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THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER

Hillary Clinton Under Fire; Air strikes in Iraq; Near Miss in Mississippi; Interview with Congressman Charlie Rangel of New York

Aired June 25, 2014 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: With friends like these, who needs terrorists?

I'm John Berman, and this is THE LEAD.

The world lead. While the Obama administration holds off on air strikes against ISIS in Iraq, Syria is launching its own. Can the U.S. afford to let a regime it has repeatedly condemned handle the dirty work in Iraq?

The politics lead. The year's ugliest primary is finally over, or is it? The Tea Party challenger calling shenanigans and refusing to concede.

And the money lead. A certain anchor for a certain anchor is leaving the desk. What does this mean for the old-fashioned network evening news in the age of the 24-hour news cycle?

I'm John Berman, filling in for Jake Tapper today, and we do begin with the world lead.

President Obama asked him to do it. Secretary of State John Kerry flew to Baghdad to ask him in person, but Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki appeared to shut the door today on requests for him to form a sort of unity government, one that would include Sunnis that Maliki has shut out of the process for years. This would be all in the hopes of quelling the uprising by Sunni militants tearing Iraq apart.

So if the prime minister won't play ball the way the U.S. wants, it could mean those air strikes that Maliki has been begging for will never come.

President Obama is sending a number of military advisers into Iraq, as many as 300 total, the first wave of them getting down to business right now assessing the Iraqi military strength and movements by the terrorist militia group ISIS, which stands for Islamic State in Iraq and Syria.

ISIS is taking over huge chunks of Iraq and air strikes are being carried out against them, not by the U.S., but by Syria, yes, Syria, the country the U.S. accused of gassing its own people and threatened with air strikes of its own less than a year ago. Syria is now targeting ISIS, a common enemy that it shares with the United States.

Local Iraqi officials say Syrian warplanes came across the border and hit several areas under ISIS control, but not without collateral damage. At least 57 civilians were killed, more than 120 others wounded. That's according to Iraqi officials.

Syrian state TV denies all of this. So does the Iraqi military, ISIS all over the map in Syria like a rash, just like in Iraq. The terrorist militia is battling both the government of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and other rebel groups that oppose Assad.

Keeping straight who hates whom in this scenario, it is exceedingly difficult.

These air strikes by Syria follow a report by "The New York Times" that Iran has been flying surveillance drones into Iraq and secretly sending two flights a day to Baghdad with 70 tons of equipment and supplies.

So, with Syria and Iran now essentially battling the same enemy as the U.S., it is making for some very strange bedfellows.

Here's Jim Acosta.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): All of a sudden, the U.S. may have some unlikely helping hands in Iraq. U.S. officials believe Syria launched air strikes on ISIS military strongholds in the Western Anbar Province.

Add to the Syrian air assault, U.S. officials say Iran is conducting drone surveillance over ISIS forces. But that kind of assistance from two longtime adversaries is not sitting well with the Obama administration.

JOHN KERRY, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: We have made it clear to everyone in the region that we don't need anything to take place that might exacerbate the sectarian divisions that are already at a heightened level of tension.

ACOSTA: The problem, Secretary of State John Kerry said, after his trip to the region is that Iraq needs to take care of its own security.

KERRY: That's one of the reasons why government formation is so urgent, so that the leaders of Iraq can begin to make decisions necessary to protect Iraq without outside forces moving to fill a vacuum.

ACOSTA: But Syria and its embattled leader, Bashar al-Assad, along with Iran, may have other plans. They have competing interests in Iraq and the sects that are vying for power there.

ANTHONY CORDESMAN, ARLEIGH A. BURKE CHAIR IN STRATEGY, CENTER FOR STRATEGIC INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: Well, it's the kind of strange bedfellows that would probably knife each other under the covers. The fact is that Iran wants influence in Iraq. It wants effectively as much control over the Shiite population as possible. And the Assad group has actually been using ISIL to basically threaten

other groups that threaten the Assad regime.

ACOSTA: Assad infamously crossed President Obama's red line barring the use of chemical weapons and survived when the U.S. opted against air strikes in Syria.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm confident we can hold the Assad regime accountable for their use of chemical weapons.

ACOSTA: Because of that, White House officials are quick to make a distinction between Assad and Iranian leaders who are working with the U.S. and other world powers to limit their nuclear program.

(on camera): Do Syria and Iran qualify as partners in the region?

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Well, Syria certainly not. We consider the moderate opposition, the group that we will -- that we will deal with diplomatically there.

When it comes to Iran, I think I have described sort of what we have done already, which is to have some discussions on the sidelines of other meetings that are wholly separate and apart from the conversations that are ongoing about our concerns and about Iran's nuclear program.

