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CNN NEWSROOM

New Ferguson Curfew: 12 Midnight to 12 AM CDT; Looters Hit Ferguson Businesses; Governor Perry Responds to Indictment; State of Emergency Declared in Ferguson; DOJ Asked Ferguson P.D. to Not Release Video; Interview with Carissa McGraw of Ferguson; Cincinnati Police Chief Describes 2001 Unrest; U.S. Airstrikes to Help Kurds Retake Mosul Dam

Aired August 16, 2014 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: All right. It sounds like -- Jason, it sounds like we don't have that sound. We're turning it around so we can replay it to people. Just to reset here, top of the hour, 5:00 p.m. Eastern Time here in New York on CNN. We are following these breaking developments that the governor of Missouri has announced a state of emergency in Ferguson and instituted a curfew there starting at midnight tonight until 5:00 a.m. in the morning because those protests became violent and looting happened once again last night.

Let's bring back in Jason Carroll on the ground there for us and also Karen Conti. Before I get back to you, Jason, Karen, to you listening. I hope you were able to hear that long, really community town hall meeting at a church there in Ferguson. Can you talk to us about, you know, what we could see unfold tonight? Obviously authorities are hoping that this -- hoping that this curfew is effective, but if people decide to break it and are out on the streets there and you do see them breaking the curfew, what kind of authority do the police have there? I mean, is this a situation where you would likely see them, you know, arrest big groups of people and throw them in jail for doing that? Even if they are protesting peacefully?

KAREN CONTI, TRIAL ATTORNEY: First of all, the state has great power to protect its citizens, so this is clearly legal. And you've seen this in many situations. But my guess is that, sure, they can prosecute anyone who is out there violating the curfew, but I don't think that's what they want to do. What they want to do is have people stay at home. But I think that push comes to shove and there's looting and there's people who is right to being violated, those people are going to be arrested and detained, there's no question about it. My hope and I think the hope of the police is that this curfew alone is just going to stop what's going on.

HARLOW: And Jason, to you, the reaction that we've seen in recent days to Captain Ron Johnson taking over security here, marching with the people, talking to them, really coming out in a sense as a voice of the people there. Do you get a sense that because he, right along with the governor, are the ones asking for this, that people on the ground, I know it's in the early stages, this was just announced, but are going to abide by it? Do you know what, Jason isn't hearing us. We're going to fix that technical difficulty and we'll get right back to him. But Karen, let's continue our conversation. At the same time what we

heard from a lot of the people there, the community members, they were yelling, you know, at all of the authorities up there and saying "we want justice." "We want to see an arrest of this police officer. For the killing, death, of Michael Brown. We want to see an indictment." And then you heard one authority come up and say, you know, I think your attention is directed in the wrong -- in the wrong place or your anger is directed in the wrong place or your anger is directed in the wrong place, talking about who actually brings charges forth.

CONTI: Well, I mean, this takes time. But it is taking quite a long time. My guess would be is because we have so much disturbance, because this is a small community with a small police department that doesn't have the resources, they had to bring in other police officers, there was probably a juggle of power, and now they probably have this in place. My guess is we're going to have either an indictment or a message as to why there's not an indictment very, very soon.

HARLOW: You do think that this has been taking, though, longer than it should?

CONTI: Absolutely. In Chicago when we have crimes like this, these things are investigated very, very quickly unless there's toxicology or some reason why it is taking so long other than what, you know, just the normal investigation, these things are usually resolved a lot more quickly.

HARLOW: Guys, do we have Jason back? We have Jason. Jason, let me get to you on the ground. Can you hear me?

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I have two people talking to me. Talking to me. I'm also getting people in my ear. Is that you, Poppy?

HARLOW: OK. It's me. And Jason, thank you for being with us again. I'm sorry about the technical difficulties. Let me ask you this. What we have seen is Captain Ron Johnson being really embraced by many of the people there, many of the protesters, marching with them on the street on Thursday night. Now he along with the governor are the ones calling for this curfew. Given the reaction of many in the community to -- positively to Captain Ron Johnson, do you think that that will help and in terms of them abiding by this curfew even though clearly we heard that a lot of them don't want it?

