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CNN NEWSROOM
Officer-Involved Shooting Near Ferguson Protests; Ferguson Merchants Hard Hit by Unrest; People Trapped in Flooded House in Arizona
Aired August 19, 2014 - 15:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: George Howell joins me now live.
And, George, I'm sure you have been seeing the reports. There's been this other officer-involved shooting just a couple of blocks or a couple miles from where you are in the St. Louis area.
GEORGE HOWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right.
BALDWIN: And there haven't been any reports of disturbances or looting at the moment here.
But the idea of even additional issues, you know, creeping up, tensions there on the streets of Ferguson and the St. Louis area, will business owners -- do you think that they will stay in Ferguson after all this?
HOWELL: You know, it's tough to tell. Businesses are doing their best to stay open. Obviously, they are paying close attention to how this case plays out.
Brooke, you mentioned the other officer-involved shooting. At first flush, it seems to be suicide by cop, still unclear, still waiting for all the information on that.
But an Officer-involved shooting nonetheless, about three or four miles away from this. It's all in a pretty small area and people are paying attention to this, Brooke.
The person that I spoke with, Brenda, explained this. She said it comes down to a lack of hospital services. It comes down to schools that have been taken out of the community there. It comes down to a frustration and mistrust of police officers.
She said things have to change and the outrage that many in the community are feeling has really taken voice and taken form within this case. People obviously demanding answers in the shooting of Michael Brown, but there is an undercurrent of anger and she says things will have to change.
BALDWIN: George Howell, thank you so much. Just hearing from them and you mentioned, we've been talking about this breaking news, an additional shooting happening within the last hour in the St. Louis area, police killing and shooting a 23-year-old man, who had a knife who is saying, "Please shoot me, please kill me." This happening just mere miles from Ferguson, Missouri. Chris Cuomo is there. We'll talk to Chris coming up live. You're watching CNN special live coverage.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BALDWIN: All right, breaking news here, you are looking at pictures. These are live pictures. We are going to pause on our Ferguson coverage just for a minute because we have to show you this. Do you see that women in that -- this is a home. This is Phoenix, Arizona.
It has been raining all day and so we've been watching this picture through commercial break. There is a woman in the window. I have seen someone else standing next to her as well. They've been waiving a white t-shirt. Clearly flood waters surrounding her house. We're watching and waiting to see if they can get rescued.
Chad Myers is going to join me. Chad Myers, are you there?
CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Lots of rain here in the Phoenix suburbs, lots of rain. From Phoenix all the way down toward Flagstaff, around carefree, there have been inches and inches of rainfall and this is what happens to dry washes.
That is a wash where 99 percent of the time there is not even a drop of rain or a drop of water going down that wash. And all of a sudden when all that water gets up on top of the hills from the superstitions back up toward carefree and rushes back down into the valleys, it is a flash flood even.
Now when the rain stops, this water will be gone in 15 minutes. But for right now, this is a very dangerous situation -- Brooke.
BALDWIN: OK, so help me understand because we are looking at you know, monitors, but now we see this picture of this helicopter emerging on the left side of the screen. I can only assume, but I can't tell you for sure if this is the rescue crew en route to this two people who are trapped inside. You know, but in this kind of situation, Chad how do you think a rescue could unfold?
MYERS: Well, they're going to have to get on the roof I think before they can get out of there. They are going to have to kind of hold through the roof, stand on the roof and then they could be rescued.
But what's dangerous about this now that rushing water around the foundation of the house is damaging that foundation, removing water, taking that water, eroding the dirt away and that house could float away at any point.
It could be washed down stream so they need to get those people out of there. We don't know whether the water is going up or going down right now, but I don't see a waterline on the house, which means that's likely that the water is as high as it's been, if not coming down just yet.
And Brooke, it is still raining uphill. So all this water is still coming downhill in this Phoenix suburbs.
BALDWIN: You know, just when the news helicopter pulled out and are starting to again, you can sort of see the perspective of the different homes in the area. I know you mentioned a moment ago, of course, the rainfall in the Phoenix area, but that's a heck of a lot of rain to create this kind of flood.
MYERS: It all washes down into these valleys and when you get these dry washes, these (inaudible). They are -- absolutely you can drive through them most of the time, 99 percent or maybe even more than at that time. You drive through these with your vehicle.
