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CNN NEWSROOM

The "Knockout Game"; Ryan O'Neal Sued Over Warhol Painting; Man Survives Car Wreck, Trapped With Dead Friend for Days; New Video of Actor's Car Crash; UC Santa Barbara Warns of Meningitis Outbreak; Vatican Discredits Pope-in-Disguise Internet Rumor

Aired December 3, 2013 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DON LEMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Can I say just something?

Knockout game, there's no denying the video. You can see the video there and you see that it's happening. Random acts of violence happen all the time.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: All the time. This is nothing new.

LEMON: And there's no concrete evidence that this is some phenomenon that is -- that there are teenagers marauding around the streets that are knocking people out.

I think it's confluence of videotape, cell phones, and this is all being all caught on tape now. Now, whether or not it is, police will determine that, but, so far, no police department has determined that there's any such thing as a knockout game.

RABBI GARY MOSKOWITZ, FORMER POLICE OFFICER: Well --

LEMON: And it's also been said that there are, yes, there have been Jewish people who have been targeted.

There have been white people who have been targeted. There have been black people.

Even the video that we're looking at now is in question, the one that we're looking at, the guy coming from behind.

BALDWIN: Yeah.

LEMON: Many people say that that was -- that's Europe. It's not even Philadelphia.

So, I don't know, but I know there is evidence that this has been happening since 1994, and all of a sudden, the videotape has now caught up with what's happened.

There's also a slap game in Europe, as well.

BALDWIN: There are all kind of things, but --

MOSKOWITZ: If I could mention --

BALDWIN: Please.

MOSKOWITZ: That actually it's been going on well before 1994. I was a police officer in 1982, and it was going on then. It's been going on for over a generation here.

In fact, it's not just a game. It's more of an initiation. A lot of times, a lot of gang members will hit other people here.

They have to get a certain amount to get involved and commit a crime. So, this way, they'll have influence in that gang.

By the way, it wasn't just against individuals or weaker people. When I was a young cop, they played "knockout the cop." I was physically under attack several times when I worked with youth games.

I was one of eight cops in the whole city, specializing with youth gangs and youth-at-risk. I worked directly out of high schools and was specially trained.

And I was attacked on several occasions because I was a police officer and they were prepared to get arrested just to win points.

LEMON: And they should be. It's awful. It's despicable. Any act of random violence, someone should be arrested.

There have been people with the so-called "knockout game" -- there was one guy who was shot because he messed with the wrong guy.

BALDWIN: Right.

LEMON: This guy was waiting on his daughter at the bus stop, and he had a gun, a license to carry, and he shot the kid. The kid is in jail. Luckily, he lived, but he was shot. There have been a number of those.

BALDWIN: How about -- gang aside, though, I want you to show us, as best you can how, if you are walking along, let's say you're the random person who is targeted, Don Lemon, and you have someone coming up from behind, and this person is going to sucker punch you, how do you defend yourself? Can you show us?

MOSKOWITZ: Yes. Let me just show -- explain one thing about -

LEMON: Come on. You can show me.

MOSKOWITZ: -- being aware. OK.

LEMON: Let's do it.

MOSKOWITZ: Sure, let's do it.

LEMON: Don't hurt me, though. This is not like the "anchor knockdown game."

MOSKOWITZ: The issue is being aware. When I walk down the street, even here, I was a police officer in Midtown for many years. I worked in the South Bronx.

BALDWIN: So much going on around.

MOSKOWITZ: Exactly. You have to -- when I walk, I don't just walk straight. Many people are doing the wrong thing. They are tied up to their cell phones, to their iPods. They're not focused.

Many of them are getting hit by cars. They're tripping on the sidewalk and they're getting assaulted here because they're not focused and paying attention.

When you walk on the street, it's very much like you're driving a car. You should be focused on your surroundings.

LEMON: So then what do you do? Like, if I -- if you are walking and I --

MOSKOWITZ: Watch. If I'm walking down the street, I don't just walk down the street, oblivious to everything. Every so often, I do a turn to track my peripheral vision here on both sides here.

