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CNN TONIGHT

World Cup Heartbreaker; Supreme Court Odd Couple; What are U.S. Chances vs. Germany?; Former Opponents Team up in Battle for Marriage Equality

Aired June 23, 2014 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.

Twenty-three million people can't be wrong. That's how many Americans were watching at one point during Sunday's USA/Portugal World Cup heartbreaker, the most watched soccer match in United States history.

What has happened to us, to America? What's behind our new obsession with the world's favorite game? I'm going to talk exclusively to the proud family of team USA captain Clint Dempsey.

Also, the super lawyers who give new meaning to the word -- the phrase, I should say, odd couple, they went head to head in one of the biggest Supreme Court battles in history. Now they're on the same side.

And of course we want to know what you think about all of this. Make sure you tweet us using #AskDon.

But, first, I want to give you my take on the World Cup and why so many are so interested. Yes, some people, the die-hard fans, love the game. But let's just be honest here. A whole lot of these bandwagon jumpers just love looking at the players, from women, the gay and straight men, to the questionable.

I can't tell you how many times I have heard, oh, my God, such and such is so hot. Dude, I want abs like so and so. Just before the show, a very respected political strategist called me and said, have you been paying attention to these soccer guys? My answer, I love you, but I'm about to go on the air. I can't talk. And, yes, I have. Her response, they're so hot. I can't stop watching. My answer, goodbye.

All last week and this weekend, all anyone has been talking about was the hotness of Ronaldo, Beckerman, Neymar, Zusi, and get this, wait for it, Meeks. That is the hot mug shot guy. As a culture, we are obsessed with good looks, hotness. And in my humble opinion, we are your pushing the limits on style or looks over substance.

There's no doubt that mug shot guy and the soccer players are easy on the eyes, but do mug shot guy's dreamy eyes and cheekbones trump his violent criminal past and present, his alleged street gang affiliation? Are Ronaldo's chiseled abs and rock-hard pecks more important than his athletic prowess? All right, who knows? But I did spend hours this weekend text-

messaging my 20-something nieces about mug shot guy. And like most of you, I did watch every single moment, every minute of the World Cup, cheering in a room full of strangers. And if you ask most of these new fans who team USA played, they would probably have no idea.

So, let's get started right with the World Cup right now. It's more than just a sport. It is a global phenomenon, culture, style and of course the language that every nation in the world speaks fluently, soccer.

Here's CNN's Nick Valencia.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Plaza Fiesta, the epicenter of Latino culture in Atlanta, and today ground zero for World Cup fever. Fans gather to watch the game of the day, Mexico vs. Croatia. And there's no question who this crowd wants to win.

(on camera): Who's going to win the World Cup?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mexico.

VALENCIA (voice-over): From the kids to the pets, everyone seems to have a dog in the fight.

(on camera): Princess is definitely more excited about this World Cup, hi.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I think.

VALENCIA: And while you might expect Mexican fans to be this die-hard about their club --

UNIDENTIFIED MALES AND FEMALES: USA, USA!

VALENCIA: -- the excitement for the 2014 World Cup spreads far beyond the traditional fans, especially here in the United States. A record 18.2 million viewers tuned in to watch the U.S. tie Portugal. The reason for all the eyeballs? The games are good. Some say it's a higher-than-average goal count.

For others, the good-looking players make watching easy on the eyes. And the heightened interest in this country could also have something to do with the U.S. fielding a team worth cheering for. The family of U.S. soccer captain Clint Dempsey not the only ones excited about the team's chances, but they certainly have an added incentive.

LANCE DEMPSEY, BROTHER OF CLINT DEMPSEY: This whole World Cup has been awesome because there's been a lot of upsets and surprises. So I think that they're just waiting to get an opportunity to surprise everyone and show that they're, you know, the underdogs, but that they're going to come out on top.

VALENCIA: Some worried about not coming out on top? American employers, who may worry about losing money because workers are watching the games played during business hours. Those still unconvinced of their undying love for the support still have plenty of time, three weeks to warm up to the frenzy. But you better hurry.

This just might turn out to be the best World Cup of all time.

Nick Valencia, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: All right, Nick, thank you very much.

Let's go live now to the Copacabana, at least Copacabana Beach in Rio de Janeiro, where's CNN's Fred Pleitgen is toughing it out on assignment tonight.

Fred, you lucky man. What's account atmosphere like in Rio now?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the atmosphere in Rio is amazing tonight,so, Don, one of the reasons for that being that the Brazilian team tonight made the jump into the next round. And so many of the people here who are obviously Brazilian are celebrating this day.

Brazil topped their group. They're going to be playing Chile next. But, in general, what you have here, Don, is you have many, many people from many different cultures coming together and cheering each other on. It really is a truly multicultural experience that you get here on the Copacabana these days, Don.

