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CNN NEWSROOM

Pope Benedict XVI Says Farewell.

Aired February 28, 2013 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MSGR. KEVIN IRWIN, PROFESSOR OF THEOLOGY, CATHOLIC UNIVERSITY: I know when John XXIII was fitted, he was too big and they had to let the seam out in the back, and they held it together with pins, which is fine. But they just put a simple white alb on him and threw him out, over his black sweater and there he was.

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: And it wasn't a surprise that he was the choice in that time.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Exactly. So why weren't they more ready for that?

BURNETT: He was the front runner.

CUOMO: A mystery.

IRWIN: But there was some talk they were going to dump those tailors after that, and they were there for centuries, but they didn't dump them.

CUOMO: We'll get Becky ready. She's outside Castel Gandolfo because obviously the motorcade, full of security, because he's the head of state, which he still is, Pope Benedict, moving toward Castel Gandolfo.

So let's see what the mood is like on the ground there, those who await him.

Becky, how is it there now?

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN ANCHOR: It's quite an atmosphere here. The helicopter that delivered the pope and a number of his staff now just taking off to go back to Rome above me. And we are looking at pictures of a five-car convoy with one outrider, bringing Pope Benedict from the helicopter up to here, Castel Gandolfo. It's about a two kilometer drive. He'll arrive here and almost immediately come to this window here, where there are 10,000 people, almost everybody who lives in this town, are waiting what is an honored guest for the next few months. You can hear the helicopter just above me now. Quite an atmosphere.

They have been praying the rosary for some time here and it's been a very quiet and contemplative mood. But now people beginning to make a little bit of noise as they anticipate the arrival, as I say, there at the window of Pope Benedict XVI. He is still called that, of course, until 8:00 tonight when these doors behind me will close, when the Swiss Guard will abandon their position and he will become Benedict, his holiness. That will be a signal that he is now a retired pope, the first to retire in 600 years.

(APPLAUSE)

ANDERSON: Cheers for the helicopter there. I'm not sure it's exactly the same one. I can show you the shot.

Can we see that?

Show you the shot. It may have been the accompanying helicopter. There was the Italian air force were accompanying the pope and actually getting the video that we've been watching for the world's eyes. But there you go.

CUOMO: Becky, here's the pope now?

(CROSSTALK)

ANDERSON: Can you hear me?

CUOMO: That's right. I can hear you, Becky.

The pope has gotten out of his car, he's walking in now. Another major part of the moment here, moving under his own power into Castel Gandolfo. That is, as we should know by now, the summer residence for the pope. Massive place. Massive building, but also massive place. 110 acres.

What we're waiting for now is he's going to go in, get situated, greet the staff there and he will make an appearance out on that little terrace that they have prepared for him to come out and wave to people there.

BURNETT: And his benediction, his goodbye.

CUOMO: Yes. And all these people gathered.

Interestingly, Becky said earlier on, she estimated close to 10,000 people there waiting. The population of the place is not 10,000.

BURNETT: No, 9,000 or something like that.

CUOMO: So all it can hold and then some.

BURNETT: Yes.

CUOMO: So you have all it can hold and then some.

BURNETT: And they would thought they would have about 7,000. I don't know where they derived that number but obviously even more people than they thought are there waiting for him.

As Chris has said, I believe, I don't know what language that was --

CUOMO: I think it's German. BURNETT: German? But it said thank you. As Chris said, so many signs that we have seen in every language have said thank you.

And that's where he's going to come out on the balcony, which for me is one of the -- whether it's -- obviously, we've never seen this before here, but when you see it in Rome, that's the special moment when you hear the roar of the crowd and then the silence.

CUOMO: You know, it's interesting. People can watch this moment and say, I don't care, I'm not a Catholic or I don't like what the church has done. All I'm saying is this, as a reporter and an observer of the world around us, name another moment that we have witnessed of this caliber and kind? And by that, I mean nothing -- everything areligious. Let's take religion out of it. A potentate of a huge body, who has ceded power voluntarily, absent any real stress or pressure other than what he says defines himself physically and his motivations -- you can search history. I cannot think of one and I actually -- this is not a rhetorical question. I have been looking for a week and a half now. Come on Twitter and come get me. I'm Chris Cuomo. And let me know what is.

Melinda, some perspective?

MELINDA HENNEBERGER, COLUMNIST, SHE THE PEOPLE: Absolutely. And what you said before, this didn't happen 600 years ago. This is all new. 600 years ago there were two popes and one of them finally threw in the towel. This situation has actually never happened in the history of the church and I quite agree.