LEMON: As we do in the city.

MOSKOWITZ: You have to.

LEMON: Right.

MOSKOWITZ: You have to. So, if you're walking by and you're attacking me from behind, let's say, and there are -- first of all, if you're attuned to people around you here, and as I'm walking and he throws that punch -

LEMON: So, which side? Does it matter?

MOSKOWITZ: I can redirect. And watch what I did. As he throws a punch, I'm redirecting his and throwing with the same thing.

If I want to continue, I can go here and just take him down, slowly. These are all physics tricks.

BALDWIN: Careful. This man has to be on television at 11:00 tonight.

LEMON: This is my livelihood right here.

MOSKOWITZ: If he punches with the other hand, I can -- and come around, and I can keep spinning around and take and now I put him in a shoulder lock, whereas his shoulder will separate here if I put more pressure on.

BALDWIN: Black belt rabbi. I mean, those are things you can do.

LEMON: But what if you are -- seriously, what if you're walking and you don't someone? There's nothing -- I mean --

BALDWIN: Too many people are buried in their phones.

MOSKOWITZ: No, we're not saying this is guaranteed. We're -- you're getting an advantage. The advantage is just to become aware.

And the second thing is, if you do get hit -- let's say -- throw a punch, (inaudible) in the face.

LEMON: Yeah.

MOSKOWITZ: Punch slowly.

LEMON: Yeah.

MOSKOWITZ: And I got hit. You're trained -- we're trained to absorb the punch, and to go with the flow and then come back in and take them down in some type of grappling.

When you grapple, then you can take people down.

LEMON: I'm going to start calling him Rabbi Kick-butt.

But here's the thing now.

BALDWIN: Final thought then we've got to go.

LEMON: Yeah, this is a final thought. You -- nothing is 100 percent foolproof.

MOSKOWITZ: Sure.

LEMON: We spoke to a woman who said she -- her five-year-old son was a victim of the "knockout game," getting out of a taxi.

She's paying the taxi driver. All of a sudden, she gets out to walk her son, falls, and she goes, What happened?

And by the time she's figured it out, the perpetrators were gone.

MOSKOWITZ: Right.

LEMON: She eventually caught up with them, according to her.

But as I said, it's not 100-percent foolproof, so -

MOSKOWITZ: No, but can I mention that -

LEMON: You have to be aware.

MOSKOWITZ: Sure. One of the things that have to be done is I'm involved with trying to promote some legislation here. I'm working with one of the state senators from New York -- his name's David Weber -- and then other people, also.

We are trying to get some laws passed, a new gang violence law. If someone is going to commit an assault and try to hurt somebody, because of that, they can be charged with an A-felony.

On top of that, we need (inaudible) classes, back in the public school system - LEMON: Right.

MOSKOWITZ: -- where they learn -

LEMON: I agree.

MOSKOWITZ: -- about the perception, communication, empathy skills and --

BALDWIN: Teach them young.

Rabbi Moskowitz, thank you so much.

LEMON: Careful, Brooke, because he may think you are coming after him.

BALDWIN: Don Lemon, thank you. And you're going to be talking about this, "THE 11TH HOUR," tonight, 11:00 Eastern.

LEMON: Right before "IN CASE YOU MISSED IT."

MOSKOWITZ: Right, thank you.

LEMON: Eleven o'clock. We'll be talking about that and concussions -

BALDWIN: And concussions.

LEMON: -- in the NFL. There's a big training clinic going on today in Kansas City.

BALDWIN: We'll tune in. Mr. Lemon, thank you very much.

LEMON: Appreciate it.

BALDWIN: And then, as Don mentioned, I'll be following Don at 11:30 Eastern, 8:30 Pacific, thank you very much, on "IN CASE YOU MISSED IT," ICYMI, with the day's best highlights.

The moments, in case you missed them, we'll have them for you tonight, so do not miss us this evening.