CARROLL: You know, again, Poppy, it's one of those things where you have to wait and see. Clearly after spending a few days now with Captain Johnson, people here on the street respond to him. When he came down here earlier in the week and was engaging some of the protesters, I could clearly see a connection there with some of them. However, there were also people there who clearly still did not trust and he was very honest, he said, look, it is will take a while to build some of that trust. So, two things need to happen here on the ground.

First of all, law enforcement has to find some way to deal with the peaceful protesters while at the same time getting those agitators, many of whom are coming from outside the area and coming down here not because they care about Michael Brown not at all, they are coming down here because they care about looting the local store, so that's just the reality. And you've got to be able to deal with both of those people. The other reality here on the ground is the following -- which is law enforcement itself, they have to all get on the same page.

Because what you have is, you have Captain Johnson's approach, which is engage the people in the community, speak with them, back off a little bit. Let some people show a little bit of heat. OK? But what you also have are law enforcement members here on the ground who are confused about when it's appropriate for them to make an arrest and when it's not. So, that's got to be worked out as well. So, there's a lot that has to be worked out. And so, when you get questions such as, well, what's going to happen tonight. There really is no way of predicting.

HARLOW: Yes.

CARROLL: You've got to allow these people to come in and do what they want to do in terms of law enforcement and see how the community reacts.

HARLOW: No question, Jason. I want to get to that sound that you were trying to get to earlier. We do have it for you now, for our viewers. Let's all listen in to some of what Captain Ron Johnson did say just moments ago at that church meeting with community members there in Ferguson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAPT. RON JOHNSON, MISSOURI STATE HIGHWAY PATROL: I have been tasked to provide security for the people of this community. Allow them the right to speak. Allow them the right to express their feelings. As far as the investigation, that is not my task. That's not the task of the highway patrol. The governor has enacted a curfew to allow us to provide safety for the citizens of Ferguson, but also to maintain the right of the people. That curfew will start today. It will run from 12:00 midnight when the curfew will start to 5:00 in the morning. We will enforce that curfew in an effort to provide safety and security to the area.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Jason, what's your reaction --

CARROLL: Listen, Poppy --

HARLOW: -- I know you were listening in throughout all of this. What's your reaction? And were you expecting something like this to happen after what we saw last night?

CARROLL: Actually, I heard that was on the table. We had heard from law enforcement that the idea of a curfew was something that, you know, they were always considering a last resort, not something that they -- many wanted to do, but what's -- what's happening is behind closed doors they're getting pressure. They're getting pressure from other people in the community. They're getting pressure from demonstrators who are saying, you know, the idea of politically what's happening here is being lost because, you know, these agitators are coming in and are being allowed to loot at will.

And that cannot happen. And, in fact, that's what we heard a little earlier today, Poppy, I was sitting in on a meeting briefly with some community leaders and they were discussing ways to come out with a plan, and if you will, in terms of what is acceptable and what is not. And one of the community leaders said is just simply, "A," not acceptable for peaceful demonstrators to be able to come out here and end up getting gassed. That's not acceptable. What is also not acceptable is for people to come in and loot Ferguson's market or down the street here loot Sam's meat shop, so there's got to be a balance in terms of the way law enforcement responds, so there's some responsibility there.

But the community itself has to -- has to claim responsibility as well. And you saw some of that. This morning right here on the street, some people came out and started cleaning up. Some people last night were arm in arm trying to stop some of the agitators from coming in and looting these stores, so you do have some people, members of the community, who are taking responsibility for what's happening here. It's one of those tense situations. Historically that has been building for years. And perhaps it's not something that's going to be solved in one night or even two or even several.

HARLOW: It's such a good point, Jason, and as you've been reporting throughout, this is just not about what happened, this is about decades of what has been, you know, happening in that community. Certainly we'll continue to discuss this. I appreciate the excellent reporting on the ground there for us, all week, Jason. And Karen Conti, I appreciate the legal expertise. Thank you for joining us as well.

