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SANJAY GUPTA MD

The Big Fat Surprise; Package of Trouble; What's Really in Your Food?

Aired June 7, 2014 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN HOST: Hey there.

Something surprising to start with today on SGMD -- you are going to see how easily you can buy steroids and other medicines, sometimes with dangerous side effects with just a click of a mouse.

Also, we tell to you read food labels. But understand as well that those mysterious ingredients sometimes look like code words or foreign language. We have simple tips to help you navigate and steer clear of what you need to.

But, first, you heard this advice for years: avoid eating saturated fat, eat red meat at a minimum.

Science does not support that. It says butter, cheese and steak can be just fine. Fascinating stuff, but it also seems to go against a lot of what a lot of us have seen -- amazing results from a plant- based diet.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA (voice-over): Like a lot of women, 69-year-old Sharon Kintz did not experience the classic chest pain, but rather fatigue and a pain in her jaw. In fact, she was having a heart attack.

SHARON KINTZ, HEART PATIENT: He says, I can fix you today. I can just take you right down to O.R. and I can operate on you right now.

GUPTA: What Kintz he did next may surprise you. She turned the surgeon down cold. And decided to take a chance --

KINTZ: I bought parsnips.

GUPTA: -- using food as medicine. She is betting her diet on a vegan, developed by Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn.

(on camera):" (on camera): You have some easy-to-remember adages about how people can decide what they should or should not eat.

DR. CALDWELL ESSELSTYN, CLEVELAND CLINIC: We know what they shouldn't eat. That is oil, dairy, meat, fish, and chicken.

What do we want them to eat? We want them to eat all those whole grains for their cereal, bread and pasta, beans, vegetables -- yellow, red, green -- and fruit.

Now, what particular vegetables do we want them to have?

Bok choy, Swiss chard, kale, collards, collard greens, beet greens, mustard greens, turnip greens, Napa cabbage, Brussels sprouts, broccoli, cauliflower, cilantro, parsley, spinach and arugula and asparagus. And I'm out of breath!

(LAUGHTER)

GUPTA (voice-over): Most major diets do include meat. But there has been a push for power decades to get Americans to eat less.

But a new book by investigative reporter Nina Teicholz challenges the science behind the idea that red meat is bad.

DR. DEAN ORNISH, PREVENTIVE MEDICINE RESEARCH INSTITUTE: It's a dangerous book because it's telling people what they want to hear, not really what's true.

GUPTA: Dr. Dean helped President Bill Clinton recover from heart surgery and heart disease by using a vegan diet.

ORNISH: If you eat a diet that's high in animal protein, particularly red meat, your risk of dying from pretty much everything goes up considerably. And the healthiest way to eat is to a degree towards a whole foods, plant-based diet, and we know this because even in people who have serious chronic diseases, they begin to reverse them to the degree that they make the changes.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA: So, joining me now to talk about this is the author of "The Big Fat Surprise," Nina Teicholz.

It's an incredible book. Obviously, it's -- a lot of people are going to be talking about this. Dean Ornish, somebody that you talk about in the book, he thinks the book is dangerous because of a lot of the research that he's done.

I want to be clear on something. Are we saying -- are you saying in the book that meat doesn't increase bad cholesterol and some of the things we're told to avoid? Or the bad cholesterol itself was not as bad as was reported?

NINA TEICHOLZ, THE BIG FAT SURPRISE: The reason that meat and cheese and dairy were condemned is because they contain saturated fats. The idea was saturated fats cause your cholesterol to go up, first, it was total cholesterol, then LDL cholesterol, and that fat would clog your arteries and lead to a heart attack.

It turns out that whole chain of events does not -- it's not what we understood it to be true. In numerous clinical trials, that had been analyzed, re-analyzed, since they were originally done, it just turns out that people with the higher saturated fat diet do not have a higher rate of heart attacks in the end. GUPTA: So, how do you -- how do you suppose we got this so wrong?

This is obviously, as you know pretty prevalent thinking, in the medical and nutrition communities.

TEICHOLZ: I mean, the saturated fat has been the dietary culprit of the past 50, 60 years. And it really goes back to the 1950s when America was in the throes of the heart disease, which has rise out of nowhere, to become the nation's number one killer. President Eisenhower himself had a heart attack in 1955.

One of the ideas about that caused heart disease was proposed by one scientist named Aplenkis (ph) who said that it was saturated fats. There were other ideas at the time. But Aplenkis got that idea implanted into the American Heart Association, the nutritional guidelines of the American Heart association in 1961. And it's like the rest is really history from there. It had never been tested but when it was -- when it became dietary guidelines it had never been tested.

GUPTA: One of the things that happened as a result of those guidelines, we started replacing a lot of the fat in foods with other things. One of them being sugar. A lot more sugar in our -- our food tastes terrible if you didn't replace it with something.

