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CNN NEWSROOM

Man Shot And Killed in St. Louis

Aired August 19, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Thank you, everybody.

This afternoon at 12:20, officers dispatched at this location for a call of a disturbance. A gentleman entered a convenience store nearby, walked out carrying two energy drinks. When he was asked to stop, he walked out and the store owner let him walk out. A few minutes later, he came back to the storefront and took what was described as a package of muffins, a pastry. The store owner said, hey, could you please pay for that before you leave? The suspect tossed him into the street and he continued walking. They contacted police for the disturbance and officers were dispatched. The suspect, who right now is described as a 23-year-old African-American, was acting erratically walking up and down the street. Another business owner and alderman in the city of St. Louis noticed his behavior and also contacted the police department. The store owner and the alderman both said the suspect was armed with a knife, acting erratically, pacing back and forth in the street, talking to himself. As officers arrived, the suspect turned towards the officers and started to walk towards them clutching his waistband. He then pulled out a knife in what we described called as an overhand grip and told the officers: "Shoot me now. Kill me now."

As he walked toward the officers, the officers began giving him verbal commands, drop the knife, step back, drop the knife, at which time the suspect stopped as he was approaching the driver and then turned his attention to the officer that was in the passenger seat.

Both officers are out of the car. When they initially got out of the car, they did not have their weapons drawn. When the suspect displayed his knife, they drew their weapons. The officers are giving the suspect verbal commands, stop, drop the knife, stop, drop the knife. The suspect moved towards the passenger, the police officer that was in the passenger seat of the vehicle, at which time he came within three or four feet of the officer, and the officers shot.

Both officers shot fired their weapons, striking the suspect. And the suspect is deceased. As we talk to witnesses in the area, several witnesses have confirmed that story. Witnesses have heard the suspect saying, shoot me now, kill me now, shoot me.

The alderwoman said she could see the officers giving voice commands to the suspect, put the knife down, back up, put the knife down, and he was not complying. So what we know right now is that we have a suspect who was involved in a theft who was -- the department was contacted acting erratically and armed with a knife. The police officers responded. When they responded, the suspect did

not respond to verbal commands to drop his weapon, he approached both officers, and then when he closed within three or four feet of -- the knife in what is described as an overhand grip, the officers fired their weapon.

Any weapons?

QUESTION: Do your men have Tasers?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our men -- some officers are armed with Tasers, that is correct.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's a great question.

I think officer safety is the number one issue. So, if you're the family of a police officer and somebody approaches you within three feet with a knife, I think you have a right to defend yourself and protect yourself. I think it certainly is reasonable that an officer has an expectation to go home at the end of the night.

I think we can all understand what is going on in Ferguson, but I think ever police officer that's out here has the right to defend themselves and the community.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're currently looking to see if there is video inside, and if there is, I will let you know. And if we could share that video, I will. We're in the process of doing that right now. I have not seen it if there is.

QUESTION: Did you recover the knife?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The knife has been recovered at the scene, yes.

QUESTION: There is a lot of detail here very early on in the investigation. Do you feel like you have to get this story out exactly what happened here so people who see this know this is what happened right here today?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you from St. Louis?

QUESTION: I am not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is typically how we do investigations in the city of St. Louis, to put information out as quickly as possible so everyone knows the context of what happened. I think it's important to do that. There is a great deal of detail, but that's what we know at this point.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think anybody that is watching television over

the last week has to be concerned about that. And we will spend some time working in the community to make sure.

I have already talked -- as I said, an alderwoman witnessed this situation for the city of St. Louis. I have already talked to two other aldermen and some community activists because I want this message to be out as truthfully as and quickly as possible. And that's what we're trying to do.

QUESTION: We are already starting to hear people yelling. Are you guys concerned about this?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Concerned isn't the right word. I think it's important that people understand what happened. We're going to get that message out as quickly as we can through as many sources as we can.