It has been a week since Michael Brown was shot and killed, a week to this day, and the situation in Ferguson as you just saw is nowhere near calm. That curfew beginning tonight. This is a big question, what role should the federal government be playing in all of this? Our panel weighs in next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: The governor of Missouri has just declared a state of emergency in Ferguson and has announced a curfew there beginning tonight. This follows more violent protests that happened in the middle of the night last night. Crowds of people tore apart some local businesses, looted stores. There was even fire damage to at least one building. But this afternoon protests in Ferguson were peaceful. Once again protesters chanting and marching and holding those signs even in the rain. Some protesters very angry that the police there released this surveillance video which allegedly shows Michael Brown robbing a convenience store, taking cigars just ten minutes before he was shot and killed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Why we never here about the strong arm robbery until just now?

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Because they had to get their lie together.

UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: I just cannot believe that this is the tactic that this police chief and his administration are using to try to make this young man be deserving to be gunned down in the street like a dog.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Let's talk about this with our experts. Law enforcement -- the law enforcement angle of all of this, Chief Jeffrey Blackwell from Cincinnati, chief of Cincinnati Police Department joins us now. And also our law enforcement analyst Tom Fuentes, thank you, gentlemen, for being here. Tom, let me begin with you. We know that the Department of Justice asked the Ferguson police not to release that tape we just showed our viewers, not to release it, because they were concerned about that, and indeed, though, yesterday we saw the chief of police there in Ferguson release it saying, you the press, have been asking for it. And we feel that we have to release it. What is your take on the Justice Department asking them not to release it?

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: I'm surprised they did make that request and I'm surprised they went ahead and released it even with or without the request. I think common sense would tell you that the night before releasing it was the first night of peace after five or six nights of violence each night, you finally had things calmed down and then suddenly this gets put out there and it inflames the situation all over again and they have a night of violence last night. So I think that the cautionary word of DOJ in this situation played out, that that tape was responsible for just inflaming the public all over again.

HARLOW: And, Chief Blackwell, let me ask you about that because part of all of this is the fact that everyone, the public and the press, have been getting information piecemeal. There's no question about that, the fact that after that tape was released the chief of police in Ferguson said that the officer that shot and killed Michael Brown did not know that he was a suspect in that robbery that happened, you know, five minutes beforehand. But then later he clarified in an interview with our Don Lemon that it is possible that perhaps the officer that shot and killed Michael Brown saw the cigars that -- that they say that Michael Brown was holding and may have connected the two. It's very hard to get clarity here. Is this hurting the situation and the investigation?

CHIEF JEFFREY BLACKWELL, CINCINNATI POLICE: Well, I really think it is. I think that the lack of transparency at the onset of this incident has just really contributed to the degradation if you will of the investigation. And I can't speak to the chief's strategy or lack of strategy as it were for doing the things that he is doing. But he really needs to understand what he says and how he says it and how it impacts the people of Ferguson. And how it adds fuel to the already very intense situation there. There need to be words of healing coming out. There needs to be strategic dialogue that is aimed at resolution and reconciliation.

HARLOW: And do you not feel like, sir, we've been hearing that from him? You've been watching this very closely, as we all have. And you know, what I've seen, you know, is sort of very as a matter of fact, but at the same time, you know, he has said, you know, talked about the victim in all of this, Michael Brown. I mean, what -- what do you -- what do you think that we should be hearing from the chief of police there?

BLACKWELL: Well, I think things -- I really think things are a little bit out of order. And I'm not here to disparage any other professional in law enforcement.

HARLOW: Right.

BLACKWELL: I understand that he's dealing with a very volatile situation. But I would just remind him that the transparency is good now but he needs to also think about the words that he's using and how he is relaying a message to people that quite frankly don't appear to be listening with any -- any validity of what he has to say from his agency. So, there's a problem there. But there needs to be some people that stand up in Ferguson. There needs to be people that say they want to have some moral clarity. The people of Ferguson that stand for justice and stand for peace need to be in the trenches along with law enforcement right now. There is no excuse for looting to be going on six days later in a community in the United States of America.