CUOMO: That sign said your humility has moved me. It was very great. Obviously, a referral of an Italian to his stepping down. Again, a nod to what is so unusual about this.

An interesting thing to note. Why is he at Castel Gandolfo? Because he wants another weekend before the other guy comes in? No. He's there because he wants to absent himself from the conclave. This is an outward gesture that he is not part of this. Important, important.

(CROSSTALK)

HENNEBERGER: They want to make sure that other cardinals can't come or have the perception that they would be coming to talk to him or seek his advice in any sort of way, right?

FATHER EDWARD BECK, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Absolutely. And what he said this morning to the cardinals was that he would be praying in a particular way for them. And hearing him refer to his own successor and the next pope sitting in the room was a poignant moment. But that he was going to withdraw from the scene so that there would be no impression, as you say, that he would possibly be involved.

BURNETT: When you say pray in a particular way, do we know what that means?

BECK: Well, the whole church at this point is invited to be praying for the new pope. Beginning in -- at 2:00 p.m. eastern time, we'll no longer mention Pope Benedict's name during mass other than to pray for him in his retirement. But in the place we normally pray for the pope at mass, during the Eucharistic prayer, we'll now skip that part and we won't be praying for the pope until a new pope is elected.

But the church is -- church throughout the world is encouraged to pray now for the cardinals as they prepare to elect a new pope.

BURNETT: So you're going to put that into the service, into mass?

BECK: Yes, you're going to have to.

BURNETT: Wow.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: You mean, you're going to want to.

BECK: Of course.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: As grand as this is looking at this, Eric Marapodi (ph), the CNN Belief blog person that we have --

BURNETT: Yes. Yes.

CUOMO: -- good old Eric, who we rely on, he wrote a wonderful article on our CNN blog about the residence that's being prepared. We've heard about it as a monastery, a convent. It's the old gardener's house. You think of something so grand that he's moving into that they're getting ready.

(CROSSTALK)

BURNETT: -- where he goes after this.

CUOMO: Where he goes after this.

BURNETT: Right.

CUOMO: While he's staying here, it's getting readied. I thought it was going to be a big monastery and this lush thing. Gardener's house that some of the nuns use. It has some small gardens. But it's not a palatial edifice at all.

HENNEBERGER: I wouldn't be surprised if he changes his mind about that. I just wonder what that's going to be like to have the pope and the pope emeritus so close. Not that I believe in any way that Benedict, as I said before, would try to still exercise any authority over this pope. Because I think he's quite happy not to do that. But I do think for others it might be so awkward that I'm not sure -- I'm not -- I wouldn't be surprised if they thought again about that.

BURNETT: So as we talk about the future of the church, I want to bring in two people as we watch the pope here. Is he coming to the actual balcony right now? He may be, so I don't want to do that and have to interrupt. It looks like he may be approaching the balcony too.

Yes, he is. No?

CUOMO: He's approaching one very lucky photographer.

(LAUGHTER)

All right, here he is.

HENNEBERGER: And there he is. There he is.

BECK: That was the papal photographer. I guess who he'll only have another two hours.

(CHEERING)

POPE BENEDICT XVI: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

(CHEERING)

POPE BENEDICT XVI: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

(CHEERING)

(CHANTING)

POPE BENEDICT XVI (through translation): Dear friends, I am happy to enjoy your sympathy. I give thanks for your friendship and for your affection.

(CHEERING)

POPE BENEDICT XVI (through translation): You do know that this is a different day for me than earlier days. I am no longer the pope, but I'm still in the church. I'm just a pilgrim who is starting the last part of his pilgrimage on this earth.

(CHEERING)

POPE BENEDICT XVI (through translation): And with all my heart and prayer and love and with my thoughts and strengths, I would like to work for the common good and the good of the church and mankind. And I feel very much supported by your sympathy. We'll go together ahead with the lord for the good of the church and the world.

(CHEERING)

POPE BENEDICT XVI (through translation): Thank you all very much.

(CHEERING)

POPE BENEDICT XVI (through translation): So accept my blessing. May God bless you, in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Thank you all and good night. Thank you all. (CHEERING)

BURNETT: And I think we should say this could be the final time that we will ever see him in public again. He is choosing a life of monasticism so this could be the last time we ever see the pope.

I thought that was very emotional when he said, "I'm a pilgrim, just starting the last part of my pilgrimage on this earth, but a pilgrim like everyone else now."

CUOMO: Melinda, you've been a student of him. To me it seemed emotive for him.

