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CNN NEWSROOM

Missouri Shooting Controversy Continues

Aired August 15, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: And we continue on, hour two here on CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

And in just a couple minutes, we watch and wait to hear from Ferguson Police Chief Thomas Jackson. He will be addressing the public in a news conference. We will take that live, scheduled to happen any minute now.

But just context here. Earlier today, the department aimed for transparency, but now they are accused of trying to trash Michael Brown's name. He is -- you know the story. He is the 18-year-old unarmed teenager who was shot and killed by a Ferguson police officer on Saturday.

That officer, now we learn from this morning, he has been I.D.ed as 28-year-old Darren Wilson, a six-year member of the force. He is married, he is white. While releasing Wilson's name this morning, police also revealed Michael Brown was a suspect in a strong-arm robbery that happened about 10 minutes before Brown had his fatal encounter with that police officer.

Now, authorities released this video just within this last hour that allegedly shows Michael Brown intimidating and pushing a man at this convenience store. We have also in the wake of these new pictures heard from Michael Brown's family, and they are outraged.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a systematic way to concoct a version of events and to taint this boy's past, rather than look at his future. It's just a way to try to taint of minds of those that are supporting this family.

You have got everybody around the world that's wondering what happened. It's a colorblind curiosity. Blacks are wondering, Hispanics are wondering, everybody -- whites are wondering. And my point is, they are trying to distract away from that curiosity and now talk about his past, as though that has something to do with him surrendering and being shot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: To his point, the family saying this is basically character assassination.

Two correspondents standing by for us in Ferguson, Ana Cabrera and also Ed Lavandera.

Ana Cabrera, to you. You have been reporting all day long. You have watched the police chief from this morning, identifying this police officer, and then handing you these multiple pages of documents to sort of piece this all together. Do we have any idea what the police chief is about to reveal in a matter of minutes?

ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I know that this afternoon's press conference he mentioned he would be holding to answer media questions. He didn't take any questions this morning when he revealed this new information.

And so he said at that time, I will have the time in the afternoon where you all can ask me questions. So I believe that's what we can expect at this press conference here in a matter of minutes, a question and answer opportunity with the police chief of Ferguson. And, of course, there are more questions than answers still in this case in all.

And among the questions that have arisen today, why just release the information about the robbery at this time, and not the information about the actual shooting? Because now we know a timeline of events leading up to that shooting incident. But we don't know any more information about the police accounts of what exactly transpired between Michael Brown and the officer.

But given the information we have today, we know that that encounter from the moment Darren Wilson made contact with Michael Brown to the moment another police officer arrived on scene was just three minutes. And at that time, when that other officer responded, Michael Brown had already been shot multiple times and was lying on the ground.

So it was a very swift encounter. That's the new information that we learned of the shooting itself. But it's also why people here behind me have been angry since this press conference, because they believe the information that was revealed makes Michael Brown out to be a suspect vs. a victim of a shooting, Brooke.

BALDWIN: And that is worth the whole conversation in and of itself, which we will be having -- I will be having with Marc Lamont Hill in a matter of minutes.

But, Ana, back to you. Here's what I want to know. If you are this officer, Darren Wilson, and you hear over dispatch -- let's be precise. What exactly did this police officer know had happened at the convenience store before he responds?

CABRERA: Well, the 911 report was made that somebody had come into this convenience store. That person was identified as Michael Brown, along with...

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Here he is. Let me cut you off. Here is the police chief, Thomas Jackson.

THOMAS JACKSON, FERGUSON, MISSOURI, POLICE CHIEF: Doing OK. Thank you.

We ready?

All right. So I gave you a whole bunch of information. First of all, thank you for coming out here. We wanted to do this in this environment so we could hear each other and so that we could get whatever information we have left out.

So I gave you a lot of information this morning. Wanted to give you a chance to let you go over it, and then we have had some questions that have been coming in to our Twitter and so forth. So we want to address some of those.

There is a question about the timing of the release of the tape. So we have had this tape for a while. And, you know, we had to diligently review the information that was in the tape, determine if there was any other reason to keep it, anybody else would be charged in a crime. And we had determined that that was not going to be the case.