A lot of times there's not even bridges over these (inaudible), but when the water all happens at one time like it has today, that water goes up very, very quickly. Now let's hope that the water goes down just as quickly. That's why they call it a flash flood like a flash on your camera, it goes off.
It goes up, it goes down just like that flash on your light bulb as well, Brooke.
BALDWIN: OK, so as we were sort of playing this out and we're only watching and waiting for the sake of these souls inside of this house, but as this helicopter begins to land and you see these rescue crews hopping out. Presumably to the roof --
MYERS: So this could be going on a wire there, yes. They could be getting down there on the (inaudible).
BALDWIN: OK, and so they are going to try to get the individuals from inside the house up to the roof and then pick them up off the roof. That's our best guess.
MYERS: That's our best guess. I don't think that even at this point, that water is going so swiftly. A swift water rescue from the ground in a boat would be even dangerous for those rescuers.
Now you see how the rescuers there are suspended below the helicopter going down on that line and will eventually get them out. They have to be careful because there are trees in the area as well. There you see the cactuses there.
This guy is going to try to get as close I think as he can, well, how dangerous this is though.
BALDWIN: Yes, this is live. These are incredibly compelling pictures of this rescue crew here. This individual dangling off of this rescue chopper precariously making his or her way toward this house.
MYERS: Did you see how fast that water is rushing.
BALDWIN: Yes, the floodwaters here starting in this part of the picture. We're all watching this together. It looks to me like another vantage of the home, approaching that window.
MYERS: That certainly is the same home absolutely. You see the rotor wash. The rotor wash of the helicopter blowing the trees around, blowing the rescue around as well. Just trying to get down there.
The helicopter pilot literally has no visibility where he is. He is on a radio with someone else looking out the window, looking out the side to get that man on the ground getting him on the roof of that house.
BALDWIN: Here we go.
MYERS: Right there.
BALDWIN: Here we go. So onto the roof, he's got the rescue equipment probably for the individuals inside.
MYERS: The sign he's going to give you right now is I'm good. I'm safe, the same signals you give them when you're scuba diving -- Brooke.
BALDWIN: My goodness, again, if you're just joining us, this is the Phoenix area flash flooding surrounding this home. We saw a different picture of the home. It looks like this individual is approaching here. That's the window likely shouting down trying to locate the individuals inside of this home.
Here they are, out the window. How loud do you think a roar of the water is? I imagine that's a challenge just for the rescue officer to try to communicate to the person inside the home.
MYERS: And we have the helicopter making a lot of noise up there as well. So sure. This is not a peaceful, tranquil situation. The rescuer did yell down, look down toward that window, didn't see anyone and then move to a different part of the house and now you see that the people that need to be rescued are back to that window where he is not.
BALDWIN: Looking for them.
MYERS: Now he's coming back.
BALDWIN: Presumably shouting, trying to locate where they are in the home with his rescue equipment. What kind of --
MYERS: He has a little harness that he's going to put around these people to take them up to the helicopter. Go ahead, Brooke, I'm sorry.
BALDWIN: What kind of damage has the water done, do you think, to this house?
MYERS: Well, I'm not even sure -- yes, this house may have floated down a little bit. This house may have moved because it's resting right up against those trees. So if this was a manufactured home and it could be -- seems like I see a seam down the middle, not only at the rooftop where the ridge vent of the attic would be.
Where the roof would be, but I also see that same seam going up and down close to that little white air conditioner that you see there. So this may have actually floated off of its foundation. But I know this water is rushing under it.
Even if it is on a foundation, there is a lot of erosion. Look how dirty that water is. That is the ground underneath the house washing away from it.
BALDWIN: So you have the roar of the water. You have the roar of the helicopter and this rescue worker is trying to find the people inside the home to rescue them. Have there been other reports here in the Phoenix, Arizona area, of other flash flood rescues in these communities?
MYERS: Not so much like this. Not the high-water rescues. There have been cars stuck in water, cars that have driven into too deep of water, and they've had to get the people out. This is mainly in the northern suburb area here of Phoenix.
We're talking about from Wickenberg and certainly south of Carefree area and Cave Creek area and north of Scottsdale. The south side has been pretty much dry most of the day. Go ahead.