Is it that sugar as -- worse than the fat? If you replace them the way that we did, got a big sugary soda here, cheeseburger over here. Which is worse for your heart?

TEICHOLZ: I think the evidence really shows that the sugar is much more problematic in terms of your risk factors for heart disease and diabetes and obesity.

GUPTA: I mean, you ask -- you know, you ask a kid about this, he says what's worse for your heart? They're all going to point to the cheeseburger.

TEICHOLZ: Well, the cheeseburger is -- you know, the meat in the cheeseburger is no problem. It's the bun that --

GUPTA: The carbohydrates.

TEICHOLZ: The carbohydrates. Right.

GUPTA: Again, as you know, you have written a book. It's a provocative book. And there's going to be a lot of people who come out and say that, look, we understand that she took issue with some of these studies. They weren't designed perfectly. They had enough of the logical flaws, but there is a lot of evidence to show that vegetarians, for example, have a lower risk of heart disease in the United States and other places around the world where they don't eat as much meat.

What do you say to that? People who don't eat as much meat seem to have lower rates of heart disease.

TEICHOLZ: There is no evidence to show that vegetarians live longer than non-vegetarians and they should.

(CROSSTALK)

TEICHOLZ: One of the things that confound those studies, that complicates them, is that vegetarians are people who care about their health. They don't smoke. They go or they exercise.

They go to the doctor. They do a lot of things that make them healthier people. They adhere to medical advice. Right?

The people who eat meat are the non-adherers. The people who are doing everything wrong because they are going against dietary recommendations.

So, those kinds of complicating factors make those studies very hard to interpret with any reliability.

GUPTA: Is this what you expected to find when you started writing the book?

TEICHOLZ: No, I was a vegetarian when I started writing this book.

GUPTA: Is that right?

TEICHOLZ: Yes. And actually, I started writing this little dinky restaurant review column where I -- we didn't have money for meals so I ate what the chefs sent out to me. And that turns out not be like served by vegetables and chicken, which I have been eating for a decade. But they wanted to send out red meat and (INAUDIBLE) and all these things that I had rarely ever eaten.

And I found, first, that they were delicious. Then, I easily dropped this stubborn 10 pounds I had been fighting. My doctor said the cholesterol levels were fine.

So, you know, as an investigative journalist I really wanted to get to the bottom of that mystery. So, it was the last thing I thought I would find.

GUPTA: So, you eat meat, dairy, eggs, whatever you want now?

TEICHOLZ: I do. And I don't think it's going to make me fat and I don't think it's going to give me heart disease.

GUPTA: It's --again, it is -- people should read this book. It's provocative. But I have been so interested in the idea that we replace so much of these fats with carbohydrates like sugar. And that could have been part of the problem.

But again, the suggestion that maybe it wasn't the saturated fat all along. A lot of people will pay attention to that. >

Thank you.

TEICHOLZ: Thank you for having me.

GUPTA: I appreciate it.

Next up, what happens when you try to buy supplement, steroids, or even prescription drugs from Amazon.com?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUPTA: Millions of people order medicines online and will is a concern some sellers are not what they appear to be. But it caught my eye to see the story on the Web site "Slate" which found that prescription medicines sold to anyone through the giant Web site Amazon, not to mention supplements that might have a bad safety record, even illegal steroids, was possible.

Joining me here is the report who wrote that story. He's also a brain injury specialist at the Shepherd Center right here in Atlanta, Dr. Ford Vox.

Welcome to the program. Thanks for being here.

DR. FORD VOX, SHEPHERD CENTER: Thank you for having me on, Sanjay.

GUPTA: What sparked this for you? You're finding prescription medications on Amazon.

VOX: Well, it's actually a story that arrived at my doorstep. I can show you -- here. My wife, who is an Amazon prime member, like quite a lot of us, including myself, loves the site, loves the ease with which you can purchase stuff on Amazon.

She was looking for an acne product for herself. She was having a little battle of acne that she couldn't treat on her own with her usual regimen, end up finding what was a prescription antibiotic called Clindamycin that she purchased not realizing that it was prescription-only and she needed a prescription to purchase the medication.

GUPTA: So, this is Clindamycin is an antibiotic that you and I both know as doctors, you would normally need a doctor's prescription. She was able to order it and got it delivered to you without a doctor involved.

VOX: That's right. She didn't know when she ordered it, which was also concerning. She opened it up. It's a pharmaceutical package and saw the name Clindamycin which she recognized, she asked her husband, myself, a doctor, hey, is this prescription only, how did I get this?

And my ears perked up at that point. I started looking around and I was shocked to find other prescription-only medications on Amazon.

GUPTA: And just to be clear, Clindamycin, these things require prescriptions often for a reason. What are the potential side effects of something like this?