We got a lot of freedom of information requests for this tape. And at some point, it was just determined that we had to release it. We didn't have good cause, absent any other reason to not release it under FOI. So -- and decided at the same time it wouldn't be prudent to release that information, which, you know, could be a little bit -- I don't know.

We needed to release that at the same time we would release the name of the officer who was involved in the shooting, so that we could just keep open and give you all the information that we have. We have pretty much given you every bit of information that we have now. I don't think there's anything else that we have to give out.

Regarding the second suspect who was in the store in the tape, Dorian Johnson, we determined that he did not commit a crime and was not complicit in the crime. And clarifying one of the other questions that came in quite a bit was on the role of two officers.

Some were thinking it was the same officer who handled the robbery as the -- as was involved in the shooting. That is not the case. There were two separate officers. This robbery does not relate to the initial contact between the officer and Michael Brown. Having said that, I will take a few questions.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) any information yet, Chief, that would justify the use of deadly force, particularly outside the car?

JACKSON: OK. I understand that.

And these are questions that have to go to the investigation. And I don't think anything from the investigation is going to be released until it's complete.

QUESTION: Do we know if the officer who fired the deadly shots (OFF- MIKE) whether he knew that Mr. Brown was involved in this incident? I'm confused on that, that -- whether he knew Mr. Brown was involved in this incident.

JACKSON: I can only go up to a certain point, and then it's unreleased information in the investigation. And that certain point is the initial contact between the officer and Mr. Brown was not related to the robbery.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) Is there paperwork that has to be filed as a matter of protocol describing the conditions under which a weapon is discharged?

JACKSON: Oh, there's a use of force report that we have. But the whole -- all the reports that are going to be written on this are going to be written by the Saint Louis County Police Department. They have total control of the investigation.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

JACKSON: Yes. I don't have it in my possession. Everything belongs to the county.

Yes, ma'am.

QUESTION: How do you respond to people who say this is not Michael Brown on the surveillance tape?

JACKSON: I just think take a look at it. Just take a look at the tape.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: And the socks were different compared to the pictures of the guy.

JACKSON: OK.

QUESTION: And if it's under investigation, why not...

JACKSON: All I did was release the videotape to you, because I had to. I have been sitting on it.

But I -- too many people put in a FOI request for that thing and I had to release that tape to you.

QUESTION: Why did it have to be today? Why did it have to be today, Chief Jackson?

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

JACKSON: I understand that. But consider that if I just released that tape and didn't release the officer's name, there would be similar questions.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: I'm going to read you a statement. "Michael Brown's family is beyond outraged over the devious way the police chief has chosen to disseminate piecemeal information in a manner intended to assassinate the character of their son."

What's your response to that?

JACKSON: My response to that is first my heart goes out to the family. I can't imagine what they're going through. We have given you everything that we have now and everything that we can give you.

So that's from -- from our police department, we have -- you have everything we have got. There is nothing else that I can give you.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: No, I had a meeting scheduled with the family yesterday morning. Representatives from the family came. The family did not. They hadn't had a chance to completely consult with their attorney.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: It seems like you're only answering questions that demean the character of Mike Brown. We ask you guys questions about the way you handled this case, why you're releasing information, you said it is under investigation.

You just put more citizens in trouble by releasing that video that now they have to be protected, because their store and their business has been placed in media. And you say you are concerned about our safety.

JACKSON: Absolutely.

QUESTION: But it seems like you're only concerned about our your officer's safety.

JACKSON: I'm absolutely concerned about the safety of my community.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: Can you say whether he worked in another police department in this area before he came to you?

JACKSON: Yes. Yes, he was a police officer for six years. Two of those years with Jennings and four years with us.

QUESTION: How are you protecting him now?

JACKSON: I can't go into the security of that officer.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: Did you hire him?

JACKSON: Yes.

QUESTION: Can you talk about his injuries? You mentioned...

QUESTION: Yes. So the officer involved in the shooting, was he aware of the robbery call? JACKSON: I don't know. I don't know what came out in his interview.

I know his initial contact was not related to the robbery. It was related to blocking the road.

QUESTION: You're telling us that -- you're telling us that when the officer stopped Michael Brown the first time, he was not aware that Brown was a suspect in a robbery?

