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Mayor: New Buildings Must Have Safe Rooms; Teacher: "I Can't Describe It"; IRS Official About To Testify; Suspect Dead In Shootout With FBI; Lerner Pleads Fifth At House Hearing

Aired May 22, 2013 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Thank you so much for being with me. I'm Carol Costello in Atlanta. We're still awaiting Lois Lerner's testimony before a House Oversight Committee. She's the IRS official in charge of the unit that oversaw tax exempt status. She is expected to plead the fifth. Once she begins her testimony, we'll bring you back to the Hill.

But first, we must go to Moore, Oklahoma, because we found out some new information -- actually, our Nick Valencia found out some new information from the mayor of Moore. So Nick, what did he tell you?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Carol, the mayor of Moore, Glenn Lewis, spoke exclusively to CNN in an off-camera interview and he told us as soon as the cleanup process is complete, his plan is to try to pass a city ordinance that would require all new city housing developments in the city of Moore to have either a safe room or a shelter.

Now coincidentally Glenn Lewis was also the mayor of Moore in 1999 when that EF-5 tornado shredded through Moore, devastated the community. In fact, he put new building codes into place in 1999. Those homes, they weathered the storm this time around.

But the community that was ravaged on Monday, it was too old. It had already been built. There were no new housing codes. So that sort of explains a little bit about why those homes were flattened and levelled -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Nick Valencia, reporting live, thanks so much.

We want to talk a little bit more about Briarwood Elementary School because we know that school's levelled. You heard Nick mention that. It didn't have one of those safe rooms. Amazingly, no one was killed in that school. And one of the big reasons why, those brave teachers and how they protected their students. Ed Lavandera has one teacher's incredible story.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Some of the pictures we've seen just after the tornado struck Briarwood Elementary School are some of the most poignant and powerful images we've seen coming out of the storm. Now, one of the teachers who survived that hit tells us what was like.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LAVANDERA (voice-over): These are the frantic moments after the tornado struck Briarwood Elementary School in Moore, Oklahoma. Chaos instantly wrapped in the comforting arms of parents and teachers. Snapshots that captured the emotion, words can't fully do justice. This is where we find Tammy Glasgow and her second grade class.

TAMMY GLASGOW, BRIARWOOD ELEMENTARY TEACHER: I can't even describe what was going through my head. I was numb.

LAVANDERA: As the tornado sirens blared and teachers moved students to safe positions, Tammy stepped outside.

(on camera): This is what you saw?

GLASGOW: Yes, right before we went in.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): She snapped this picture of the twister barrelling right at her classroom. Tammy Glasgow raced inside and crammed about 20 students into a closet and bathroom.

(on camera): What do you tell a bunch of second grade little kids at that moment?

GLASGOW: Before I shut the doors. Bathrooms have doors. I said I'm going to shut the doors I said I love you. The boys looked at me strange, walked into the girls, I said, I love you, they said, I love you back. I just told them to pray. That's what we did in the closet, is pray.

LAVANDERA: Do you think that they grasped what was going to happen?

GLASGOW: I'm not really sure. They were all singing the national anthem. We were about to have a program in two days. We were going to perform the national anthem so they were practicing. I mean, they were just trying to forget what was actually happening.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): For Tammy, the horror seemed to never end.

GLASGOW: I just assumed that they would be quick, but it just stayed and stayed, and stuff was falling on us. We had books over our heads and I looked -- glanced up once and you could just see it, it was just like brown, huge, never ending. Just all the way up to the heavens and then I got back down, a cinder block fell on the back of my neck.

LAVANDERA (on camera): The only section of the school left somewhat intact is that girls and boys bathroom. It was there at the very last second where a couple of these teachers, Tammy, included, decided to move the students in there at that very last second. Then everything erupted. The walls started caving in.

This car blown into the side of the wall, if there had been students on the other side, it could have been devastating. But at the very last second, those teachers decided to move the students into that area and that's what saved their lives. (voice-over): Despite what you see here, everybody at the school survived the tornado strike. There were lots of tears, but as Tammy says, the students were brave.

GLASGOW: I mean, they were calm, surprisingly very calm.

LAVANDERA (on camera): Why do you think that is?

GLASGOW: I think they felt safe. I mean, we did our best to take care of them to make them feel loved and secure.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): As we talked, she found a muddy paper that brought tears to her eyes.