HARLOW: Tom Fuentes, as our Jason Carroll reported, this curfew was an option on the table, but as Jason said, authorities were looking at it as sort of a last resort now. They are instituting it beginning tonight at midnight. Do you think it is the right move? Is it a good idea?

FUENTES: I don't think they have a choice. As the chief mentioned, six days into this and there's no peace in Ferguson so, you know, it's a difficult situation. Captain Johnson of the Highway Patrol has been trying to interact with the community and deal, you know, with giving all the information he can to the community leaders. They've toned down the police presence, if you will, or the appearance, toned down that military presence that was out there the first couple of days. But toning it down shouldn't mean turning it off. You know, they have an obligation to enforce the law. And when those hooligans showed up from other nearby towns and start looting, that had to be stopped.

Police officers have to serve and protect, not serve and stand by and watch felonies being committed. And the problem I have, and this is something to watch for tonight, curfew or no curfew, that the message that I get out of last night, and if I was a police officer on the street, once again, in that situation, I'd be scared that the message went out to all the hooligans in the greater St. Louis area, if you need a new TV set or if you need something, come to town, because we're not going to stop you when you start looting stores. That's a horrible message to send to bad people that are going to show up. HARLOW: We will be following this, of course, hour by hour. We'll

see what happens tonight, if indeed they do abide by the curfew that is beginning tonight at midnight there in Ferguson. Gentlemen to you both, thank you for coming in. We appreciate your expertise.

Also another really big story here that we are following very closely. Texas Governor Rick Perry speaking out publicly this afternoon for the first time since he was indicted yesterday on two felony charges. What are people in Texas saying about this? We're going to talk to a local investigative reporter about that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Texas Governor Rick Perry responded to a criminal indictment today calling it politically motivated and saying he stands by his actions which led to this indictment. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RICK PERRY (R), TEXAS: I exercise this authority to veto funding for an office whose leadership had lost the public's confidence by acting inappropriately and unethically. I wholeheartedly and unequivocally stand behind my veto.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Yesterday a grand jury indicted the governor on two felony counts. One abuse of power and secondly coercion of a public servant. Those charges stem from an incident last year when the governor called on a district attorney to step down after she was charged and pled guilty to drunk driving. But also allegedly threatened to veto money for a program in her district, money that he ultimately did veto.

We want to bring in Austin-American Statesman reporter Tony Plohetski. Tony, you've been following the governor very closely. He was adamant in these comments. He said this is the first of a prosecution that will be revealed for what it is, saying this is clearly politically motivated, that he did nothing illegal. What is your reaction to what we heard from Governor Perry addressing this very quickly after that indictment came down?

TONY PLOHETSKI, AUSTIN-AMERICAN STATESMAN REPORTER: Well, the truth is, I think many of us in the press corps were surprised that the governor not only came out so quickly, but that he answered questions. He answered a number of questions from, you know, more than two dozen reporters who were there.

HARLOW: I thought that was interesting as well, and then at the end of it he also brought it back to the -- to the -- to the crisis on the border, talking about his focus, you know, on securing the border. Clearly, this is someone who wants to make a run by most accounts for the White House in 2016 who's visiting some of those early primary states in the next week going to New Hampshire, then South Carolina. When you -- when you look at the charges that he's facing, though, these are two very serious felony charges that could lead to time for him in prison. He's going to have to be booked, get a mug shot, fingerprinted, right?

PLOHETSKI: That is all true. And what we understand from talking to the special prosecutor in this case, Michael McCrum, he's from San Antonio, is that he is currently making arrangements with the governor's defense attorney for the governor to come to the Travis County jail in downtown Austin sometime in the next several days to do just that, to turn himself in, to be fingerprinted, to be booked, and to have his mug shot taken. Just as any criminal suspect, criminal defendant would, in any other kind of case.

HARLOW: You know, we are seeing some fellow republicans coming out very vocally supporting Governor Perry. We're also seeing others like David Axelrod former top adviser to President Obama tweeting earlier today, quote, "Unless he was demonstrably trying to scrap the ethics unit for other than his stated reason, Perry's indictment seems pretty sketchy." What do you make of that? Right? A lot of people were surprised to see that and saw that as a big boon for Governor Perry.