JACKSON: No, he was just coming off of a sick case, which is why the ambulance was there so quickly, but, yes...

(CROSSTALK)

JACKSON: OK.

QUESTION: This is critical. You're saying -- what are you saying, Chief? Did he know that he was a suspect in a case or did he not know?

JACKSON: No, he didn't. He was walking...

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: So that had nothing to do with the stop?

JACKSON: It had nothing to do with the stop.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: At this point -- at this point, why did he stop Michael Brown?

JACKSON: Because they were walking down the middle of the street, blocking traffic. That was it.

QUESTION: Did you find evidence of the stolen merchandise on the body?

JACKSON: Yes.

QUESTION: Why did you put more citizens in harm's way?

(CROSSTALK)

JACKSON: Yes. Are there any other new questions?

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: ... a photograph of this officer that you talked about?

JACKSON: I was asked that. I'm going to consult with my city attorney before we do that and make sure that's all part of FOI. I don't know that -- I just got that question.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: ... state police to take over the crowd control?

JACKSON: They're doing a good job. They have been -- they have actually been here with us since the very beginning of this thing and I have every confidence in them. The Saint Louis County Police Department is still here too.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: ... last night it was said it was a denigration to your officers, the decision by the governor to bring in the state Highway Patrol. Do you believe -- do you agree with Bob McCulloch?

JACKSON: That's political. And I'm not going to get involved in that.

What I will say is, I know the officer in charge, have known him for years, and I have every confidence in him.

(CROSSTALK)

JACKSON: Twenty-eight. Twenty-eight

QUESTION: Thank you, Chief.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) injuries to the officer? Can you just go into more detail about the swelling?

JACKSON: Yes.

QUESTION: There were some reports that his eye may have been shut or there was a severe injury.

JACKSON: Yes. Well, the side of his face was swollen.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

JACKSON: No, this has already been released by the county police department.

What I tell you about the incident, the shooting, is what's been released by the Saint Louis County Police Department. So everything I say to you -- I can't say anything other than that.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: Can you describe this officer to us a little bit? Can you tell us a little bit more about him? What kind of details did he work? How would you describe his demeanor? Did you have any issues with him as it related to racial profiling, any discrimination action?

(CROSSTALK)

JACKSON: No, we had -- he had no complaints. He was a gentle, quiet man. He was a distinguished officer.

Yes. QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

JACKSON: Yes, we do. I'm sorry

QUESTION: Could you describe him as best you can?

JACKSON: He was a gentlemen. He was a quiet officer. And he was -- he is, he has been an excellent officer for the police department.

QUESTION: How has he been affected by this?

JACKSON: It's devastating, absolutely devastating. He never intended for any of this to happen.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: The officer, if he did not kill -- if the murderer -- the murder and the robbery did not come together, why did the video come out, and the robbery -- it was not related, today?

JACKSON: Because the press asked for it.

QUESTION: Earlier in the day...

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

JACKSON: Pardon me?

QUESTION: On Twitter, there was information that he received an accommodation of (OFF-MIKE) service in the line of duty.

JACKSON: Does anybody remember? Does anybody remember? I don't remember. But I will find out for you.

One more question.

QUESTION: Earlier in the day, you said (OFF-MIKE) the description of a (OFF-MIKE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can't hear you.

QUESTION: Try it again.

QUESTION: Earlier in the day, you said the officer was responding because the description of a robbery suspect had gone out, and that description matched Michael Brown. Now you're saying he only stopped Michael Brown because he was blocking traffic.

JACKSON: No, no, no.

I don't think I said he went there because of a robbery call. He was in the area following the robbery because he was on a sick case.

QUESTION: If the robbery had nothing to do with the stop, then why would you release the video of the robbery? What's the explanation for the timing of it? JACKSON: Because you asked for it. You asked for it. I held it for

as long as I could.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: But there's no connection that video and the stop.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE)

JACKSON: We -- Captain Johnson and I just spoke about our communication breakdown. And we -- I had talked to Chief Belmar about this. We talked to the command post up there.

But I did not personally call him. I should have done that. I'm still in the county being-in-charge mode.

