Return to Transcripts main page

CNN TONIGHT

Republican House Majority Leader Loses Primary; Radical Change for the GOP?

Aired June 10, 2014 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: The breaking news is political. This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon, breaking news.

And this something a lot of people never saw coming. In a stunning upset, Eric Cantor has lost to his Tea Party in the Virginia primary, the number two Republican in the House, the man much of the GOP regards as the most conservative member of the House leadership, the man who was thought to be the next in line to be speaker, defeated by someone named Dave Brat, an economics professor at Randolph-Macon College just outside side of Richmond.

And, tonight, CNN's best political mind are here to break it all down for us and tell us -- to tell us what it means to the Republican Party and what it says about midterms that are upcoming.

Well, tonight, we want to know what you think as well. So, make sure you tweet us, be a part of this conversation at #AskDon. Use #AskDon.

So let's get right to the breaking news, Eric Cantor's stunning defeat tonight in Virginia, the number two Republican in the House losing to Dave Brat.

Joining me now is CNN's all-star political team. Dana Bash is our chief congressional correspondent. Mark Preston is CNN's political director, Brian Stelter, senior media correspondent and host of "Reliable Sources." And Gloria Borger is CNN's chief political analyst, and also Dana Bash.

Everyone is here.

Dana, oh, my gosh. Can you -- can we say holy you-know-what on television?

(LAUGHTER)

DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I asked that you before we went on. And you said no.

LEMON: You can.

BASH: So, I'm not going to say that. But I think our viewers get the point. I -- I -- you can see I'm speechless. It's not often that I'm

speechless. And I am not alone in this town. The e-mails, tweets, texts from people at the highest levels, people close to Eric Cantor, people on the rank and file of the Republican Party, particularly in the House, completely shocked.

Just to give you a sense of how little anybody expected this, Eric Cantor's own staff was very sure that they were going to be fine, saying that this is just a press story, that this is just ginned up by people who want to make the Tea Party still have a life.

Well, guess what? They have a life, a big life. And all of those stories that we have all done through the primary season so far, talking about the fact that the Tea Party may be losing life because they haven't been able to beat an incumbent, that's over.

It's a wrap for that, because they have gotten the biggest head that they could possibly get at this point. And that is the number two Republican in the House.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: And isn't -- isn't it the first rule of politics, especially when you're running, to never underestimate your opponent, Mark Preston?

And before you answer that, let me just show you what some of the early polls show, that Cantor had this pretty much locked up. A poll within the Cantor camp that -- shared with "The Washington Post" had Cantor at 62 percent to 28 percent.

How could that poll have been so wrong, Mark Preston?

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICAL EDITOR: Well, it's interesting. I have been on the phone all night just talking to political operatives here in Washington and in Virginia.

And really they are laying the blame not only at Eric Cantor, but at his political consultants. They feel like they have done him wrong. But, to your point, Eric Cantor wasn't tending to business back home. And as one operative just said to me a short time ago, it is very difficult to be in the leadership, at the same time representing your district.

And I think that's kind of what we saw with Eric Cantor. He was trying to have it both ways. It was only just a couple years ago, Don, that Eric Cantor was seen as the voice, so to speak, for the Tea Party within the leadership. The past couple of years, he seemed to have been moderating his views a little bit.

And as someone said to me tonight, you can't have it both ways. Live by the sword, die by the sword. Tonight, Eric Cantor died by the sword.

LEMON: Gloria Borger, I know you're raring to get in here, but first I want you to listen to what Eric Cantor had to say tonight after his loss, and then we will talk.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ERIC CANTOR (R-VA), HOUSE MAJORITY LEADER: Sure. But I believe in this country. I believe there's opportunity around the next corner for all of us.

So I look forward to continuing to fight with all of you for the things that we believe in, for the conservative cause, because those solutions of ours are the answer to the problems that so many people are facing today.

Thank you all very, very much.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Gloria, what's your reaction? What did he do wrong?

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, there are lots of things he did wrong, first, in talking to Republicans tonight, who say to me, to a person, that this is a repudiation of Eric Cantor personally, that he failed politics 101, which is to keep in touch with your district.

They point out that Lindsey Graham in South Carolina won a primary tonight with 60 percent of the vote. And one Republican said to me -- I'm going to quote it here -- "Measuring the drapes is never a good strategy," which means that he was next in line to become speaker, was seen as very ambitious, somebody who spent a lot of time fund-raising for the Republican Party.

And it's one of the perils of leadership, particularly since the Republican leadership is unpopular with the base of the Republican Party.

LEMON: Brian, conservative media, can the opponent, can Dave Brat thank them for this victory?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: I think that has something to do with it.