PLOHETSKI: Well, you know, Poppy, there is obviously a lot of discussion on both sides of the political aisle about this. I want to say that just a few minutes ago I hung up with Michael McCrum from the telephone. Michael McCrum, the special prosecutor and asked him yet again, do you believe that partisan politics are at play here? And he says, absolutely not. That this -- he believes is a criminal offense. It deserved to be heard by a Travis County grand jury. Those grand jurors issued not one but two criminal indictments yesterday.

HARLOW: And finally, we have to wrap up soon, but what is the sense you're getting from the citizens of Texas, people that you've been talking to, in the last 24 hours since this -- since this came down?

PLOHETSKI: Well, you know, that's a really interesting question. Here in Travis County, we are something of a sea of blue. Travis County --

HARLOW: Right.

PLOHETSKI: -- is largely made up of democrats within other parts of Texas, however, it's -- it's very red. Republicans, you know, largely dominate politics here in this state. There is obviously a lot of support, still, for Governor Perry. Many people are getting behind him and encouraging him to continue vehemently fighting these charges which he said in his press conference today he plans to do. But there are others who believe that the governor did commit a crime and that he should be held responsible.

HARLOW: So, what's next in terms of the legal process here?

PLOHETSKI: Well, once the governor surrenders and turns himself in to Travis County authorities, presumably sometime early next week, he will be arraigned and then there will be a court date set, you know, sometime in the next several weeks. By all accounts the governor wants to put this case on the fast track. He wants his day in court. And some people think that that could happen even in the next 90 days so that he can get this possibly behind him and then pursue that possible presidential run. HARLOW: All right. Tony, I appreciate the reporting for us

throughout the day on us there. There from Texas. Thank you very much. We appreciate it.

And coming up, we're going to return to Ferguson, Missouri, where that new curfew goes into effect tonight at midnight.

But, first, this, while serving in Afghanistan in 2006, Retired Royal Marine Sergeant Pen Farthing took a stray dog under his wing, and he learned that he wasn't the only soldier who could use a four-legged friend. Here is today's CNN heroes.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PEN FARTHING, FORMER ROYAL MARINE, CNN HERO: I've deployed to Afghanistan three times. We head out and spent hours on guard. We come back and the dogs would be so excited to see us. You forget that you're halfway across the world in desert with hostile things going on.

And every single street corner in Kabul you'll find stray dogs looking after a dog or a cat does relieve stress in daily lives so it holds true for, you know, U.S. soldier as well. When I was serving in Afghanistan, I actually thought it was quite unique looking after this dog, but I was wrong.

Once we came close to leaving, I knew that I didn't want to leave them behind.

To date now the organization has actually rescued over 650 dogs or cats serving with soldiers from around the world.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Also, we helped the stray animals out in the streets. There was a big problem with rabies. We are not just helping the animals, we are helping the Afghan people.

FARTHING: When we get a call from a soldier, we have to get the dog from wherever the soldier is in Afghanistan to our shelter in Kabul. We'll neuter or spay the dog and we vaccinate it against a variety of diseases. Then the animal starts his journey from Kabul to the soldier's home country.

UNIDENTIFIED U.S. SOLDIER: When I pulled Kate outside of the crate, I was so excited. I was even more excited that she remembered me.

I can't believe that they're here.

She's been such a help. She's a huge part of the transition being easier for me.

FARTHING: If it hadn't of met Nowzad now in the first place, none of this would have happened. My connection with Afghanistan and life is because of Nowzad. So for me, every time I look at him, it makes me smile.

(END VIDEOTAPE) (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Welcome back. I'm Poppy Harlow, in New York.

And we're tracking significant developments in Ferguson, Missouri. The governor there has declared a state of emergency in the wake of those protests overnight over the killing of 18-year-old Michael Brown. Attorneys for Brown's family say they are now asking the Justice Department to oversee a second autopsy of his body. Michael Brown was killed by a police officer one week ago today. The St. Louis coroner's office did the first autopsy.