LEMON: So, you said Brazil won tonight. USA plays a little bit later on this week. Can the USA make it out of this group of death?

PLEITGEN: Well, I will tell you one thing, Don. This group of death was very, very tough, but the U.S. is in a great position to make it to the next round. Now, they face Germany, which is obviously a World Cup powerhouse. They won the World Cup three times. They have been in more finals than any other team in the world.

However, they have also shown weaknesses, for instance, against Ghana. And the U.S. has been playing a great tournament. Everybody who watched the game between the U.S. and Portugal says that the U.S. actually played better than Portugal. They were very unlucky to get that last goal.

If they win against Germany and if they draw, they're definitely in the next round. Even if they lose, because Portugal would have to score at least five goals against Ghana to then make it past the U.S. So, they're in a very, very good position at this point, Don.

LEMON: I wonder who Fred is rooting for, because, Fred, the German team is in great form.

You are German. How will the U.S.-German connection help this team? The U.S. coach is a former German star and some of the best players on the American team have a German background. PLEITGEN: Yes. Yes.

LEMON: Is that going to help?

PLEITGEN: Well, it certainly is something intriguing, because not only does America of course have Jurgen Klinsmann, who is a German coach, but also the current coach of the German team, Joachim Loew, was actually the apprentice of Jurgen Klinsmann. So, they know each other in and out.

They formed German football together, if you will. And, as you said, many of the players on the U.S. team actually have a German background. There's actually one of the players, Anthony Brooks, who went to the school that my kids go to. He lives right around the corner from where I live in Berlin. It really helps the American team.

It gives them a very European style of playing. It gives them also a style that Jurgen Klinsmann can work with very well. And certainly a lot of the players who play in Germany, who come from Germany have done very, very well for America.

But what Jurgen Klinsmann has also managed to do is, he's managed to instill an American spirit in that team. One of the things you can see in team USA when they play is that they never give up, even when they're down. They fight harder than ever before. And that's something that I can tell you has impressed not only American fans, but fans around the world, Don.

LEMON: Joachim Loew, how do you say that in American?

Who are you rooting for, Fred? Who are you pulling for?

PLEITGEN: It's tough for me. I spent so much time in America. You know I love America very much. But I am going to go with Germany. I have been wearing my German jersey.

I just -- there's certain things where I just have to go with my home country, and then I hope they do go all the way. But I also hope America advances to the next round. So, I'll tell you thing. America being in the tournament, getting far in the tournament is something that is good for soccer around the world.

LEMON: Nice working with you, Fred. Maybe there's a German version of CNN. Kidding. Thank you very much, Frederik Pleitgen.

As exhilarating as Clint Dempsey's go-ahead goal was for any fan of the U.S., imagine what it felt like for his family watching back at home in Texas.

Joining me now exclusively, Lance and Ashley Dempsey, team USA Clint Dempsey's brother and sister-in-law. We have spoken to them before.

When last we spoke to you, there was a baby crying in the background. Everybody was excited. They were at your home. There you are on camera. No baby. Lance, your brother Clint was the star of the show for the U.S. again last night. What sort of emotional roller coaster did you and your family go through watching the game yesterday?

L. DEMPSEY: Well, Don, that's exactly it.

It's an emotional roller coaster. And it's just excitement. And then with that will last-minute equalizer, it was just -- we were just defeated. But we're actually in a good spot. So, I should be more positive.

LEMON: Who is that taking their shirt off there?

(LAUGHTER)

L. DEMPSEY: I'm trying to work on my physique a little bit, but, yes, that was me, unfortunately.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: You're trying to get abs like your brother-in-law. Right?

L. DEMPSEY: Trying.

LEMON: Ashley, describe the moment though really when Portugal scored in the last seconds. Were you all devastated?

ASHLEY DEMPSEY, SISTER-IN-LAW OF CLINT DEMPSEY: Oh, yes.

I would say we went from a 10 to a one real quick. It was the excitement in the room. It was last minute. We thought we had it in the bag, everybody just kind of holding their breath, and then that goal. It was just silence and everyone just sick at their stomachs. You know, we just had fought so hard and were really hoping for a win. But, in the end, we were happy with a tie, so --

LEMON: So, Lance, your brother is really having a fantastic tournament, even with a broken nose.

L. DEMPSEY: Yes.

LEMON: I mean, how is he preparing for Thursday's game?

L. DEMPSEY: I don't know how he's preparing for it, but he just needs to keep doing exactly what he's doing, because he is just becoming an exciting player to watch and a hero for the U.S. fans all around the country.

LEMON: That has to be special. How do you -- have you spoken to him?

L. DEMPSEY: Text messages. I know that he's busy, and maybe I'm a little superstitious on messing with success.

LEMON: Yes.