It was under the radar. That's why so many reporters, so many analysts were shocked tonight. But Laura Ingraham, for example, to name one talk radio host, was very supportive of Brat, even held a rally for him in Virginia this time last week.

The top of her Web site today said, "Vote Dave Brat today." Other radio hosts also supported him. Ann Coulter supported him. And I think they are going to be getting credit in the days to come. Tonight on FOX News, Megyn Kelly called Ingraham instrumental to this victory.

LEMON: Dana, did they underestimate the power of the supporters here? BASH: I think they underestimated the power of the supporters, but

maybe they overestimated the power of the kind of Republican that would go out and vote for Eric Cantor in a primary that people aren't used to being a part of in his district.

Primaries aren't very common in his district. I know it sounds like we are getting into the weeds here, but weeds matter in grassroots politics, particularly on this huge story. And I talked -- I described a little bit perhaps how overconfident the Cantor people were.

That clearly translated into what you got to do on Election Day, which is get your voters out. And they didn't -- clearly didn't do that enough. And that is absolutely critical.

Another just anecdote I will tell you is that I'm told that the Chamber of Commerce, which is a big establishment group, so to speak, that has gone in to help a lot of incumbents across the country this year with a lot of money, put up ads and so forth, they went to the Cantor people not too long and said, do you need us? And they were waved off by the Cantor people. They simply didn't see this coming, like most people didn't.

LEMON: Arrogance?

(CROSSTALK)

BORGER: Well, that's because the Cantor people had $5 million and Brat had what, $200,000 or $300,000?

BASH: Three hundred thousand.

BORGER: Right.

And I think one of the other mistakes they made is that they ran negative ads against someone that lots of people had never heard of.

LEMON: By putting his name in those negative ads, they made him popular.

(CROSSTALK)

BORGER: Until those ads appeared. And so there were issues. There were issues like immigration. There were issues like the government shutdown.

Cantor was a member of the leadership who wanted to end the government shutdown, which was popular with the conservative base of the Republican Party. So there were issues, and then there was, you know, a little political malpractice perhaps going.

STELTER: Well, and that's one of the storylines tonight, about money.

Usually, money wins races. A study came out in April said 91 percent of the time, the better-financed candidate wins. But then there is the other 9 percent. (CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Mark Preston, what do we know about Brat and about the challenger he will face?

PRESTON: Well, here is the situation

We don't know very much about him. I think at the top was the longest biography that you could give on a candidate we know nothing about, necessarily. He is a college professor. He is going to win in November. Democrats were hoping that Eric Cantor would run as a write-in candidate, would split the vote, and then they could potentially pick up the seat. That's not going to happen.

This is a very Republican seat. But let's take a step back and look at really the national implications about this. We're talking about the majority of leader of the House of Representatives being taken out, which means there's going to be a void now in the House leadership, which means you have an emboldened Tea Party.

Will we see a Tea Party candidate within the Republican Conference try to run? And what does that mean for any kind of cooperation moving forward in the final two years of President Obama's term?

So there is lot of national implications. And, quite frankly, Don, we talk about the implications for Republicans and how they will pushed to the right. There are also Democrats that are running in the Senate in a lot of red states right now. They have got to be concerned that there is potentially a Tea Party base, a conservative base that will be energized by this, and they could potentially help defeat those Democrats.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: All right, everyone, hold on, hold on.

When we come right back, the big position that may be behind Eric Cantor's stunning defeat. Is it all about immigration? Our political team goes toe to toe on that.

And we want to know what you think about all of this. Make sure you tweet us using #AskDon.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Breaking news, Eric Cantor, a stunning defeat in his primary.

And with the Cantor camp left shaking their heads tonight over his stunning loss, the big question is, how did this all happen? Could it all have come down to immigration?

Joining me now via Skype is Larry Sabato. He's the director of the Center for Politics at University of Virginia. Also, Ben Ferguson is CNN's political commentator and host of "The Ben Ferguson Show," Russell Berman, congressional reporter for TheHill.com. And our very own Jeffrey Toobin is our CNN senior analyst, and Leslie Sanchez, Republican strategist and author of "Los Republicanos: Why Hispanics and Republicans Need Each Other."

Unbelievable. Came as a shock to just about everyone.

First, Ben Ferguson, did anyone predict this loss?

BEN FERGUSON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, I don't think anyone definitely predicted it, but there was indications this was very possible in the last several weeks.

When you saw Ralph Hall lose in a seat in Texas, he was the oldest sitting member of Congress. He didn't have a bad vote in his district that people were going to reprimand him on. They just didn't think he was leading enough in Congress. And he lost to somebody a lot of people said was a no-name. And that's when a lot of people were like, holy cow. If that guy can lose, after 30-plus years in Congress, Eric Cantor could certainly be a possibility of a loss.

