Return to Transcripts main page

DR. DREW

New: Teen Accused of Attacking Jail Worker

Aired July 24, 2014 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, another hot car tragedy. A baby dead in the back seat. She`d been there all day.

Granddad arrested. The child`s mother is here exclusively.

And, is this boy a monster? Did he rape and murder his teacher? Did he attack a woman in jail? The behavior bureau has answers.

Let`s get started.

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: And welcome, everyone. My co-host is Sam Schacher.

Coming up, new information about the autistic twins found locked in the basement of their own home by their own parents.

SAMANTHA SCHACHER, CO-HOST: I know, and we have an exclusive with the neighbor, Dr. Drew, who told police about the twins.

PINSKY: Can`t wait to hear what she observed there.

But, first, 15-year-old high school freshman who is alleged to have raped and murdered a young female teacher. He`s accused tonight of trying

to kill a female jail staffer. Take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Philip Chism is accused of trying to kill a worker here at the Dorchester facility where he was being held.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`ve been charged with attempted murder, assault with intent to murder.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The defendant immediately wrapped his hands, both hands, around her neck and began choking her, repeatedly punching her in

the head, in the jaw, in the left hand side of her face.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two counts of assault and battery by means of a dangerous weapon and kidnapping.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In this Dorchester facility, Chism had a room opening up to a common area. Prosecutors say he kicked off his sandals to

not make noise and managed to follow a 29-year-old clinician into a staff locker room.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With his hands around her neck choking her, pushed her into the bathroom.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PINSKY: Joining us, Karamo Brown, host of #Ownshow on Oprah.com, Renee Herlocker, entertainment host, and Evy Poumpouras, former special

agent with the Secret Service.

Sam, I want you to remind me about the original alleged young teacher`s murder because, as I recall, the details of that case were very

much like what this guy did in jail.

SCHACHER: Yes. Oh, Dr. Drew, this kid scares the hell out of me. So, last fall when he was 15, he allegedly showed up to school with a box

cutter, knife, change of clothes, key mask, gloves. He then followed his female 24-year-old teacher into the bathroom, brutally raped and murdered

her and the documents also revealed that he violated her with a piece of debris. He also stole her iPhone, her credit cards, and her underwear.

PINSKY: And as I remember, Sam, he went out and watched a film, watched a movie.

SCHACHER: Yes, he enjoyed dinner and a movie immediately after allegedly brutally raping and murdering this teacher.

PINSKY: Fantastic. He`s a lovely young man.

Evy, the similarities between these two cases, is that likely to be the case? Does this tell you something? -

EVY POUMPOURAS, SECURITY EXPERT: It tells you what kind of target he likes. He likes women, young women. That`s his target. And he has a

similar M.O. He tries to get them in an area where he can assault them. Probably, this woman -- the second woman that he attacked if she hadn`t

screamed, she would have been raped, had her throw slit. He went for her throat again.

So, this is a severe problem. This is someone who, honestly, Dr. Drew, this is a serial killer in the making.

PINSKY: I don`t know about in the making. I mean, aren`t we already there? Isn`t that what we have on our hands here, a psychopath?

POUMPOURAS: Yes. There`s a lot of psychotic, deviant behaviors, a lot of dark behaviors. This isn`t just about mental illness.

PINSKY: No.

RENEE HERLOCKER, ENTERTAINMENT HOST: I think the question then, too, then, why didn`t they see this coming? I mean, he was -- you know, the

department of youth services was obviously kind of -- I don`t want to say lax for a better term but letting him outside of his, you know, area

studying and he was just kind of doing his own thing.

PINSKY: Well, Renee, it`s an interesting question. I think Evy wants to respond, I get Karamo in just a second. But I think there was doubts --

I mean, there was really -- could this kid have been the guy that did these horrible things was what was in question -- Evy.

POUMPOURAS: It`s because he`s 15 years old. This is what happens. Somebody commits a crime but when they are that young, the law looks at

them and says do we take this young man and try him as an adult and put him in jail for 20 to 30 to 40 years, or do we put him in a juvenile system,

try him as a juvenile, and then give him the opportunity to go back out into the world?

This is what the court system weighs. And so for him -- they decided to treat him somewhat as juvenile, but now, you see this repeated offense.

PINSKY: So, Karamo, this is a kid that would have been out amongst us based on the call of the juvenile justice system.

KARAMO BROWN, #OWNSHOW: Yes. You know, hearing talk, if I can back up and talk and say I firmly believe we as Americans failed this child. We

failed this teacher. We failed this counselor.

I work in social services daily. I understand there is a lack of support for those people helping to raise and support our kids. This

child, if had the proper support, we would have been able to identify that there was some type of mental illness there that was happening, that was

causing him to have these feelings.

But I can tell you from firsthand experiences, that social workers, case managers, teachers, counselors, they are overworked and it`s very hard

to see this happening.

PINSKY: Yes.

BROWN: So, I think we should be looking at this as how can we encourage people to talk to their -- to get the support for those people in

raising our future.