Can he score against the Germans? L. DEMPSEY: Yes, he's -- he's a -- he's done it before in games

against Germany. So -- and he's got the -- he's got the feel for goal, and I think he's addicted to scoring. And I think he's just going to keep it going.

LEMON: All right. Well, we hope so.

Ashley, I have to ask you this. You had a big group that joined you last time, including Clint's grandparents. Are you entertaining again this Thursday? And am I invited?

A. DEMPSEY: Of course you are, yes, the more the merrier. I think the more we have, the better our chances are of winning. We all need to be there rooting them on. And it's exciting having everyone there. If you can't be in Brazil, what's better than having all your family together there celebrating ready for this next win? Because we're going to win. We're excited.

L. DEMPSEY: Don't let me taking my shirt off scare you.

(CROSSTALK)

A. DEMPSEY: I know. Don't be scared of us -- of the shirts coming off.

LEMON: So, Ashley, we talked about people watching. A lot of ladies, a lot of people are watching because the guys are easy on the eyes. What do you make of that, people are tuning in because of the good looks of the guys?

A. DEMPSEY: I think if it brings more attention to the sport, then, if that's what it takes, then, you know, hey, I'm a hairdresser. So I see ladies all the time. So that's one way to get them tuning into the game. So --

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Well, Lance --

A. DEMPSEY: -- I think it's exciting.

LEMON: -- good luck with your abs. Ashley, good luck with entertaining next time. Thank you very much. And we'd love to have you back on. OK? Appreciate it.

A. DEMPSEY: All right. Thank you so much.

LEMON: And congratulations. Congratulations.

L. DEMPSEY: Thank you.

A. DEMPSEY: Thank you.

LEMON: When we come back, stars on and off the field,the trends that are feeding our World Cup obsession. Plus, two super lawyers on opposite sides of the biggest Supreme Court

battle ever -- battles with an S, plural -- why this odd couple is teaming up now. And we want to know what you think about all of this. Make sure you tweet us using #AskDon.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Every four years, World Cup mania runs ramp rampant all the around the globe. And this year, more Americans than ever are joining the party, and specifically more women. So, why is that? Is it the early success of the U.S. team, or could it be the players themselves?

Well, joining me now via Skype, Carli Lloyd, a midfielder on the USA women's soccer team. Eva Chen is editor in chief of "Lucky" magazine, and our very own Rachel Nichols, host of "UNGUARDED WITH RACHEL NICHOLS." It runs Friday nights here at 10:30, right, Rachel?

RACHEL NICHOLS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely.

LEMON: And 10:30 Eastern time.

Hey, good to see all of you.

Carli, I'm going to start with you. You're an incredibly successful footballer for the national team. Why do you think that the nation has finally caught World Cup fever, it appears, finally?

CARLI LLOYD, WOMEN'S U.S. SOCCER PLAYER: You know, I think a lot of reasons.

I think, for one, MLS has done really well. I think, number two, streaming games. We have had games on FOX Sports 1, ESPN, so everybody's able to tune in and watch the games. So, I think that's a big, big reason. But it's great. I'm loving it. I wish it could go on every year.

LEMON: Yes, it's very cool. I don't know if it would have the -- if it went on every year, I don't know if it would have the same appeal.

But, Rachel, how do the interest levels now compare to other sports? It's taking off in -- it's taken off in a way that it has never done before. Why now?

NICHOLS: Yes, it's absolutely amazing.

Look, this is America. American football still rules. Ratings for the NFL and college football are still higher, but other than that, other than American football, Sunday night's game was the most viewed sporting event ever on ESPN. And then you add in the Univision audience, which was nearly seven million for Sunday night's game, and the confluence of those forces created this great TV moment.

Look, it helps that it was on Sunday night, when a lot of people are at home watching TV. And it helps that basically there's not a lot of sports going on, on TV right now. But it's also the kind of thing where, as you point out, Don, it's only every four years. People are dipping in, they're interested. And the communal spirit is so great.

We see these great watch parties, right, in New York and Chicago and Kansas City and all over the country. And that extends to people's living rooms as well. You just showed the Dempseys' living room. People can watch it with their neighbors; they can watch it with their families. You could call your sister in California if you live in New York and you're both rooting for the same team, which doesn't happen with pro sports, or you and your neighbor who maybe went to different college and root for different college teams. You're all rooting for team USA.

(CROSSTALK)

NICHOLS: That makes a big difference.

LEMON: It does.

But -- and, also, Rachel, as I was describing to people when we were having -- when we were talking about this in our meeting this morning, is that it feels special or specialer -- I know that's not a word -- but it feels more special.

And if you look at the expanse of the stadium, the wide shots, the crowd cheers, I mean, it does feel special. And it's beautiful and it's very, very colorful, and not to mention -- you know, I know this is not your expertise. You don't want to talk -- people love looking at the guys.