And I think he took his seat for granted. He did not do what he needed to do in his district. He cared too much about being a GOP establishment Republican. And it lost him his job tonight. And the Tea Party is the one grinning tonight, because everyone said, oh, they have had a couple of bad races. Well, not in this one.

LEMON: Listen, Ann Coulter had this to say about how immigration will affect the Republicans going forward. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANN COULTER, AUTHOR, "GODLESS: THE CHURCH OF LIBERALISM": I wish it would have the effect of Republicans waking up and seeing that this is a winning issue for the Republicans, and not just with the Republican base.

We're talking about African-Americans being hurt the most by illegal immigration, and just legal immigration, which is dumping 1.2 million low-wage workers on the country every year, through the laws of supply and demand. Democrats love to talk about economic and inequality. This is the reason for it since 1970.

And we need to care about Americans first.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So, Russell, I probably should have induced that better, because Dave Brat ran campaign ads playing up Cantor's willingness to work across the aisle on immigration.

How bad did his position on immigration hurt him?

RUSSELL BERMAN, "THE HILL": Well, it was very interesting because Eric Cantor was getting it from both sides on immigration.

Luis Gutierrez was near in his district or near his district just a week ago criticizing him for not bringing up immigration reform. And then we have Dave Brat. And he was really -- and it's very important to note he -- this was the issue that people like Laura Ingraham and Mark Levin -- Levin brought up and said, this is why we need to get Eric Cantor out of office.

And so I think it was an animating issue late in the race. Brat accused Cantor of supporting amnesty for illegal immigrants, for -- he criticized him on his Kids Act, which affects the children of illegal immigrants.

And Eric Cantor was forced to go really negative on immigration. He was adopting the language in the late days of the race that we more routinely hear from people like Steve King, referring to illegal aliens and saying he would not support Obama's amnesty plan.

FERGUSON: But, Don, I think it was -- I think it was much more simple than that.

I think it was Eric Cantor forgot that his job was to go to Washington and fight for conservative ideas. And that's what got him in trouble. He went there and all of a sudden he started wanting to be the speaker of the House. And his base, he left them behind.

He did not take care of them. And when you're hanging out with John Boehner and you're losing to a Barack Obama, who, let's be honest, is not exactly in his political prime right now, this is what happens when you don't pay attention at home.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, but could we also discuss about what alternative universe we are in where Eric Cantor is not conservative enough?

This was the guy who helped shut down the government. Now, maybe he didn't shut it down long enough, but I think what this really illustrates is just how conservative the contemporary Republican Party is. This is -- frankly, the happiest person in America tonight is Hillary Clinton, because this is who she's going to be running against in 2016.

FERGUSON: I disagree.

TOOBIN: And this is not America.

FERGUSON: I totally disagree.

(CROSSTALK)

TOOBIN: I bet you do.

FERGUSON: I think that -- the reason why I disagree is simply this.

You're implying that Eric Cantor was somehow -- beat by some crazy tonight. He wasn't. He was beat by a principled conservative that didn't have even close to the amount of money he had from big GOP establishment, which is boring and dull and uninspiring. And that's why he lost. That's not scary. That's good for Republicans.

LEMON: OK, everybody, stand by, because I have someone I want to bring in now.

And that is none other than Ann Coulter.

Ann Coulter, this is said to be -- one of the big issues here is what they're calling a crisis along the Southern border, all of these children that are coming in from Honduras and other countries on the border, and they're saying it is at a crisis level. They are there and they're not being taken care of. And they are living in facilities that they believe is are subpar.

How much did that have to do with this, if anything at all?

COULTER: Oh, I think it has a lot to do with it, but not just today's story or yesterday's story.

It's been going on for a while. And a lot of these not-very-bright Republicans seem to think they sound compassionate by acting like we can take the entire world in. Well, you know, if you look at the people of the world living in countries poorer than Mexico, we're talking about five billion people. Where do they draw the line?

And I think it just comes down to, who is going to speak for the American worker? There is income equality, and it has gone through the roof since 1970 because of immigration, both legal and illegal. It's the American worker who's suffering.

As I pointed out a million times since the last election, Mitt Romney got an astonishingly high percentage of black male voters, 20 percent. For a Republican, that is amazing. And I think it's because Mitt Romney was the only one speaking for the American worker and saying no to amnesty.

LEMON: I think it is very interesting that you say that, because, for many African-Americans, they are very conservatives when it comes to immigration, because they believes that it takes jobs away from African-Americans.