QUESTION: Do you think the governor should call in the National Guard?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think this is an incident that happened in the city of St. Louis and we're dealing with it.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All right.

So you're watching CNN. And what you're looking at, aerial pictures. And you were listening to a police news conference happening. This is the St. Louis area again, that crowd presumably, the newser happening, a police officer explaining what has just happened, what has just transpired in the St. Louis neighborhood in the last hour or so.

According to this police officer, he said that a 23-year-old African- American male has been shot and killed, this all happening mere miles from Ferguson and that QuikTrip gas station that has been sort of ground zero for a lot of the protests. It's been burned down.

Here's what the officer just said. Let me just review this. He said that this young man had a knife. He was holding the top of the knife, he was acting, his word, erratically. When officers arrived, they found him clutching his waistband and this individual, this 23-year- old was yelling shoot me, kill me.

Officers told him to stop. And so when they got out of their patrol car, he had that knife in his hand. They said stop. He came within three to four feet of both of those officers who shot him and killed him, a 23-year-old. So that's what is happening there in the city of St. Louis.

The community and the entire court wondering what will happen when the sun goes down later on this evening. For the past 10 days, nightfall has brought protesters to this street and last night chaos, stun grenades, tear gas canisters, rocks, Molotov cocktails, and gunfire.

We now know police have arrested dozens of people. In fact, the latest number that we had, according to CNN, 78 people from last night and early this morning. Four police officers have been hurt. Some in the crowds have even turned on one another, two people shot.

CNN's Jake Tapper was there on the streets in Ferguson until the wee hours and he joins me now live.

So, Jake, we have this breaking news out of the St. Louis area just a couple of miles from you, this additional officer-involved shooting of a 23-year-old African-American male. We also just heard from Captain Ron Johnson, who is charge of security there where you are, saying that some of the violence that you saw firsthand last night was, you know, because of some outside instigators.

Tell me what you experienced last night.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Well, there were two confrontations going on really.

Right here -- it's all on this one main drag, West Florissant. Right here at Ferguson Avenue was where there had been this protest that had been marching down West Florissant. Community organizers and the police had worked this out. As long as the protests kept moving, the police were on the side of the road supervising, keeping the peace, watching the stores, et cetera.

And everything seemed to be going well. And then the protesters, instead of continuing to moved, as they had agreed they would, they all started congregating here, and that's where you saw something of a showdown between this very large presence of police, many of them with guns drawn, wearing gas masks, very militarized looking presence right here on Ferguson Avenue and West Florissant.

That's where that confrontation was. Some individuals, a small handful, acting out, throwing things at the police. There were a few arrests, but still relatively calm. And the protesters dispersed fairly quickly into the night.

Then there was this other protest going on down there near the burned- out convenience store that was burnt the night that Mike Brown was killed 10 days ago. And that was a very different scene. That scene was about two dozen young protesters were who clearly provoking the police.

It was a much smaller police presence, but they were setting a barricade in the street. They were throwing glass and bottles at the police. The police told them to disperse several times, and then ultimately out came the stun grenades, the smoke, and the tear gas.

There were two things that were going on. And then in addition to that, there was also a shooting of some sort that went on. I still don't know if that was related at all to the protests. You have to understand that on Canfield, the street where Mike Brown was killed 10 days ago, according to local residents, that's an area where it's fairly common to hear gunshots at night because of gang activity or criminal activity.

So I'm not sure if those gunshots were standard operating procedure in that neighborhood because of criminal activity or if they were related at all to the protests, but certainly a very chaotic night. And in a way, it was disappointing because the night had started out with this agreement between police and protesters.

But, yes, there are clearly bad actors in the crowd. We ran some images yesterday on "THE SITUATION ROOM" from closed-circuit TV from a looting of a local store. What people in charge here say is a lot of the bad actors are not from Ferguson. They are from outside Ferguson, whether St. Louis or even from outside other -- in other states. And they are provoking and trying to take advantage of the situation.

