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CNN NEWSROOM

Bluefin Data Analysis; Inside a Submarine; Jews in Ukraine Told to Register; Tension in Ukraine; Students Trapped on Ferry

Aired April 17, 2014 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: We begin with breaking news. Top of the hour. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Let's get right to it.

From the U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry with really a stunning allegation. He has condemned religious intolerance, saying leaflets are being dropped in these small Ukrainian towns telling people there to identify themselves as Jewish.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: Just in the last couple of days, notices were sent to Jews in one city indicating that they had to identify themselves as Jews. And, obviously, the accompanying threat implied is or threatened or suffer the consequences. One way or the other. In the year 2014, after all of the miles traveled and all of the journey of history, this is not just intolerable, it's grotesque.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So in just a matter of minutes, we will take you live to the Ukrainian boarder here just to get a little bit more context from our correspondent there who's been on the ground. A lot of questions there on that breaking story at this hour.

Also this. Now to the hunt to find Flight 370. Here is what we know right now. Crews are anxiously waiting to find out exactly what this Bluefin-21 saw thousands of feet below the surface of the Indian Ocean. Crews are now - they're going through this information, downloading the data, analyzing it onboard the Ocean Shield after the underwater drone completed its first full mission. Keep in mind, it spent some 16 hours mapping the ocean floor, searching for any signs of this airplane. But it was Malaysia's transportation minister taking a different tone today, saying if no traces of the missing 777 are found, officials will have to rethink the whole operation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HISHAMMUDDIN HUSSEIN, MALAYSIAN ACTING TRANSPORTATION MINISTER: There come a time that we will maybe need to regroup and reconsider. But in any event, the search will always continue. It's just a matter of approach.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BALDWIN: Regroup and reconsider. Do you hear those words? That message, by the way, was echoed by Australia's prime minister, leading some analysts to say the next step could be what's being dubbed white sheet planning. Basically forget everything we thought we knew, start again with, you know, carte blanche, blank canvas, reanalyze the data from the moment the plane went missing.

As for that sample taken from an oil slick in the search area, it has been tested back in Perth. It turns out the oil did not come from an aircraft engine.

So will the Bluefin produce what everyone's been hoping for? Some evidence, some sighting of the wreckage? Let's go now to CNN's Erin McLaughlin at the search base in Perth, Australia, 2:00 where Erin is and she joins me on the phone.

And, Erin, I know, you know, it takes just about four hours for the -- even the data download from the Bluefin-21. Do you have any idea what the results from this latest descent could be?

ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Hi, Brooke.

Well, we have some new information from Jim Gibson (ph), the general manager of Phoenix International, the company that is under contract to operate Bluefin-21. He tells CNN's Brian Todd that the third dive was, quote, "very productive" and successful at 3,700 to 4,500 meters. That it was on the bottom for 12 hours, 58 minutes and covered 21 square miles. The total drive duration of 19 hours.

He went on to say that no debris or aircraft wreckage recovered on any of the four dives to date. Now, we understand, according to Gibson, that there has been a fourth dive. It's unclear if that is still underway.

We are still waiting to hear from the Australians, who last put out a statement this morning saying they were analyzing the results from the third mission. We're checking for comment and we'll get back to you as soon as we have that.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: So, Erin, I just have to ask, if he's saying nothing was found, no debris, no evidence, no nothing, then how does he measure success?

MCLAUGHLIN: I mean the next step would be to, at this point, to keep searching. The Australian prime minister, Tony Abbott, gave an interview to "The Wall Street Journal" yesterday saying that the best lead in this underwater search will be exhausted in the next week. And then authorities will need to rethink their approach if the remote controlled vehicle failed to locate any wreckage.

So I think we're still in that phase where they're searching the most probable area where they believe they will find the black box based on detail analysis of those acoustic protections (ph) from those pings, the second ones lasting some 13 minutes according to the U.S. Navy being the most promising of those pings. But we're still in the phase where the Bluefin-21 is still searching and the prime minister of Australia is saying that it's going to take them a week to exhaust the best leads.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: OK. Erin McLaughlin in Australia with the search efforts.

