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THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER

Malaysian Prime Minister Interview; Nevada Rancher Makes Controversial Comments; Bluefin-21 Nearing End of Search; Rancher Branded a "Racist"

Aired April 24, 2014 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: The lapses in the Flight 370 investigation, the insensitivity to the families, you're about to hear the prime minister of Malaysia answer for all of it.

I'm Jake Tapper. This is THE LEAD.

That world. The families accuse his government of hiding information, of being the -- quote -- "true murderers" of their loved ones aboard Flight 370. In an exclusive this hour, Malaysia's leader defends his handling of this mystery right here on THE LEAD.

Plus, the politics lead. He's the Nevada rancher using federal land for a free battle buffet. Conservatives rushed to his defense, but that was before he started wondering aloud whether -- quote -- "Negroes" had it better under slavery. Now those supporters can't get away fast enough.

Also, in world lead, President Obama getting his kicks on his trip overseas. Get it? He has long planned to pivot his foreign policy toward Asia, but is that really the right focus at a time when the U.S. accuses Russia of fomenting a civil war in Ukraine?

Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

We will begin with the world lead. We're now entering, believe it or not, the seventh week with Flight 370 disappeared with 239 people on board. And the U.S. Navy's robo-sub has reached the last 10 percent of that search area underwater, isolated from pings that could have been from the black boxes.

So far, the Navy has nothing to show for it. Much more on the search in a moment.

But, first, I want to talk about the people who deserve answers more than anyone, the relatives of those on board the plane. These families are already greatly at the handling of the investigation, they are furious that the Malaysia government gave the United Nations its preliminary report on the disappearance, but has not yet released it publicly.

For much of the last seven weeks, Malaysia's acting transportation minister has been the public face of the government's investigation.

But, ultimately, he has to answer to the man at top, Malaysia's prime minister, the man who a month ago today told those families that Flight 370 ended in the Indian Ocean, while only offering circumstantial proof.

Our own Richard Quest sat down with the Malaysian prime minister in an exclusive interview a short while ago.

He joins me now to talk about it.

Richard, you pressed the prime minister on what happened that night the plane disappeared. What did he tell you?

RICHARD QUEST, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jake, because what happened when the plane did its turn and flew back across Peninsula Malaysia is really the single biggest issue, the elephant in the room, if you like.

We do not know. Everything else is stuff, all the other criticisms. But what happened on that night after the turn at around 1:20 is core. And for the first time, the Malaysian prime minister told us.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NAJIB RAZAK, MALAYSIAN PRIME MINISTER: The military radar, the primary radar has some capability. It tracked an aircraft, which did a turn back, but they were not sure, exactly sure whether it was MH370. What they were sure of was that the aircraft was not deemed to be hostile.

QUEST: No planes were sent up on the night to investigate.

NAJIB: No, because -- simply because it was deemed not to be hostile.

QUEST: Don't you find that troubling, that a civil aircraft can turn back, fly across the country, and nobody thinks to go up and have a look? Because one of two things -- I understand that the threat level and I understand that either the plane is in trouble and needs help or it's nefarious and you really want to know what somebody is going up there to do. So, as prime minister, don't you find that troubling?

NAJIB: You see, coming back to my earlier statement was that they were not sure whether it was MH370.

QUEST: Even more reason to go up and have a look.

NAJIB: They were not sure, but it behaved like a commercial airline.

QUEST: Moving to then when the Inmarsat data is brought to your attention, did you have any doubts when Inmarsat said and your advisers said, we believe now the plane flew for seven hours or so, six-and-a-half-hours or so, and this is where it went? Did you -- you must have had quite a shocked reaction?

NAJIB: To be honest, I found it hard to believe to begin with, because how could a plane that was supposed to be heading towards Beijing, you know -- they could decide that the plane ended halfway towards Antarctica? It's a bizarre scenario which none of us could have contemplated.

So, that's why, when I met the team -- and, mind you, these are the foremost experts in aviation industry -- they are the real experts, as you know. You know, they come from the United States. They come from the U.K. And they were there.

I asked them, are you sure? I asked them again and again, are you sure? And their answer to me was, we are as sure as we can possibly be.

QUEST: Are you prepared now to say the plane and its passengers have been lost?

NAJIB: On the balance of the evidence, it would be hard to imagine otherwise, Richard.