And it really depends on the individual. Some of them are here obviously to loot. They are career criminals. Some of them are here and they are trying to provoke police. Most of the people here are peacefully demonstrating. But it all gets combined together with such a large police presence -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Just watching you, Jake, you and our other colleagues for in the thick of it and you pointing out how armed and ready really for battle a number of the law enforcement were, just pointing that out back and forth, and that's just what is happening in Ferguson, and these folks, as you point out, the bad apples coming in from out of town provoking this.

That is just one layer of this. And then you have the pictures we're showing in the middle of the screen. Jake, just stand by for me for a second, because we have Yon Pomrenze on the phone. He's one of our CNN producers, because we're also following, talking about tensions on the streets in the St. Louis area, these people gathering here.

This is because of an officer-involved shooting involving a 23-year- old African-American man who has just been shot and killed. That is confirmed by St. Louis police.

Yon is there.

Yon, can you hear me?

YON POMRENZE, CNN PRODUCER: Yes, yes, I can hear you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Tell me what happened.

POMRENZE: Well, I'll tell you, we have the version reported to police.

And they say that a 23-year-old African-American man entered a convenience store here and twice tried to take some things, steal some things, put them back, but that then he walked out and because of that police were called.

Now, they say he was acting erratically and that there were reports from the store owner and from a St. Louis alderwoman who witnessed it that this man had a knife with him. Police officers were called to the scene, and they say that this person was acting erratically he was yelling, shoot me, kill me now, shoot me, kill me now, at the police, and that he approached them with the knife and they are describing it in an overhand grip, sort of the kind of grip that they demonstrated if you were holding a knife and were looking to sort of stab it downwards.

Police say that the officers, two officers got out of the car without their weapons drawn and that once this man then approached them, got within three or four feet with the knife raised, that's when both officers opened fire and that they killed him.

And what is interesting is that the police chief after giving a briefing to the media here, the chief waded into the crowd. If you see those aerials, you can see that there are people gathered here. And the police chief waded into the crowd so that he could tell them what their initial investigation has found so far.

Clearly, they are trying -- they want to get the message out. He said for the media, they want to make sure that people to know what they said has happened here. He said there were multiple witnesses to this and they want to keep the community informed of what they are saying is happening here.

Now, people are gathering here, and we have already been hearing chants of, hands up, don't shoot, the chant that has become popular this week after the Mike Brown shooting which has been used in a lot of the protests. So we have been hearing that here.

People are gathering at a few locations at the corners here. But as of now, it's staying peaceful. People are gathered and there's chanting, but so far, it's been peaceful. But they are trying to make sure to keep the community informed.

BALDWIN: So here we are, Yon, 10 days ago.

And I don't know how many days you have been there in Ferguson. I think a number. So, you have seen and witnessed a lot of these protesters, a lot of the frustrations really on both sides of this for a number of days. You have 10 days ago Michael Brown shot and killed and here you have someone who according to police had a knife and was saying, please shoot me, please kill me to these police officers, and ultimately apparently according to this police chief, the officers felt threatened enough to pull out their own guns and they shot and killed this young man.

That's the latest we have from the St. Louis area. Yon, just finally, do we know any more about was this individual? We know that he was 23. What else can you share?

POMRENZE: They haven't said anything else.

But from their description, they didn't bring up anyone else that was with him. It sounded like he was alone. I spoke to one person in the crowd who would not give me his name. Obviously, there's a lot of mistrust here within the community. He said that he witnessed it and what he could tell me was that he said he saw this person acting very erratically.

He said he thought this person was mentally disabled. At first, he told me he didn't see the knife, but the police have said that they have the knife in custody and that they have recovered it from the scene. They couldn't tell us how many shots were fired, but they clearly -- this just happened a short while ago.