NICHOLS: Yes, Don, I guess so. You know, it's a little tough for me to swallow that argument, because I watch athletes in all sports who are great shape.

ESPN is about to put out its annual body issue, which shows athletes of all different kinds and genders and beautiful women, beautiful men who play sports. That's one of the great things about athletics, is it puts you in great shape. It's why we push physical education in this country.

LEMON: Right.

NICHOLS: I think, personally, that people are interested in the games. I think it's fun. I think it's exciting. I think people get swept up on it.

And let's not forget soccer is the greatest participation sport for kids in this country.

LEMON: Yes.

NICHOLS: And you're now seeing kids who have grown up on the game, all those orange slices that your mom brought, right, after you were on the soccer field, and as youth -- as kids grow up and we see the youth numbers, the viewership rise as well, I think that's adding to it as well.

LEMON: No, I think you're right. I didn't mean to have you comment that -- the part about the guys.

But I meant it just -- the way it looks, it's beautiful to look at. It's very colorful. And, as I said, the expanse of the stadium, it feels very international for some reason -- and because it is. And so I think that's part of it as well.

Eva, so let's dig in more and talk to you about the sex appeal at the World Cup. I mean, I have a feeling that a lot of women and men out there are watching because of the hot factor. What do you think?

(CROSSTALK)

EVA CHEN, EDITOR IN CHIEF, "LUCKY": I will go there. I will be the one to say it.

I think it helps that the men are incredibly attractive. You have these guys in clingy jerseys. They might be a little dewy from running an entire stadium length. And they're ripping their shirts off every moment they get. I will go there. I will say it.

I do think the beauty and athleticism, of course, the sheer talent in the stadium as well, is hugely important. But it's a beautiful sport to watch. And it's actually a very elegant sport as well. It combines power, athleticism, endurance, and, yes, guys with their torsos exposed with great looks. So it kind of has everything.

LEMON: I'm glad you went there, because, Eva, maybe the best example of that bravado off the field is Cristiano Ronaldo on the cover of "Span Vogue" naked with his fiancee, not to mention all the underwear ads, and is one reason why women are watching now in greater numbers. Can we -- we can't deny that, can we?

CHEN: I think that, when you see that cover, it's just let me have a moment of silence to appreciate the sheer beauty of his form. Obviously, he's a crazy talented guy. You brought up the point earlier, his talent, his looks, which is better? I think they're equally paramount.

And that's part of his success. It's the David Beckham effect. Right? Like, David Beckham had the talent, has the talent, and also is not bad, easy on the eyes. So, if you're the whole package, like so many of these players are, and I think they're also savvy as well in terms of endorsements and just being out there promoting themselves on social media -- so it's a whole new age.

And I think the beauty of these men, which, again, I will be the one to say it, I don't think it's any different from, say, Miss USA or Victoria's Secret. And, of course, those are very different because sports, it's a very specific talent. But, you know, at the same time, it's like -- it's not that different I think.

LEMON: His abs aren't that great. Mine look like that in my dreams, in my dreams.

CHEN: Well, obviously. LEMON: Rachel, David Beckham really did pave the way, though, by joining the L.A. Galaxy team. Do you think that this newfound soccer obsession, is it lasting or is it a passing fad?

NICHOLS: Do I think the MLS, Major League Soccer, in the United States is going to pick up more viewers after this World Cup? Absolutely. I don't think there's any question that people who maybe before who said, ah, I'm not going to watch soccer, suddenly might see a game and get into a little more. They're more familiar with the game and strategies after watching this World Cup.

I don't think you're going to see this huge jump in soccer viewership during the season. I do think that, once it's every year -- the American league still hasn't caught up to, say, the European league in terms of the level of skill and talent. I'm not sure it's going to have a huge, huge ripple effect.

But will it have a little pebble on the water? Absolutely. No question. It helps generally -- a rising tide helps all boats.

LEMON: Yes.

Carli, we are going to get you in a little bit as well.

So, stick with me, everybody, because, when we come right back, the World Cup goes viral. Is it a smash hit online as well? Yes, it is.

Carli, I want to talk to you about that when we come right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Americans have never been as obsessed with the World Cup as they are now. And social media could have a lot to do with that.

I'm back now with Carli Lloyd, Eva Chen and our very own Rachel Nichols.

Rachel, I want you to take a look at Twitter, the Twitter traffic during the Portugal-USA match. Twitter literally blew up with each goal. So why is this World Cup different than any of the other World Cups? Why is Twitter going crazy over it? Or maybe it's because of Twitter. I don't know.

NICHOLS: Yes, I think they feed into each other. We certainly have more people on Twitter than we have ever had before. It's growing every year.