ACOSTA (voice-over): In the meantime, count on more blood in Iraq. Sending his own troops to take on ISIS, Iraq's Shiite prime minister is so far rejecting a proposal for greater power-sharing with Sunnis.

NOURI AL-MALIKI, IRAQI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): The call for the formation of a national salvation government is a coup against the constitution and the political process.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: Our thanks to Jim Acosta for that report.

Joining me now here in New York, Fareed Zakaria, host of CNN's "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS."

And, Fareed, as if this could get any more complicated, the U.S. now in a situation where the enemy of my enemy is a dictator. It's not like the White House can call Syria and say, thanks for this, but to an extent, was this inevitable by the U.S. saying we're not going get involved with air strikes right now, by the U.S. saying our response is going to be very, very limited?

Does that create a vacuum where Syria and Iran were bound to get involved?

FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN WORLD AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, I think that they were bound to get involved anyway and they have been involved for the last several years.

The thing we have got to remember is that we think of the Middle East in terms of borders that are real and hard and states, and we think of it in terms of dictators and democrats. What's really happening in that part of the world is a sectarian war between the Shias and the Sunnis. This crosses all borders, so that ISIS is battling the Shia government in Baghdad. It's battling what it regards as essentially a Shia government in Damascus, in Syria.

It's an Alawite regime, but it's basically considered a heretical regime. So they have got the same enemy. The Iranians, the Syrians and the Iraqi government all see ISIS as their enemy. We are the ones who come in with the complication. We say, well, we sort of like the Iraqi government because it's sort of democratic, but we don't like the Syrian government because it's a dictatorship, and we don't like the Iranians, but we kind of -- you know, our position is incoherent.

And I don't mean this about the Obama administration. I mean it about U.S. policy, because we are trying to overlay this idea that we bring to the party, which is, there is going to be democracy and pluralism.

That's not what's going on there. This is a Shia-Sunni fight. And if you get involved, you're picking a side.

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: Well, that's exactly right. So, you could say Syria, Iran, all this extra complication could be an argument just for saying, you know what? It's such a mess, another reason we shouldn't be there.

ZAKARIA: Well, I think it certainly suggests -- look, one very realpolitik way to look at this would be to say, a lot of bad guys are killing each other, that this is not entirely bad for the United States.

Hezbollah, for example, a terrorist group that we really don't like, is busy trying to support the Syrian government and perhaps even helping the Iraqi governments. The Iranians' Revolutionary Guard is in there.

All these guys are being distracted from doing all the bad stuff we worry about because they're helping their friends. You know, at the very least, let some of this sort itself out before we jump in there, as I say, with our very different notions.

And, yes, if we are going to have 600,000 troops and impose order, maybe we can remake this region, but, otherwise, let's just watch for a little while.

BERMAN: Let's talk about one group that the United States would like to see acting more. That's the Iraqi government of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, who did deliver that speech today where he essentially said, no, I'm not going to form a unity government here. I know you want it, United States, but no thanks. I don't think I will right now.

What does that say right now about the U.S. influence on that government? ZAKARIA: Look, we tried to get him to do this when we had 150,000 troops in Iraq. The United States, Washington pressed him, and Maliki was pretty unyielding at that point.

What we have got to remember, again, this is really democracy in action, in the sense that Maliki wins by appealing to the Shiites. And his worry and the reason he gave that speech this morning is, his worry is he needs Shiite allies. And he's worried about his right.

He's got a Tea Party. It's called Muqtada al-Sadr. And that guy isn't going to support him if he makes nice to the Sunnis. So he's trying to figure out how he can cobble together a stable majority in Parliament.

And Maliki is to blame for all this. I'm not justifying, but I'm explaining to you, even in Iraq, there is a real sectarian war even in the ballot box.

BERMAN: Has President Obama and Secretary of State John Kerry given Maliki a condition that he will never meet or can never meet?

ZAKARIA: He could meet it.

I think the real realistic scenario would have been, if a long time ago, the Bush administration hadn't chosen Maliki and these hard-line Shia parties, but we are where we are. At this point, it would be tough for Maliki -- it would go against his nature.

BERMAN: Right.

ZAKARIA: You are asking him his -- for 25 years, this guy has been a hard-line Shiite sectarian politician.

People forget, when he was in exile from Saddam Hussein's regime, he lived in Iran. He lived in Damascus. He was funded by the Iranians. So, now to say to him, become an inclusive, pluralistic democrat, that's not who he is.

BERMAN: Fareed Zakaria, complicated situation getting more complicated by the day. Thanks so much.

ZAKARIA: Pleasure.

BERMAN: Don't forget, you can watch "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS" this Sunday. Promises to be fascinating, 10:00 a.m. Eastern time.