This is a place, Ann, where conservatives and African-Americans, who typically vote Democratic, where they can actually meet, where they actually agree on something.

COULTER: I totally agree. And I think Republicans are foolhardy to keep listening to the Chamber of Commerce and their big donors on this.

Being against amnesty is a winning issue with legal Hispanic voters.

LEMON: Larry Sabato.

(CROSSTALK)

LESLIE SANCHEZ, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Wow.

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: Don, if I can...

LEMON: Go ahead, quickly. But I want to get Larry in. (CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: OK.

Really, we have to take a strong position. And I have to disagree with Ann very much so on that.

If Republicans walk away from this and think that pro -- being pro- immigration reform is a way to win a campaign, then we're going to see many more defeats along the lines of Eric Cantor. If you just look to the South...

(CROSSTALK)

SANCHEZ: If you look to the South of governor -- excuse me -- Senator Lindsey Graham, who ran very pro-immigration reform, took bold leadership in this stance, and defeated many Tea Party interests, with 59 percent, the logic doesn't make sense.

It's not just the issue of immigration reform. It's that people are very frustrated with the establishment and many other things that are going on. But I don't -- I think we are foolhardy to look just at that issue.

LEMON: All right.

Larry, how big of an issue will amnesty be in the upcoming election?

LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA CENTER FOR POLITICS: Well, it will important in some places and not others.

And, by the way, Don, it is a great oversimplification to say that what happened tonight was just because of immigration or even primarily because of immigration.

Cantor did lose touch with his district. This has been building for years. He has a machine with operatives that are very tough and step on toes. And, you know, after a while, the human beings attached to the toes often will vote against you.

And let me mention one other thing that no one's brought up, and I don't think many people know. There was a strong outreach from the Dave Brat campaign to Democrats. A Brat spokesman came to the largest counties...

LEMON: But, Larry -- we lost Larry there.

But...

TOOBIN: Can I follow up on that?

LEMON: Yes.

(CROSSTALK)

TOOBIN: Because I know the point he's making. (CROSSTALK)

LEMON: But PolitiFact said that that was false that he was helped by Democrats to win, rather than by Republican conservatives.

TOOBIN: Well...

LEMON: Go ahead quickly, Jeffrey. I got to get to a break.

TOOBIN: Well, just I was at the Texas Republican Convention last week.

And the hostility to Washington among the Republican base is really astonishing. I mean, Ted Cruz, who I think is also a big winner tonight, he is defining himself as the non-Washington candidate, the one that Chamber of Commerce, the insiders, the John McCains, they don't like.

Today is a message that the Republican Party is really in the hands of the Ted Cruzes of the world, not the John McCains.

LEMON: All right, stick around, everyone, including Ann Coulter, who is joining us by phone.

We have got a lot more to talk about.

When we come right back, the Tea Party vs. the GOP -- are they turning the tides when it comes to the midterm elections, with the midterm elections in sight? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: All right, so tonight's breaking news, the stunning upset in Virginia by the stepping stone for the Tea Party.

It's a panic time -- is it panic time for the GOP establishment when it come to the number two man in the House -- in the House that loses to an economics professor?

I'm back now with my guests.

Ann Coulter is with me, Ben Ferguson, Russell Berman, Jeffrey Toobin, also Leslie Sanchez. And Larry Sabato is back with me as well.

Hey, Ann, let's talk about this Tea Party vs. the GOP, because not too long ago, everyone was touting the death of the Tea Party, that the Tea Party had run its course.

(LAUGHTER)

COULTER: Well, it may well have. The Tea Party didn't have much to do this -- with this election. The Tea Party Express is in favor of amnesty. They are just shysters and con men now.

Even Tea Party Patriots didn't help Brat at all. I don't think this is anti-establishment at all. This is 100 percent about amnesty. Someone just said, citing the Tea Party in Texas, and saying how it was so anti-establishment and Ted Cruz is the winner here.

Well, Ted Cruz is from Washington. Whatever his -- and I love him, but that is technically part of the establishment. What was his speech at the Texas Tea Party about? It was a fiery speech denouncing amnesty.

That's what people don't like about the establishment. It's this cozy relationship with the Chamber of Commerce, to the detriment of the American worker.

LEMON: But, Ann, what are you saying? People -- you're saying people don't like amnesty. You cannot round up millions of people and send them back. Are you -- you're not suggesting this, are you?

COULTER: No. But no one is suggesting that.

In fact, all these polls showing Americans allegedly supporting a pathway to citizenship -- I have written about this -- there are all these completely phony polls, because they ask two things that on both sides no one is proposing.

No one is proposing rounding up 11 million people.