HENNEBERGER: Right, very much so. Yes, it's a little bit overwhelming I'm sure for everyone in the square too. Look at their faces as he's withdrawing.

It was interesting when he said a day or two ago that he was really, you know, giving up his privacy for the papacy forever and that he still would not be a private person, even in his retirement. And I felt that there was perhaps some regret in that, that he feels that, even in a life of prayer, he's never going to get the privacy back that he enjoyed before becoming pope.

BURNETT: I don't think that he can be completely removed.

HENNEBERGER: Right. And I think he will be seen out -- I don't want to say out and about. But you will see him in Rome.

(CROSSTALK)

BURNETT: But you do think we'll see him?

HENNEBERGER: Yes.

CUOMO: Not right away, I don't think. But I'm wondering will the new pope cross the courtyard and consult with him about some things, plain privately? I would think he would --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: I don't know why he wouldn't.

BURNETT: Would that be all right with you as a member of the church?

(CROSSTALK)

BECK: Sure. Why not use the wealth of that experience and that intellect to help you.

BURNETT: Right.

CUOMO: We're looking here. This is a still photo, if you want to bring it back up. That was his final wave to those who are in the Vatican courtyard before he got on the helicopter. This was his goodbye to Rome. Pope Benedict XVI. HENNEBERGER: And you know it is amazing that there is a papal photographer. I believe his name is Fernando Sportzen (ph). He's been with him for years and with him in every single moment. Every time he meets a head of state, like Barack Obama, he was there, whether it be the cardinals, and he was there for those last moments.

BECK: As Chris said the great photographer. What a shot.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: He's a very lucky guy. Here's something interesting we can play off, and I want to bring in Sister Mary Hughes. That the pope will be taken care of by some laywomen who are part of an order. They are going to help attend to his needs. It does bring up the issue of women in the church and what may happen going forward.

Sister Mary Hughes, you have obviously lived this on many different levels. Thank you for joining us. You are about with an Episcopal priest, Father Albert Cutie.

But let me start with you, Sister.

Going forward, what is your prayer and wish for the life of women in the church?

SISTER MARY HUGHES, CATHOLIC CHURCH: I think women in general in terms of the church and all areas of life are looking for places where they can use the gifts that God gave them.

I think going forward, we would hope that like in the early church when they often said who is it who has the gifts and will they put them at the service of the church, that there might be greater opportunities not only for women but for all laypersons to work together with our elected and appointed church leaders for the sake of the kingdom of God.

CUOMO: Sister, the question -- I'll give you a chance to think about it because I want to direct this to what's going on, on camera, but do you believe their position should be elevated? Should they be priests? How do you think they should serve as clergy?

But what we're watching the papal seal of Pope Benedict XVI. It is being removed. It is a practical and a ceremonial, symbolic significance. This is the removal of him as pope. This is another outward sign of that. We will not see that seal again. There will be a new one created for the new pope.

Back to you, Sister. What is the answer to that question? What do you believe about women serving in higher capacities as clergy?

HUGHES: You know that that's one of the areas that is really off limits to talk about at this moment in time, so if I can skirt around that question rather deliberately, I would say what I still look for is for women to be able to use their gifts in a variety of ways. As leaders of prayer, perhaps in the preaching, to participate in whatever ways they can to build the community of faith. BURNETT: Father, I want to bring you in, because your personal story, I want to ask you how you felt today with the moment. You're someone who was a priest, you fell in love with a woman, you still are part of the Catholic Church but you ended up making a different choice. How did you feel today watching this moment?

FATHER ALBERT CUTIE, EPISCOPAL CHURCH: Well, I had the privilege of meeting Pope Benedict on several occasions and I always was struck by his humility. A man that was very much an intellectual in the church for many, many years. One of the experts in Vatican II that's rarely talked about, but he was. So even though he's perceived as a much more conservative man now, he had been a very progressive theologian earlier on in his life.

When I see him resign, I think part of that innovation from the past came back. You know, he said, I'm going to do this differently. There are many stories out there about why he resigned. Eventually, we'll know the whole truth about that. But I would like to say that today I think Anglicans and Episcopalians all over the world are praying for the pope, asking God to protect and guide the church in the future. It's important for all of us as Christians as believers to know that spiritual leaders matter. This pope and his message mattered. It impacted some in a positive way and others have negative perceptions. But, in the end, he's a religious leader that makes an impact on the world, and the next pope will also make a great impact on the world.

CUOMO: Father, we're watching Pope Benedict now, still pope for a couple more hours.