Coming up for us on THE LEAD: the Republican establishment claiming victory in a tough-fought race in the Deep South. But now the Tea Party candidate is claiming fraud and pointing fingers at Democrats.

Plus, thanks, but she's all set -- Hillary Clinton saying Bill's very sweet, but she doesn't need him fighting her battles for her. Is she doing a good enough job defending herself, though?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Welcome back to THE LEAD, everyone.

The politics lead -- it was a near-miss down in Mississippi. The Tea Party's hopes for another historic upset shattered last night when six-term Senator Thad Cochran eked out a win against challenger Chris McDaniel, but the ugliest, bloodiest fight of the primary season did not end with a handshake and a call for unity at the final bell. It doesn't appear to have ended at all quite yet.

Our chief congressional correspondent Dana Bash down in Jackson.

Dana, you know, is this thing over yet?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it certainly looks like it's over, but we haven't gotten what we normally get when a campaign is over and that is a concession from the person who didn't win.

Chris McDaniel, the challenger, has been very active on his social media site. It has been crickets since yesterday, since when he was very combative. But we do have a sense that perhaps we will hear from him soon to decide whether or not he is going to go forward or whether he is going to keep up his very tough stance about how he feels this runoff went.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BASH (voice-over): This was anything, but a concession speech.

STATE SEN. CHRIS MCDANIEL (R-MS), SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: So much for bold colors. So much for principle.

BASH: You've got to be combative to battle a 36-year Senate veteran in your own party. Yet, Chris McDaniel took anti-establishment Tea Party fervor to a whole new level.

MCDANIEL: There is something unusual about a Republican primary that's decided by liberal Democrats. I guess they can take some consolation in the fact that they did something tonight, by once again compromising, by once again reaching across the aisle, by once again abandoning the conservative movement.

BASH: McDaniel was talking about an aggressive Cochran effort to win his Republican runoff with the help of Democratic voters, allowed in Mississippi -- on the coast where Cochran brought federal dollars for defense contractors in aid after Katrina and by enlisting African- American organizers like Jackie Bland who handed out 5,000 flyers.

JACKIE BLAND, ORGANIZER: I'm a Democrat, but I'm supporting Thad Cochran.

BASH: That kind of outreach worked. We saw it first hand at this voting precinct.

(on camera): Did you have people in your community coming up to you and saying we've got to get out and vote for Senator Cochran?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, they did.

BASH: And what was your argument?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, they're just showing where we need a man that could support us.

BASH (voice-over): When polls closed, turnout here tripled from primary day three weeks earlier, up 7,000 votes for Cochran in the broader Hinds County.

Henry Barbour helped lead the unusual effort to spend big bucks to get out the Democratic vote for a Republican in a GOP race.

(on camera): Chris McDaniel clearly feels like he got robbed, that the vote turnout and the victory that Cochran had was in large part because people like you got Democrats to the polls.

HENRY BARBOUR, RNC NATIONAL COMMITTEEMAN, MISSISSIPPI: Well, in America we have a right to vote and in Mississippi, we don't register by party. So, whites and blacks get to vote in a Republican primary if they decide, and I think the constitution gives them that right.

BASH (voice-over): Barbour, the nephew of former Governor Haley Barbour also sits on the Republican National Committee.

SEN. THAD COCHRAN (R), MISSISSIPPI: Thank you very much.

BASH: He hopes a white Mississippi Republican getting African- American votes can be a model for expanding the GOP nationally beyond largely white voters.

BARBOUR: It just makes sense that you would talk to folks who aren't just like you, and I think that's a healthy thing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: But it's really unclear whether the coalition that was built to get Thad Cochran a win here yesterday really can be a model for the Republican Party more broadly.

In many ways, John, Cochran is unique. He's somebody who had spent four decades building bridges with the African-American community and other people that are not traditional Republicans here in Mississippi and they were in some ways paying him back for that support and federal dollars and other ways, and also the flipside of that is that they were very concerned about his conservative challenger winning -- John.

BERMAN: All right. Thanks so much, Dana, our tireless chief congressional correspondent Dana Bash in Mississippi. Thanks so much.

In another contentious primary face-off, Democratic Congressman Charlie Rangel fought to keep a House seat that he's occupied since 1971. His main challenger, State Senator Espaillat who he beat in 2012. Rangel was able to eke out a win yet again, but his opponent has yet to concede. So, why such a close call for a congressman seeking his 23rd term?

Let's asks him. Congressman Charlie Rangel joins me now on the phone.

Congressman, thank you so much for being with us.

Two straight elections like a total combined margin of victory of like 2,000. Why has it been so close for you?