PINSKY: I`m going to channel my inner Evy and say that this was something that could not have been avoided. Sometimes, these are just

born. Although there is some evidence that he was exposed to some environmental stressors that may have really turned this from a potential

to a really serious disaster.

Hang on, guys. The Department of Youth Services told us they beefed up security since the attack on the female staffer. In the meantime, this

guy is reportedly now on one-to-one supervision with a male staff only.

HERLOCKER: Oh, that`s great. That`s super great because it`s a little too late for that.

PINSKY: Well, no, it`s not. Thank God it isn`t. It almost was too late. But thankfully it was just in time.

BROWN: But that goes back to what I said about why weren`t we getting him support? And why was -- there was no support. Somebody should have

been able to identify that this man after the first incident needed one-on- one supervision.

PINSKY: Sam?

SCHACHER: I`ll tell you --

PINSKY: Sam, go ahead.

SCHACHER: I`ll tell you what, Karamo, this guy is a fricking psychopath, is a budding serial killer. The fact that he took her

underwear and stored it like a memento is absolutely so scary.

But I think you`re right. If his parents would have said something, because for this incident to happen just right after, what, a year later

from the original incident with her teacher, it makes me think that this wasn`t -- the teacher wasn`t his very first act of violence. I wouldn`t be

surprised if there was a pattern of behavior since he was really young. Maybe that`s perhaps why they moved around so much because the parents were

hiding are or maybe they were fearful or maybe they felt guilty about his deviant behavior.

PINSKY: I like seeing Evy nod knowingly that she has a bunch of converts around her. Like, aha, that`s right. That`s what I`ve been

telling you all along.

POUMPOURAS: I`m proud of Sam. I`m hearing Sam and I`m thinking, Sam, you`re right on it. You don`t know what he did.

Maybe he didn`t -- you`re looking at also abuse to animals. A lot of serial killers, people who do this start off on animals, on pets. He could

have had fights. So, there`s a lot of things they do.

You don`t just get to this point overnight. There`s a pattern.

PINSKY: There`s a pattern and in this guy`s case, he moved around a lot. We really don`t know what kind of trail he left behind. There is

stuff there in his past that may be responsible for his behavior. I`ll tell you more about that when we get a behavior bureau in here.

And later, the mother of a baby who died in a hot car, another hot car death. The mom is here. The person who left the child in the car is this

woman`s father, her own father.

Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Colleen Ritzer was a 24-year-old teacher at Danvers High School in Danvers, Massachusetts, where Chism was a student.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was quiet, just kept to himself, because he`s new to this society. I mean, he`s a good kid. He didn`t seem anything

bad.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But police think he killed Colleen Ritzer and then dumped her body in the woods behind the school.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In an alleged attack with eerie similarities, Chism is accused of following a female worker into a locker room and

choking and punching the woman. Documents indicate Chism planned and took steps to elude other staff by creeping along a common hallway crouched down

out of view.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Sam and our behavior bureau, which includes Evy Poumpouras, Erica America, psychotherapist, Z100 Radio personality, and

Tiffanie Davis Henry, HLN contributor and psychotherapist.

And tonight, the high school freshman who`s accused of raping and murdering his teacher last fall now newly accused of attacking a female

jail staffer in almost identical manner. She, thank God, has survived.

A request to have him committed for a psychiatric evaluation provides some very revealing information. Here is what it is. Quote, "He presented

immediately with psychotic symptoms, yelling, screaming incoherently, foaming at the mouth while being restrained. This lasted almost two

hours."

The document goes on to say no suicide attempts, no psychiatric history, or substance abuse reported by him or his mother.

Erica, this really isn`t psychosis we`re hearing about. This is some sort of violent rage reaction and a guy with psychopathy.

ERICA AMERICA, Z100 RADIO: Absolutely. This is pure antisocial personality disorder, psychopath, serial killer -- however, you want to say

it, this is scary. Hannibal Lecter style. There`s no impulse control, very little remorse and he actually is smart and cunning to kind of play,

you know, play quiet before he attacks his victim.

Unfortunately, unless there`s something short of like a miracle he finds God and he completely changes, there`s not a big chance of rehabbing

someone is like this.

PINSKY: Yes, Erica -- I know, Evy, I don`t know if you agree with me, but I don`t think there`s really much of any. In fact, when you said he`s

going to be incarcerated for 30 or 40 years, that scared me. I think it should be for life.

My question, in addition to sort of taunting you with that -- tantalizing you with that is how do we get people to understand that just

because somebody is a nice guy in a certain moment, that tells you nothing about their potential -- Evy.

POUMPOURAS: You know, that`s a great point. We hear it all the time. Crimes are committed and you hear the neighbors, the friends, but he seemed

like such a nice guy. He seemed very normal.

And I want to say to everybody, is that do you think people who commit these crimes walk around with signs or this distressed or this crazy look?