And, again, we were talking before about that communal experience. Right? So, it's a great way to sort of share with your friends who might not be around where you are, share with other people, feel like you're all watching it together.

And, again, because everybody in the country is basically rooting for the same team, it just makes that communal feeling more exponential. You might be watching an NFL game and, sure, you're on Twitter sort of following along with your Chicago Bears tweets, but there's a lot of people on your feed who are maybe rooting for the New York Giants and tweeting about them.

Well, if everyone on your Twitter feed is celebrating the same goal at the same time, it certainly adds to the experience.

LEMON: Hey, Carli, I want to ask you this.

We keep trying to figure. It's like, we want to figure out a reason, everybody, why is this, why is that? Maybe it's just a natural progression of the sports. What do you think? Of the sport.

LLOYD: Yes.

I mean, honestly, there's no denying the fact that there are some attractive men players, as well as female players. But I think you, know, as far as the U.S. women's national team, we prided ourselves over the years of creating kind of a never-say-die attitude, the will, determination.

So I think the dramatic games that we have -- and, obviously, in the men's World Cup, there's been some dramatic games, there's been some upsets. And I think that's more of what the fans like to see. The U.S. men's game the other night, unbelievable match. And, you know, that's what fans are kind of looking for, is those dramatic games.

When we have had a dramatic game in the 2011 World Cup with Abby scoring in that late -- late, end of the game in stoppage time. So I think that's what fans want to see. It's tough because when there's no score on the board, if it's 0-0, the fans kind of lose interest. But when it's dramatic and there's excitement and there's things going on, I think that's when we really gravitate to it.

LEMON: Hey, Carli, is there any -- is there any professional jealousy? Because the women's team for years have been better than the men's team in winning, had more winning seasons than the men's team. And now the men are getting all of this attention now. Is there -- what do you make of that?

LLOYD: Well, I think it comes in strides, right?

Obviously, their World Cup is before ours. And they have done well. They did well last World Cup. They're doing well this World Cup. So, I think it's a little hard to compare the two. You know, competing on the men's side of things, there's a lot of countries that are really, really doing as well and really strong.

And you have the women's side, who I think the U.S. has always been on top for -- for a good decade now. But I think that a lot of teams are catching up. So, it's making it really hard for us to stay out top. But that's what we want. We want teams catching us and want the world of soccer gravitating toward's women sports.

LEMON: Yesterday's game, Rachel, most watched soccer game in U.S. history. The German game could be even bigger. Do you think the U.S. can win? I hope you say yes.

NICHOLS: They absolutely could win. They also could draw, which is really all they need to do. I mean, we're conditioned in the United States not to think of ties as good things in all of our other sports leagues.

Think about how far we go to get away from a tie, right, overtime or a shoot-out in hockey or all kinds of stuff. But, actually, in this realm, going to a draw is just fine. Germany and the U.S. would both advance with a draw. And there's certainly not only a theory that if everything is clean and above board, that both teams might just be playing a little bit more defensively, so you wouldn't see as much scoring.

You might end up in a tie. There's also of course all these rumors out there right now. You mentioned the fact that the U.S. coach used to be the coach of the German program. There's a lot of German- Americans on team. So, everyone loves to break out the conspiracy theories and think that maybe the German coach and the U.S. coach are going to chat and decide that maybe they should just go to a draw.

Nobody thinks that that will actually happen in this case. I think Jurgen Klinsmann has proven himself above reproach.

But the reason why it's coming up so much, Don, if you hear about it in the next couple days, it's because it has happened in the past with Germany. Back then, it was West Germany. It was 1982. But everyone involved has pretty much acknowledged at this point that they and Austria somewhat colluded to get themselves both into the next round.

So you're going to hear a lot about that over the next couple days, as well. It's a good side story. And that's what we're talking about here. It gets people interested.

LEMON: There's nothing that you don't know the about sports. You always amaze me.

Eva, let's, you know -- let's talk for people who are not so sportsy. Let's talk about the trends that we're seeing on the field. Plenty of wild hairstyles. What else? I'm noticing tattoos are probably as big if not bigger than the NBA.

CHEN: Yes. Exactly. I mean, I think we're going to see a lot of men's grooming tips out of this and a lot of trends coming out of it. Lots of beards, lots of hairstyles. The styles have been extreme. You know, obviously you have Ronaldo's zig-zag in his hair which purportedly he did in homage of a young boy who was...

LEMON: I think it's great if he did that. But he's been doing that for years. Lots of people have been getting parts cut into their hair for years. Especially African-American who's don't have longer straighter hair. We cut parts on our hair. Doing that for years. That's not a new thing.

CHEN: It's a very interesting thing, no matter what. You know, and if it is true, the story that he did it to kind of raise awareness and to help this young boy, how amazing is that?