(on camera): Was that an end of the year award?

GLASGOW: Yes, begin --

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: And that certificate will be given to that little boy. We want to take you back to Capitol Hill now because Lois Lerner has been sworn in and congressmen are about to pose questions about what she knew about the controversies within the IRS. Let's listen.

(BEGIN LIVE FEED)

REP. DARRELL ISSA (R), CHAIRMAN, HOUSE OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE: -- if you'd like to use the time to either add to or to summarize, that could be very helpful for the members. Mr. George. You're up first. Welcome.

MR. GEORGE: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman Issa, ranking members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to discuss the recent report concerning the Internal Revenue Services' treatment of groups that apply for tax exempt status. As you noted and as you are aware, Mr. Chairman, our audit was initiated based on concerns that you expressed due to taxpayer allegations that they were subjected to unfair treatment by the IRS.

The three allegations considered during our review were proven true. The IRS targeted specific groups applying for tax exempt status. It delays the processing of these group's applications and requested unnecessary information, as well as subjected these groups to special scrutiny.

It is important to note that the IRS conducted an audit that -- rather, that we conducted an audit of the IRS, and not an investigation. Pursuant to the inspector general act, Ticter is authorized to conduct audit as well as investigations, and our oversight of IRS programs and operations. Audits are generally --

(END LIVE FEED)

COSTELLO: All right, we're going jump out of this because we thought that Ms. Lerner is going to testify, but apparently, Mr. George, the inspector general from the Treasury Department is going to read a bit of his report first. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be back with much more in the NEWSROOM.

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COSTELLO: It's 12 minutes past the hour. We'll have more of our special coverage from Oklahoma in just a moment. But first, a man shot dead by the FBI last night in Orlando was being investigated for a possible connection to the Boston marathon bombing suspects.

I spoke last hour with CNN's national correspondent Susan Candiotti who is following the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): It's unclear any links have been made, but according to the law enforcement official, that's what the FBI was looking at. They learned early on, through investigative leads, that led them to this man in Orlando because they said, they had information that he knew the Tsarnaev brothers, both of them, Tamerlan and Dzhokhar.

That's why they've been taking a look at them for a good month now after the bombing. What led to the shooting, we're not sure, other than to say that a source tells that you say the FBI shot this man in self-defense. So that's what's being looked at now, and as part of what the FBI protocol, a special team is going to Orlando today to begin investigating what led to the shooting.

COSTELLO: Susan, was the man killed Chechen?

CANDIOTTI: Yes, that is another link that apparently, not only did this man know the Tsarnaev brothers, but he was also from Chechnya, the same general region where the Tsarnaev brothers had come from. Now, you heard from a friend earlier today who said that his friend -- who was shot, knew nothing about any bombing details, anything at all, and acknowledged that his friend had been followed for about a month.

COSTELLO: There were some reports of a local affiliate that this man and another man were going to leave the country, is that true from what you know from your sources?

CANDIOTTI: It's something that I am looking into. That is the friend who is putting out that information. I'm told that the person who was shot was a legal resident of the United States and had been living here since about 2008 or so and used to live in Boston and used to live in Boston that is key, because, of course, that's where the Tsarnaev family had lived.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: All right, on to other news right now. As soon as next month, a full Senate is expected -- all right, we're going to go back to that Oversight Committee hearing on the Hill, as you know, Lois Lerner, an IRS official, is now testifying.

(BEGIN LIVE FEED)

LOIS LERNER, IRS DIRECTOR OF NON-EXEMPT ORGANIZATIONS: Good morning, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. My name is Lois Lerner and I'm the director of Exempt Organizations at the Internal Revenue Service. I have been a government employee for over 34 years. I initially practiced law at the Department of Justice and later at the Federal Election Commission.

In 2001, I became -- I moved to the IRS to work in the Exempt Organizations Office. In 2006, I was promoted to be the director of that office. Exempt Organizations oversees about 1.6 million tax exempt organizations and processes over 60,000 applications for tax exemption every year.

As director, I'm responsible for about 900 employees nationwide and administer a budget of almost $100 million. My professional career has been devoted to fulfilling responsibilities of the agencies for which I have worked and I'm very proud of the work I have done in government.