FERGUSON: Amen.

COULTER: We want employer sanctions, a fence on the border.

We didn't round up 11 million people to get them here. We're not going to have to round them up to get them home. But you cut off the employers, and they're the ones pushing for amnesty.

LEMON: Who's saying...

COULTER: It's big business, agribusiness, Chamber of Commerce.

The American worker does not want any more immigration, legal or illegal.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Who is saying amen? Who is saying amen there?

(CROSSTALK)

FERGUSON: That was me.

And the reason why I said amen is there's a couple of things that -- to simplify this. And this is it. What people seem to be missing is, this is grassroots. When you have an Eric Cantor lose, it is because he doesn't listen to what the people want. And the people want job security and they want you to take care of Americans first.

And that was an issue. But when you start having your operatives deal with the little people in your district, like, oh, you take their phone calls, oh, you e-mail them back, I'm too busy for that, I'm this big dog in the GOP, the way that Eric Cantor, John Boehner, John McCain have acted, you get your rear end kicked eventually.

John McCain got his kicked for the presidency. He got his brains beat in because he was the establishment guy, even though he got the nomination. And that's what hurt him here. And so when people keep saying, well, the Tea Party may be dead, the Tea Party is only as powerful as the group in the district that's upset with the establishment. They become the Tea Party, and that's how they won on the local level.

It is not national Tea Party that is getting this done.

LEMON: Russell, what does it tell us that most Republicans view Cantor as the most conservative member in the House leadership, in the lineup, and yet he was ousted?

BERMAN: Well, I think this goes to a specific issue, which is, there's always been questions about his authenticity.

And I think this election speaks to that. I mean, if you compare his support even within the House Republican Conference, with somebody like John Boehner's, who you would not consider to be necessarily as conservative, Boehner is a guy who is a backslapper. He's a guy who has a lot of close friends in the conference.

And I think that probably translates into loyalty among his constituents, whereas Eric Cantor has never been that type of politician. He has always been seen as somewhat calculating. And you can see it even when going into talking about immigration in the latter stages of his campaign.

He totally changed his tone, if not his position, just in the last few days. And I think it probably spoke to a larger disenchantment that voters had with him that, as Larry mentioned, probably developed over a number of years.

LEMON: Larry, should we expect a radical change in the GOP leadership because of this?

SABATO: Well, there's going to be a different speaker after John Boehner, that's for sure. I think you know, there's a lot of politicking going on in Washington, as far as that's concerned.

But look, you know, so many of the things that have been said are accurate, but they're only part of the picture. Partly immigration. It was partly disconnect that Cantor had developed with his own district. It was -- it was partly the fact that he was identified, incredibly, as the moderate. I think Jeff mentioned that, you know, he's considered very conservative by any normal measures.

But there was another is a factor I was trying to point out. No one knows about this, but there was a major outreach to Democrats in that district. Forty-three percent of that district is Democratic. You had Brat operatives going to Democratic Party committees, even on election eve, asking them to go to the polls to get rid of Eric Cantor. It had nothing to do with Dave Brat. There were robo cops to Democrats in that district, wanting -- telling Democrats come out to the polls. You can vote. Which is true; we have an open primary. Get rid of Eric Cantor.

So you see, it's always more complicated once you go beneath the surface.

BERMAN: That's a key point, because there was talk about that. I was in the district last week, and there was talk about, well, maybe there's going to be this organized effort to get Democrats. Because Democrats, remember, did not field the candidate in this race. And that's why Dave Brat, in all likelihood, will be a congressman come November. Come January.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, there is a Democrat. There is a Democrat.

BERMAN: OK.

SABATO: A professor of Randolph-Macon College is the Democratic nominee.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But I have to say this.

SABATO: Randolph-Macon College is going to get a congressman.

LEMON: OK. Very quickly.

FERGUSON: But I have -- there's one issue here. The Democrats knew they weren't going to win this district. That's the reason why we're talking about is there even a Democratic candidate or not? Which tells you how conservative this was.

Make no mistake about it, the Democrats did not elect him tonight and beat Eric Cantor. The Republicans on the grassroots level did this, because they wanted a change and Eric Cantor was on the list...

LEMON: Point taken.

FERGUSON: ... just like Boehner's on the list.

LEMON: Point taken, Ben Ferguson. So we'll get to Leslie and we'll get to Jeffrey on the other side. I want you guys to hear what the Democrats are saying tonight.

So Larry Sabato, thank you very much. Everyone else make sure to stay with me.

Coming right back, we're going to talk about this as well. Another deadly shooting. And an angry President Obama calls out Congress.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: House Majority Leader Eric Cantor has lost his primary race tonight in a stunning upset. Back with me now, my panel: Ben Ferguson, Russell Berman, Jeffrey Toobin and Leslie Sanchez.