OK. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Appreciate your time.

BALDWIN: OK. Here we go.

So got a lot of new nuggets of information there from the Ferguson police chief. I think the biggest headline in the wake of them releasing the video and the still photographs of who they say is Michael Brown and his friend, Dorian Johnson, who, he cleared up, will not be charged, was not complicit in the strong-arm robbery.

The headline that jumped out at me was the fact that this officer with Ferguson police who the chief described as charming and a gentleman, and a good quiet man, the one who ultimately pulled the trigger, shot and killed the 18-year-old unarmed man, that officer, according to the chief, did not know that Michael Brown was involved in this alleged robbery.

The reporter asked the question, why did the officer stop Mike Brown? And the answer, because he was walking down the middle of the street.

Ana Cabrera rejoins me. Don Lemon is standing by as well live for me in Ferguson.

Ana, to you. That is what I heard. That was nugget number one out of that news conference. Didn't know that before.

CABRERA: No. That was new information.

This morning, during the press briefing, I think we all understood, according to the words that were said there, that the officer who ended up shooting Michael Brown had initially contacted him after hearing that there had been this strong-armed robbery and that the suspects were heading in the direction of the QuikTrip, where we're standing, which is also the direction where Michael Brown had been heading around the corner, a couple blocks away.

Apparently, he was headed to his grandmother's house. So, at any rate, we thought there was a stronger relationship to the reason that the police officer stopped initially or confronted Michael Brown and what had happened just minutes earlier at this convenience store not far away.

But now we know that they were completely separate. The only thing that's related about the two incidents is Michael Brown -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: So then the question you kept hearing shouted from reporters, so then why did you release the video in the convenience store? Why did you release the pictures? And the chief said, because you asked for it.

Don Lemon, to you. How is this news sitting with the community?

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: It makes people think it's even more fishy, because, again, even if the press did ask for it, you did not have to release them together.

When I was on earlier with my colleague, our colleague Carol Costello, we were asking -- he really left a lot to the imagination when it comes to why Michael Brown was stopped and the connection between the convenience store.

And in that police report, it says that they canvassed the neighborhood. But it does so -- it does go further and show that he went back because into service because he did not run across the suspect. But the interesting thing is, in this police report, the same police, it talks about shots being fired and then it talks about Michael Brown and the young man and the incident that happened during the shooting.

So, listen, there's a lot of explaining to do here. There is some very controversial statements being made by police officers, ones that need clarification and it doesn't help the situation here, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Yes. It doesn't at all, Don Lemon.

I hear just the people behind you. They want their voices to be heard. Don Lemon, thank you so much for now and, Ana Cabrera, thank you.

New information coming out, once again, just recapping from the police chief there in Ferguson, saying that the officer who ultimately shot and killed 18-year-old Michael Brown didn't know at all he was involved in that strong-arm robbery.

Coming up, the chief did talk about the officer involved, described him as a quiet, charming gentleman, husband, been working for the police force in Ferguson for four years, two in a different jurisdiction. So we sent our correspondent Ed Lavandera to go learn a little bit more about this officer, talk to some of his neighbors -- what they have to say about this 28-year-old police officer next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

And, my goodness, if you have been following this today, the twists and turns out of Ferguson, Missouri, let me just begin with what we just got from the Ferguson police chief. So he essentially just said, Thomas Jackson, that when -- so we have seen the video, we have seen the pictures of 18-year-old Michael Brown and his friend inside of this convenience store.

And there are allegations they had -- he, Michael Brown, had shoved the clerk here, the shorter-looking man, Michael Brown the one in the khaki pants, the white shirt and the red cap. Now, police say this was a strong-arm robbery.

What we just learned from the police chief is the officer who ultimately shot and killed the unarmed 18-year-old did not even know about this robbery, happened to be out in the neighborhood, and saw Michael Brown and his friend walking in the middle of the street.

And that predicated police stopping them. So lets just begin with that, with my legal experts, defense attorney B.J. Bernstein joining me live in Atlanta, and with me here in New York, CNN legal analyst Paul Callan.