On May 14th, the treasury inspector general released a report, finding that the exempt organizations field office in Cincinnati, Ohio, used inappropriate criteria to identify for further review, applications from organizations that plan to engage in political activity, which may mean that they did not qualify for tax exemption.

On that same day, the Department of Justice launched an investigation into the matters described in the inspector general's report. In addition, members of this in the have accused me of providing false information when I responded to questions about the IRS processing of applications for tax exemption.

I have not done anything wrong. I have not broken any laws. I have not violated any IRS rules or regulations, and I have not provided false information to this or any other congressional committee. And while I would very much like to answer the committee's questions today, I've been advised by my counsel to assert my constitutional right not to testify related to the subject matter of this hearing.

After very careful consideration, I've decided to follow my counsel's advice and not testify or answer any of the questions today. Because I'm asserting my right not to testify, I know that some people will assume that I've done something wrong. I have not. One of the basic functions of the Fifth Amendment is to protect innocent individuals, and that is the protection I'm invoking today. Thank you.

ISSA: Thank you for your testimony. Miss Lerner, earlier, the ranking member made me aware of a response that we have that is purported to come from you in regards to the I.G. asked during this investigation. Can we have you authenticate simply the questions and answers previously given to the inspector general?

LERNER: I don't know what that is. I'd have to look at it.

ISSA: OK. Would you please make it available to the witness?

LERNER: This appears to be my response.

ISSA: So it's testimony that, as far as your recollection, that is your response?

LERNER: That's correct.

ISSA: Miss Lerner, the topic of today's hearing is the IRS improper targeting of certain groups for additional scrutiny regarding their application for tax exempt status. As director of Exempt Organizations of the tax exempt and government entities division of the IRS, you were uniquely positioned to provide testimony to help this committee better understand how and why the IRS targeted these groups.

To that end, I must ask you to reconsider, particularly in light of the fact that you have given not once, but twice testimony before this committee under oath this morning. You have made an opening statement, in which you made assertions of your innocence, assertions you did nothing wrong, assertions you broke no laws or rules.

Additionally, you have authenticated earlier answers to the IG. At this point, I believe you have not asserted your rights, but in fact have effectively waived your rights. Would you please seek counsel for further guidance of this matter while we wait?

LERNER: I will not answer any questions or testify about the subject matter of this committee's meeting.

ISSA: We will take your refusal as a refusal to testify. The witness and counsel are dismissed. The gentleman will please wait.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Issa, Mr. Cummings just said we should run this like a courtroom, and I agree with him. She just testified she just waived her Fifth Amendment right to privilege. You don't get to tell your side of the story and then not be subjected to cross- examination. That's not the way it works. She waived her right of Fifth Amendment privilege by issuing an opening stating, she ought to stand here and answer our questions.

REP. ELIJAH CUMMINGS (D), MARYLAND: Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman.

ISSA: Mr. Cummings.

CUMMINGS: First of all, with all due respect for my good friend, Mr. Gowdy, I said I'd like to see it run like a federal court. Unfortunately, this is not a federal court, and she does have a right, and we have to adhere to that.

ISSA: Thank you. We'll pause for a moment.

COSTELLO: All right, you can see a rather contentious hearing taking place on Capitol Hill. Lois Lerner, she was the IRS official who oversaw the unit that singled conservatives. She sat down and she empathically said I have done nothing wrong. I have not provided any false information to this Congress. And then the chair, Congressman Issa dismissed her and other congressman called her back. Let's listen to more.

LERNER: -- today.

ISSA: Miss Lerner, would you be willing to answer questions specifically related to the earlier statements made under oath before this committee?

LERNER: I decline to answer that question for the reasons I've already given.

ISSA: For this reason, I have no choice but to excuse the witness, subject to recall, after we seek specific counsel on questions of whether or not the constitutional right of the Fifth Amendment has been properly waived. Notwithstanding that and the Department of Justice as to whether or not limited or use of immunity could be negotiated, the witness and counsel are dismissed. The clerk will please rearrange the seating.

For all the members on both sides of the dais, I think it's important that we take a moment, though I speak for Mr. Cummings and myself. This is a committee that is investigating, more than anything, the ultimate right of free speech and the first amendment.