QUEST: But the significance is that, until Malaysia says the plane has been lost, the compensation packages, the next stage of the proceedings under the Montreal Convention can't take -- go ahead.

So I ask you again, Prime Minister, are you prepared to say that the plane and its passengers are lost?

NAJIB: At some point in time, I would be.

QUEST: But not now?

NAJIB: But, right now, I think I need to take into account the feelings of the next of kin. And some of them have said publicly that they are not willing to accept it until they find hard evidence.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: Now, it is these difficulties of fact, these seemingly inconsistent arrivals and departures that took place, all of which led to the impression that Malaysia somehow was either hiding something, was incompetent, or had bungled the investigation in the early days.

I asked the prime minister how he felt about the fact that his country had been effectively kicked around the world.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: The country has had a real kicking over the perspective and perception of the way it handled those early days. I think the phrase used in many cases, Malaysia bungled it.

NAJIB: I -- I have to be quite frank with you.

I think, first of all, we have to start from the premise that it was unprecedented. We all agree it was unprecedented. It was the most technically challenging, the most complex issue that Malaysia or any country, for that matter -- and I believe even an advanced country, you know, would have great difficulty handling such an issue.

Some of the things we did well, we were very focused on searching for the plane. We didn't get our communications right, absolutely right to begin with. But I think, towards later part, we got -- we got our act together.

So I'm prepared to say that there are things we did well. There are things that we didn't do too well. But we prepared -- we prepared to look into it, and we prepared for this investigation team to do its objective assessment.

QUEST: In the last 24 hours, we have had a very good example of what the critics say, the preliminary report.

Now, not only did Malaysia not announce that it had submitted the preliminary report. It's still deciding whether or not to tell us we had it and to release it, even though it's got a safety recommendation within it.

Now, I have covered enough air crashes to know that almost never -- almost always is the preliminary report published. So what we have here, Prime Minister, is an investigation or a minister who speaks the language of transparency, but the practicalities of seeming to do the opposite.

NAJIB: I hear the voices out there, Richard.

So, I have directed an investigation, internal investigation team of experts to look at the report. And there's a likelihood that, next week, we could release the report.

QUEST: Why not release it now, Prime Minister? Is there something in it that is embarrassing to Malaysia?

NAJIB: No, I don't think so.

But I just want it to be -- this team to go through it. But in the name of transparency, we will release the report next week.

QUEST: You will?

NAJIB: We will release it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

QUEST: And I think, Jake, what you're seeing is a prime minister who believes that this information should be released, is slightly shocked that it hasn't, and is certainly worried that the 21st century perception of his country is one that things are being hidden on an issue as important of that.

And that's why this will be released and I suspect and I believe other documents will be, too.

TAPPER: Richard Quest in Kuala Lumpur, thank you so much.

Coming up, it's a small area that's perhaps the best hope for finding Flight 370, but only with a sliver left to search, will teams come up empty again? Plus, he picked up his gun when the feds told him he was breaking the law. And Republican politicians and conservative news media made him a celebrity because of it. So, how are they responding today after this Nevada rancher was caught on tape making appalling, racist comments?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD.

Continuing our world lead, as the Bluefin-21's search for Flight 370 winds down with no sign yet of the plane, investigators are shifting focus to sort out what should happen next. Should they move the search area? Perhaps they should bring in other underwater devices to scan areas that the Bluefin-21 may have missed.

CNN justice correspondent Pamela Brown is here with more.

Pamela, have officials made it clear yet what the next step will be?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Malaysian and Australian officials, Jake, haven't announced the decision just yet about what that next step will be or what it will look like. But with the search in the most promising area of the crash site (ph) about to wrap up, we'll likely see a shift in the search efforts very soon.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): Today, potentially the final day of searching a part of the ocean investigators thought was their best hope.

DAVID GALLO, CNN ANALYST: It's a place they had to look, because they had the pings, they had the Inmarsat data, they had the fuel consumption of the aircraft. Everything pointed to this area.

BROWN: Crews have so far covered 90 percent of a six-mile radius area with the Bluefin, looking for the missing Malaysian plane with no luck. Nearly three weeks ago, the towed pinger locator detected four signals in close proximity, thought to be from the plane's black boxes. Crews said the second ping was the highest quality and that's why they launched the Bluefin in this small area first.