They don`t. They have jobs like everybody else. They go to school like everybody else. They live a life like everybody else.

It`s what you don`t see behind the closed doors. You don`t know who anybody is 24/7. I say this one thing. You can never vouch for anybody

ever because you don`t know who somebody is when somebody is not watching.

This young man specifically, he cannot be helped, Dr. Drew. I wish I could say he could be rehabilitated. There is nothing to rehabilitate.

Either lock him up in a mental institution or put him in jail. But he cannot be released into so society, period.

PINSKY: I completely agree based on what we`re seeing.

Erica, do you agree with that?

AMERICA: Yes, absolutely. I mean, you look at people like O.J. Simpson and Joran van der Sloot. They do crime, actually get off of a

murder crime and do it again because they can`t control themselves. So, that`s what`s happening here with this guy.

A similar thing like if it wasn`t him, you know, he would never do anything like that again. But he can`t control himself. That`s what`s so

scary about this. So, we really need to put this guy away.

PINSKY: Tiffanie actually looks scared, Sam.

SCHACHER: Yes, I`m scared, too, Dr. Drew. I mean, gosh.

TIFFANIE DAVIS HENRY, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: With good reason, he`s a scary guy. You know, it really puzzles me because I wonder where this hatred

towards women comes from. It feels like something --

PINSKY: I`ll let you respond to something, Tiffanie. We`ve got some divorce filings where his mother claimed, quote, "physical, emotional and

alcohol abuse", it`s kind of a weird way of lumping those together in the marriage to the father. Then, the couple reconciled later.

He changed schools and towns several times before ending up in Massachusetts and we don`t know why as of yet.

So, Tiffanie, I`m fearful the parents were in denial and something was happening in each one of these schools and whatever was going on about the

stress in the home with the domestic violence or the alcohol abuse --

HENRY: Kind of impacted it.

PINSKY: Well, really took what was a potential and put rocket fuel behind it.

HENRY: Right, right. And I think that raises a great point, Dr. Drew, because a lot of times these things are budding under the surface and

all we need is a trigger. Maybe it is a move, maybe it is a parent`s divorce. Maybe it is going away to college where we start to see these

psychopathic personalities just kind of burst out of the seams because of some sort of trigger.

And that doesn`t mean just because you move your child, you`re going to end up with a sociopath, but you have to be very attentive and be very

supportive in any of those types of adjustments especially with children that are very fragile and this is a young man who seemingly is a very

fragile young man and was right on the surface, and I agree with you 100 percent. He is a sociopath. He should not be out of prison at all, at

all.

PINSKY: Going out.

HENRY: It should be really treated as an adult at this point and not a juvenile.

SCHACHER: Please.

PINSKY: Sam, I want you to go now be the Evy convert. The full Evy convert for me.

SCHACHER: Dr. Drew, yes!

PINSKY: Because, listen, we started this block with a piece where a young man was saying, oh, he`s such a nice guy.

SCHACHER: Oh, come on.

PINSKY: So, what did you learn?

SCHACHER: What it did I learn?

PINSKY: I`m turning dark but I`m getting a dark outlook on the world because of my dear friend Evy. But what have you learned?

POUMPOURAS: Come to my side.

HENRY: That`s more the sociopathy. He is going to present as a nice guy because he wants to kind of lure you in.

PINSKY: Manipulate.

HENRY: He wasn`t a nice guy. Yes, he has to manipulate and he was seen as somebody that the guards didn`t necessarily have to watch. They

could have turned an eye while he snuck down the hallway and creeped up behind this girl.

SCHACHER: With his shoes off.

HENRY: He presented as nice so he could do what he wanted to do.

SCHACHER: Well, he did that with his shoes off, too, which is so creepy and eerie. He did that with both victims.

But, yes, plenty of serial killers. Ted Bundy, a lot of them were very charming and they knew how to assimilate themselves well in society so

people would trust them.

And, also, Evy, I feel like I missed my calling. Do you think I could have been a Secret Service agent?

POUMPOURAS: I think you would have done very, very well.

SCHACHER: I think so, too.

PINSKY: There is a really important point to be had here, though, is that because people are charming does not mean that they are people you can

trust. You have to be very cautious, you have to look at the patterns. You have to understand how people are put together and this is a

circumstance where people could really learn something about the human brain and how it works and where its liabilities are.

It`s not as though -- what`s really so hard about this is it`s not as though any of us can imagine even being this way. It`s not as though we

can push Erica and Erica will suddenly become a psychopathic killer. Her brain isn`t set up that way. She is a whole adult now. The brain

regulates as a whole.

There`s liability in these parts of the brain and these people that develop the psychopathy and that liability becomes reality if the right

stressors are applied. And, you know, it`s not something that can be, unfortunately, usually cannot be treated.

Next, our most tweeted about story tonight. An outraged neighbor who spoke to police several times about the autistic twins found in the

basement. She joins us.

And later another -- another -- hot car tragedy. It`s hard to believe. This time, a grandfather has been arrested.

Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PINSKY: Parents accused of keeping their 22-year-old autistic twin sons locked in a basement.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shame on law enforcement for not picking up on it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If they put them in the basement because they didn`t know how to cope with autistic kids, they didn`t have the resources

or the money or if this was pure evil, this is abuse.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Detectives said it the room had an overwhelming smell of urine, no furniture or light.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not parenting, this is shameful. This is shameful. We don`t treat like this.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The boys reportedly held hostage by an external dead bolt.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PINSKY: Back with Sam, Karamo, Renee, Evy.

It`s a story you are tweeting about most tonight. Parents accused of keeping their 22-year-old autistic sons locked in the basement. Police

refer to it as a, quote, "urine-soaked dungeon." Parents are charged with false imprisonment and vulnerable adult abuse.

The twins have been removed from the home and, fortunately, medical checkups have found no signs of abuse other than the circumstances is they

were in.

So, the question for the panel is, were these parents cruel, or just desperate and not really understanding what these now adult children

needed?

Renee?

HERLOCKER: You know, I think it`s just a question to be had as far as there`s not a lot of resources out there. There are a lot of resources,

but it does take work in order to find them. And I don`t think these parents re really dove into utilize their community and talk to doctors and

what not.

PINSKY: I think that`s a good point.

HERLOCKER: It`s just hard to really -- I do kind of sympathize with these parents because they were maybe at their ultimate wit`s end and

didn`t know where else to turn. But, that being said, you also don`t act the way that they did and let them, you know, have urine in the couches and

not let them see, you know --

PINSKY: So you`re straddling both sides of this story.

HERLOCKER: It`s just hard. Very hard.

PINSKY: Anybody who want to be harsher with these parents?

SCHACHER: I`ll be harsher.

PINSKY: OK, go ahead.

SCHACHER: Listen, I definitely have empathy for the fact that any parent would have to deal with two nonverbal autistic children. But you

mentioned resources. They had 22 years to figure this out. There had to be a better way, OK?

She said the mother that she was saving up for furniture. Can you use the furniture from upstairs? Can you use your bed?

And the whole place was soaked in urine. They had to condemn the whole house because of the filth in the basement. That is not OK. That is

not a living condition for two children.

PINSKY: Well, OK, Sam, you brought something up -- the whole house was I think condemned, Karamo.

SCHACHER: Yes.

BROWN: Yes.

PINSKY: They cluttered was so bad that the hoarding sort of circumstance apparently was bad.

BROWN: But I disagree with Sam. I`m sorry, these parents are disenfranchised. You can tell by some of the things that we can read about

this.

I`m a parent and I understand how hard it is, and I`m not a parent of someone who has a mental disability. But I can only imagine how hard that

is.

And what realize they had eight other children who never had any abuse. These young men didn`t have any signs of physical abuse. So, we

have to realize it wasn`t the fact these parents were abusing these kids, they just did not have access to the tools they needed to know how to help

them.

PINSKY: I agree, I agree. What I want to do --

SCHACHER: There had to have been a better way, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: Let`s talk to the neighbor. This is Sharon Drennan. She is a neighbor who has -- she reports having called the police once before

because she was aware of a child being held in the basement.

So, first of all, thank you for joining us. I appreciate you coming here. I also appreciate you trying to take care of your community,

speaking up and having seen something, calling the police and saying something. What was it you heard about the child in the basement or how

did you come to know that?

SHARON DRENNAN, NEIGHBOR (via telephone): My son was friends with one of the boys that lived upstairs, and he did a tattoo for my son. And he

stumbled across -- but we were only aware of one autistic boy in the basement. We did not know there were two in the basement.

PINSKY: And did the police respond or were they responsive?

DRENNAN: No. And they`ve been in that house numerous times, raided that house numerous times. I know of 15 times and never stumbled across

them two boys that were living in that basement.

PINSKY: And they were there, I guess, Sam, because of some drug charges, is that right?

SCHACHER: Yes, there are a number of charges, Dr. Drew. This isn`t like the cookie cutter family and these parents -- listen, I don`t want to

bash them, but there is a lot to the story.

In fact, I have a question for Sharon -- one of the other children in the household was recently arrested for abusing and assaulting and robbing

a disabled child on a playground.

DRENNAN: Correct.

SCHACHER: So, were you ever able to observe the behavior of the other kids? What were they like?

DRENNAN: The other kids that lived in the house?

PINSKY: Yes. Were they OK?

DRENNAN: As far as I know, they had beds to sleep in. They were well-clothed.

PINSKY: What about behavior-wise? What was their behavior like?

DRENNAN: They were beating up people in the neighborhood. They were robbing people.

PINSKY: OK, well, there you go.

SCHACHER: Thank you.

PINSKY: OK, Evy, let`s bring in your expertise. What do you make of all of this?

POUMPOURAS: I don`t know. Sam and I are pretty much on the same level tonight.

PINSKY: Which is scary for me.