Let's bring in Rene Marsh, who joins us outside of the White House.

Rene, first to this new development, do we know why Brown's attorney, Benjamin Crump, is asking the Justice Department to oversee a second autopsy?

RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We do. We do, and he fleshes that out for us. Before we say that, I want to say this, at this point no confirmation from the Department of Justice that they will do that.

HARLOW: OK.

MARSH: So we haven't heard from them yet on that point. But we are getting this information directly from the family attorney, Benjamin Crump, as you mentioned. He sent this letter requesting that the Department of Justice oversee a second autopsy. The reason for that he says he wants to verify the number of gunshot wounds as well as the trajectory of each gunshot wound. He was asked, well, why do you want to do this second autopsy. And Benjamin Crump's answer in his words, he says, "Wouldn't you want to know how your child died."

So, clearly, they want to see this done a second time because they want to verify the facts for themselves. But, again, have not heard from the Department of Justice as to whether they indeed will oversee a second autopsy. We know that funeral plans are on hold as they await to see if DOJ will oversee the second autopsy.

But I want to put this all in context, because when you look at murder cases, in general, it is not unusual to get more than one autopsy if there's a reason for it. But when you look at these specific circumstances, you have the state who's looking in to a murder case, and they are doing their own investigation, and then you have the feds who is looking in to -- they are looking in to a criminal -- excuse me, a civil rights violation case.

HARLOW: Right.

MARSH: And they possibly may oversee a second autopsy. I spoke to several legal analysts and experts who say, now, that would be unusual. It would be rare, not to say it hasn't happened before, but it would definitely be rare.

HARLOW: Right. That is very important perspective. Thank you for that, Rene. Switching gears very importantly, though, here today, what we did

learn is the Department of Justice asked Ferguson police to hold off, to not release that surveillance video allegedly showing Brown taking cigars from that convenience store 10 minutes before he was -- before he was killed, shot and killed.

Are DOJ officials upset that their request was -- was not carried through? Are you hearing anything from the Department of Justice now that we know that it was released?

MARSH: Well, we know that sources are telling our Evan Perez that, look, they were against this. They thought this was a very bad idea from the very beginning. They objected to it. They made that very clear. Their reasons for objecting to it because they felt it would escalate the situation there in the community, so they laid that out for the Ferguson Police Department. And as you mentioned, we saw the Ferguson Police Department went against their wishes and released the video anyway.

Putting that video in context, remember, this officer, Darren Wilson, he never saw this video, so when he saw those two men walking down the street --

HARLOW: Right.

MARSH: -- he had not seen that video prior to that moment when he had the interaction with these two men walking down the street. So, we do want to point that out.

That being said, they predicted, they meaning the Department of Justice, that this would be bad news putting this out because, you know, if it wasn't connected to the actual altercation, the actual shooting, perhaps no need to introduce that into the conversation at this point. But we know how that story ended. We know Ferguson Police Department did actually release the video, and you saw what happened just last night.

HARLOW: Last night.

MARSH: The violence continued.

HARLOW: Yeah. We did. And now there's a curfew in place starting tonight at midnight.

Rene, thank you for the reporting. We appreciate it.

I want to know bring in a member of the community there in Ferguson, Missouri. Carissa McGraw lives there. She's been out on the streets for the last week since this happened. She was even under arrest at one point.

And certainly, I've been watching your story on CNN for the past week. So, Carissa, thank you for joining us.

Let me get your reaction first to the news that Ferguson will be in a state of emergency, has been declared there, and that a curfew will take effect tonight at midnight.

CARISSA MCGRAW, FERGUSON, MISSOURI RESIDENT: Really, I believe that's not the answer. Just like the military acts of the police officers last night and this whole entire week before they were called off, they haven't made any action -- they didn't do anything at all, and they continued to sit here and intimidate people. It's an intimidation thing and you are basically suppressing people who still have answers that -- questions that need answers. And putting us on curfew is not going to bring the people that -- it's not going to make the people that don't want to say out or stay in, it's not going to do it. You have people who at this point do not care what authorities say right now.