REP. CHARLIE RANGEL (D), NEW YORK (via telephone): Well, it's been -- a new district was attached (ph). This happens to many members. About 20 percent of my district that now go to a different county, and I haven't served that community before and my opponent was apparently more popular in that district than I thought he would be. Nevertheless, I did very well in all parts of the district and while he hasn't conceded I would think the absentee ballots would not make a difference in the outcome of the election.

BERMAN: Congressman, President Obama did not endorse it two years ago. He didn't endorse you this year either. Has he called to congratulate you yet?

RANGEL: No, he hasn't, but he never has. And so quite frankly, until you raised it, I've never even thought about having the president of the United States call in the Democrat Party, a winner.

BERMAN: Do you regret, though, that there appears to be this friction between the two of you. I mean, he said what he said about you in the past and hasn't become involved in your race. It would have made a big difference if he did.

RANGEL: Well, I have been at the White House with the president at least half a dozen times this year. And I am confident that the president and I don't have any problems at all in terms of the agenda, and it is true that -- that he made a policy of not endorsing.

But please take my word for it. I'm not running for a cabinet position. I've had the support of all of the legislators in the Democratic Party and the leadership and Nancy Pelosi. And so, my job, basically won't be in the White House. It will be working in the House of Representatives, and I've worked, you know, under Republican and Democratic presidents.

BERMAN: Can I ask you a question out of your district right now as a political expert. What happened down in Mississippi, Thad Cochran appears to have been re-elected, a Republican, with some significant black turnout down there. Do you think there's anything wrong with African-Americans getting out and voting like this in a Republican primary?

RANGEL: Of course not. My God, I think that's what it's all about.

Of course, this is unusual for states to allow people to join in their primaries regardless of their registration. But in the case of Mississippi when clearly they look at the Tea Party candidate and looked at Thad Cochran, they made a determination as to which would be better between the two for Mississippi and, my God, it just seems to me it makes a lot of sense in view of the fact that the Tea Party is so unpredictable and actually don't care too much about the Republican Party or the country as we can see as to what happened with Eric Cantor.

BERMAN: Congressman Rangel, thank you so much for joining us and I appreciate your time here. Good luck going forward, sir.

RANGEL: Have a great day. Thank you.

BERMAN: Coming up for us, a new Republican tactic could take on President Obama. Sue him! Why the speaker of the House says he's had enough of the president's action and is ready to file a lawsuit to stop him.

Plus, a deadly virus spreading so quickly doctors say it is out of control. How they are fighting to prevent it from becoming a worldwide epidemic.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: In politics -- honey, you didn't have to do that. I mean, really, you didn't have to do that.

Mrs. Clinton facing a myriad of criticism, but the former secretary of state says she does not need her husband standing up for her. She reportedly just told "PBS NewsHour", "My husband was very sweet today, but I don't need anybody to defend my record. I think my record speaks for itself."

She's referring to the former president's fierce defense of her assertion that the family was dead broke when they left the White House. The former president spoke yesterday with NBC's David Gregory.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT: It is factually true that we were several million dollars in debt. She's not out of touch and she advocated and worked as a senator for things that were good for ordinary people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Yes. Good, ordinary people.

But here's what Mrs. Clinton now says about that dead broke comment in her own defense.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: I shouldn't have said five or so words that I said, but, you know, my inartful use of those few words doesn't change who I am, what I've stood for my entire life, what I stand for today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So, is Bill doing Hillary any favors? And will the dead broke comment ever go away?

I want to bring in CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist Donna Brazile, and Ari Fleischer, former White House press secretary for George W. Bush.

Donna, you know, Mrs. Clinton said what she said about being dead broke and then she cleaned up and, then Bill Clinton cleaned up the clean up, and now, Hillary is cleaning up the clean up of the clean up. Without relitigating the meaning of what she initially said, are they handling this the right way?

DONNA BRAZILE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, of course, when sound bites get more played than substance, you have to keep trying to clean it up.

But you know what? Hillary Clinton's record in public office and of course, her tremendous record as an advocate for middle-class families, for children, for the working poor, that supersedes all of this. But you know what? We're in a so-called pre-election season in terms of 2016. So, whatever she says is going to get a lot of ink, and you know what? Maybe it will sell a couple of more books.

BERMAN: I'm not so sure it's even pre anymore. But we'll leave that aside for a second.

Ari, Donna talked about Mrs. Clinton's record, let's talk about her foreign policy record because she also weighed in on the president's decision not to leave residual forces in Iraq. Look at what she said here, she said, "He was deciding based on what the Bush administration had already determined because they were the ones who said troops have to be out by the end of 2011."

Now, that is a decision she was reportedly against as secretary of state. She reportedly suggested leaving troops there. Again, without relitigating who did what whom and when was the bad decision first made, or when -- who made the worst decision, was it Bush or Obama, let's talk about foreign policy, the president's foreign policy.