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Arrests in New Ferguson Clashes; Who is Officer Darren Wilson?; Eric Holder to Visit Ferguson; Pentagon Controversy Over Sending Surplus Military Equipment to Police; Should President Obama Go to Ferguson?

Aired August 19, 2014 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning, I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me.

Breaking news overnight again in Ferguson, Missouri, the National Guard moves in and tensions ratchet up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On the ground, on the ground.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hands up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Police in riot gear arrest at least 31 people, after another night of escalating violence. At least two people are shot in what police are calling crowd-on-crowd violence.

What started as the peaceful protest over the police shooting of an unarmed teenager has become uglier and ever more ominous. The city has shut its schools, the National Guard is on the ground and the White House is dispatching Attorney General Eric Holder there tomorrow.

And maybe most sobering of all police say this tiny St. Louis suburb is now drawing troublemakers from as far away as New York and California.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAPT. RON JOHNSON, MISSOURI STATE HIGHWAY PATROL: Anyone who has been at these protests understands that there is a dangerous dynamic in the night. It allows a small number of violent agitators to hide in the crowd and then attempt to create chaos.

I want to encourage the good people of this area to come out and protest tomorrow during the daytime hours, make your voices heard, where you can be seen, and we are not the cover for violent agitators.

(END VIDEO CLIP) COSTELLO: CNN has deployed its vast resources to cover all the angles of this rapidly developing story. Our correspondents, guests and experts will join us to break down all the details but we begin our coverage with CNN's Don Lemon, who spent much of the night amid the clashes.

Good morning, Don.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Carol. It's not a lot of sleep, and this is what -- I'm just going to be honest with you. This is what we need to get through the morning, right? This is what we needed to get through last night. We needed a gas mask and we needed flak jackets, because it was sheer chaos for much of the evening last night, as these protests which started off as peaceful protests turned violent.

Many people in the crowd, many of the reporters had tear gas, we got tear gassed. We saw the violence up close. We were told by police late into the evening that we -- even though we were live on the air, that we need to get out of the area because there were gunshots in the area, Molotov cocktails were thrown, people were injured. We saw someone get shot right in front of us, witnessed the chaos until about 3:00 a.m. Eastern Time.

CNN's George Howell has been witnessing a lot of this as well. He joins us now with an update this morning.

Good morning to you, George. I'm glad that you're OK this morning.

GEORGE HOWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And Don, same to you and good morning to you. Fair to say, look, it comes down to two things, crowd control, police finding the right strategy to control these crowds. Fair to say it's not happening yet. And then also those agitators, the people who are inside the larger group of people who come out to protest, who just want answers in a case. The agitators, the people who come to provoke a fight, they continue to show up, night after night.

The other night police changed their strategy, they lifted the curfew, but they seemed to still get the same results.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HOWELL (voice-over): Chaos on the streets of Ferguson yet again. In what was one of the most tense nights yet, police say some protesters provoked violence throwing Molotov cocktails, starting at least two fires, even firing upon police.

JOHNSON: I stood there and listened over the radio and heard the screams of those officers who were under gunfire. I went back to our squad vehicle and saw the gentleman laying in the back who had been shot.

HOWELL: Officers responding with stun grenades and tear gas. Two people shot, civilians shot by civilians, police say. Both expected to survive. CNN cameras caught one protester appearing to ignite a building. Flames filling up inside. Police say it was a small number of agitators who incited the violence and their response.

JOHNSON: Bottles were thrown from the middle and the back of a large crowd. These criminal acts came from a tiny minority of lawbreakers.

HOWELL: Our own crews forced to take precautions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, listen, there's tear gas in the air here, and our crew is being overcome our crews being overcome.

HOWELL: Ferguson residents coming to the aid of this freelance photographer overcome by the smoke.

The night had started peacefully and remained that way until around 11:00 p.m. local. Even in the face of heavy police presence.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR, "THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER": Now I want you to look at what is going on in Ferguson, Missouri, in downtown America. OK. These are armed police.

HOWELL: But the peaceful protesters unable to stop the small number of troublemakers -- community leaders even forming a human chain, walking hand in hand to block out the agitators.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's to my understanding that someone threw a water bottle and it ignited the police. It ignited them. They started acting like we were regular -- at the end of this we're going to be classed as insurgents. Nobody is out here for war.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOWELL: The question then, you know, where do you point the blame with this? This situation, this particular situation, where the violence each night continues. Is it the protesters? Is it the people inside the larger group of peaceful protesters, the people who want to provoke a fight? Is it that or is it police, Don?

And you can answer this obviously, do you feel that police are being too heavy-handed in their approach? Those are the two questions that continue to play out as this community certainly hopes for peace, but you know, it just seems that this situation persists.