HARLOW: I want to get your reaction --

(CROSSTALK)

MCGRAW: Go ahead.

HARLOW: My apologies. Continue.

MCGRAW: As far, the people are, like I said, they're suppressed, they are frustrated, and the reaction to Chief Jackson's decisions and what he did, they don't want to listen because they're giving us answers or they're partial answers and it's not the full truth.

HARLOW: We did hear from the governor as well as Captain Ron Johnson heading up security and safety there. And, you know, one of the points that they made is we cannot get to the bottom of this, seek justice, do thorough -- you know, thorough work that's needed to be done here when there is violence that erupts on the street in the middle of the night. Do you see that point? Do you see that that has merit and that they clearly feel that this is their only solution at this point in time after what happened last night?

MCGRAW: I understand what you're saying. I really feel like the violence that has erupted has been initiated and ignited by the police officers themselves. Last night, for instance, there was no cause for anything that they did. They arrived with their lights on. They shot tear gas. There was the same protests going on the night before. The same exact thing. There was no -- anything different. It felt the same vibe. I felt happy. I was excited. And we had the same night. Until the police arrived, shot tear gas up in the air. Then they cut their lights off. And now they're in their militant stance against the people. At this point, the people are, like, wow, we're supposed to have our freedom, we're supposed to be able to do this, and you're still just being very aggressive with it. At that point, people become frustrated. So, like I said, if people aren't afraid to go ahead and commit crimes because the police are right there and they're still not doing anything, then what do you mean a curfew is not going to state anything? A curfew won't correct the people that don't want to be corrected. There are people that had to turn away from buildings they were breaking into to let them know that it's not going to solve any problems, and just like this curfew will not solve any problems because still they release all the photos of Mike Brown supposedly robbing a -- or aggressively strong-arming a robbery at a convenience store, which is 10 minutes away. Well, in that 10 minutes' time, how did he get from that market to Canfield without this officer knowing he was a suspect. And that officer didn't know he was a suspect.

So you receive all these photos and you receive all these things that they're not receiving all the answers that they want. And I explained to someone earlier, in college if you have an essay exam, if you give a partial answer, you get partial credit, and Chief Jackson gave us partial answers. He got partial credit. He gave Darren Wilson's name, no photos, but incriminating photos of Mike Brown. And so this -- it doesn't solve anything.

HARLOW: Carissa, before -- we do have to go. Before we let you go, though, I want to ask you, you've been protesting there. You've been making your voice heard. Are you going to abide by the curfew?

MCGRAW: I mean, I have a 9-year-old daughter and I would love for her to abide by my curfew. I do respect that. I'm kind of biased. But I do -- from day one I've always said, out of the respect, to be a mother, to understand that, I will respect her wishes. And from my personal stance out of a mother, being a mother, I would respect her wishes. And I would hope that the rest of the town would. But like I said, there are people that you cannot speak for the less than one percent that act out in St. Louis County. It's just not -- I can't speak to them on their behalf.

HARLOW: We appreciate you speaking to us and letting us know what you think and what it is like there on the ground for you.

Thank you so much.

MCGRAW: Thank you.

HARLOW: We're going to have much more on this story straight ahead here in the NEWSROOM. I'm going to talk to the police chief of Cincinnati about advice from his city and he has to give to Ferguson. That's up next.

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HARLOW: Well, Ferguson, Missouri, is not the first city to face questions about its police force or endure a week of anger and unrest like this. More than a decade ago, Cincinnati, Ohio, faced a very similar situation.

I want to bring in Cincinnati's police chief, Police Chief Jeffrey Blackwell.

Give us a little bit of context about what happened back in 2001, and what it sparked on the streets of Cincinnati, and, frankly, what you guys have learned from it.

JEFFREY BLACKWELL, CHIEF, CINCINNATI POLICE DEPARTMENT: Well, let me make it clear, I was not the chief then.

HARLOW: Right. BLACKWELL: I was at a different agency a little bit down the road.