VOX: Clindamycin is a powerful antibiotic. It's one we are trying to use sparingly in the hospital. It's an antibiotic that actually can cause a deadly diarrheal infection called pseudo colitis. It is an antibiotic that's known to cause potentially a very severe skin reaction called Stevens-Johnson syndrome, something you might want to know before you put it your face.

GUPTA: And again, I should point out, we did ask Amazon for comment. They didn't comment specifically on this.

I want to make sure I understand this. So, Amazon is not a pharmacy. Other companies that may manufacture these drugs may use Amazon as a distribution network. So, who is at fault here? Is it the company that's manufacturing the drugs and then using Amazon to distribute? Or Amazon itself?

VOX: Amazon both has products that they have sourced themselves, that they house in their own warehouses and ship out to us directly. They also have a number what they referred to as third-party sellers, which is a very large component of Amazon's business. Folks can sign up to sell on Amazon, small businesses from around the world.

In my wife's case, there was a small business located in Thailand where this drug is produced. These people -- actually, operating under Amazon by selling and Amazon is taking a percentage.

In the case of drugs, Amazon is taking 15 percent and Amazon is doing the payment. It's doing the payment processing. This is very different than a lot of what else we see on the internet where different Web sites are connecting buyers and sellers. For example, Craigslist or eBay and then they go and complete the transaction themselves.

This is a place where Amazon has a business relationship with the third party seller. They are charging that third party seller a fee for the luxury of selling on Amazon and connecting with Amazon customer. And you remain Amazon's customer throughout the process. So, I think the argument can be made if Amazon has indeed created an illegal market, which I think I have proven through this reporting that Amazon bears responsibility.

GUPTA: What they are doing is illegal?

VOX: It is illegal to sell these drugs without a prescription, yes.

GUPTA: And, again, people can buy this stuff on Amazon. They may not recognize the potential problems, side effects, complications that these medicines can cause. I appreciate your being on the program. It's a fascinating discussion. I think it will open a lot of people's eyes.

And, Dr. Vox has talked about it, if you do buy medicine online and there is a Center for Safe Internet Pharmacy, they have a Web site. You can check whether you are buying from a reputable place by going to that Website. It's safemedsonline.org. (MUSIC)

GUPTA: It was 40 years ago, Mark Jones was in a car accident that left him paralyzed. But it was from behind the 8-ball, literally, that he found the ability to overcome. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA (voice-over): Sixty- five years old, Mark "The Snake" Jones has competed in the world wheelchair 9-ball championships. He never planned on becoming a champion pool player, but it helped him overcome something that happened 40 years ago.

MARK JONES, WHEELCHAIR POOL PLAYER: I was asleep on the passenger's side in a little Volkswagen Beetle and the rear wheel came completely off the car and the impact, my door flew open. I didn't have on a seat belt. And I flew out of the car at probably 50 miles an hour and ended up breaking my neck, my back, broken up all over.

GUPTA: He was paralyzed, no longer able to walk.

JONES: The able body guys, my friends, you know, they said, let's play some pool. I just sat there and watched them play and I said, this can't be that difficult.

GUPTA: Friendly pickup games turned into tournaments.

JONES: It's pretty much un-describable, you know? I just love it, you know? I'm -- I just love it. Love the competition.

GUPTA: It's a feeling he wanted to share with others like himself, which is why he began working with the National Wheelchair Players Association.

JONES: It's not easy. And I know exactly what they're going through. And that's what our organization is about, really, getting people back into society again and out doing things.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA: All right. Mark, good luck to you.

Now, if you read labels, you know the ingredients that look like they are part of a secret code? I'm going to help you crack that code, also give you a few things to avoid. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUPTA: So, what did you have for breakfast this morning? This is a question I like to ask of a lot of my guests on this program, as you may know. But a few of them are going to know the answer as well as our next guest.

Mira and Jayson Calton, welcome to the program.

MIRA CALTON, CO-AUTHOR, "RICH FOOD POOR FOOD": Thank you.

GUPTA: You know your food really well.

MIRA CALTON: We know the ingredients list.

GUPTA: Lt's talk about some of these preservatives, Jason, to start off with.

JAYSON CALTON, CO-AUTHOR, "RICH FOOD POOR FOOD": Yes. Let's dangerous preservatives. So, BHA, BHT, TBHQ, these we're going to look for on the ingredient list, there are synthetic preservatives made out of petroleum.

Now, food manufacturers love to put them in the food so the consumers like us can't tell when the food is going rancid. But the real problem with this is the National Institutes of Health says that BHA is reasonably anticipated to be a human carcinogen. State of California says it is a human carcinogen. These preservatives are banned in the U.K. and in Japan.

But as you can see here, they are in a lot of foods here in America, a lot of foods that are kid foods, that these cereals, these bubble gums, these crackers.

GUPTA: What is this next up here?

MIRA CALTON: I'll take. It's a mouthful. Azodicarbonamide.