POUMPOURAS: I don`t even need to talk. I was going to revert to Sam.

I think that there`s all this stuff going on. The police hit the house, there was other nefarious activities going on. So, we`re not

looking at a cookie cutter household where these poor parents.

So, this just goes to he show you`re dealing with this is abuse. This is abuse on some level. Just because you don`t strike somebody and cause

physical pain, this is a different sort of physical pain. This is abuse. This is neglect.

BROWN: Those kids were only held -- I`m sorry, Dr. Drew, those kids were only held in the basement of 10:00 p.m. and 5:00 a.m. is what we have

been told so far. That`s because that parents did not know how to handle that.

POUMPOURAS: Does it matter? Is it`s infested --

BROWN: I`m not sure if that`s considered abuse. And bringing up the fact of the other children, that`s inappropriate because one bad apple does

not make these people bad parents --

SCHACHER: There`s a number of incidents, though, Karamo. There`s a number of incidents. It`s not just that one. There`s a history here with

the whole family.

PINSKY: But isn`t it interesting -- see, I`m with Karamo, interestingly. My bias is with Karamo. We both sort of work in helping

professions and our job is to sort of to look at the -- to identify with these people, to sympathize with them, even empathize with them and look at

what resources -- you know, how did they get to this situation? What resources might have prevented this and what`s going on that could be

helped?

Evy and Sam, on the other hand --

SCHACHER: Dr. Drew, these kids were sleeping on the concrete in urine.

PINSKY: I`m not saying we`re right. Listen you guys, I`m not saying we`re right with the capital "R," I`m just saying we`re bias that way. We

want to help people and it`s so sad. You know, it`s too little, too late.

But, you go ahead, ladies. Have at it.

HERLOCKER: I mean, why can`t we point the finger at the authorities, then? Let`s look at the professionals who looked in this house and they

didn`t do anything about the neglect or the abuse that they saw. Or I know they were there for drug charges. But, hello, red flags going off

everywhere.

PINSKY: Yes.

BROWN: I do completely agree with that and that brings up my issue beforehand, is figuring out how to get support for the people going into

these homes. I can tell you that a lot of police officers are overworked and they`re not also trained on how to identify the needs or what`s going

on in a house. They`re looking for drugs. You`re not looking for, is this autistic child being abused?

And so, that`s where, again, how do we train, how do we support the people who are going into the homes that are here to protect us, to protect

our kids?

PINSKY: I will give Evy the last thought.

POUMPOURAS: Well, listen, as far as I`m hitting the house, I don`t know what times they hit the house. Understandably, they locked the

children at night. So, if the police are going to the house during the daytime they`re not going to be able to see this happen unless somebody

tells them, hey, this is what`s going on.

But I do agree on the other hand, that as well law enforcement is going there looking for drugs. They`re not the really thinking about

anything else. So, they could have missed those red flags. Agreeable.

But, again --

PINSKY: Go ahead.

POUMPOURAS: -- these parents, this is -- you have to look at the whole situation, the whole family dynamic. And it`s not just, oh, they

were misguided. They didn`t know what to do with their children. There`s a lot more going on here.

PINSKY: There`s a pattern. Yes, I agree with you. It`s too little too late. But it is interesting, Karamo and I would make a visit, Evy and

Sam would hit the house.

So, there we go. Thank you guys.

Next up, the behavior bureau weighs in and we`ll hear from some of you on Facebook who deal with the reality of autism every day and what

resources are or not available.

And later, this baby was supposed to be dropped off at daycare but her grandfather forgot. She died in a hot car. Another one.

Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Twenty two year old twin brothers with autism locked in a room in the basement, and the people responsible? Their own

parents. Their sons were totally nonverbal and had a history of running from the house, so he had locked the 22-year-olds in the basement every

night for the past 6 years.

DR. DREW PINSKY, DR. DREW ON CALL HOST: These parents may have gotten gradually in over their heads. What they did despicable and we all agree

with that. But how did they get there and why didn`t somebody is help them?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In this dream world, you`re talking about that you can call in pediatricians and hospitals and behaviorist, it doesn`t

exist.

PINSKY: You`re killing me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There are financial issues with the family. These parents may think that they`re actually saving their sons` lives by locking

them up.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

PINSKY: Back with Sam and our behavior bureau, Erica, Tiffanie, and joining us now, Danine Manette, criminal investigator, author of Ultimate

Betrayal. This now, as I`ve said, is the story you are tweeting about most. Twenty two year old autistic twins locked in their parents` basement in

their home that is reported to have been full of hoarding clutter and the house is now condemned. The other children have had issues with drug use

and apparently acting out on people in the neighborhood. So, the question about these parents tonight is, are they neglectful? Are they abusive? Are

they desperate? Are they just over their head? What say you, Tiffanie?