Coming up here, who is entitled to this Andy Warhol portrait of Farrah Fawcett? See it there, hanging above the bed? That photo hangs over Ryan O'Neal's bed, longtime boyfriend of hers.

But now the actor is being sued. We will tell you what he said in court.

Also, more on the violent death of Paul Walker. It is still a mystery what happened moments before that rare Porsche crashed.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Any Andy Warhol fans here? This battle over this Andy Warhol portrait of actress Farrah Fawcett is now being fought in an L.A. courtroom.

Fawcett, who died of cancer back in 2009, she left her art collection to her alma mater, University of Texas in Austin.

That university is accusing actor Ryan O'Neal, Fawcett's long-time boyfriend of stealing the portrait.

The 72-year-old actor took the witness stand, insisting that Warhol made two prints, one for Fawcett and one for him.

The painting was even seen in the reality show, "Ryan and Tatum -- The O'Neals," hanging, right there on the walls of O'Neal's bedroom right above the bed.

Let's talk about this, CNN legal analyst Sunny Hostin and Danny Cevallos.

So, Danny, you get to start first. Do you think there is any chance he's going to get this painting, the portrait?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Basically, if Farrah Fawcett owned the painting beforehand, the trust is very clear. All of her artwork goes to the University of Texas.

So, for Ryan O'Neal to win, this is what he has to convince a jury -

BALDWIN: OK.

CEVALLOS: -- that I had this piece of art that was originally Farrah's, then it was mine. Then when she walked in on me with another woman, I asked her to hold it for me.

She displayed it in her condo and basically acted as if she owned it. Really, if she displayed -- she didn't package it up and put it in the attic. If he says she held it, that's a pretty high road. That's going to be a pretty high bar to convince a jury.

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I would like to discuss --

BALDWIN: Go there. Go there.

HOSTIN: The piece I would like to discuss is that the reason Farrah took it back is because she found him in bed with a 25-year-old.

And that 25-year-old said she felt uncomfortable with Farrah looking at her while she was sleeping in Ryan O'Neal's bed.

And, so, Ryan O'Neal, allegedly, then gives the painting back to Farrah. Guess what? The law of equity is in my mind. He does not get to keep the painting, which he relinquished so that he could bed the 25-year-old. It's just -- it's just so -

(CROSSTALK)

HOSTIN: I don't care if it's not legal, it's not right.

BALDWIN: This is not going back to Mr. O'Neal is what I'm hearing from -- HOSTIN: That's "Sunny's Law."

BALDWIN: OK, "Sunny's Law."

CEVALLOS: Be afraid.

HOSTIN: Do you agree?

CEVALLOS: Be very afraid of "Sunny's Law."

BALDWIN: OK, thank you two very much, Danny Cevallos and Sunny Hostin. Thank you very much.

And, coming once again -- forgive me.

All right, we are getting some new surveillance video of actor Paul Walker, famous for the "Fast & Furious" franchise, killed in this horrendous car accident over the weekend.

We are getting new surveillance video of him, coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Imagine this. A car crashes. The passenger is trapped, no food, no water for nearly a week.

But that is actually not the worst of what this one man had to endure, because he was entangled in the steering wheel with the driver of this car, his friend, dead beneath him.

And when you hear this survivor tell his story, you know every glass this man sees in life is always half full.

Photojournalist Chris Shalene (ph) from Denver affiliate KUSA put together this piece through the words of Richard Koester and his family.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's just hard. Just hard. It's been rough.

RICHARD KOESTER, CAR CRASH SURVIVOR: I don't remember too much.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's a second chance worth? That's a question that I guess only God can answer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He is a miracle.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rick got one.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's my son.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His best friend.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have always been pretty close.

KOESTER: Four in the afternoon when we left to go wherever --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If I call Rick and don't get a call back in 24 hours, there's an issue.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We knew that he was missing because he left his van and his dog.

KOESTER: We flew through a median to the other side of the road and off a 30-foot cliff.