So just to recap, this piece of technology, this Bluefin-21, hasn't found a thing as far as evidence goes of this missing 777. So if this unmanned Bluefin continues to come up short, obviously an alternative can be sent in an manned underwater device, a submarine. So, correspondent Martin Savidge, fresh from his time in that flight simulator for many weeks, is now tucked inside here, this real submarine underwater. He is in Horseshoe Bay, Vancouver, British Columbia.

So, Martin, I know this is a manned submarine. This is not, you know -- not the device obviously they're using right now in the Indian Ocean. But what would be advantages of having a manned device?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you're right, this device that we're in, which is known as the Aquarius, can go to a depth of about 1,000 feet. So nowhere near the depth that we're talking about potentially for the aircraft. But there are many ways that we can show you the difficulties they're up against. Phil Nuytten is the man who knows just about everything when it comes to underwater recovery. He is joining me here.

Let me just point out, Brooke, extremely tight quarters for this vessel that we are inside of here. We've (INAUDIBLE). I don't know if he's got the ability to swing around and show Jeff Heaton (ph), who is the chief pilot in the back here. Four of us that are now -

BALDWIN: Tight quarters.

SAVIDGE: Yes, four of us now inside of this vessel, which is, of course, sealed up and sitting on the bottom of Horseshoe Bay.

But take a look at the view out here. You can see we are sitting right on the bottom. There's some rock and -- you can see some vegetation right down there. But, Phil, the first thing I notice here is visibility issues. And visibility issues is something that very much could be a problem for anybody that goes down to that kind of depth we may be talking for that vessel, the airplane.

PHIL NUYTTEN, NUYTCO RESEARCH: Well, I think that certainly the - the visible (ph) depths covered in the bottom with a - sort of a (INAUDIBLE) ooze (ph) and it is so soft that the slightest disturbance here will bring up a dust cloud. And if the -- whatever devices is used to go down there, whether it be an ROV or a manned submersible, they all are going to have vertical thrusters. And when they thrust up, that's going to disturb the bottom and the dust cloud will come up -- we call it dust cloud. Actually it's a cloud of (INAUDIBLE) sediment in the water will obscure the vision for some period of time. That could be, depending on the current, could be just, you know, 30 seconds or it could be 30 minutes.

SAVIDGE: Now, let me - Jeff, I'm going to ask, can you put some more lighting out front so we can just see - eventually (ph) we can beef up the light. But one of the things you'll notice is that how quickly stuff can disappear in the gloom. So, in other words, you could be down at that depth and you're going to need light. It's absolutely pitch black. And, yet, if you're not within, I don't know, nine feet, maybe six feet of something out there from the human eye point of view, you're not going to see it are you?

NUYTTEN: Well, it depends entirely on the visibility on the bottom. But the visibility could range anywhere from just a few feet, as we have here, to a much better range of vis (ph). But you can't depend on it. So, you know, you go one day you're down and you see well. The next day down and, you know, it's obscured (ph).

SAVIDGE: We've got a little demo we can do for you here, Brooke, because, you know, the mechanical arm here that is attached to this, we have a black box that we've managed to grab. And I'm going to ask that -- Phil is going to try and bring it in here and put it into the basket. And we'll, you know -- again, this is the type of recovery. Whether it's going to be an ROV or whether it's going to be one of only six manned-type vessels that can go this deep, they're all going to work in this kind of way.

And it's never precise. I mean it's not like the human hand just sort of reaching out there and grabbing. The black box is set up in such a way that there are grapples on it, but the difficulty is maneuvering it and getting it into the basket because that is the way it's going to come up. And everything rests, of course, in the answers that may be in that flight data recorder. So, you can't crush it, you can't damage it, it has to be precise and it's got to make it up to the surface.