TIFFANIE DAVIS HENRY, PH.D: I think there`s a little bit of all of it, Dr. Drew. I think certainly, they were in over their heads and no one can

blame them. You have not small children but adult children with you autism. And that`s -- -- that brings about a whole another set of issues. But

certainly, they didn`t know -- I don`t know that they knew exactly what to do with these adult children. They probably placed out of certain services

because of their age, so, now the parents don`t have access to the things that maybe would have supported them when they were younger, under 21. So,

now what do they do? Is and this is a growing problem in this country, something that we have to really look at because there aren`t institutions

and treatment centers that will support this unless you have a lot of cash. And these don`t strike me as the types of parents that had a lot of cash

lying around to be able to support not one but two adult autistic children.

PINSKY: I yesterday reported on the lifetime cost of the institutionalization of kids, adults like this, and it was on the order of

$3 million. Erica, what do you say?

ERICA AMERICA: Yeah, you know, I`m all about empathy, but in this case I really just think there`s no excuse unless there was a major intelligence

factor going on there, they didn`t understand in terms of the parents. We don`t know that, the level of their I.Q. But they basically forced them for

six years, not for like a year or two, since they were -- they were abusing them as children to sit in their own urine and feces. There`s no excuse for

this. Where I to see a problem is, there was a definite disconnect between social services and the people and the police that visited the home,

because if they were there as the neighbor said to report that there was someone locked in the basement, they should have found out how many

children were in the house? Where are the children? And the excuse was, I think, oh, they`re in school at the time. That`s why they had a notice, but

they should have met with all the children of the household at that time. So, I definitely think they kind of -- you know, kind of fell through the

cracks a little bit here, but I mean, this -- I think it really is abuse to some extent.

PINSKY: And I see, Danine, sitting quietly nodding. There is the cost right there. We put up on the screen, $3.2 million lifetime cost. Danine,

what are you saying?

DANINE MANETTE: In terms of the cost, Dr. Drew, I guarantee that these parents were getting SSI or SSDI for these two kids. My problem is that

even though they were overwhelmed, you`re telling me they couldn`t buy a bottle of bleach and clean up downstairs. You`re telling me that these kids

were bringing in two checks to this family. They were keeping the other kids clothed. They were keeping the other kids fed and they couldn`t even

get a mattress for these kids? They couldn`t clean up with bleach wipes? That`s the problem I have a problem with. They were getting paid for these

kids, which is why they kept them there.

PINSKY: And I think, Erica, that may have something to do. The clue on that one is the hoarding in the rest of the house. I mean, the house is now

shut down because of deplorable conditions.

AMERICA: Not only with their hoarding but there was bolted doors everywhere. I mean, something was really wrong with this entire family

unit. I`m sorry, I don`t -- I missed your name there, but you had a great point.

PINSKY: Danine.

AMERICA: About that there was some -- yeah, Danine, there was some financial incentive coming in to the parents. But like pure -- I think like

-- it doesn`t even matter about the intelligence level. You know if you`re locking your kids in a room with feces and urine that`s not right. I think

they knew that.

PINSKY: Sam, I want to show you some of our Facebook friends, what they`re saying and people have had situations like this caring for adult

autistic children. One of them says, quote, I know all too well how difficult it is to deal with autistic adults who also nonverbal, they

wander all night, they get into danger, they have no cognitive ability to understand or obey, difficult, tempting to lock them up or tie them down.

We just don`t because we want to keep them safe but we don`t tie them up. Sam.

SAMANTHA SCHACHER, DR. DREW ON CALL CO-HOST: Yeah. Again, I have so much empathy for parents that are dealing with this. Are you kidding me? I

don`t now how I would handle it, but there has to be a better way. The fact that they, again, were living with no furniture, sleeping on no mattress.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: It is unusual.

SCHACHER: Exactly. Dr. Drew, they weren`t even allowed to use the bathroom. Did you know that?

PINSKY: They were locked in overnight.

SCHACHER: No, even.

PINSKY: Thus the urine on the floor, and then no bed. That`s why I think they -- oddly, that`s probably why they took the furniture out

because the kids were probably peeing all over the place.

SCHACHER: Well, not only that, there was a bathroom that was nearby that they would lock because they didn`t want them using that go bathroom

either. So, they were forced to use the bathroom downstairs in the basement. That`s so weird to me.

PINSKY: One more Facebook page before we go on. Here it is. It say -- Facebook friends says, quote, trying to get care, this is an important one

actually. Trying to get care for mentally disabled adults is a nightmare. These two men need 24/7 supervised care. There`s a five to seven year

waiting list to get into care centers, obviously in this person`s state. It took me two years to do all the paperwork. It is exhausting. So, ultimately

we`re all saying the same thing, which is -- we are not excusing this behavior. We can kind of understand it but ultimately we are very concerned

about a system that lets people get into this situation particularly when there are such vulnerable children or adult children in the household with

social workers and police going through and no one picking up and no one seemingly know what to do.