Six days, six nights, no food, no water, I was laying on top of my dead friend.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I knew he wasn't dead. I just could feel him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a very big god, and I knew He was going to come back to us.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One person had severe injuries. And I knew that was my son.

KOESTER: I lost both legs. I lost the middle two fingers, broke my face.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Been a nightmare.

KOESTER: I heard from doctors that I should have been dead multiple times.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're always going to celebrate that day as a second birthday. I see a miracle.

KOESTER: There's one reasonable explanation, and that God has a plan for me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: God has given us a second chance and I'm not going blow it.

KOESTER: I've got a lot to be thankful for.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Has such a good personality and good nature.

KOESTER: I can still play with my two wonderful kids. I'm still alive. I'll never have to buy shoes again.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was seconds away from dying.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He is a miracle.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Only miracle.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Miracles do happen, and my brother is proof.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He wasn't supposed to be here. You know? It's got to be a miracle.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: KUSA reports Custer's friend who was driving suffered some kind of medical problem before he crashed the truck.

And, now, just in, this is new surveillance video. It shows the scene where actor Paul Walker died in that violent car wreck over the weekend.

Investigators, we now know, ruling out drag racing, but what happened moments before the crash is still a mystery.

Alan Duke joins me live, and, Alan, walk me through this video.

ALAN DUKE, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: What we are finding out from the video, this camera that was posted on a building just across the street from where the crash happened, you don't actually see the crash. You don't see the car.

But you see that? The light post falling and the tree and then you see this debris go.

All right, count 60 seconds from that point. And it's not until there that you see any significant smoke. There's a wisp of smoke there, but I'm not sure how this is edited, but the smoke is very light for 60 seconds.

What that suggests is that the fire did not become a raging fire for about a minute, which would mean that the two occupants in the vehicle would have had 60 seconds to get out, if they could have.

We don't know what happened. Nobody saw what they were trying to do at that time.

But it was a full 60 seconds until what you see now, the -

BALDWIN: Full, black smoke.

DUKE: -- heavier smoke going.

Right. I believe this is edited. Correct me if I'm wrong. But if we saw --

BALDWIN: It is edited. I'm hearing in my ear from the control room. Yes, Alan Duke, it's edited.

So you're telling me you saw the raw, and 60 seconds after this light pole goes down, that's when the smoke begins, correct?

DUKE: Having been there that evening and seeing the scene and standing, actually, right at the hedges looking down as the coroner pulled the bodies from the wreckage, I can tell you the significance is the 60 seconds that you don't see smoke.

Because what was happening then, that is the horror that Paul Walker and Roger Rodas were suffering.

They were, at that time -- all right, let's watch it again. The light post, you see, just goes down. That is real-time there.

Now, again, the edited, that smoke, that edit leaves out a 60-second gap there. If we see the 60 seconds, we see horror below those hedges, because those men, obviously, would have been trying to get out, and nobody was there outside to help them.

It wasn't until the flames were rising and the smoke was above those hedges that you're looking at now, about two minutes later, that anyone arrived with a fire extinguisher or to try to help them.

We've heard of heroic efforts to try to pull the men out, but it was too late, because their friends were at the charity event at Rodas' car shop about 500 yards away when they heard the crash.

They rushed up. It was a couple or three minutes before they got there. By the time they got there, that's what the smoke looked like, right there.

But it's that lonely 60 seconds of no smoke, no fire, in that Porsche Carrera GT when those men were inside that vehicle, obviously unable to get out.

We'll hear this afternoon from the coroner.

Sorry, I was going to tell you that we'll get preliminary autopsy results, perhaps within a couple hours from the coroner. Talked to the coroner investigator short time ago, we should have a positive identification.

Now, everything is presumed that it was Roger Rodas and Paul Walker in the car. And it's also presumed, based on witness statements, that Rodas was behind the wheel, because that's how they were when they left the shop, minutes earlier.

However, what we don't really know, did they switch seats? Was Walker driving? We don't have any reason to believe that they did, but we don't know if they didn't.