BALDWIN: I just noticed something. It looks like the person in the window, their left arm is up to their face. Could they be on the phone? Would they be in touch with -- I don't know, 911 or some sort of communication center that is relaying the information to the helicopter who is relaying the information to the guy on the roof? How do you think this is playing out?
MYERS: I don't know. I think the communication is weak right now. But now he's coming over to where we need to see him I think. He is going to walk over to this side of the roof. He is going to look down and finally they are getting to where they need to be together.
So she can see him or he can see him and then vice versa so they can communicate. He's going to tell them what they are going to do and put the harness around the body and take that around his waist and up to his chest and then take him up there too.
Because I don't see a basket. It looks like there is a harness. Eavesdropping other things. Probably a life jacket, if nothing else in that equipment as well -- Brooke.
BALDWIN: Feet from the rushing water below. So he is -- they are grabbing on to it. Watching all of this play out. We don't know how many people are inside this home just from my own view.
I thought I saw two people at one point in time standing behind that window. One of them had a white t-shirt probably for that helicopter to try to identify which home where they were located for the rescue and now we wait.
MYERS: It seems like maybe I can see him in that window putting on a life jacket or the harness itself. Certainly the rescue doesn't want to go down into that water, just it's rushing way too swiftly.
BALDWIN: Too risky.
MYERS: Absolutely.
BALDWIN: Weighing the risk.
MYERS: That zoomed in shot there, it sure does look like this home has moved into those trees and has possibly going to walk down --
BALDWIN: I was wondering seeing the trees on top of the roof. The home would have moved or if it was the rushing water that, you know, the trees fell.
MYERS: Yes, and there is no way to know what that roof did look like before that, but certainly it looks like that this house has been at some point in time roughed up and it seems like maybe that water may have done that as it pushed to the lawn.
BALDWIN: So the rescue worker, you see that walkie talkie, presumably he is talking to the helicopter pilot.
MYERS: Has a lifejacket on inside the home. You could see it's yellow.
BALDWIN: There is another picture from another affiliate.
MYERS: Great shot. Look at that water. Quickly that water just rushing on by. Still on the radio there on the roof talking to the helicopter. Now they are going to have to get that wire back down to this area to get him out. He is not going to be able to climb up to the roof at any point in time.
BALDWIN: How do you mean? The individual inside, what wire are you referring to?
MYERS: The line that will come out of the helicopter will likely get down all the way to the person who needs to be rescued and they will pick him up from there. Obviously, there is a potential of him hitting the roof or at least they are coming up, but at least it will be a lot safer on that line, on that wire than he would be in his house right now.
BALDWIN: So there's probably some sort of attachment. Is that what we are guessing, an attachment on that, that vest, the life vest that he has and they would attach the line from the helicopter to the vest and pull him up.
MYERS: I thought I saw the ring, the loop not go down to him. I thought I saw the rescuer put the loop, which would go under his arms and be hoisted up. I actually had an opportunity to get into a Coast Guard helicopter off the deck of a Coast Guard boat in Lake St. Claire many years ago.
As the rotor wash is moving you around, it's scary and dangerous. Plus, the rotors of the helicopter are creating static. So that basket that I had to get into to be rescued, we were not in any danger, that basket has to hit the deck first so it can ground itself because there's so much static electricity. Had I grabbed that wire right away, without it grounding, I could have been electrocuted. There's a lot more to this than meets the eye. Now they are going to get to the other side of the home where a rescue may be simpler away from the trees maybe a little bit simpler.
BALDWIN: Just more pictures as we're watching this rescue worker try to grab at least two individuals that we know of inside of this home.
MYERS: Are there two?
BALDWIN: I -- I saw two inside of the window at a moment a little while ago. If you're just joining us, this is the Phoenix, Arizona area. Absolutely terrifying. Their home is surrounded by fast-moving water and they need out.
MYERS: And the water is so heavy, Brooke. It's rushing up against the side of the home. It could easily -- if it was up a few more feet, it could be crushing the home like it wasn't even there like a pieces of toothpicks.
The reason why they wanted to get them out, not just wait for the water to go down, it's still raining up the hill. Water is still going to be rushing down here. If you look again here, you can see a different shot to the left here.