LEMON: That would be great. CHEN: In addition to his abs of steel, also a heart of gold. Not

bad. Not bad.

LEMON: Dreadlocks, as well.

CHEN: Dreadlocks, Kyle Beckerman. I mean, I think he is one of the coolest guys, you know, go Team USA. And I think that also he's just like -- he has his own unique style which we love. And yes, I do not mind looking at that picture.

And then he also is rocking another trend, the beards. I mean, really I think razor sales, I hate to say it, sorry razor companies. They might go down, because everyone is rocking scruff at the World Cup.

I mean, funny. A few of my girlfriends e-mailed me this link. It's like the hot bearded men at the World Cup. And I'm like, that's great. But you know, they're also very talented, you know, and et cetera, et cetera. But you know what? Objectification, maybe the ladies get to do it a little bit, too.

LEMON: We know they're also very talented. But also, you should see my Twitter feed now from woman who are saying can't talk about the hot factor in World Cup without flashing up a picture of this hottie, Don Lemon. And that's all. Who is it? Tim Howard, right?

LLOYD: Yes.

LEMON: With the beard.

LLOYD: He was up there in her little six box of hair. He was up there with the big beard.

LEMON: So he's got the beard, abs and he's got the tats, as well.

LLOYD: Yes, and the talent and the amazing, amazing saves.

LEMON: Wouldn't it be great, though, if a six-pack became the thing, the trend for everybody? That would be great. I know pulled out my T-25 yesterday morning and did a little work.

LLOYD: I think everyone's going to be hitting the gym hard after -- after the World Cup.

LEMON: OK, so give me some predictions -- Carli.

LLOYD: You know, I'm going to go with the U.S. I believe that we will win. I think it's going to be a great game. It's going to be down to the wire. Down to probably stoppage time. I'm going go with them coming on top.

LEMON: Eva?

CHEN: I have to say USA. I mean, the match yesterday was just next level. The anticipation, the craziness like fingers crossed.

LEMON: And Rachel. NICHOLS: I think they're going to advance, whether it's a win, lose

or draw because here's the thing. They could lose this match and still advance. That's really all we need to care of about. American fans want to see their team into the next round. And there's a really good chance they could get there. It's going to be great.

LEMON: I'm going to have to admit. I'm a bandwagon jumper. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. So the screaming in, you know, a place yesterday, a club, "USA, USA," along with everybody else.

So go USA. I think it's unanimous. Thank you, guys. Great conversation. I appreciate all of you.

Coming up, talk about your odd couples. Two super lawyers, one a Republican, one a Democrat. They fought all the way to the Supreme Court on Bush v Gore. Now the new legal battle that's got them on the same side.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: More Americans than ever before support marriage equality. A Gallup poll last month found a record 55 percent say same-sex marriages should be legal.

And in what may be the clearest sign the tide is turning, two super lawyers who were on opposite sides of one of the biggest Supreme Court battles in history are teaming up in the fight for marriage equality. Joe Johns has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Ted Olson and David Boies, two true gladiators in the greatest legal battles of our age. But the ultimate odd couple, on opposing sides in one of the most polarizing legal and political confrontations of this generation, the Supreme Court battle for the White House in 2000. Boies for Al Gore, and Olson for George W. Bush, who would eventually become president in one of the closest elections in American history.

It is an unlikely battle that brings these legal titans together. Same-sex marriage. Both attorneys spoke to CNN's Gloria Borger in an exclusive interview.

TED OLSON, FORMER SOLICITOR GENERAL: I think we both came to the conclusion that we could probably be unbeatable if we were on the same side. But if we were on the opposite side, one of us would lose.

JOHNS: That conclusion led them to challenge California's Proposition 8, a law passed by voters banning same-sex marriage, a case Olson and Boies destroyed.

CHIEF JUSTICE JOHN ROBERTS, SUPREME COURT: Same-sex couples have every other right. It's just about the label.

OLSON: The label marriage means something. JOHNS: Citing a technicality, the Supreme Court ruled in favor of

Olson and Boies and cleared the aisle for some long-awaited wedding ceremonies in California.

DAVID BOIES, ATTORNEY: Each of us came to grips in a nonintellectual, non-academic way, a real-world, real-person way, about how damaging this kind of discrimination is.

JOHNS: While Olson and Boies admit their legal work has helped move same-sex marriage closer to the goal of nationwide acceptance, their critics say this issue should be decided by the people, not the courts.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is no moral or constitutional authority for federal judges to declare marriage to be anything other than between a man and a woman.

JOHNS (on camera): The Boies and Olson strategy in the courts has also created controversy within the ranks. Some supporters of marriage equality fear that trying to move too far to fast will create legal setbacks, especially at a time when polls show a sizable number of Americans are still as opposed to the idea.