Next up, another hot car tragedy, but even police seem to think this one was an accident. And later the child`s mother is going to be here with

me exclusively. We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: James Hollingsworth drops his daughter off at work but allegedly forgets that his 20-month-old granddaughter, Aurora, is in

the back seat. He was supposed to take her to daycare. Eight hours later when Hollingsworth picks up his grandson from school, the boy reportedly

finds Aurora dead in the back seat. The medical examiner says she died from heat stroke.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: So sad. I`m back with Sam, Karamo, Tiffanie, and now welcome to the program for the first time, Actress Katherine Lanasa, star of the

new USA network series, Satisfaction. Aurora is the 17th child to die of heat stroke in a car this year. You would think with all the conversation

we`ve been having about hot car deaths and these cases throughout the country that there would be a drop in this or people would be aware of it.

But here we are reporting again the grandfather in this case faces charges of injury to a child. The medical examiner has ruled this death an

accident. Katherine, I would love to get your thoughts on this.

KATHERINE LANASA, ACTRESS: Was he intoxicated?

PINSKY: That`s what I wonder. I look at his picture and I think, God, he`s supposed to be 59 years old. He looks.

LANASA: I know, it`s not advanced age.

PINSKY: He looks a bit older. He looks a little plethoric, we call that. You`ve got to wonder if there was some extenuating medical issue to

make him sort of out of that. You`re in Atlanta now, is that right, Katherine?

LANASA: Yes.

PINSKY: Isn`t Atlanta where we had the hot car dad go down? I mean, that guy was not intoxicated. He was a young man and yet still distracted.

He might have been a sex addict but distracted people can make these mistakes, no?

LANASA: I don`t feel like this guy, Ross, seemed to have made a mistake. That is the most deeply disturbing crime I think in my lifetime to

me. It`s just -- I don`t want to take anything away from Hitler but this guy, to plan the torturous death of your own child, if he`s -- if he really

did this crime, it`s one of the worst things I feel like I`ve ever heard, so deeply disturbing.

PINSKY: Karamo.

KARAMO BROWN: Katherine, to compare him to Hitler, that`s just ridiculous. This man had a child. The mother also clearly called him to

take -- pick up the other child from work. I think this was -- this is clearly an accident.

PINSKY: Karamo, I want to interrupt you. I think she was referring to hot car dad.

BROWN: Oh, hot car dad. I`m Sorry.

PINSKY: Whom is alleged to have, in fact, premeditated -- although now we`re hearing the cops may have overstated their case a little bit. Sam, am

I getting that right?

SCHACHER: Yeah. Well, with the footage, Dr. Drew, so, not all the facts of the case but with the footage.

PINSKY: With the footage -- the videotape of what went on in the parking lot. That story continues to unfold. Tiffanie, are we being a

little bit more clement to this elderly gentleman who is a few years older than myself, because he is a grand father?

HENRY: Well, Dr. Drew, you are nowhere near elderly. OK? Don`t let the gray hair fool anybody. You know what, I think there is a difference

between the Justin Ross Harris case and this case. In Justin Ross Harris, he was online looking for what it would be like to have a child-free life,

how to survive in prison, how long a child or an animal had to be in a car before they died and how hot the car had to be. So, there`s a lot more

suspicion linked with him.

PINSKY: You`re right. The premeditation is what -- Katherine, that`s what you were referring to when you were comparing him to other horrible.

LANASA: Yes, the whole thing is just so completely impoverished. I feel like as a society we have to question ourselves. Like how are we

producing someone like this, that this would be their values, that they would take this gift that they have from God or whatever you believe your

creator to be and destroy it so that you could do this impoverished sexual behavior online. It`s so disturbing. I feel like we all have to look at

ourselves as a society, have we lost our values completely? I found it completely core shaking.

PINSKY: And this one tonight, this story -- I agree it`s less disturbing but the degree of the negligence and the consequences of it is

what`s so troubling. Sam, what are we hearing on our Dr Drew HLN Facebook page?

SCHACHER: Well, gosh, the majority of our viewers, almost all of them, they are sick of it, Dr. Drew. They`re fed up with anybody, whatever the

reason may be, leaving a child in a car, in a hot car. So, for example, a woman named Liz, she shared a comment and I think it pretty much sums up

the sentiment of most of our viewers who are commenting on Facebook. She wrote, quote, accident or not, anyone who forgets a child in a car should

go to jail. The baby is your responsibility when in your care, and if you are too dumb to represent that, to remember that, rather, then you deserve

to be criminally charged. These stories make me sick.

PINSKY: Karamo, I saw you shaking your head, quick thought.

BROWN: Sure, yeah, definitely. I`m a parent and that`s inappropriate. If she is a parent, she he knows that we make mistakes sometimes. Sometimes

people catch them. Sometimes they don`t. Of course, we are so sad that this child has died. We should be thinking more about solutions. How can we

figure out ways to help people so this mistake doesn`t happen, because clearly that`s what we`re missing here is a solution that can help us in

this time where many of us are super busy.