But I've been here and I did study the collaborative agreement extensively, and to this day, carry that document with me everywhere I go so that I'm reminded of what my responsibility is to this community.

HARLOW: Let's talk about that. I mean, to summarize here, in 2001, an unarmed black man in Cincinnati was killed by police. This sparked riots on the streets. It followed a lawsuit of race discrimination against the city. There were riots, I believe, even after that officer's acquittal. And there was actually an agreement signed with the Justice Department in terms of being a federal monitor for the city.

BLACKWELL: Right.

HARLOW: What did that do? Because you think that really helped things.

BLACKWELL: It absolutely helped things. And one thing I want to make clear about the collaborative agreement is that we brought -- Cincinnati brought all of the voices to the table, especially those voices that were not heard from or allowed to be heard from up to that point in time. Those folks came to the table. Their voices were heard. They were included in the resolution process. Because Ferguson needs to understand that hope is not a strategy, so they need to get down to the table. They need to have some strategic objectives in place and they need to sit down and start this process so that they can start to heal and move forward and make Ferguson a better city.

HARLOW: How would you assess the way that the Ferguson Police Department has been communicating with the public over the last week?

BLACKWELL: Well, I think I share most people's sentiments when I say that, you know, I'm not sure the strategy has been the best. I don't want to disparage their chief or their officials there. But they need to be really sensitive to what is going on, not only what they say to the people of Ferguson, but about how they say it. And because things didn't start off with the right tone, in the right manner, with the right transparency, they're behind already. So they need to really be careful about how they say things to the public and what it means to people there. That community needs to heal, and the only way they can heal is by sitting down at the table, people who care in that community, coming together. And they need to get out in those tough places and those tough spaces when things are going on and be in those trenches to stop this nonsense and this looting and this rioting in that community. It is absolutely unacceptable for that to still be going on six days later. People need to stand up and make things right.

HARLOW: Chief, I wish I had a lot more time to talk about what your city has experienced and what you learned from it.

We appreciate you taking the time with us this evening. Thank you so much.

We will be back right here in the NEWSROOM after a very quick break.

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HARLOW: U.S. forces bombed Islamist militants in northern Iraq earlier today, part of an operation to help Kurdish fighters retake control of a critical location, the dam in Mosul. ISIS militants, who call themselves the Islamic State, took control of the dam earlier this month. U.S. officials warned the failure of the dam could result in significant flooding. Also controlling a lot of the energy there.

I want to bring in Colonel Rick Francona about this.

You're an expert. You know this region very well. Why is this dam in Mosul so important?

LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: For several reasons. It provides power to the region of the country. It also provides water. More importantly, control of it is very important. If that dam fails, it will cause a massive flood, meters of water rolling down the Tigris Valley. It is not that the militants will blow the dam. It is just that the dam is in bad shape. The Army Corps of Engineers called it the worst dam in the world. It requires constant maintenance. We're not sure this Islamists --

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: You can't maintain it when ISIS is there.

FRANCONA: Exactly. We want to get the dam back into friendly hands so they can get technicians back in there.

HARLOW: The U.S. airstrikes on ISIS targets, are they working?

FRANCONA: Looks to be. And it looks like there has been a bit of a shift. I know the initial focus of the air campaign was to protect Erbil and provide support. We are seeing it expand to help the Kurds retake this dam. It looks like the air campaign is expanding and the strikes are working well. What strikes me is they are providing almost close air support for the Kurds, which will require, in my opinion, somebody on the ground. I hope we've got --

(CROSSTALK)

HARLOW: You think, what, U.S.?

FRANCONA: Special Forces are special intelligence agency, someone down there. Airstrikes are much more effective when you have an American controlling American airstrikes.

HARLOW: We have been told by the administration no boots on the ground.

FRANCONA: Maybe the CIA has considered shoes on the ground. I don't know.

HARLOW: Appreciate the expertise, Colonel. Thank you very much. Thank you all for being with us. I'm Poppy Harlow, in New York. I will be back at the top of the hour, 7:00 p.m. eastern, with more news.

But next, don't miss "Smerconish" right after this break.

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