All right, so you get it inside.

But one more thing I want to show you real quick here.

BALDWIN: Yes, I'm with you. I'm with you, Marty.

SAVIDGE: And that is - Jeff, if you would -- give us a blast of just -- if you are going to maneuver and we need the thrusters in any way, this is another problem that comes up because we've already said visibility is tough. If we start to try to lift off from the bottom -

NUYTTEN: (INAUDIBLE).

SAVIDGE: Yes. Give us a full thrust, right. So you'll see if we lift up, which is fine, I mean, what's the you want to do, but then the other factors that start to come into play is that the very motion and the front thing (ph) will start to create visibility issues. We're just watching as the - well, you can see it starting to come up and build around us. (INAUDIBLE) we are trying to navigate through some rather big boulders, which is another issue. You know, underneath here, the navigation is going to be done pretty much by sonar, right, Phil? NUYTTEN: Well, most of the navigation will be done by sonar. But then, of course, it's, in the end, it's going to come down to visual and it depends -- you know, and what the bottom looks like. It's unlikely that there will be large rocks or that sort of stuff. It's mostly a soft, oozy (ph) bottom with regular terrain. But certainly there will be a lot -- enough soft stuff that we need to do a lot of thrusting and you're going to stir up a lot at the bottom.

SAVIDGE: Yes. All right, well that's -- I mean that's pretty much it, Brooke. You know, we're - we're going to now try and bring this baby back up to the surface. Bad place for the claustrophobic. I will have to tell you that yesterday, when I first jumped in this thing, I jumped right out. But thanks to some good coaching from Phil and - I am (INAUDIBLE) feeling pretty (INAUDIBLE).

BALDWIN: Oh, my goodness.

NUYTTEN: It has the tendency to do that. It not only grows on you, it grows.

BALDWIN: Martin, my -

SAVIDGE: (INAUDIBLE).

BALDWIN: My - I tip my hat to you. I tip my hat to you and everyone else in this teeny-tiny manned submarine. There is no way in a million years you could get me in that thing. But thank you so much for explaining it. It's the sonar versus the camera versus just how tough it is really to see anything down there, but thank you so much to you in that submarine.

Just ahead, we'll take you back to this missing plane story. But much more on the stunning revelation, leaflets handed out in Ukrainian towns ordering Jews to register with authorities. We have reporters at the White House, in the Ukraine. We're all over that coming up next.

Also ahead, as the death toll rises, rescuers frantically searching dark, foggy, freezing conditions here. Cold waters for hundreds of people that were on the ferry that capsized out of South Korea, just going out on a trip full of high schoolers.

Also ahead, the search for Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 has thus far turned up nothing despite another underwater mission from this AUV, the Bluefin-21. And now searchers are preparing for the possibility the underwater drone may never find any debris. Stay here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Welcome back. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

In the midst of the chaos that is spreading today in Ukraine, the United States is lodging a stunning allegation that pamphlets have appeared in the town of Donetsk ordering Jews to register with self- proclaimed authorities loyal to Moscow. Now, we are still in the midst of tracking down all of the details here, but I can tell you that the U.S. ambassador is telling CNN, and I quote, "this is the real deal." We now have a statement from a local Jewish group saying that masked men handed out these pamphlets to Jews leaving Passover services. Again, truly a frightful allegation here. Here is U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry at an emergency meeting on Ukraine in Geneva, Switzerland.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: Just in the last couple of days, notices were sent to Jews in one city indicating that they have to identify themselves as Jews. And, obviously, the accompanying threat implied is -- or threaten, or suffer the consequences. One way or the other. In the year 2014, after all of the miles traveled and all of the journey of history, this is not just intolerable, it's grotesque.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's go straight to the ground to CNN's Nick Paton Walsh, who is live in Donetsk with more on the developing story.