LEMON: Yes, it does persist and there are degrees, in some instances, the police are justified and it's warranted because they do have those agitators that are coming in to start the violence, and that's their only reason for being there, but then, Carol, I have to say, it was interesting, because for most of the night, there was more police presence than there were residents out on the street, and it did feel like a war zone, and I'm sure you were up watching some of it.

I could not believe the show of force, and you and I have been talking about just how militarized the police forces are. It really felt that we were like in Iraq or Afghanistan.

COSTELLO: Let me ask you a question, though. because I'm wondering about this. So outside agitators are coming in, it's a very small element that's causing trouble and they do it under the cover of darkness.

Why don't the people in the community instead of protesting at night stay home at night, protest all day long, and then allow the police to get those agitators out of the community?

LEMON: Right.

COSTELLO: Why doesn't that happen?

LEMON: Well, some people work, right? And they don't get home until the evening and they want to show their support, and there -- because of this disconnect between the police department and the community, Carol, people feel like they're occupied -- and there's a very loud truck behind us. People feel like they're occupied and they want to show police like hey, I have a voice here. If I want to be out on the streets even if it's at night, that's my right to do it.

But I think the lesson, and I hope the lesson has been learned by the residents, the peaceful protesters, the law-abiding residents that, you know, maybe you can't do it for a while, because you have all of these elements that are going against you at this point. So I think that maybe now they've gotten the message.

I know that the media won't be able to be out there tonight, where we were, and I don't think the protesters will be allowed to get out on the streets. There was no curfew last night but I think as you're going to be reporting today, Carol, as we're going to be reporting throughout the day, a lot of things will change between now and sundown.

COSTELLO: All right, you're right about that, sadly.

Don Lemon, George Howell, thanks so both of you.

President Obama, who has called for calm during the unrest in Ferguson, announced his attorney general, Eric Holder, will visit Ferguson tomorrow.

CNN senior White House correspondent Jim Acosta joins me now.

Good morning, Jim.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. That's right, the president is having Attorney General Eric Holder head to Ferguson tomorrow to get a better handle on the situation on the ground, in that troubled community. Of course, this is all happening in the midst of what is becoming more and more of a federal civil rights investigation into the killing of Michael Brown.

But at the same time, I just wanted to pass along, Carol, some details we've picked up in the last several minutes in terms of why the president is not traveling to Ferguson for the time being. They are not taking that off the table, but a senior White House official did tell me that one reason why the president is not going is they don't want to attack or tax the resources, those law enforcement resources that are on the ground that would be necessary for his protection. They think those resources are better being, you know, sent in to deal with the situation that's on the ground there that's unfolding.

At the same time, in addition to Eric Holder going in to Ferguson, Carol, one thing that we should also point out is that the director of the Department of Justice's COPS program, the community oriented policing program, Ronald Davis, he is also going to Ferguson. He's expected to be there on the ground today.

And this really represents, Carol, I think some of the White House thinking on how to deal with the crisis in Ferguson. They see this as sort of a policing issue as well, and they feel that better policing practices might actually help calm things down there in terms of organizing these protests and also organizing the police response to those protests. They feel like that might yield some dividends and serve to calm things down and so the White House really pointing to the arrival of Ronald Davis with the Department of Justice's COPS program.

And carol, you know, I can tell you this from covering protests in various cities around the country, and New York City, for example, the NYPD's response to protests in many cases, they're the masters at this. They can really do an effective job of organizing protests so they don't spiral out of control and those sorts of community policing techniques might be -- might be useful there in Ferguson.

And I think that's part of the reason why Ronald Davis is heading down there. The White House pointing to his arrival as well, not just Eric Holder but his arrival as well -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Interesting. Jim Acosta reporting live from the White House this morning.

OK. Let's pause and remember what this is all about. It's about Michael brown and how and why he was killed. As early as tomorrow, a grand jury could begin hearing testimony in the case, specifically whether to return an indictment against Darrel Wilson, the police officer who fatally shot that unarmed teenager.

CNN's Brian Todd has a closer look at Officer Wilson and the deadly confrontation that has ignited so much outrage.

Good morning, Brian

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. We have gotten some new information about this man. We have learned that before the shooting, the past year had seen a mixture of professional success and personal setbacks in Officer Wilson's life. And we're now hearing his own account of the shooting through other parties.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TODD (voice-over): A source with detailed knowledge of the investigation tells CNN the account of a caller to radio station KFTK is accurate and matches what Wilson has told investigators. The caller said Michael Brown punched Officer Wilson in the face as Wilson tried to get out of his squad car to address Brown, and that Brown tried to grab the officer's gun, that they struggled, Wilson's gun went off, Brown turned and ran. And that when Officer Wilson yelled at Brown to freeze, Brown turned and started taunting the officer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And then he said all of a sudden he just started to bum-rush him, he just started coming at him full speed and so he just started shooting and he just kept coming.