During its day-long missions, the Bluefin is being pushed to its limits, diving deeper than designed, using side scan sonar and then resurfaces so data can be downloaded and studied. Investigators say they're regrouping and reevaluating current search efforts. It's something familiar to David Gallo, who was part of the search for Air France Flight 447.

GALLO: It's just a matter of sitting in a room with a nice, clean white board and going through what we know, what we don't know, ands what do we do next. So, it took a lot of thoughts. So, there was a long (AUDIO GAP), months before we came up with the next plan of what to do.

BROWN: It took 75 days of subsea search missions, over two years to find that wreckage. In this investigation, the subsea search area could be shifted or expanded and perhaps to include the other three pings and using other vehicles to scan the ocean floor.

This Remus 6000 was used in the search for Air France 447 and can go deeper than the Bluefin. Another option, a towed sonar system, like the Orion, which can continually scan large areas underwater.

But Gallo says whatever the system, he expects this general part of the ocean to still be the target.

GALLO: I just don't know how you leave this place before you really take this -- take that area to see where we are (ph) completely.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And the surface ship that is currently being used in the subsea search efforts with the Bluefin cannot be refueled at sea, so it will eventually have to return to port and, of course, that could take a few days. So, Jake, there's a lot of questions about when or if other tools will be brought in to continue the underwater search.

TAPPER: There had been two parts of the search, underwater, and also the air search. The air search has been called off the last couple of days because of bad weather. Any word on whether that will continue?

BROWN: Well, it's a good question, because we heard Angus Houston last week, Jake, say that they're going to scale back the air search and in fact end the air search. It appears to be ongoing because it picked back up for Thursday. We don't know exactly if it's going to be continuing tomorrow, but it seems as though it will be.

So, there's a lost questions about that and it makes you wonder if they were going to end it, why it is ongoing and the biggest reason why they said they were going to end it is because the likelihood of finding floating material from the plane has greatly diminished. So, you wonder if something has changed or privy to other data or information.

TAPPER: Although some of our experts dispute that, but anyway.

Pamela Brown, thank you so much.

Coming up, he was hailed as a hero by conservative media and big-name Republicans for taking an armed stand against the federal government. But will those conservatives stand by this rancher after he's caught on tape saying, quote, "Negros had it better under slavery"?

Plus, President Obama taking some heat for playing tourist in Japan. Is he missing a chance to beef up his foreign policy credentials?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD.

The politics lead now, seldom was heard a discouraging a word, at least not from the right, because for a fleeting moment, some very big-name politicians, along with some anchors at a certain conservative news channel were hailing Cliven Bundy saying that a broad rancher from Nevada, with a guts to stand up to the federal government, a man who for two decades illegally grazed his cattle on public lands that he claims were his and chased off the feds when he tried to stop them, get along (INAUDIBLE), well, that was the folk tale. Anyway, the reality is much more complicated and tad more racist.

Various Republican lawmakers today ran from Bundy faster than the pony express as some of his lessen enlighten views came to light in this story of the not even remotely O.K. Corral.

CNN chief congressional correspondent Dana Bash -- well, she has the real story -- Dana.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Jake. This is a story, as you said, of somebody who galvanized the conservative community and now, they can't get away fast enough.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BASH (voice-over): For nearly a month, Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy has been battling federal authorities over his lands cattle grazing on public land.

CLIVEN BUNDY, RANCHER: The federal government is here with an army stealing my cattle. It's what it is. It's not seizing, they're stealing my cattle.

BASH: Bundy's antigovernment crusade turned him into a conservative hero, thanks in part to a platform on FOX News.

SEAN HANNITY, FOX NEWS: My next guest, Cliven Bundy.

BASH: A recurring guest of Sean Hannity, a vocal supporter.

HANNITY: But I would think the federal government might be thankful because you're cutting the lawn for free.

BASH: When Nevada Democratic Senator Harry Reid called Bundy a domestic terrorist, Republican Dean Heller said this --

SEN. DEAN HELLER (R), NEVADA: What Senator Reid may call domestic terrorist, I call patriots.

BASH: Now, it's not Bundy's antigovernment rant getting attention, it's Wednesday's racist remarks.

BUNDY: I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negroes. They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I've often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and have a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy?

BASH: Before those comments, Bundy drew praise from GOP presidential hopefuls.

MIKE HUCKABEE (R), FORMER ARKANSAS GOVERNOR: There's something incredibly wrong when a government believes that some blades of grass that a cow eating is so an egregious affront to the government of United States.