OK, since everyone hogged air time last break, I'm going to get Jeffrey and Leslie in on this one. Jeffrey, to you first. Here's what the head of the DNC said, Debbie Wasserman. She said, "The Tea Party has taken control of the Republican Party, period." And then goes on to say, when Eric Cantor, who time and time again has blocked commonsense legislation to grow the middle class can't earn the Republican nomination, it is clear the GOP has redefined far right." What do you make of that?

TOOBIN: Well, it's certainly a very conservative party, and it's certainly going to be the case that immigration reform is dead for this Congress. They -- after -- you know, we can argue about how much of a factor it was in Cantor's defeat, but it was clearly part of the story here.

So we're going to head into the 2014 election and very likely into the 2016 election with 60 plus percent of the American people supporting immigration reform, and Republicans in the House and Senate blocking it. That's not a good political position to be in for the Republicans.

LEMON: Leslie, what do you think? What do you make of Debbie Wasserman Schultz's statement?

SANCHEZ: I think that that's -- the Democrats are trying to spin this. The reality is that, yes, immigration reform was an issue.

But the bigger take-away is that Eric Cantor had two sides on this issue, and the American -- and the voters are smarter than that. He was pro-immigration reform. And then as we've heard from our guests, he moved against it and was saying that he's against amnesty. And we're seeing now many of the mailing pieces, talking about illegal aliens against amnesty.

You can't talk from both sides of your mouth and expect voters to take you seriously. And I think it had a significant -- it had a significant impact.

TOOBIN: Leslie...

SANCHEZ: Republicans cannot walk -- I can just finish my point.

TOOBIN: Sorry.

SANCHEZ: Republicans can't walk away from this and think, "Oh, we have to champion, you know, any idea that pushes, you know, prevents amnesty and that's our winning ticket," when we can see consistently across the country there are other races that proves to be wrong.

LEMON: OK, Jeffrey, go ahead.

TOOBIN: Well, I just -- Leslie, how can you -- you are -- support immigration reform. Your party has been stopping it for years. It's going to stop it even more. How can you live like that?

SANCHEZ: Thank you for asking. I'm doing very well, thank you. What a nice question.

I would say that there is tremendous frustration in Republican circles. Republicans are not advancing this. Every major immigration reform that's happened has been because Republicans have managed to do so.

There are many elements of reform that Republicans and Democrats, conservative Democrats, Latino voters, agree on, including border enforcement; including penalizing employers who are hiring undocumented workers.

But it's the issue of citizenship. And once you get into those dirty details is when it all unravels.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's...

SANCHEZ: I don't think there's a lot of faith the president is going to move and use political capital or the Democrats are. No one is talking about the 2 million people, the deportation, the high 2 million that are deported under this presidency. So there's so much inconsistency on the right and the left. I think people are, frankly, frustrated.

LEMON: Ben Ferguson, how can you live with yourself? Go ahead.

FERGUSON: It's easy. I sleep well every night.

This is -- look, this is what I call semantics and political B.S., to be blunt. OK? You have Democrats that want to bring all in these new voters. And they do that by giving them amnesty.

You have Republicans that say, it's pointless to do anything if we're not going to secure the border because we're going to have the same issue, because people keep coming across the border.

We've seen that issue play out this week in Arizona with all these illegal immigrant children that are coming across the border without parents. And they get dropped off at a bus stop? I mean, really. That's how bad the border is right now. And saying, "Hey, go wherever you want to go." We're doing it every day.

So the issue is not that Republicans are against having a deal. They're just not dumb enough to say, "Let's give amnesty without fixing the border," because we're going to be right back here in another decade with more people always coming across the border, and we didn't fix anything except for make ourselves feel better about it.

LEMON: OK. Stand by. More of Eric Cantor just coming in. Let's listen.

ERIC CANTOR, LOST REELECTION PRIMARY: Obviously, we came up short. And there are so many people in here I want to thank. First of all, I want to thank my wife, Diana, who's -- who's put up -- put up with me in elected politics now for 20-some years. And in the process, raised our kids, one of whom is here tonight. The other two are off working.

My mother-in-law, my mother, brothers, because it all starts with family. We know that. So I want to thank them.

And then to all of you, so many you've who not only today spent endless hours in the heat with your undying loyalty and effort, I want to thank you for that, as well. And I tell you, absolutely.

It's not only the hundreds of volunteers here, it is also, you know, my team. Both my team that have served the constituents of the 7th District, both here in the district office, have been continuing to serve the 7th District constituents in Washington and Culpepper. But also my political team. They have put in so much extraordinary work to try and win this campaign but have done so for the last decade or more. So I want to thank them and...