TODD: Friends of Brown say he did not fight for the gun and was shot as he put his hands up. These accounts surface as we get new details on Officer Darren Wilson.

A friend of Wilson's who didn't want to be named says Wilson went through a divorce last year, and has a child. Sources confirm this is a photo of Wilson, first published by Yahoo.com from his father's Facebook page. It references a commendation Wilson got in February.

CHIEF THOMAS JACKSON, FERGUSON, MISSOURI POLICE: He's a gentleman, he's a quiet officer, and he was -- he is, he has been an excellent officer for the police department.

TODD: The 28-year-old has spent four years with the Ferguson Police and has a clean record according to officials. Jake Shephard, a long time friend, was asked if Wilson had any racist tendencies.

JAKE SHEPARD, FORMER FRIEND: He never talked about minorities. I mean, he was of the morale virtue where he would never bring something like that up.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TODD: Now one friend of Wilson's told us he never made racist comments in public or privately with friends. That friend who has spoken to Officer Wilson since the shooting told me that Wilson is, quote, "struggling." Now St. Louis County Police told us Wilson has cooperated with the investigation and has been interviewed twice -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Is he on leave? What's his status right now with the police department?

TODD: Well, the police chief of Ferguson, Thomas Jackson, told me that Wilson is now on administrative leave with pay. Jackson says that if he's exonerated both criminally and internally, he's going to return to active duty.

I asked Chief Thomas about his protection and about a secure location for Officer Wilson, Chief Thomas Jackson would not comment about that -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. Brian Todd reporting live from Washington this morning, thank you.

With me now Richard Weinblatt, he's a former police chief and is now director of Public Safety Education at Ohio State University.

Good morning, sir. Thank you so much for joining me.

RICHARD WEINBLATT, FORMER POLICE CHIEF: Good, it's good to see you again. Actually it's Ivy Tech Community College in Indianapolis, where I'm the dean.

COSTELLO: Well, I apologize and thank you for correcting me.

WEINBLATT: No. No problem.

COSTELLO: We appreciate it, but your credentials are stellar and we're glad that you're here this morning.

WEINBLATT: It's OK. Thank you, ma'am.

COSTELLO: The information about this -- the information about this officer is dribbling out, all people want is transparency. Wouldn't it help if police detailed the officer's side of the story?

WEINBLATT: Well, it's a complex investigation and I know that people don't generally like to hear that especially when emotions are so raw like they are now today here in Ferguson, and most investigations take a long time or extremely complex.

And Mark O'Mara, your CNN legal analyst, said it earlier this morning that they do take time and they are complex, and they need to do this by the numbers. If they rush to judgment, his fear is and mine is too, is that, one, not everybody's going to get their fair shake, whether it be the Brown family, whether it be the Officer Wilson himself, or the whole cause that a lot of people are using as a call to justice. I think it shouldn't just be a justice for Mike Brown, it should be a justice, period, for everybody, regardless of color.

COSTELLO: But -- and I understand completely what you're saying, but wouldn't it be better if police just presented the facts that they have right now to the public in the spirit of transparency? We know Michael Brown was shot six times. Here is where he was shot. The officer responded to the call at this particular time.

No one has ever come out and just said -- just presented those plain, simple facts to the public.

WEINBLATT: And I understand what you're saying and I understand your frustration; it's shared by a lot of people. Heck, to be honest with you, Carol, it's shared by the law enforcement community. A lot of law enforcement officers are very frustrated by this.

But the justice process -- and we have the best in the country (sic), it is not perfect -- but this is not North Korea. This is the best in the world at justice, and so we need to let the process play out and we need to let it be done and done correctly, so that there is no rush to judgment against either side, if you want to put a side to it.

COSTELLO: But again, here's the thing. While we're careful in releasing information and waiting for this case to unfold in the proper way, cell phone video is coming out that's pretty inflammatory, and I'll show you an example.

It is hard to understand why an officer, who just shot an unarmed teenager, would wander around this young man's body and stand there looking at the body, uncovered, for a period of time. I mean, we don't know what's going through his head right now, right? But it --

WEINBLATT: Yes, but one of the things a lot of people are focusing on is unarmed, as if unarmed is not a danger. Now, I don't know what transpired there and I'm not pretending to sit there and say that the officer was right and Mr. Brown was wrong or vice versa. I just don't know. That's why the facts have to come out.

But unarmed can be dangerous. One of the things that officers take into account, that they're trained for, is to look at officer-subject factors, in other words, how large is the subject versus how large is the officer. And if the officer is demonstrably smaller than the subject that's attacking them, if that is in fact what happened, that could be a deadly force situation. That's something that a lot of people are having trouble, understandably, wrapping their hands around and understanding.