GOV. RICK PERRY (R). TEXAS: We're a rule of law country and private property is at the base of it.

SEN. RAND PAUL (R), KENTUCKY: It really is government overreach, government gone amuck.

BASH: Now, some who jumped on Bundy's antigovernment big government bandwagon are running the other way. Rand Paul tweeted, "His remarks on race are offensive and I wholeheartedly disagree with him." And a spokesman for Nevada Republican Dean Heller underscored he called Bundy supporters patriots, not Bundy himself. "Senator Heller completely disagrees with Mr. Bundy's appalling and racist statements and condemns them in the most strenuous way."

On his radio show, Sean Hannity was blunt --

HANNITY: I'm pissed off today.

BASH: Condemning Bundy's comments.

HANNITY: People that for the right reason saw this as government overreach now are like branded because of the ignorant, racist, repugnant, despicable comments of Cliven Bundy.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: Dana Bash joins us now. We're also joined by the host of CNN's "RELIABLE SOURCES", Brian Stelter.

Thanks for joining us.

Dana, here's Bundy standing by the statement on the Peter Schiff radio show today.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

BUNDY: I said I'm wondering if they are better off under government subsidy and young women are having abortions and their young men are in jail and their older women and children are sitting out on the cement porch without nothing to do. You know, I'm wondering, are they happier now under this government subsidy system than they were when they were slaves and they was able to have a family structure together?

(END AUDIO CLIP)

TAPPER: Well, that clears it up.

So I guess the big question, Dana and Brian, is -- I'll start with you, Dana. How significant is this story to the 2014 midterms to politics?

BASH: Well, the fact that the people who were jumping on the bandwagon as a perfect example of anti -- a way to get at the government are distancing themselves fast means that it probably is not going to hurt them in the long term. But it does certainly speak to a question about the split of the party.

I mean, let's just face it, you do have some conservatives, who I talked to privately today, some maybe more establishment Republicans --

TAPPER: Right.

BASH: -- saying, you know what, this is what happens when you jump to be this kind of -- you jump to this kind of atmospheric and it could come back to bite you.

TAPPER: Brian, we just heard Sean Hannity distance himself from the comments. He also said that this is an example of media double standard. Somebody like Cliven Bundy does this, we make a big thing at it, we ask for Republicans to condemn, we don't do that when liberals say outrageous things and Democratic politicians are not asked to condemn.

Does he have a point?

BRIAN STELTER, RELIABLE SOURCES: I think there are some cases where that's true, but this doesn't feel like one of them. I can't think of any parallel to this case. I can think of MSNBC taking an equivalent story on the left and spending weeks covering it the way FOX News has and Sean Hannity chief among them, talking about the host on FOX News.

But there was a way for Sean Hannity and others who understandably took up this cause to avoid getting in this situation, and that is to find out more about this man before they started to embrace him. These comments, these racist comments happened days ago but we didn't hear about them because there were no other reporters present at the time. It wasn't' until "The New York Times" wrote about them last night and in this morning's paper that we saw people like Rand Paul have to distance themselves from Bundy.

TAPPER: Dana, you know who is making a big deal out of these comments is Democratic politicians. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada had this to stay in a statement, quote, "To advance his extreme and hateful views, Bundy has endangered the lives of innocent women and children. This is not a game. National Republican leaders could help show a united front against this kind of hateful, dangerous extremism by publicly condemning Bundy."

But the truth is --

BASH: They are.

TAPPER: But the truth is, as you noted is that a lot of Republicans embraced him. Most of the establishment Republicans kept away.

BASH: That's right. They did. Most of them did.

Those who are as we illustrated in the piece, who are seriously thinking about Republican voters in the base, those who want to potentially be president in 2016 and need to win a Republican primary, those are the kinds of -- these are the kinds of story lines that they want to embrace. I talked to Lindsey Graham who is running for re- election in South Carolina. He has a primary. He's got a lot of Tea Party-backed candidates who are opposing him and he said that he, in South Carolina, who got many questions in town halls about what was going on with Cliven Bundy because it was being driven a lot by social media, by FOX News, so the conservative media that these Republican voters are -- you know, are taking and consuming, they are turning it around and asking all of these politicians.

So, this is the kind of thing that spreads like wildfire and it is very hard for politicians in the Republican Party who don't want to go down this road to stay away from it.