He is coming out to wave. We believe he's going to take -- oh, this is tape from earlier. I thought he was going to come out and do his little pope tour. But this is from earlier on, him leaving the Vatican. This is earlier tape. This isn't happening right now.

Let me get back to you, Father. When you made your big move and all the attention that got it. I'm one of many journalists that covered it. It turns out that it is not that unusual. It is somewhat of a back door path for Anglicans to move into Catholicism. You did the opposite, obviously. Do you think that you will prove to be some type of pioneer, that moving forward with a new pope, with change in the Catholic Church, the ability to have love in your life with the opposite sex or whomever you choose, may be part of the priesthood for Catholics?

CUTIE: I think it's already happening. It's already happening. There are many married Roman Catholic priests, and there are many married Catholic priests in the Eastern Rites of the church. Now some of the brothers from our communion, from the Anglican Communion, are becoming Romans for different reasons and for different ideological reasons. And the pope is accepting them with their wives and their children. So obviously, there is a change going on. It is not the change that I think most priests want. I get letters every day and e- mails every day from priests who would like to be married men, who would like to be married right now and serve adds Roman Catholic priests. Some of them have hidden relationships. Some of them have hidden children, believe it or not, and they live in very painful situations. So I think I can speak for them because they cannot speak for themselves openly, that, yes, many, many Roman Catholic priests would like to see their lives fulfilled through marriage and family. And many Catholic Sisters and women would like to have the possibility of being ordained. Why not? You know, the women were the first witnesses of the resurrection. They were the first ones to preach Christ. So why not ordain women into the priesthood and as bishops?

CUOMO: That's an interesting point, Father.

Let me bring that back here.

Melinda, you were making a point about women priests. Obviously, Sister Mary Hughes has to avoid it for significant reasons, given the rules of church behavior and discipline. But what is the unknown factor for women that may be a mystery for people.

HENNEBERGER: The thing that a lot of people don't realize is that the thing they could do without changing any rule is they could actually appoint women as cardinals.

CUOMO: Even though they can't be priests or bishops.

HENNEBERGER: That's correct. Women cannot be priests, women cannot be bishops but women can be cardinals. And there's a lot of talk now about the next pope maybe being in a position to improve the perception that the Catholic Church is so closed off to women by taking advantage of this reality that, yes --

(CROSSTALK)

#: Why is that possible, by the way? Can anybody answer that question? Whether you follow the church movings or not, how can you not be a priest, not be a bishop but be a cardinal?

HENNEBERGER: It's a loophole.

(CROSSTALK)

BURNETT: We're all familiar with that term.

HENNEBERGER: You can actually be a layperson and be a cardinal.

(CROSSTALK)

HENNEBERGER: Yes. Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Today, customarily, there are cardinals that aren't bishops. The bulk of the cardinals, the majority of the cardinals and all the voting cardinals are bishops or archbishops. But there are -- Pope Benedict himself appointed, a couple of years ago, one of the consistories (ph), when he created new cardinals, named a few -- they were all retired priests who were theologians. And he honored them as cardinals. They were all over 80 at the time, so they won't be voting.

BURNETT: Which is the rule.

Let me ask you, though, because father Cutie was talking and you were very interested in this. You're both in the priesthood here, and you're not married. He has made a different choice. He says priests would want to marry.

BECK: There are some priests that would want to marry. Some people don't understand, there's two kinds of priests in the Roman Catholic Church, religious priests, members of orders, Franciscans, Jesuit. The vows make up our life. We live in community. Celibacy, if even it was changed, would not be optional for us. It would just be for dioceses and priests if it ever changed. They could choose -- because it's a discipline for them that they promise themselves to, but they don't take a vow of poverty. They could support a wife and kids.

BURNETT: OK.

BECK: So, it's a very different thing. If there was optional celibacy, you would still have a group of priests in the Roman Catholic Church that would be celibate by the nature of their vows.

CUOMO: Let's hold it there for a second.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: -- until we come back. Let's discuss what this means for the pope and the church going forward.

But first, we'll take a break here on the day of the final farewell.

(MUSIC)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: Looking at St. Peter's in Rome. The pope has left there. He went out on the balcony to cheers of the crowds, spoke from Castel Gandolfo. He was relatively emotional. We'll give you a sense of what he said a moment ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENEDICT (through translation): I am no longer the pope. But I'm still in the church. I'm just a pilgrim who is starting the last part of pilgrimage on this earth.

(CHEERING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: I loved that line, "last pilgrimage on this earth." But he is still the pope for a couple more hours.

(CROSSTALK)

HENNEBERGER: Yes, exactly.