COSTELLO: Richard Weinblatt, I could talk to you forever, thank you so much. I really appreciate your being here with me this morning.

WEINBLATT: No problem. Thank you, ma'am.

COSTELLO: I'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

COSTELLO: And we're following more breaking news out of Washington. The Pentagon is finding it involved in the controversy of transferring surplus military equipment to local police departments like in Ferguson. Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr is following that angle. Good morning, Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. Like it or not, the Pentagon is finding it self drawn into this controversy. Defense secretary chuck hagel now telling his senior staff he wants to see detailed information about this program to transfer surplus military equipment to police agencies, police departments around the country.

Hagel wants to know exactly how this all works, what are the regulations, what are the laws, how much control does the Pentagon really have once the equipment is transferred to a police jurisdiction, about how the police use the that equipment. That, of course, one of the issues in Ferguson right now as we have seen really the country begin to focus on the so-called militarization of police departments.

Hagel's very familiar that this program exists, but it's been in the Pentagon for several years now, not a lot of attention paid to it. So they want to take a look at all of it. And of course this comes as, just yesterday, President Obama said he wanted a review of the program. In Congress, many also calling for a review of it. This is a congressionally-mandated program, so what officials are saying -- look, as they see what has happened in Ferguson, it's time to take a look at it all, see how it's working, and see if something needs to be or should be changed in all of it. Carol?

COSTELLO: All right, Barbara Starr reporting live from the Pentagon. Many thanks to you.

Before I head to break, a new poll to tell you about. It shows feelings about the Michael Brown shooting differ sharply over race. The Pew Research Center found that 80 percent of African-Americans believe the case raises important issues about race; that's compared to just 37 percent of whites. And when it comes to police response, 65 percent of African-Americans believe officers have gone too far, compared to just 33 percent of whites.

Still to come in the NEWSROOM, President Obama is sending Attorney General Eric Holder to Ferguson tomorrow, but shouldn't the president be going there, too? we'll talk about that after break.

(COMMCERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Good morning, I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. The National Guard could not control the crowds in Ferguson last night, but maybe U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder can make a difference. He'll be in Ferguson tomorrow to talk with FBI agents on the ground and also he'll talk to members of his own Justice Department, officials that are already in Ferguson.

The big question -- why is the president sending his Attorney General and not going himself? Could it be because maybe the president might make things worse? Let's talk about that. With me now, CNN legal analyst Paul Callan and Kevin Powell, a community activist and president of the BK Nation. Welcome to both of you.

KEVIN POWELL, PRESIDENT, BK NATION: Thank you. Thank you so much.

COSTELLO: So, Kevin, the president said he will not be - he hasn't ruled out going to Ferguson but he's not going right now because the police are already taxed. He doesn't want to tax them more with his presence.

POWELL: Well, I think that is an unfortunate statement by the president. You know, you're the leader of this country. This is not just a national problem that is getting a lot of attention, but this is an international problem. People are talking about it all over the world.

And Ferguson is symbolic of the explosion of racial relations in this country. And here's a president in 2008 who was elected on bringing the country together. If anyone can come in and make a statement that brings the community together, he's got to dig into the resolve of who he is and how he got elected to office and do that, and when he --

COSTELLO: But, Kevin, frankly, the president hasn't managed to -- hasn't managed to bring many people together lately. He's become a divisive figure some might say.

POWELL: This is a unique opportunity to be a uniting figure in the last couple years of his term. Because this is not just Ferguson; this is New York, this is Texas, this is an issue of racial profiling and police community distrust all around the country. And just how the president showed up when there's been shootings in our country, mass shootings happening, he's got to show for this because this will not go away if we don't deal with it.

There's something very different about this even compared to the Trayvon Martin situation a year ago, where it's touched a nerve in this country. And these young people who are out there, and older people as well, are deeply, deeply wounded by this and traumatized and they want to see action. They just don't trust the process. And so the president needs to step in as the leader of the country.

COSTELLO: What will, Paul, the president -- the White House also said the president considers this a police issue, not exactly a political issue, and that's another reason he's not going. But he's sending his Attorney General down. Can Eric Holder do anything to help?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: This is a situation where politics intersects with police and law enforcement in a very, very big way. And, yes, Eric Holder can do something, because under federal law, if Holder decides that the federal government would be better investigators in this case, would be fairer to the community, he can supersede local prosecutors and take over the case completely. I mean we know that Justice has already ordered its own autopsy. FBI agents are out doing canvassing. So they're certainly looking at that as a possibility. I -- it's very rare that they do it, but Holder could invoke that jurisdiction if he wanted to.