There is no waterline on that home, which means that the water hasn't been higher than it is right now, but I do see less foundation under that home, which means it's in more danger as the water rushes under it.
BALDWIN: Did you see that wider picture, Chad, as we see the TV affiliates pushing different pictures as we get a look at this operation unfolding, it looks like these homes are in the middle of a river. But this isn't a river in Phoenix, is it?
MYERS: It certainly isn't. Water will come up and go down in these areas. Every time it rains, you get a small flash flood, but clearly this is the first time that anything has gone up this high in this area or if would have happened before.
I think that this is just a wide, rushing river. I'm trying to find out where the heaviest rain would be. Cave Creek, I-17 up towards Cave Creek, that's where the heaviest rain has been, 4 to 5 inches of rain in the past 24 hours and it's been 4 to 5 inches of rain in the past two to three hours.
Now it looks like I think the person is pushing the air conditioner out the window to make get access to the other window, which would make it easier to get the wire down from the helicopter to it. It could be falling out but it looks like it is teetering or tottering and falling out of the window right now.
BALDWIN: Pretty compelling pictures. If you're listening, this is a neighborhood suburb of Phoenix, Arizona. You have all of this rain. It's been raining and raining and raining here. There is a home absolutely surrounded by this muddy and fast-moving water. I eyeballed two people from inside of this home who need rescuing. You see the individual on the top of the roof wearing the yellow life vest. He is one of the individuals in the thick of this rescue. He has his radio. He's obviously in contact with that rescue helicopter that dropped him on top of the roof.
We've been watching this for at least the 10 ten minutes or so. We're all hoping to see a safe rescue of the individuals inside of this home in the Phoenix, Arizona, area. We watch, we wait.
MYERS: And I do see that yellow life jacket right behind that air- conditioner unit that's half out of that window. Looks like he's having trouble pushing it out though. He's been struggling trying to get the window unit out of that window because they go from the inside to the out. There you see.
There you can see him looking through the window. As they focus in on there, there you see it right there. Right there on that little air- conditioner unit trying to push that out of the window so he has better access. Can't get out the front door.
There's too much water pushing up against it even though the front down is not that far away with that much water pushing up against it, there would be no way to gain access through that door because that door is going to go out and not push in.
BALDWIN: I know we're not the rescuers. They're the professionals. We're watching this unfold. If you have an AC unit hanging out of one window when other windows are unobscured, why use this window? Is it an issue with the helicopter in the tree perhaps?
MYERS: It must be the topography or it's the tree tops in the way, sure. Either that or that's the window already out and they can get to it. It's a bigger window to gain access. That other window next to it may be only 16 or 18 inches wide where this it is probably a 42 or 48 inch slider window.
Going to slide back and forth. The window at the very end, right there, everything's out of it. The glass is out. Whatever that might have been covering that window is out. It seems like that would be easy access. There must be something above in the way. There must be trees in the way.
If you remember when the rescuer was dropped onto the roof, he was dropped onto the roof on the right side of the screen way down there on the right, not back down where the trees are covering it up. That has to be that overhang of that very large tree, the green tree that the helicopter just can't get there.
BALDWIN: I think you're absolutely right that this house slid. Just the way it's perched up under this tree and when we saw the broader picture, because of the flash flooding, it does make you wonder if the entire house moved because of this.
MYERS: I do believe it did. I don't think you would get those trees right up against both of those. As I looked at it, it looked like the roof had damage to where the house did hit both trees. It's resting up against two separate trees, one on the left, one on the right. It got wedged in between the two trees. That's why it's not floating down the river anymore.
BALDWIN: It does make you wonder, I mean, had these people, obviously if it had been raining all day outside of Phoenix, if these people had this heads up or when we talk about a flash flooding, they call it a flash flood for a reason. Do you really not have heads up to this kind of water?
MYERS: I think this water could have come up from nothing to this high in 20 minutes and the problem is, if this is downhill from where the rain actually happened, there may have been no rain on this property. The water was up into the hills a little bit farther to the north of Phoenix, rushing down.
And the people may have had no idea that there was water rushing from top of the hill down toward them. That happens all the time when people are camping. It even happened there in California a couple weeks ago where the camper said it didn't even rain here.