And, Nick, have you been able to find out anything about this?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we know that (INAUDIBLE) from the chief rabbi of Donetsk, he made a statement just earlier on saying that on the 15th of April, second day of Passover, leaflets were posted outside the main synagogue here in Donetsk. And they said, as you said, the local Jews should register themselves with the (INAUDIBLE) pro-Russian government here. That's actually the (INAUDIBLE) Donetsk and occupying the main administration building here behind me.

Now, the chief rabbi himself went on to say that the man who allegedly signed these orders (INAUDIBLE) denies having ever had (INAUDIBLE) himself. And this is a really unprofessional forgery. Not even my handwriting and even the title they used for me isn't the title I use for myself normally. He calls it a provocation designed to sew hatred amongst various groups here and that's exactly what the chief rabbi calls it as well and says, look, we've lived perfectly peacefully here as Jews of (ph) the people of Donetsk for quite some time. So, all groups are calling this a provocation designed to incite hatred between them. And it is, at this point, it seems one instance (ph).

Russia points out, Brooke, this is extraordinarily serious for the U.S. to be seizing upon it because missfounded fears of everyone else being a fascist or a Nazi is at the heart of this. The pro-Russians call the pro-Ukrainian's Nazis and they point to the same fact. So it's an extraordinarily dangerous and volatile environment to be throwing these accusations around.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: Especially when you look at that history, of course, of what happened in this part of the word. Nick Paton Walsh, thank you.

So, the effort to calm things down in Ukraine has just taken on, as Nick mentioned, much more urgency. Here is U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry, we wary handshake with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov at that emergency meeting in Geneva just to try to stop Ukraine from plunging into civil war. Kerry and Lavrov both endorse a demand to disarm illegal groups and give them conditional amnesty. But can that be enforced? Who knows. Remember, the Russians are amassing troops on their side of the border here. And President Putin said today he has gotten a green light from his parliament to send them into Ukraine if necessary to protect pro-Russian Ukrainians.

Of course, though, the west, the west, says that's a sham. That Putin wants an excuse just to seize additional parts of Ukraine, to seize parts of eastern Ukraine. So let's go to the White House, to our correspondent there, Michelle Kosinski.

And, Michelle, what is the White House line today on Vladimir Putin?

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Brooke.

Well, so far they have not made any additional statements. But we did get a lot of information on what the administration views as Putin's mindset throughout this at a background briefing yesterday. The senior administration officials, they described what they think his strategy is, ultimately to, even if it's through a sort of decentralized or federalized system with these regions really breaking off from control of the Kiev government and leaning toward Russia, that Russia would essentially control the foreign and domestic policies of Ukraine.

Now, from Putin today, we heard some things that were very much expected, denying any involvement, denying that there were troops within eastern Ukraine, denying involvement in those militias that the west has seen as fully Russia backed and also blaming the government of Ukraine for the problems there. And then a few unexpected things, too. Criticizing the U.S. and at the very end answering a question by saying that if Putin were drowning, he still thinks President Obama would save him. Many of these are - they spark questions for the administration that we'll be asking a little bit later today. But so far they're not adding anything further to the situation. And what we've heard from Secretary Kerry on developments today, or what are hoped to be developments, or on Putin's words.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: We'll watch to see if there is any word later on this afternoon. Michelle Kosinski, thank you so much, from the White House.

We have been going through and reading more heartbreaking tweets and texts that these students on this ferry have been sending to their parents that has basically sunk here off South Korea. We will bring them to you, coming up.

And if the unmanned underwater vehicle comes up empty again in the search for this missing plane, what's next? Stay with me. Special, live coverage here on CNN after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: All right. We have to get to this urgent race to save just about 300 people, many of whom are high school students who have been trapped, according to authorities, inside these isolated pockets of air in an overturned ferry. This is all we can now see. Look at this. Of the five-story ship, the death toll rising to just 20 - to 20 just a short time ago. It is early morning there now. This ferry was carrying some 475 people, mostly, as I mentioned, high school students and teachers. They were on this class trip headed to this resort island. And that was until their ferry suddenly tilted while bangs were heard. Most of the passengers' bedrooms were on the fourth floor. By the way, the fourth floor now, under water.