GUPTA: Azodicarbonamide.

CALTON: Exactly. Well, (INAUDIBLE)

GUPTA: Right.

CALTON: And it's actually not just potentially dangerous. It's kind of disgusting because it actually used in foam plastics most often.

GUPTA: Really?

CALTON: So, it's what made the sole of your sneaker, your yoga mat, all made out of Azodicarbonamide. And yet, it's in all of these baked goods and bread. It is an asthma-causing allergen that has been banned all over the year in the E.U. and Australia. And if you use it in Singapore, you can go to jail for up to 15 years and get a half a million dollar fine.

So, they know that this is not good stuff and it's not used in those other countries.

GUPTA: This is a Castoreum. Castoreum, again, one of these names. But this is naturally --

JAYSON CALTON: This is natural. All natural.

Yes, this is not going to be a dangerous ingredient. It's just maybe a little too natural to some people.

Let's talk about it. So, if you've been eating anything with natural vanilla, raspberry or strawberry flavoring at any time, you've probably gotten some of this. It comes from the Castor sacs of a beaver. This is located in the beaver's butt region, OK?

So, it's a brown molasses secretion that it puts out, so to go ahead and put its scent out there, so people know where it is. I don't know who was the first people to take some of that brown stuff and put it on food but it must taste pretty good because we use over a thousand pounds of it in this country every year. Now, again, this is all natural, but it's just maybe too natural from me

GUPTA: From the beaver's --

JAYSON CALTON: Yes.

GUPTA: Butt parts.

JAYSON CALTON: Yes.

GUPTA: I mean, can you ever eat ice cream again since you learned that?

JAYSON CALTON: I look for -- I want to say natural vanilla bean or natural flavors, strawberry, natural raspberry, not just natural flavors.

GUPTA: Is it harder for you to eat? I mean, you look at this table. There is a lot of products here that are -- people eat every day.

MIRA CALTON: You know what? We actually found things in every single aisle of the grocery store that didn't have any sugar, that didn't have any of those potentially dangerous ingredients. And that's why we wrote "Rich and Poor Food", we went down every single aisle and pointed to parents, point to people and said, these are good products, these are bad products, and this is how you can stay safe.

GUPTA: It's good to have a book like this because I think people -- I have young children. You don't spend the time -- even though I advocate reading labels. It's hard to get through those and find the preservatives. So, it's nice to have a book like this to help guide people.

JAYSON CALTON: Yes. We do every aisle of the grocery store. There are cereals. There's candy bars. There's ice cream in the book. And, of course, it's free of all these ingredients.

GUPTA: Free of the beaver --

JAYSON CALTON: Beaver secretions and everything else.

GUPTA: Look, it's great to have you guys on the program.

MIRA CALTON: Thank you so much.

GUPTA: Really appreciate it. Thanks for being here.

Now, you might wonder looking at all that, why are these ingredients even allowed? We decided to call the FDA about this. And they say, look, we are always studying the latest science. Based on what we know all these products are safe to eat at least in the quantities you find them on the shelves.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUPTA: We are big on fitness here at SGMD. It's been a big week for me and the Fit Nation Team. That's six regular viewers we pick prosecuted around the country that have been training alongside me for the Malibu triathlon.

Just this week, we all got together in Los Angeles. We did a mock triathlon. We did a lot of group workouts. And I can tell you, I'm confident that they are all going to finish this race. They have come a long way since January. But none more so than my new friend, Connie Sievers.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA (voice-over): For 52-year-old Connie Sievers, staying in shape was never a problem.

CONNIE SIEVERS, FIT NATION PARTICIPANT: When we got married just shortly after college, and then we had three children. It was still not a problem.

GUPTA: That is until her 3-year-old daughter Emily was diagnosed with leukemia and Emily passed away just three years later.

Throughout the ordeal, Sievers gained more than 70 pounds and it's weight, she says, she was never able to get rid of.

SIEVERS: I knew that I needed to make a change.

GUPTA: So, she applied to our fit nation challenge. And she got in.

Connie joined the team in Atlanta back in January. Uncomfortable in the water, not having been on a bike in almost 20 years, and unable to run.

Now, just four months later, she is a new woman. With the help of her coaches and her sassy six teammates, she conquered four swims in the Pacific Ocean, rode 45 miles on the bike and jogged seven miles this week alone.

SIEVERS: It's just incredible that we started from zero and now we can make it work.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA: I'm so proud of what Connie has been able to do. And again, I think they are all going to make it to the finish line in Malibu in September. What an accomplishment.

You can follow along and get workout tips and get much more at CNN.com/FitNation.

That's going on wrap things up for SGMD. But do stay connected at CNN.com/Sanjay. Let's get the conversation going on Twitter @DrSanjayGupta.

Time now, though, to get you back to the "CNN NEWSROOM" with Poppy Harlow.