKY: Consensual? How could that be?

KRAVITZ: Yes, but she is the mom.

PINSKY: Yes. She is the mom, exactly.

KEITT: She is the man.

PINSKY: This is -- used to go to the doctor and give you a tape worms in a pill to lose weight. When you lost enough, they would give you

another pill to kill it off, retro gastric bypass. There is somebody -- is that a tweet we are looking at? Jonah Strong, who is going ahead and

defending this.

SCHACHER: Yes. I have another one too, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Go ahead, Sam. Read it.

SCHACHER: I have one from Sandra that says, "This is what they did in the `50s to lose weight. They would advertise it in magazines."

ELLIS: In the `50s.

KEITT: That is my point.

(LAUIGHING)

ELLIS: In the `50s. We can do it the right way. No bugs in the butt.

KRAVITZ: It is 2014.

PINSKY: In a healthy way. Right.

KRAVITZ: Eat well and exercise.

PINSKY: Thank you, guys. Check out the after show. We will be there on Facebook. Let`s see, Jena and Jason you are still here. Join us on the

after show. You can DVR us to anytime. DVR us and you can watch us any time. And, of course, it is Forensic Files that is next and it begins

right now.

END