So, the coroner will be able to verify that for us, this afternoon.

BALDWIN: And, also, in fact, if they survived the collision to be able to try to get out for those 60, long seconds before we see the giant plume of smoke.

Alan Duke, thank you so much for getting us this new surveillance video. Just horrific images to watch. Thank you, and we will take a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Health officials in Santa Barbara, California, could have a major outbreak on their hands.

Four students at the University of California have been diagnosed now with a disease that causes meningitis. One patient actually had to have his feet amputated, and as many as 500 people may have been exposed.

CNN's Paul Vercammen joins me now from Santa Barbara with a little bit more.

And, Paul, how concerned are officials about this?

PAUL VERCAMMEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, they are extremely concerned, and they're attacking this outbreak aggressively, even telling some of the sororities and fraternities clustered behind me not to sponsor any parties at this time.

They say it's like a crime investigation, and the suspect bacteria, the investigators, nurses, county health officials, they're actively interviewing students, seeing who may have had close contact with any of the four meningitis patients.

Let's look at a statement from the university and see what they are telling students at this time.

They say that Santa Barbara County Public Health is strongly recommending that student organizations refrain from participating in social events" -- translation, parties -- "that involve close contact, alcohol, and/or smoking, and where eating utensils and cups or glasses may be shared.

"All the existing cases appear to have had a close personal contact."

So far, 500 students have been given a powerful antibiotic in pill form to help guard against meningitis, and another 700 students, Brooke, are expected to receive these pills tomorrow.

BALDWIN: Paul Vercammen, thank you very much, in Santa Barbara.

And before I go here, let's talk about Pope Francis. We know he's making waves for being unconventional, often shunned the pomp and the ceremony. And he's earned a reputation as a "pope of the people."

So it seemed totally believable when this report came out that indicated that the pope was sneaking out of the Vatican, late at night, dressed as a priest to minister Rome's homeless population.

So Daniel Burke, to you I go, our co-editor of CNN's Belief Blog on CNN.com. And we loved this story and maybe we loved it a little too much because now the Vatican is saying the pope is not sneaking out, right?

DANIEL BURKE, CNN BELIEF BLOG: That's right. I'm sorry, Brooke, it's one of those stories that's too good to be true.

But the Vatican says there are very real concerns for why the pope isn't doing this. You have to remember that he's not only head of the Roman Catholic Church, he's also a sovereign of state, Vatican City.

So, when he leaves Vatican City, even if it's just to go next door to Rome, there are all kinds of protocols and security measures they have to go through. They have to inform the Italian government. So, it's just impractical for him to do this, but lots of people want to believe it. I see it all over the Internet today. Unfortunately, it's just not true.

BALDWIN: I don't really know if Pope Francis could roll around incognito, just a guess.

But I do, in reading about this and in talking to you today, I am hearing the pope worked as a bouncer in his younger years? Is that really true?

BURKE: That is true. That one's true.

So he was -- it's hard to believe, right? So he was talking to a church group in Italy, earlier this week, and he told a little bit about his early career. It was a way of relating to the people in this parish, which is kind of a working class parish.

And he mentioned that, in Argentina, he was once a nightclub bouncer. His father worked for the railroad in Argentina. He didn't come from a family with lots of money.

So that's one of the things he did when he was putting himself through school to study to become a priest.

And what's funny now is that you can imagine Pope Francis being the worst bouncer in the world. I mean, judging by his --

BALDWIN: He'd let everyone in. Come on in the nightclub.

BURKE: Right. And he'll probably buy them a drink once they get there. That's way he's been as pope.

BALDWIN: It's a wonderful little tidbit to learn of his life, his younger years back in Argentina.

Daniel Burke, thank you so much for joining me from the CNN Belief Blog.

I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for being with me here in New York. I'm back on TV tonight 11:30 Eastern, 8:30 Pacific.

"IN CASE YOU MISSED IT" is the name of the new show. I will see you tonight.

In the meantime, let's go to Washington. "THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER" starts right now.