PINSKY: You`re right. Hold it together right here. Stay with us. I`m going to bring now in Aurora`s mother. She is here. She says forgetting

about a child in a car could happen to anyone. Well, we`ll challenge that when we come back. Be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

LINDA HOLLINGSWORTH: Give me a bite of that burrito.

AURORA HOLLINGSWORTH: No.

MRS. HOLLINGSWORTH: Why?

HOLLINGSWORTH: Because.

MRS. HOLLINGSWORTH: Why?

(END VIDEO TAPE)

PINSKY: I am back with Sam, Karamo, Tiffanie, Katherine. Baby Aurora died after being left in a car for approximately 8 hours. Her grandfather

faces criminal charges, but the medical examiner has ruled this, an accident. Her mother, Linda Hollingsworth, is with me on the phone. Linda,

first of all, this is such a tragedy, one of the saddest stories. We are so sorry. How do you -- let me ask a tough question straight off the top. How

do you forgive your father?

MRS. HOLLINGSWORTH: I haven`t forgiven him. A month after this happened I had to move out of his house because of the tenseness between

him and my siblings. (Inaudible). There was a lot of anger, my siblings have blamed it on me, that it`s my fault. I haven`t forgiven him yet.

PINSKY: It`s just got to be -- oh, my God. You know he didn`t intend it, but, still, you`ve got to know, how could you, you have to be saying to

yourself. Help us understand what did happen.

MRS. HOLLINGSWORTH: He had dropped me off at work at 7:30 that morning and was supposed to take her straight to the day care after. And this had

been a routine we had been in for the past four months. He would either take all four of the kids to daycare and then take me to work or -- and

then for the whole week before that and the day before that he had taken the three older ones first and then dropped me off at work and then taken

her after he dropped me off.

PINSKY: Linda, can I interrupt and ask, is there something medical or some reason he could have done this?

MRS. HOLLINGSWORTH: The only thing I`ve heard is maybe his heart medication had maybe something to do with it, but I don`t know.

PINSKY: Let me ask if any of my panelists have a question for you, anybody like -- Sam, to you want to ask a question?

SCHACHER: Yeah. A follow-up that, Dr. Drew, were there any other incidents where you father was forgetful, leaving maybe other things or

maybe even leaving the child in the car before for a brief period of time?

MRS. HOLLINGSWORTH: There were -- there was maybe a couple of other times that he was forgetful in regards to her.

PINSKY: My goodness. Linda, listen, I guess, I`ll give you the chance to give a shout out or a warning to other parents, you know, what you`ve

learned, how we can avoid this in the future and just I`m -- it`s such a tragedy and of course it tears your family apart. I want to give you this

chance. Go ahead.

MRS. HOLLINGSWORTH: OK. Just there were a lot of naive comments I read before, you know, like how can parents be so forgetful and stuff. Being the

parent of her, it wasn`t me. It wasn`t my fault. It was somebody else. I guess it can happen to anybody and it`s something I would never wish on

anybody to go through. And I just, I don`t know. I have a page on Facebook, remember Aurora. I don`t want her to be forgotten, and you know.

PINSKY: Your heart -- listen, I know you`re hold holding it together, your heart just has to be breaking, though. I appreciate you coming in and

sharing some thoughts with us. Again, guys, the panel, it`s just, you know, Katherine, you`re right. We all need to check ourselves.

LANASA: I have a 4-month-old and I`m busy working and my husband just went to Australia and, you know, it`s really something to try to keep all

of that together and you have to be really mindful about who you have coming to watch your children, and you know, even older relatives. I pay

attention to what medications they take and if I don`t feel 100 percent, I have another person there with them. I`ve had a relative and a babysitter.

And I understand not everybody can afford that. What I mean is that we really, really -- these children are so innocent and they can`t protect

themselves.

PINSKY: There you go. We`ve got to go, guys. I`m way over. Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: We have an online after show every night. Here`s what happened following our segment about the husband who kept the sex spread sheet. Take

a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

LEEANN TWEEDEN: Even if you don`t feel like it.

PINSKY: You should try.

TWEEDEN: Do it and then once you sort of get past it, OK, well, just start kissing and start feeling, get naked and all after sudden you`re into

it and then you feel great.

MIKE CATHERWOOD: A lot of times I don`t want to have a conversation with my wife but I do it anyways. (Inaudible) serious. My wife says I

really want to talk about something. I`m thinking to myself, well this is gonna suck.

(LAUGHTER)

CATHERWOOD: Well, this is going to suck, but I love my wife and I know she needs my focused attention.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

PINSKY: Sam, you`re laughing. Go it to hlntv.com/dr.drew to see more of that or any of our after shows. Your reaction to that, Sam? You`re

smiling.

SCHACHER: You know what, the after show is fun. I think everybody should tune in.

PINSKY: Tonight, we have a topic that we did not talk about here on the show, and it`s rather surprising one. You don`t even know about it yet,

you will be surprise, too. DVR us anytime and then you can watch us anytime and, of course, the show that follows us is Forensic Files and it begins

right now.

END