So, Paul, just to you first, because that's the headline, what the police chief said, which then brings a lot of people to ask, so then why release the video from inside the convenience store if the two could be separate?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL CONTRIBUTOR: Well, the landscape is shifting on this case every hour or so. We get a new piece of evidence.

(CROSSTALK)

CALLAN: So it's very important not to make your mind up about anything until all of the evidence is in.

But why is the tape relevant? It's relevant for this reason. The police chief says that the officer didn't know about the robbery in the store when he stopped Michael Brown. But Michael Brown knew about the robbery. And Michael Brown -- this is how a defense attorney for the police officer will approach it.

The defense attorney will say, Michael Brown thought that he was being apprehended for robbery, and, therefore, when the officer tried to put him in the car for not being cooperative or whatever his reasoning was, Brown immediately started to struggle because he thought he was going down on a robbery in the second-degree, a forcible robbery, very serious charge under Missouri law.

That leads to a struggle in the police car. The gun is discharged. And then the suspect begins to flee. Now, we have no idea what the officer's version is as to what happened next. We have heard one witness say that Michael Brown had his hands up in the air.

BALDWIN: That's right.

CALLAN: But I'm betting by the time this case is over the officer is going to say he thought there was a gun in the hand of Michael Brown or maybe he thought Michael Brown, he felt something in his pocket during the struggle in the car. I'm speculating here. But I know how -- I know how these cases play out. And we don't know

what the final landscape of evidence will be in this case. So we have got to be careful as we evaluate.

(CROSSTALK)

BALDWIN: Agreed. We have to be careful, 100 percent.

B.J., what's your read on all of this?

B.J. BERNSTEIN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: We need to be careful, but what we have just heard was literally a breaking truth of this case, which is the outrage of the community when they hear their police chief, the Ferguson police chief say that that officer didn't know about the robbery, when they had released that tape all morning.

It's been all active on the news, on Twitter, people that I have been conversing with, thinking they are directly linked. But that officer not knowing that is a huge new fact in terms of how this case is being handled, and people's confidence in the police force, when, quite candidly, that whole -- Chief Jackson's press conference was very awkward in how all this conversation went out.

That doesn't provide confidence or people feeling like the ones who have been protesting that their community is looking out for them.

BALDWIN: And not just people. Let me interject. I have the statement from Michael Brown's family and I think we can't read this enough.

"Michael Brown's family is beyond outraged at the devious way the police chief has chosen to disseminate piecemeal information in a manner intended to assassinate the character of their son."

I mean, if you're Michael Brown's family, you are furious that these pictures are out there in the first place.

CALLAN: You know, the essential thing for a prosecutor and a law enforcement authority, keep credibility, is to have a transparent, open investigation, particularly where a cop is accused of wrongdoing.

And here, it almost looks like the community has been sucker-punched along with the press by this piecemeal release of information. It's really, really surprising. And I have never seen it in a police investigation done before.

BALDWIN: B.J., if this comes down to obviously use of force, and we don't know -- we don't know the details as far as what happened, if there was a struggle with the car, if there was a struggle with the officer's weapon.

All we know is that there is an 18-year-old unarmed man who was shot and killed, and how does -- how does one prove use of force?

BERNSTEIN: Well, it's going to be looking at all the circumstances of the case and listening to the testimony, what the officer said, you know, all the things that hopefully the Justice Department obviously is looking into it more than just this police department, because there is -- if it's only Ferguson Police Department looking at it, obviously, there's not the trust to believe that the right outcome is going to be there.

So there are more facts to come out in terms of what will play out. But the bottom line here is, you know, beyond the incident and the family's absolutely understood outrage of the timing and the disparagement that's gone on to mischaracterize when, in the end, everybody just wants the truth. And that's not what has been playing out so far.

We finally just heard a nugget of truth, finally, from this police chief when finding out this officer didn't know.

BALDWIN: B.J. Bernstein, thank you. Paul Callan, thank you very much to both of you.

We are also learning a lot more. I should not say a lot, a little bit, a little bit more about the officer involved in the shooting. CNN's Ed Lavandera, he went to Darren Wilson's neighborhood, tried talking to some of the neighbors.

They're fearful of talking because of fears of retaliation, because of what this man is accused of doing. We will hear from Ed exactly what they are saying about him next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)