Now, serving as the 7th District congressman and then having the privilege to be majority leader, has been one of the highest honors of my life. And you know, what I set out to do and what the agenda that I have always said we're about is we want to create in Virginia an America that works for everybody. And we need to focus our efforts as conservatives, as Republicans, on putting forth our conservative solutions so that they can help solve the problems for so many working middle-class families that may not have the opportunity that we have. We can also put our solutions to work...

LEMON: Eric Cantor speaking earlier tonight.

So Russell, it sort of -- obviously, it's a, you know, sort of stock concession speech. But it sounded to me, and maybe I'm wrong, as like, "Hey, I'm done with this." Is he done, you think, or can he run as a solo candidate coming up? Or do you think it's over for him?

BERMAN: Well, I think this is certainly a shock for him, and he's going to need to take some time to sort of digest this. You know, they -- as we talked about, they were very confident, at least outwardly, in their chances for victory.

And you know, he's a young guy still, relatively for politics. He's 51 years old. And I think, certainly, you know, if he wants to continue in politics, you know, there's a comeback to be had at some point down the line.

It will be interesting to see, does he try, you know, to run a write- in campaign in this election? He didn't mention that. He didn't give any indication that he was leaning that way. But certainly, I think there will be more to say in the days to come.

TOOBIN: Don, Virginia has a sore loser rule.

LEMON: Quick.

TOOBIN: He can't -- he can't run anything except a write-in candidate. And the two Randolph Macon professors will probably take up most of the vote. It doesn't seem like write-in was much of a possibility.

LEMON: Jeffrey Toobin, Russell Berman, Ben Ferguson and Leslie Sanchez, how can you live with yourselves for coming on here. Thank you. I appreciate all of you.

Up next, more on the stunning upset and the primary season so far.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON; Immigration shaping up to be a defining issue this primary election season, and the front line, the battle right in Arizona. CNN's Gary Tuchman is there with more for us tonight.

Gary, what's happening on the border right now? Who's coming across?

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Don, what we're seeing is an influx of children and mothers and babies. There are always a lot of people coming across the border, but what we've seen since Memorial Day, over the last two weeks, is a huge increase in -- when I say children coming on by themselves, I don't mean little children. I mean teenagers who are coming by themselves and also mothers with their babies.

And the reason they're telling us they're coming is two-fold. One because of increasing violence in Central American, in Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador. Very few of these children and mothers are coming from Mexico. What we're being told is, because of increasing violence of those other Central American countries, they're trying to cross the border.

And the rule in the United States is, if children or mothers and children come, they don't automatically get sent back to those countries that are not contiguous to the United States. If it's not connected like Canada or Mexico, you can't send them right back. They know that. They're sick of the violence, and they're coming here in big numbers.

LEMON: So Gary, you know, again, this is supposed to be the big issue coming up in November. And it's estimated that, what, it had been an average of about 6,000 kids. And this year, they're estimating that it's going to be thousands more of children coming across, because they're trying to beat that amnesty date?

TUCHMAN: Thousands more. But the main reason, Don, I mean, that's been out there a long time, that it's easy to get in the country or relatively easy if you're a child or if you're a mother with a child.

But what we're being told by these mothers we're talking to is that things are getting so violent in El Salvador, things are getting so violent in these other Central American countries, they don't want their children living there.

But here, they can get to the United States, there's a good chance they can stay. And they want to be here. They pay coyotes thousands of dollars to cross the borders of Honduras and Guatemala and El Salvador, Mexico, to get into the United States. They're willing to take that risk, because they want to take the chance to being able to stay here for the rest of their lives.

LEMON: All right. Thank you, Gary Tuchman. We appreciate that.

Want to get back now to Eric Cantor trying to come to terms with his stunning loss tonight, the stunning defeat. And some in the GOP are wondering what this means for next week's run-off in Mississippi. Who better to talk about all of this, is Bill Richardson? He's a

former governor of New Mexico. And Pete Hoekstra, he's a former chairman of the House Intelligence Committee.

Good to see both of you gentlemen. Thank you for joining us. Pete, you first, where does this leave the Republican Party?

PETE HOEKSTRA, FORMER CHAIRMAN, HOUSE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: You coming to me?

LEMON: Yes, Pete.

HOEKSTRA: OK. I'm sorry, thank you.

I think, you know, don't read too much into this election other than, you think it is every Republican in Washington ought to take notice of this. This is me 22 years ago. I beat the chairman of the national Republican Campaign Committee in a primary in very similar circumstances. Outspent 15-1, given little chance of winning.