Joe Johns, CNN at the Supreme Court.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Joe Johns, thank you very much. Joining me now, the co- authors of "Redeeming the Dream: The Case for Marriage Equality," Ted Olson and David Boies.

When most people think of Boies and Olson, they think of Bush v. Gore, hanging chads and the most divisive election in memory. That was back in 2000. How did you two end up being friends?

OLSON: The fact is that we worked against one another in that case, but that was 14 years ago. Since then, we've realized that we have a great deal in common. Although we're at opposite ends of the political spectrum, we believe a lot in the same things. And both David -- David and me and our wives have enjoyed socializing together, riding bicycles in Europe.

And then when this opportunity came along to challenge Proposition 8, we thought that, if we joined forces -- our respective law firms and the two of us -- we could make a compelling case to the American people that discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, denying the rights to the gay and lesbian citizens that the rest of us have to marry, we could be successful.

LEMON: It's very -- I find it very interesting that many people see this as a political issue, a sort of right versus left, conservative versus liberal issue, when for many people, when you think who are not partisan, it's just about equal and civil rights. How can you deny someone the same rights as an American that you have. Is it that simple? BOIES: I think it is. I think it is that simple. This is a question

of constitution rights. Fundamental rights. The Supreme Court has held repeatedly that marriage is one of the most fundamental rights that any of us can have.

And the question is, can you deprive somebody of that fundamental right because of their sexual orientation? And that's not a question to be decided at the ballot box. That's a question to be decided in the courts, just as every constitutional question is.

The same people who are objecting now to marriage equality based on sexual orientation objected to marriage equality based on interracial marriage. The same arguments were used 20, 30 years ago against interracial marriage that is now being used against same-sex marriage.

LEMON: Ted, how -- being a conservative, I imagine it was maybe -- I don't know. Maybe it was tougher for David than it was for you, because people may see this as a betrayal, that you're somehow betraying your conservatism by -- by fighting for same-sex marriage when you say -- I think your quote is, is that family is a conservative issue. Discrimination is not a conservative issue. Why are conservatives fighting for people not being able to get married?

OLSON: Exactly. Marriage is a conservative value. The coming together of two individuals who love one another, who want to form an abiding, enduring relationship, to become a part of a community, to raise a family, to become a part of our society, and enjoy equal rights.

LEMON: But Ted, I'm going to play -- I'm going to devil's advocate here, because marriage is between one man and one woman. And it's not Adam and Steve. It's Adam and Eve.

OLSON: Well, as David will say, that's a bumper sticker, but I'll let David say that. That's when people say, "I get to define marriage as between a man and a woman." And when David talked about interracial marriage a short while ago and just a moment ago in this conversation, it's not marriage between persons of the opposite sex. It's marriage between people who love one another.

LEMON: OK. Ted, David, stay with me. We're going to come right back. I want to talk about the race for the White House and find out if you still agree when it comes to the leading Republicans and leading Democrats. Your thoughts on politics coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Ted Olson, David Boies have joined forces on the battle for marriage equality, but do they still have their differences when it comes to the other big stories of the day? Back with me now, Ted Olson and David Boies.

First, are you two gripped by the World Cup like the rest of the nation is?

BOIES: Probably not so much. OLSON: Absolutely. It's a fascinating thing. We haven't had time to

watch every single one of these games. But to see people come together and to see the people that -- the cheering that's going on and the excitement, it's contagious.

LEMON: I know nothing about soccer and the World Cup. I just want to be part of it, so I go to as many viewing parties as I can. So I think you're absolutely right on that.

Let's talk about Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden, both making statements about their wealth or Joe Biden's, you know, lack thereof. He says he's not wealthy.

This week in an interview with "The Guardian" newspaper, Hillary Clinton said that she and her husband pay full income taxes unlike a lot of people who are truly well off. Not to be outdone, of course, Joe Biden told a forum spotlighting working families that he has no stocks, no bonds and no savings account. What are your reactions on that squaring off for the nomination of 2016?

OLSON: David, you talk about the Democrats.

BOIES: I'll talk about the Democrats.

I think it's a sideshow. I think this is a media-created issue. I think that both Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden have made their lives devoted to working-class issues. Trying to get better education, better health care, more employment, balanced budget, the kinds of things that benefit the middle class. And I think that this issue as to who has less money or who pays more taxes is a media issue, not something between the two of them.

LEMON: Ted, do you agree with him? He sounds like he's saying they're the greatest.

OLSON: Well, look, they're both fine individuals who serve our country extremely well. I have great respect for Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden.

I do agree with David. This is a sideshow. It has very little to do with how someone can govern and the choices and the policy judgments that will be made. I don't know how we got into that particular battle. And I think the one mistake that they both made was getting into it. They should have just moved on.