And you can tell that, even though they say this is the normal way that they proceed in an investigation, they are clearly trying to make an effort to get the information that they have out there as quick as possible, being mindful of everything that we have seen here over the past almost two weeks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Yon Pomrenze, I'm going to let you go so you can get a little bit more information here, as we're being looking at pictures out of the St. Louis area.

Again, this shooting death happening mere miles from Ferguson, Missouri. Much more on the breaking news right after this. Stay with me.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Let me just bring you up to speed. And let's go ahead and throw up the pictures, if we have them, Roger, from the St. Louis area. If you're just joining us, what we have been watching, there was a news conference that just happened just a couple of miles from that QuikTrip in Ferguson.

There has been an officer-involved shooting in the St. Louis area involving a 23-year-old African-American male. According to this police chief, he was acting erratically. This his word. He was actually holding -- he had this knife and he was saying to these officers, please shoot me, please kill me.

And they told him to stop doing that. They told him to drop the knife. According to this police chief, he came within just a couple of feet of the officers, and then they pulled out their weapons and they shot and they killed him.

But that's what we have been looking at and that's another piece of what has been happening in the wake, 10 days ago. You have Michael Brown being shot and killed. So just talking about tensions really boiling over.

And 78 arrests is the latest number we have from last night into the early mornings. And so we will get more information on the latest shooting for you momentarily.

But let's talk about the grand jury, because a grand jury could begin hearing testimony as early as tomorrow in the killing of Michael Brown. As the prosecutor out of St. Louis County gathers the evidence to present to the grand jurors, there are calls for him to recuse himself.

In fact, the number of signatures on this petition now is topping 27,000. It calls for a special prosecutor to take over the investigation. The petition writer, a Missouri state senator, told CNN why she believes Robert McCulloch should step down. She says, in 1964, when McCulloch was just 12 years of age, his

father, a police officer, was shot and killed in a gunfight with a black kidnapper. McCulloch would refer to that incident in 1991, when he campaigned and was first elected as prosecutor.

Here's more from that state senator.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMILAH NASHEED (D), MISSOURI STATE SENATOR: Impartial. He doesn't have the fortitude to do the right thing when it comes to prosecuting police officers. His cousin is a police officer. His mother works for the police department. His uncle is a police officer.

And, again, we think that his judgment would be clogged.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Joining me now, CNN legal analyst Mark O'Mara.

You certainly know a thing or two about special prosecutors and other folks having to step in, having represented George Zimmerman.

We will get to that, because I would love your 2 cents on that. But first just please remind everyone, when we're talking about a grand yesterday, what does that involve?

MARK O'MARA, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: In Missouri, it's 12 people who are presented or have the case presented to them by the prosecutor.

They go in there and they talk about all the evidence. They present their best case to try and convince the grand jurors to indict of whatever charges they think. It's sort of prosecutor-heavy because they're the only ones there.

BALDWIN: There's no defense.

O'MARA: No. They can make a request to testify or to bring information, but normally it's just the prosecutor.

BALDWIN: And sometimes this helps the prosecutor if it's kind of -- kind of case, right? Prosecutor could say, all right, it was the grand jury who decided.

O'MARA: Blame the grand jury for not indicting somebody if the prosecutor doesn't want to take the heat for being the decision maker and not prosecuting somebody. And if you also want to just do something in a case like this, take it over because of the political pressure or the public pressure, you can do that as well.

BALDWIN: This of course is all involving the police officer, 28-year- old Darren Wilson, and that involve -- the indictment would involve him.

O'MARA: Correct.

BALDWIN: Let's talk about Robert McCulloch. He has been elected.

In fact, let me just read -- this is the statement from his office before we get your opinion.

"Mr. McCulloch has been the elected prosecutor in St. Louis County since '91. He has been reelected every four years by an overwhelming majority of St. Louis County. The people have faith in Mr. McCulloch, and he will continue to do his duties."

Should he recuse himself? How does this work?