So, as we go on with the rest of this hearing, I would admonish all of us to remember that it's not the first amendment or the second amendment or the fifth amendment or the tenth amendment in a vacuum. We have to respect them all. The gentle lady who has departed was entitled to assert her fifth amendment.

Although there are some questions about how it was done, there can be no question that we have to respect it. Additionally, that her assertion is not to be viewed or used during this hearing to make any determination, plus or minus, as to actions that were taken.

We have the inspector general with us today. We have other fact witnesses and this committee has more than ten additional witnesses that will be called either to hearings or to interviews already on the schedule. I believe that this committee has a long history of very few, during my tenure of 12 years, of these occasions --

(END LIVE FEED)

COSTELLO: All right, we're going to step away from this dramatic doings on Capitol Hill and bring back Dana Bash, our chief congressional correspondent and our political analyst Gloria Borger. Can you believe it? Lois Lerner sits down. She gives a brief statement saying that she did nothing wrong and then she says after consulting with my attorney and thinking about it, I have to invoke my Fifth Amendment rights.

Darrell Issa, the chair, moved to dismiss Miss Lerner and her attorney and then the South Carolina Republican, Congressman Trey Gowdy said wait a minute. Wait a minute. She read a statement. We get to ask her question and then you heard Darrell Issa's response. Did you expect it to go like this, Dana? DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, we didn't know what to expect, sources on the committee said that they were going to take the cues from Lerner to see how she actually she responded, how she chose to invoke her Fifth Amendment rights, which of course, she ultimately did.

I should say just to give a little context to our viewers, Trey Goudy, who raised objections, was a prosecutor for years and years and years. His first job in politics is this, being a member of Congress after being a prosecutor. That's where he's coming from there.

The other thing we should tell our viewers, other people who are testifying from the IRS came voluntarily. She was subpoenaed. In this particular committee, the chair has a pretty big power to issue subpoenas when he feels it's necessary. He ultimately did so with Lerner because he did not think she was going to come voluntarily.

But you know, it was clear that Lois Lerner is a name that nobody knew about ten days ago, but she is a name that you and I and Gloria and others have uttered. Her name has been in the front pages of many newspapers, on the internet. So she is somebody who is a name and a face.

From her perspective, maybe the villain in this scandal, and she wanted to, in her own words, even before she invoked that right, that constitutional right, she has. Get at her story and change the narrative just slightly to have that headline with that one sound bite that was very carefully crafted, "I did not do anything wrong."

COSTELLO: And it's important to note, if she's found guilty of lying to Congress, she could go to jail, is that correct?

GLORIA BORDER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Sure. And there's a criminal investigation pending as she pointed out that the Department of Justice is now investigating all of this. And so, you know, given the fact that she is facing some criminal liability here, it's really not a surprise that she decided to invoke the Fifth.

She did, as Dana pointed out, make the point that she did nothing wrong. And, of course, she didn't lie to members of Congress. You know, there's a question that Darrell Issa raised, a question of immunity in exchange for testimony. I mean, we just don't know -- we don't know where this path will lead.

But for now, today, you're not going to hear from her. You're going to hear from the inspector general from the top official at the Treasury Department, but not from Miss Lerner.

COSTELLO: It's just interesting to see the political ramifications of this because I'm sure the blogs will go crazy with just the dramatic scene in the committee room, Dana, between Republicans, the Chairman Darrell Issa and Representative Gowdy.

BASH: Absolutely, but I think it's also noteworthy what you heard Darrell Issa say at the end there, he wanted to take a moment and say that people should not read into this, that she is guilty or innocent. And that the whole heart of this investigation, from this point of view, is to defend people's first amendment.

Well, people have the right to invoke a Fifth Amendment right. That she should be given that right. So he sort of took a step back and did that in a way that was intentionally nonpartisan and that was no accident.

Other thing I should point out, with regard to her defensiveness, the fact that she doesn't want to testify, we talked there was bipartisan outrage about any political group being potentially targeted. In this case we know was targeted.

Lois Lerner is somebody who has actually been the subject of scorn from Democrats as well. We've hurt many Democrats say before hearing from her, she should be fired. Never mind going to jail, she should be fired.

When you have Democrats calling for a resignation, never mind Republicans in an Obama administration you know you're going before a tough going before a committee like this.

COSTELLO: All right, Dana Bash, Gloria Borger, thanks so much. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be back with much more in the NEWSROOM.

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