LEMON: Ted, can we talk a little bit more about the Republican Party? It has been said that the Republican Party is not widening the tent but limiting the tent when it comes to gay people, when it comes to Hispanics, when it comes to many minorities, when it comes to women, and on and on. Do you think that that is true? Can the Republican Party survive if it continues on the road that it's on?

OLSON: Well, the Republican Party cannot survive if it's a narrow party. And it must reach out to the groups that you mentioned. I believe that it will. And it is changing. I've seen changes just during the time that David and I have been together in five years, doing our best to talk about marriage equality and to talk about equality for our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters.

We're not doing this alone by any stretch of the imagination, but the fact that we were on opposite sides in Bush versus Gore gave people an opportunity to say, "What are you doing and why are you doing it?" Gave us a chance to talk about that.

I think that the Republican Party is moving in the right direction on all of these things, and I do agree with the thrust of your question. It certainly needs to.

LEMON: David, I know education -- if you want, you can respond to that. Would you like to move on and talk about education?

BOIES: We can move on.

LEMON: OK, education is important to you. How does the education system, particularly the cost of college in the United States need to be reformed? Because a big issue is equality, not only in income but marriage equality for liberals.

BOIES: Exactly right. I think education is a basic civil right. And we've got to recognize that people need to be entitled to an education in this country, no matter what the income of their parents may be. And no matter what part of the country they may live in.

We don't decide whether we're going to send a fire truck or a police car to a neighborhood depending on how much money the people in that neighborhood make. But that's the way our educational system works.

We've also got to reform the structure of education. We've spent a lot of money in this country, and we don't get enough out of it. We've had one of the highest expenditures per pupil of any place in the world, but our actual educational output ranks very low.

We've got to reform the structure. We've got to get more support for charter schools. We've got to give people more of an opportunity to equally participate in the educational system. If we don't, that's not only unfair to our citizens, but it's terrible for the future of this country.

LEMON: David, I want to ask you about something else that's in the news. Abu Khattala, who is a suspect, who's now in custody for the Benghazi attacks, the U.S. attorney general says he's going to be tried in a U.S. court rather than a military court. Do you think that's the correct place for him to be tried?

BOIES: I don't really know enough about it. My instinct is that it was a -- not a civil -- normal civilian criminal operation but a military operation. But I don't know enough about it. The idea of trying terrorists in our normal court system is not one that I have generally thought was a sensible idea.

OLSON: Well, on that, I think David makes a very good point. It's very difficult to take someone off -- out of foreign soil where terrorism is going on and then expect the civil justice -- I mean, the criminal justice system to work. How do you get witnesses? Do you subpoena people that were in

Benghazi? Do you take military people off the field to have them testify? It's a very, very complicated subject. And that's why there have been military tribunals for as long as this country has existed to deal with circumstances like that.

Now, I'm not prejudging what the attorney general or the president have decided to do with this particular individual. Because like David, I don't know the facts, and it's not appropriate for us to speculate.

LEMON: Ted Olson, David Boies, thank you very much. I appreciate you coming on CNN.

BOIES: Thank you very much.

LEMON: Good luck with the book. All right?

OLSON: Thank you.

BOIES: Thank you.

LEMON: Coming up this week's CNN Hero takes families out to the ball game and helps them change their lives.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: For many people, a baseball game is a family tradition, but for those on the autistic spectrum, one in 68 American children, it can lead to a public meltdown. When this week's CNN Hero realized that fear leads many families to isolate themselves, she took action, helping them enjoy their lives out in the world, including America's favorite past-time.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Going to new experiences with my son is a gamble. You are on edge all the time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Help.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just breathe.

When he's having a meltdown on the floor and the whole entire store is looking at you like you're a bad mom, you just want to go and crawl under a rock. It's challenging.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I stay in sometimes because it's easier for him to be around all of his toys. I'm afraid.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As a developmental pediatrician, I do a lot of diagnosing of autism. When I heard that my families were afraid to go out, I felt like I needed to find a way to help them.

Every-day experiences like going to a baseball game can be a challenge for kids with autism. Music, lights, the noise -- there's a lot of unexpected sensory things happening.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How are you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good, how are you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you ready to go?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I worked with the Phillies to train all 3,000 people that work at the ball park. Autism is a social disability. So it needs to be addressed in the community.

We prepare the families with a storybook of experiences that may happen at the park. And then we provide supportive game experiences sort of like a safety net.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you start taking steps outside of your door, your world gets bigger and bigger.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's having fun. One success means more success.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's about more than a game. It's about opportunity.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hopefully, there will be zoos in our future and aquariums. The world is our oyster.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Very nice. That's it for us tonight. I'm Don Lemon. Thank you for watching. See you back here tomorrow night. "AC 360" starts right now.