(LAUGHTER)

Very eager because he's ready to retire.

BURNETT: Over the next couple of hours, I guess he has dinner, you were saying, he has a dinner and then --

(CROSSTALK)

BECK: And then retire early.

BURNETT: -- retire early, because he can.

BECK: Because he can. We were talking earlier about what it takes to be a cardinal. You mentioned that a woman could be named a cardinal.

Mr. Cuomo, if you were not married, you could be elected pope.

CUOMO: One more reason marriage brings you down.

(LAUGHTER)

BECK: But if you were, they would ordain you immediately, make you a bishop and then you would be --

BURNETT: So you're saying, if he were not married and a priest --

BECK: Any baptized --

(CROSSTALK)

BURNETT: -- he could still be a pope?

(CROSSTALK)

BECK: Any baptized Catholic --

(CROSSTALK)

BURNETT: You're going to make his head so big.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: Don't say it like that. Mocks the whole idea.

(LAUGHTER)

You're like, if this guy could be pope --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: -- why do you even have one?

That's why I shudder to think of it.

BURNETT: I didn't bring it up. He did.

CUOMO: Luckily, we're exempted from it. We think the church is in turmoil now.

Christiane -- we still have Christiane back there?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you do.

CUOMO: I just want to distract talking about me being pope for a second.

(LAUGHTER)

The mood back there in Rome, as it's starting to set in with people that they'll never see Pope Benedict again, not just a pope, but maybe ever, the mood, the thoughts? What are you feeling?

AMANPOUR: Yes, well, listen, the sun has set on St. Peter's, the sun has set on Castel Gandolfo and the sun has set on the papacy of Pope Benedict XVI. He said it 2.5 hours before his papacy officially ends, as you mentioned, he said, I am no longer pope. I am a simple pilgrim. He blessed everybody. It was amazing in the square there. They had signs up. You saw the balloons saying, Benedict, we are with you, all these signs. Thank you in Italian and all these cheers. It was probably the biggest outpouring affection for him as a person in his entire papacy.

IRWIN: I felt so pleased for him and grateful that so many showed up. He spoke from the heart once again. These are heartfelt talks yesterday and today. Really, they are. As the sun sets in Rome there's a very famous Italian hymn that is be with us, Lord, it is nearly evening. The Lord is with us in a new way. We don't exactly know with what leader but the Lord is always with us, as the pope told us yesterday. And that, I think, is really our consolation.

BURNETT: Now, do we know when you say he has -- as Christiane said, he has another 2, 2.5 hours of pope, who is he with right now? We don't know?

BECK: His private secretary. And probably the household staff that will take care of him. It didn't look like there were too many other people accompanying him.

BURNETT: No, it didn't. You saw some but didn't look like very many people.

CUOMO: But we do know -- there is real retirement, even though a pope has never gone through it before. I was told that he gets 2500 Euros a month. The Vatican said all of his needs will be taken care of. I don't know what he needs -- what he needs money for. I don't know that he'll be paying anything. But they're trying to put some normal expectations around this.

You know, this has to be recognized as something that was not unorthodox. This has to be recognized as not unorthodox, as something that's OK, so he's going to get a retirement stipend.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: He gets -- not a pension. And there's a reason for that.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: But he does get that. They'll take care of him. He'll have a place to live.

BECK: John Berman was saying this morning he was working on a fourth encyclical on faith, but it will probably never be published now because it's brought so much attention to it. So I wonder if we'll ever see --

(CROSSTALK)

BURNETT: Maybe --

(CROSSTALK)

BECK: Maybe.

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: We'll get some facts as they go forward. The big unknown is that we won't know is who follows Pope Benedict XVI. In just a couple of hours, that will be the --

(CROSSTALK)

BURNETT: That's the excitement that now begins --

(CROSSTALK)

BURNETT: -- as we have the good-bye, the excitement begins.

Well, our special coverage will continue in just a couple of moments with Suzanne Malveaux.

We'll take a break.

(MUSIC)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to "Around the World." I'm Suzanne Malveaux.

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Michael Holmes. We've been watching the coverage of the pope retiring.

(CROSSTALK)

MALVEAUX: It's fascinating. He's no longer the pope.

HOLMES: Exactly. We'll begin at the Vatican, too.

MALVEAUX: History being made today. In less than two hours, Pope Benedict's resignation will take effect. Earlier today, the pope flew from the Vatican to a summer residence outside Rome.

HOLMES: He made his final farewell to the crowds there, sent out one final tweet to his 1.5 million followers. It said this: "Thank you for you love and --