How could there be a flash flood. On top of the mountain, there was 14 inches of rainfall that came down there and all of a sudden, there was the mudslide, the flash flooding, all that happened in a place where three miles away, they never got a drop of rain.
BALDWIN: So we watch and wait. We all want to see a successful rescue obviously unfolding in front of our eyes. At least two people inside of this home. The rescuers on the roof has established contact with at least one person inside the home. We've seen them talking, the person from inside the window up to this individual on the roof. It just makes you wonder what they're waiting for.
MYERS: I don't know. He's in contact. He's talking on the walkie- talkie. There could be an issue inside the home. Obviously, there could have been more than one person in the home. Maybe asking for reinforcements or more life jackets or whatever it might be from that helicopter. It's a little curious why they're not in a slightly bigger rush except they don't feel the water is getting any higher.
BALDWIN: And so to see this kind of this kind of fast-moving water, how long, again, Chad, just for people just joining us and wondering what they're looking at, how long has the rain been falling, how much of an issue has this been for this part of the country?
MYERS: The rain only started about three or four hours ago. That's the issue. It just came down so quickly. When it comes down quickly in a desert area, you think it's desert, it will soak in. It doesn't. That hard packed sand that hard packed desert soil doesn't grab that water and let it soak in even though it will seems sandy.
A lot of it just washes off immediately into these dry arroyo beds. You'll know where these dry washes get water every once in a while if you see greenery. You know, I have a friend who lives in Scottsdale and we take his horses out and go riding through the Superstition Mountains. And at the bottom creek, you'll know if the creek ever has water if there's anything green in the arroyo. You know that water gets there enough to support that vegetation and that's where you have to be very careful. It seems like a great place to camp.
But it's a terrible place to camp because that vegetation is there because at some point in time, there was water there. That water was likely there due to a flash flood.
BALDWIN: Let me ask you this. If people aren't familiar with this part of the country and especially rainfall, Brian Stelter thank you for pointing this out, the Phoenix bureau chief of "The New York Times" has tweeted there has been more rain today than all of last summer.
MYERS: They got 14 inches in one hour and one inch in spots in 14 minutes. As I said, so there was one inch in 14 minutes in this area. That's how all that water just wants to rush right off so very quickly. This is monsoon season. This happens.
I know growing up in Buffalo, New York, we talked about moving to Arizona when I was a kid and they said well, it's so dry there. It's dry part of the year. But when the humidity comes in and the monsoon season comes in, these flash flood events happen all the time.
There are either the haboobs we see them, the dust storms that come in if there's a lot of air rushing away from these thunderstorms, but the heavy, heavy rainfalls come down and these storms don't move very quickly because these storms are not generated by a jet stream.
They sit over the same spot and rain and rain. That's what you get this type of flash flooding where you have to be so careful.
BALDWIN: You have to be careful and in some cases have to be rescued. You see that yellow, just talking to viewers the yellow in the center of the rooftop. That was dropped down along with the rescue worker from that rescue chopper. How will that u-shaped piece of equipment, Chad, be used?
MYERS: Maybe they are just waiting for the water to go down. Seeing if it's not going up anymore. But this device will go under the person's arms and he'll be lifted, he'll hold on to it almost like a, gosh, a baby sling, if you will.
My little child years ago, we had these big long pieces of cotton, just a piece of fabric, but you'd wrap him up and it would go under his arms and you could sling him over your shoulder over your neck that's going to happen here. If you look on the wide shot, they were so close to dry land.
It almost seems like maybe they're thinking maybe the -- the risk of this isn't worth it if this water is going to start to go down, we can get this person to land quickly because it was like 20 feet from the house to dry land.
It was right there. You can see the road that goes down into this home. It's not very far to get him to a dry piece of land here. Maybe the risk/reward isn't worthy right now. I don't know.
BALDWIN: Chad Myers, thank you so much for hanging with me really for the better part of the last 15 minutes as we've been watching this play out. We'll continue to keep an eye on it. Two people, at least, two people waiting to be rescued because of these flash floods in a Phoenix, Arizona area. Stay with us here on CNN.
I want you take you to Ferguson, Missouri now, "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts right now.