Earlier, divers, rescue crews, tried at least six times to enter the now underwater cabins. All six unsuccessful. Part of the reason here, relentless rain, whipping winds, thick fog, all getting in their way.

But what about the captain here? The captain's role in all of this. He reportedly managed to get off the boat pretty quickly. And we have learned the ship may have been off course when it ran into trouble. The captain broke down in tears earlier as he talked to reports with a hood pulled over his head. He says he is at a loss for words.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Any words for the family members of the missing?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I'm sorry. I'm at a loss for words.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: CNN's Amara Walker joins me back in the studio today for more on this.

And so before we get to updates from those texts we were talking about yesterday, let's get to the criticism because a lot has been made, and appropriately so, on these lifeboats, right? In an emergency situation, there were some 46 or so lifeboats. According to our affiliate over there, one was used and so there's been a lot of - a lot of, you know, critical lobs between local media and the government.

AMARA WALKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. Right, there has been a lot of criticism coming from families, but we're also seeing the media weigh in, the local media. And now we have the leading South Korean newspaper, (INAUDIBLE), basically blasting the government and its response. And the title of this editorial that came out today is "ferry tragedy could have been avoided."

And one of the things that this editorial points out is that the government failed to get an accurate tally of the missing. And this article is referring to the incident when the news first broke, government officials had said, look, all the passengers or at least all the students have been rescued. And then they had to backtrack saying, look, we miscalculated. In fact, there's nearly 300 people missing. So a lot of people weighing in on how the government has been responding to this. BALDWIN: What about these specific stories? What about the five-year- old little girl?

WALKER: Oh, this is just a heartbreaking story. And we do have a photo of this little girl. And she's holding her brother's hand there. And she was actually on the ferry with her brother and her parents.

BALDWIN: Oh, here they are.

WALKER: There she is right there with her brother. Well, the sad thing about this is that her brother is missing and so are her parents. The family was on this ferry. They were headed to Jedju (ph) Island apparently (ph) to do a house hunting trip. But social media played a very strong role in all of this because South Korean police posted her photo and was asking anyone who might be related to her to come forward. And so she has been reunited with her family members, but -- her relatives, but not with her parents and her brother. Both -- all of whom are still missing.

BALDWIN: They're missing, along with several hundred others. But when you were sitting here with me yesterday, you were reading some incredibly compelling text messages back and forth. One between a mother and her son. And you have an update. A positive update.

WALKER: It is a positive update, thankfully. And we showed you this text message from a son to the mother and this is what it read. I just want to remind you what it said. The son said - because he thought this was the last communication he was going to have with his mother.

BALDWIN: Right.

WALKER: Mom, in case I don't get to say this to you, I love you. And she says, why? Of course I love you, too, my son. Well, South Korean media is now reporting that this text was written by a Tanwan (ph) High School student. The name is Shin Yung Ching (ph). And, yes, he has been rescued. And he has been reunited with his mother.

BALDWIN: Thank goodness.

WALKER: So a lot of hope there and, you know, a lot of families who are waiting to get any answers. They're obviously hoping for a similar outcome as well.

BALDWIN: We're going to talk to some members of the U.S. Coast Guard later in the next two hours just about how you proceed in a rescue mission like this as they keep trying to get in there and they still have not been able to.

WALKER: Right.

BALDWIN: Amara Walker, thank you so much for coming back.

WALKER: Sure.

BALDWIN: Coming up here, Malaysian authorities apologized today to families of the passengers on Flight 370 after a technical glitch interrupt a video conference. But it wasn't enough for the families. Hear how they responded.

And as the search for that 777 continues here, so many are wondering, is it time to regroup, reset, recalibrate this whole search? We will discuss that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)