O'MARA: It's a tough call.

My first reaction as a criminal defense lawyer is, he's the prosecutor. He was elected. He can do it. If he says he has a conflict, then he gets out, and he should not submit himself to public pressure. However that said, this is a new day.

We're now dealing with a national event that 10 days into it has gripped the nation. We need to be very careful that the process is transparency and that's it's trusted. If in fact there are these concerns that will lead to more problems than they solve, against my grain, I might say back away and let us bring in somebody who has absolutely no ties to that area, to that community, and whose dad wasn't killed in an event including a black male.

BALDWIN: This other part of it which I find fascinating -- and we touched on this before -- but you have all these different witnesses coming out and telling their different versions of events. We talked about eyewitnesses yesterday.

How do you, if and when this goes to trial, how do you select -- as attorneys for either side select which witness testifies? Which is most credible?

O'MARA: That's one of the decisions. You look at the credibility and how they will help your case.

You look at what they said and how they said it and they said it in a way that you know you can present to a jury that will make them believe it and realize that there are going to be some warts on every witness that we have.

BALDWIN: Mark O'Mara, thank you very much.

O'MARA: Sure.

BALDWIN: Who, if anyone, is leading the protests in Ferguson, the town, the latest front line in this newer version of a civil rights movement? Will someone stand up and lead these people? Is there a new leader they can turn to?

And not everyone sees this story through the lens of race. For some people it is about the police shooting of a young man, it's about authority, it's about too much authority in some cases and racism has to do with it. We will talk about why race may be important here in Ferguson ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: The violence and disturbances in Ferguson, Missouri, have hit local businesses especially heard. They have been looted and they have vandalized. And some merchants have managed to reopen in the aftermath of that shooting. But their feelings about what is happening runs strong.

CNN's George Howell talked to some of those affected by all the unrest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GEORGE HOWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I want to give you sort of the lay of the land here on West Florissant Avenue, what is what is where is where.

Just down the street a couple of blocks, that's where the QuikTrip is, the Q.T. that has been the center of all of the protests. And these are the businesses that have been hit hard. You can see these signs. They are all boarded up, but they say open. They want people to come in.

Just 10 days ago, myself and photojournalist Jordan Guzzardo were here that first night that this all went down and there were hundreds of people on the streets. We saw a lot of the businesses that were hit the first time. And now they are just trying to survive and they are trying keep the doors open.

I want to show you a person who is working to do just that, Brenda Deihl (ph).

Brenda, tell our viewers how badly you guys got hit.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We actually were fortunate. We didn't lose a lot of things. We didn't lose a lot of property. We had a lot of broken glass, damage, and that kind of thing. We didn't really lose much of anything.

HOWELL: Hurtful just to know that people came in and did this?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, it's not hurtful to us, because, as Sunny (ph) and I feel, these are material things, OK? And when you look at what was lost, a life, there's nothing more important than that.

HOWELL: Your focus then is on this case more so, right?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My focus is on this child and his family.

I want justice for this child's family. They deserve it. This is what the police are here for, to protect and serve us. And the people just want justice and that's the bottom line.

HOWELL: You told me a few minutes ago that you understand the anger.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Uh-huh.

HOWELL: Explain that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, as I said, I'm a baby boomer.

I lived through it. I lived through the civil rights movement in the '60s. But at that point, we did it in a more peaceful manner, which is just what we want these people to do. We understand that you want the justice. But everything has to be done in an order. And it's going to take time.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: George Howell joins me now live.

And, George, I'm sure you have been seeing the reports. There's been this other officer-involved shooting just a couple of blocks or a couple miles from where you are in the St. Louis area.

HOWELL: Right.

BALDWIN: And there haven't been any reports of disturbances or looting at the moment here.

But the idea of even additional issues, you know, creeping up, tensions there on the streets of Ferguson and the St. Louis area, will business owners -- do you think that they will stay in Ferguson after all this?