No. 1, I think is a reputation of Washington. People are frustrated and totally sick of a Washington that doesn't work. So Republicans and Democrats ought to be concerned about that.

And the second message that I read into this is Eric Cantor probably lost touch with the people back home. Tonight, Lindsey Graham won with an overwhelming margin. He stayed in touch. Eric Cantor did not.

LEMON: So Governor, Bill Richardson, some are saying that this is -- that it has everything to do with immigration. Others are saying don't overplay that. You're the former governor of New Mexico. Where does this leave immigration reform?

BILL RICHARDSON, FORMER GOVERNOR OF NEW MEXICO: Well, it's certainly a bad day for immigration reform, because the majority leader traditionally is in charge of scheduling legislation. And if the speaker and the majority leader were saying at one point that they were ready to send some piecemeal legislation, this is -- I won't say it's a death knell, but it doesn't look good for immigration reform.

Now, it may be a victory for the Tea Party tonight, but I think for the Republican Party long-range, even in the elections this coming fall, the 2014, I think that Democrats are probably going to keep the Senate now, because this is going to be a terrible message to Hispanic voters from the Republican Party. And you know, these people that are talking about amnesty caused -- first of all it is an amnesty. It takes 13 years in a path to citizenship and you have to pass a background check, learn English. So that's fallacy No. 1.

No. 2, there has been increased border security. There are more border agents, more technology. I was a border governor. There is less illegal immigration coming in.

And the reason some of these problems are happening in Arizona with these children that are exploited by coyotes and illegal carriers is because we have a broken immigration system.

Now, in the Republican Party, there are a lot of evangelicals, business leaders that want to see immigration reform. And I think what the Tea Party is doing is they're driving a huge wedge within the Republican Party that is going to cause them to lose seats this coming November. And I think certainly for a presidential election in 2016. Remember, this country is a moderate country. It's a middle-of-the- road country. This is an election in rural Virginia in a district that is very conservative.

LEMON: But it was an election that involved, you know, one of the biggest leaders of the GOP. And that was Eric Cantor. One of the most conservative. And that's why people are paying so much attention.

And people have all but said, you know, the Tea Party was over. Pete, I'm wondering. It's a good place to -- when they talk about what this meant for immigration, do you think that the -- are Republicans concerned about losing the Hispanic vote for generations because of issues like this?

HOEKSTRA: I don't think so at all. I hope the Democrats go tonight -- go to bed tonight saying, "Hey, this is the death knell for Republicans taking back the Senate." This is a repudiation of Washington. The symbol of who's in charge in Washington today is Harry Reid in the United States Senate, President Obama in the White House.

You know, when I won in 1992, two years later we had the wave of 1994. It wasn't a repudiation of Guy Vander Jagt. It was a repudiation of Washington. That is the same thing that you are seeing tonight.

This is a warning to Republicans and Democrats. Get your house in order. Start solving problems in Washington. If you don't start solving problems in Washington, we're going to take out the leadership, and there are no two stronger symbols of leadership in Washington than Harry Reid and President Obama.

RICHARDSON: I -- I disagree.

LEMON: Quickly. I'm up against a hard break; 10 seconds, Governor.

RICHARDSON: ... president. Harry Reid and the president weren't on the ballot. This is a defeat, a local defeat, for a congressman who was moving to the center, who probably lost touch with his district.

LEMON: That's going to be have to be...

RICHARDSON: ... Speaker Foley in 1994. For you to talk about...

LEMON: Thank you very much. I'm up against a hard break. I have to go. I appreciate both you, Bill Richardson and Pete Hoekstra. Thanks That's for joining me tonight.

When we come right back, we're going to talk more of tonight's breaking news and Eric Cantor's primary defeat. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Back with me now for breaking news here, the reaction to tonight's breaking news, Eric Cantor's really stunning defeat in Virginia. Brian Stelter joins me now with his reaction to what's going on.

Brian, how do you read this?

STELTER: I'll show you the best three tweets of the night. This is Christina Bellantoni, the editor in chief of "Roll Call." She says, "It's not often you get to shred tomorrow's front page. But tonight's that night. Hate to be wrong but so little is surprising in politics these days."

Here's Tim Siedell, freelance writer in Nebraska. He says, "Imagine a restaurant getting half a star on Yelp. Then imagine people being surprised when a manager gets fired. That's Congress."

And here's the last one. This is CNN's congressional producer. "Brat predicted this was going to happen. He said yesterday he expected he'd win, and he'd see a CNN van in his driveway tonight."

I think he's right about that.

LEMON: Brian Stelter, thank you. It's the top of the hour now.